The Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Topic (ITS MAHVEL 3 BAYBEE)

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Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #200 on: April 26, 2010, 04:07:08 AM
Huh? I've been watching the scene since the beginning and that's not how I've seen it. Hell, combos are not the best use of baroque, it's just one of them.

Same here. That was Famitsu's quote, and while it's a gross over-generalization to some degree, it has merit. It's the same kinda thing that JWong "lolKaras" and some others have talked about for a while now. The balance of the game starts to lose its appeal when it just becomes so...sterile, as a result. 

I honestly prefer 3 buttons to 4 buttons (2k,2p). Having a low mid and high, even if just one set, I find much more engaging and strategic. Games with a WIDE variety of combat styles and or weapons seem to benefit from having 3 buttons, since it takes away the 'kick' and 'punch' division which some characters do not comply with very well.

To me though, MvC2's problem wasn't that it utilized the 4 button system, it was that Capcom didn't really transfer the characters from past games to that system very well.

Beyond things like cutting whole frames of animation, reducing the interface to 4 main attack buttons also meant cutting out valuable tools, such as actual "mid" attacks/specials, that were important to how some characters operated. Characters that used to be competent/very good in the previous games instantly fell to squalor by MvC2, as a result.

What I'm hoping for most is that, with this being a new game, it effectively translates to Capcom having to construct each character within the confines of whatever they choose as the input system. I personally wouldn't mind the 4+2 system again, as I thought it was done well, and it's all that you need in order for those who play with pads to be able to keep up. But I'd be open to either pure 6 buttons or maybe even a modified TvC-style of 3+2 assists, if it was done right.



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #201 on: April 26, 2010, 05:07:47 AM
I personally thought TvC is a step in the right direction w/ simple accessibility while having depth.  I do hope for a TvC2 so Capcom can keep on improving on what is accomplished there.

Which is also kinda why I hope MvC3 is in the direction of what TvC did, but that's about it, despite the fact I wasn't too engrossed w/ MvC2, but I did have fun w/ it even though I get my ass owned 7-ways when a random pro joins in the arcade lol.




Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #202 on: April 26, 2010, 07:01:15 AM
Okay, since I don't feel like pointing out the hypocrisy of the majority of your post, I'll simply stick to your response to me...

Of course it sounds dramatic, but the point is, the series may have a bunch of hardcore fans, but those are likely half to less of the current buying market. And appealing to the same market, basic business logic, they're going to eventually fade and disappear, then what?
This isn't a sponsored sport; it's a video game. It's software. It's gotta be purchased by the same mass public as...well, I'm not gonna get into that topic.
So, the game needs to be as didactic as it is hardcore, up-to-snuff, balanced, etc.

Listen Reggie, I fully agree with what Nintendo is doing, and I applaud them for it.  I love my Wii, probably a lot more than my "hardcore PS3 or 360" and Nintendo has been proving themselves right for a few years now with their appeal to the untapped market.  However, what your describing is a lot more like Comic Book fandom than it is the VG market.  Sadly, Comic Books aren't drawing in any new fans, and people like myself are really the only ones who reads them.  Comics will have to evolve in order to stay alive past my generation. 

LoL, as for Video Games not being a sponsored sport, Perhaps you are unaware of this.  Video games, to my surprise actually, have indeed become a sponsored sport.  Believe me, I can see it when I go online and play Halo every Tues. and Thurs.  We sometimes CLEARLY play with people a lot better than we are.  I can see it when I go to PAX and watch pro SFIV players just going toe to toe with one another.  And what you describe as "didactic" is the same as Flame's discussion as how he finds bad, glitch filled games to be enjoyable.  It's all within the eye of the beholder. 

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Because that's all I could get a lag-ridden Falco to do! You probably also saw me do some really "WTF?" stuff, too; I got rid of Brawl because the online component was constantly serving to be an unknown variable in trying to judge my performance or change in tactics, MUCH LESS trying to deal with a nerfed Dair. That's right, that spike's timing was nerfed. In Melee? If you ran into that thing, you were going down. Brawl? Pfft, nah, you MIGHT get hit with it at just the right time. Other than that, Falco's severely outgunned trying to deal with a Marth; Marth's sword gets ALL SORTS of priority over Falco's Standard, Strong, and Air attacks. Smashes are all you can do! That and projectile spam. Especially in a lag setting, whereas Marth can fairly well do whatever and get a wide, sweeping strike (see: all his Aerials, FFS). If I lost IRL, eh, I might be a little upset that I'm not doing better, but true, I don't spend a lot of time on any game. I'll gladly admit that, because I'm just in it for fun, not to mention I've got work, workout, dating, MBA, and tons of other things to do.

We ALL do WTF stuff in Brawl.  Hell, I have a 2GB Memory Card inside my Wii FILLED with all the WTF moments that have taken place in Brawl, with or without lag.  Also again, if you're judging Falco by one-on-one play, then according to the SSBB Tier List, he's currently #4, and that's behind abusively cheap Metaknight, Priority Boy Snake, and I'm not quite sure why Diddy Kong.  None of us like the lag factor, and it's a valid reason to get rid of the game.  And hey, life definitely tends to get in the way of gaming.  Lord knows I have so many games I still need to play, beat, or get back into.  But judging by this...

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That's why I had to pick Pikachu, and you know what? I was doing pretty good. See if Marth or Capitan can get near me when I DSmash!
But! It wasn't who I wanted to be.

...it really seems like your problem was that you simply wanted to play the game, have fun, AND win constantly.  If you were just in it for fun, why not continue to play as Falco, despite what happens or how good Marth is?  As you said, you dropped Brawl because of the lag, which is fine, but judging by this and other statements saying how you didn't have the time or effort or even the desire to learn how to fully utilize a character in a game, you picked a character you didn't want to pick because his Down Smash is insanely good.  All this does is remind me of the same people who pick Cable, Sentinel, and Misc. in MvC2 because they can be played cheaply to win.  But hey, that's neither here nor there at this point.

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Is it silly to nerf a game? In a competitive setting, obviously. Pro golfers and tennis players don't bloody use handicaps or get to use the lanes. But that's a perfect example of where I'm going with this; especially online, FG's don't offer at least the control fluidity to every player. I think some sort of simplification is in order, then, IF a player learns the inputs, they're rewarded with the competitive edge of extra timing or damage, whatever Capcom (or any dev) decides on.

LoL, so your argument is based on the fact that Video Games aren't a sponsored sport.  Well, besides the fact that I've proven that it is, what you've stated here is simply mindboggling.  If I am reading this correctly, you're saying that if a novice player utilizes some simple "easy mode" chain of commands, then does indeed learn how to input the correct combo commands in correctly, they should be rewarded by doing EXTRA DAMAGE OR GOING FASTER?  What sense does that make?  If you learn how to do the combo commands, then you can compete.  If you learn how to implement the strategies, then you can compete.  What you've stated is not only illogical, it's also unfair to the people who actual have spent time and effort learning how to play said game. 

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I still love playing video games, always will. But my business mind and empathy for the public is starting to clash with the fanbases. Can't count how many topics and times I've dreaded coming to the Gaming sub-forum to have to argue with Hypershell, HokutoNoBen, or whoever. I want to appreciate games, and make them accessible to more people so that there can be more shared passion for it. But that clashes with the people that are already playing.

Done conflicting. Done arguing. Not what I'm here to do. I'm here to wonder at distant galaxies with head-shaped planets, puzzle my brain with falling blocks, and be the funny, timeless hero when I can't myself. And if I get shell-shocked? Grab some pizza, and get back to making the party cuh-raz-uh.



And here we have much MUCH more over-drama.  What you consider "my business mind and empathy for the public clashing with the fanbases" is simply a difference of [tornado fang]ing opinion, one which you've completely overblown to the point of you having left RPM over.  You say you want to appreciate games, but yet you get so hyper emotional over a difference in opinion that you clearly take games JUST as seriously as the competitive, "hardcore" gamers that you seem to dislike, cause if you didn't, there wouldn't be all this dramatic false-heroic gamer bullshit you seem to have in your head.  But hey, don't let me dissuade you from your beliefs, if that's what keeps you going.  If you indeed stay off RPM, then by all means, enjoy gaming for whatever it means to you.

To me though, MvC2's problem wasn't that it utilized the 4 button system, it was that Capcom didn't really transfer the characters from past games to that system very well.

Really?  Cause I think MvC2's main problem was Cable, Sentinel, etc.! XD



Offline Solar

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Reply #203 on: April 26, 2010, 07:30:16 AM
So, can we leave the drama behind and go back to discussing how awesome a team of triple Deadpool would be or whatever?


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Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #204 on: April 26, 2010, 07:34:06 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8u7px_GzWQ[/youtube]

I like Lou's idea of making it not only where Deadpool constantly talks trash (which I think Spidey should do as well), but how during his Super, Deadpool should break the 4th wall and yell out GONNA TAKE YOU FOR A RIDE!



Offline Solar

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Reply #205 on: April 26, 2010, 07:41:32 AM
He also should mention something about being excluded from the previous games, and for turning the 4th wall to dust it'd be fun if he said some FG lingo from time to time or in his win quotes. Also, a shoryuken is must XD


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Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #206 on: April 26, 2010, 03:52:32 PM
Really?  Cause I think MvC2's main problem was Cable, Sentinel, etc.! XD

That's the thing about MAHVEL. Despite what some people may think, the tiers are actually quite spread out, such that if you remove the top 4-6 characters, you'll just have a NEW "God Tier" that takes it place.

Low tier tourneys' ban lists try to have a reason to their madness for that particular reason. Immediately after you ban the "Sinister 6", then it's time to take out the likes of War Machine, Iron Man, Cyclops, Strider+Doom and etc too, because they would immediately be next in line after Cable and dem are out.  8D


But what I'm talking about relates to how MAHVEL was constructed itself. The reason why most Capcom characters (barring Strider and CapCom) are not even able to really compete on the higher end, is because they have NOTHING to really combat the Marvel combatants. The Marvel combatants were constructed to fight each other. The Capcom side was immediately at a huge disadvantage, as a result, because they don't have the options that the Marvel side possesses. Cutting out the medium attacks/specials that characters used to possess didn't improve things, either. In past games throughout the Marvel series, Charlie, Ryu, Dhalsim and Zangief (MvC) were actually quite good. You take away their options and well, that's the reason why they're not really viable any more come MvC2. The cutting out of options hurt many characters, but none more so than on the Capcom side of the equation.

This, is why I'm hoping that MvC3 is a chance for a nice change. Even out the playing field a bit, since everything's back to "square one", and we're not re-using CPS2-era assets for the umpteenth time. TvC's rendition of the Capcom camp is a nice start, but gameplay-wise, they would ALL still get their asses waxed wholesale compared to the MvC2's Marvel camp. 8-way dash, unfly/fly, extremely low-air dashes = GG TvC Capcom dudes.  8D

So, in a nutshell, it'll be interesting to see how Niitsuma-tachi will be able to do this. I await the results...  :D 
 



Offline Ninja Lou

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Reply #207 on: April 26, 2010, 05:03:00 PM
Since it looks like Deadpool is already in the game I really just want one thing. Please make him talk non-stop Deadpool is known for never shutting up so it would be cool if they could find a way to pull this off. Also just to be even more annoying since Deadpool breaks the 4th wall all the time he should sing a line from MvsC2 ("gonna take you for a ride") as a taunt,  when he switches in/assist, or when he starts his super. Another idea for breaking the 4th wall would be him insulting the person using him and the person he is fighting.


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Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #208 on: April 26, 2010, 05:50:48 PM
I believe it was already alluded to that the likes of Spidey's "DO YOUR JOB!" was going to make a return. I can only hope that means that Mr. Wilson will get even more in the way of that type of attention.

He needs a Hyper Combo that would actually have him jumping off the screen so that he can attack the opponent's life bar directly. Just literally take a sword and hit it!  8D



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #209 on: April 26, 2010, 08:32:42 PM
I still say that NPH should voice Spidey in this game!



Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #210 on: April 26, 2010, 08:44:32 PM
I still say that NPH should voice Spidey in this game!

While I thought NPH was fine, it's Christopher Barnes' version of Petey that I keep hearing in my head, personally. Wouldn't mind it at all if they got him back.

SPEAKING OF WHICH! They really need to get Cal Dodd to play Wolverine again. I usually love Steve Blum in almost everything EXCEPT his Wolverine. It just can't compare to Dodd's, in my ears.  8D



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #211 on: April 26, 2010, 08:49:03 PM
While I thought NPH was fine, it's Christopher Barnes' version of Petey that I keep hearing in my head, personally. Wouldn't mind it at all if they got him back.

SPEAKING OF WHICH! They really need to get Cal Dodd to play Wolverine again. I usually love Steve Blum in almost everything EXCEPT his Wolverine. It just can't compare to Dodd's, in my ears.  8D

LoL, you 90's cartoon whore you!   8D



Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #212 on: April 26, 2010, 10:32:45 PM
LoL, you 90's cartoon whore you!   8D

As far as toons go, I have no problem being an unabashed, 80s & 90s-biased "decade-ist". 8D

Maybe the year 2010, and the new decade to come can stand to change the trend, because there really wasn't enough that tickled my fancy in that last decade. It didn't help that that few things that actually DID (re: TMNT2K3, Spectacular Spidey, JLU) either a) got canceled or b) turned to crap some where within its later years.

And let's not forget that the 2000s brought us the likes of LOONATICS UNLEASHED. For that, it MUST be punished! NEVER FORGET!  8D



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #213 on: April 27, 2010, 12:16:00 AM
As far as toons go, I have no problem being an unabashed, 80s & 90s-biased "decade-ist". 8D

Maybe the year 2010, and the new decade to come can stand to change the trend, because there really wasn't enough that tickled my fancy in that last decade. It didn't help that that few things that actually DID (re: TMNT2K3, Spectacular Spidey, JLU) either a) got canceled or b) turned to crap some where within its later years.

And let's not forget that the 2000s brought us the likes of LOONATICS UNLEASHED. For that, it MUST be punished! NEVER FORGET!  8D

All valid points.  Believe me, I think it's such a shame that Spectacular Spidey was canceled.  However, I really do think that was the best cartoon version of Spidey there was, in terms of writing and fantastic Spidey-quippage, so I'd love to see him voice MvC3 Spidey, or at the very least the up-incoming Ultimate Spidey cartoon. 

I do agree that Dodd's Wolvie was better than Blum's, but I don't think Blum's Wolvie is bad.  Hell, I wouldn't even mind them getting Scott McNeil to voice Wolvie again, just because he makes just about everything awesome!   8D



Offline Mirby

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Reply #214 on: April 27, 2010, 12:19:00 AM
That explains why Blum's voice was familiar...

OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
Just enjoy yourself, don't complain about everything


Offline Fxeni

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Reply #215 on: April 27, 2010, 09:38:28 AM
While I thought NPH was fine, it's Christopher Barnes' version of Petey that I keep hearing in my head, personally. Wouldn't mind it at all if they got him back.

SPEAKING OF WHICH! They really need to get Cal Dodd to play Wolverine again. I usually love Steve Blum in almost everything EXCEPT his Wolverine. It just can't compare to Dodd's, in my ears.  8D
This... very much so this.



Offline Flame

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Reply #216 on: April 27, 2010, 10:08:40 AM
LOONATICS UNLEASHED.
Gee thanks. Just when I had forgotten all about that.

90's toons ftw.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Turian

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Reply #217 on: April 27, 2010, 10:57:05 AM
::hums The X-men Theme:: I loved that toon! Wolverine quotes: "Outta my way, bub!" or "I go where I wanna go!" Best Wolverine evar!



Offline Acrosurge

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Reply #218 on: April 27, 2010, 03:31:07 PM
All valid points.  Believe me, I think it's such a shame that Spectacular Spidey was canceled.  However, I really do think that was the best cartoon version of Spidey there was, in terms of writing and fantastic Spidey-quippage, so I'd love to see him voice MvC3 Spidey, or at the very least the up-incoming Ultimate Spidey cartoon.
Win.  Josh Keaton did an amazing job with Peter Parker in that show.  He's my pick for MvC3 Spidey.  I love me some 90s Spidey, but when you take a step back, the writing was horribly uneven, much like the animation.  And the inner monologues; argh, the inner monologues won't stop!



Enjoy life,
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Offline Fxeni

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Reply #219 on: April 27, 2010, 04:17:50 PM
I love me some 90s Spidey, but when you take a step back, the writing was horribly uneven, much like the animation.  And the inner monologues; argh, the inner monologues won't stop!
Can't really blame him for the voicework though, he did a good job with what he was given. Yeah, the inner monologues were bad, but the reason there was so many was that they were following the writing style comics, which were in the *shudder* clone saga at that time. So many inner monologues during that time.



Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #220 on: April 27, 2010, 06:46:21 PM
Can't really blame him for the voicework though, he did a good job with what he was given. Yeah, the inner monologues were bad, but the reason there was so many was that they were following the writing style comics, which were in the *shudder* clone saga at that time. So many inner monologues during that time.

It wasn't just the Clone Saga, though. Petey/Spidey, by nature, was a character that was prone to monologues throughout his career. This includes even the likes of spin-offs such as "Untold Tales of Spider-Man", which pretty much everybody agreed was good (and a nice escape from the silliness of what was going on in the mainstream Spidey comics, no less!).  8D

On that note, while I usually get on the Clone Saga band-wagon for hateration, there's one bit of an ironic point that I just can't ignore.

For better or worse, the Clone Saga's ORIGINAL ending would have served for Petey (the clone) to lose his powers, retire to some place in Montana and live happily ever after with MJ and the Spidey-baby. Ben, meanwhile, would have served as a means to take Spiderman back to a character who was a bachelor, and endure everything that comes from single-life and super hero, as well as the tragedy of a guy who lost out a good few decades' worth of the life he was meant to have. Apparently, THAT wasn't good enough, as the combined bitching of the fanbase wanted and brought PETER back.

So, in the end, we lose a perfectly good guy like Ben, just for Peter to have, among other things, a "failed pregnancy", MJ and Petey to have a marriage on the rocks, Peter to get the revelation that Gwen was [tornado fang]ing NORMAN OSBORN ON THE DL (and had two freaky kids as a result), reveal his secret identity to the world and then make a [tornado fang]ing DEAL WITH THE DEVIL HIMSELF....all for Peter to go back to being a single-guy who lives with Aunt May, all over again.

Was the trip really necessary, if all that was going to happen is some thing akin to the result that yielded from the Clone Saga's original ending, any way? This is why I really loathe Marvel comics right now. It's fundamentally as bad as what they did with Cyclops back in the day. They may have retconned it several times, but that's just to try and make Scottie's act of abandoning his WIFE AND CHILD to pursue his dead girlfriend look better! 8D



Offline Fxeni

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Reply #221 on: April 27, 2010, 09:34:45 PM
It wasn't just the Clone Saga, though. Petey/Spidey, by nature, was a character that was prone to monologues throughout his career. This includes even the likes of spin-offs such as "Untold Tales of Spider-Man", which pretty much everybody agreed was good (and a nice escape from the silliness of what was going on in the mainstream Spidey comics, no less!).  8D
Oh, I'm quite aware of that... it just got especially bad there, not that I really mind. It's the way that saga was handled... now that I have a problem with 8D

It wasn't just the Clone Saga, though. Petey/Spidey, by nature, was a character that was prone to monologues throughout his career. This includes even the likes of spin-offs such as "Untold Tales of Spider-Man", which pretty much everybody agreed was good (and a nice escape from the silliness of what was going on in the mainstream Spidey comics, no less!).  8D

On that note, while I usually get on the Clone Saga band-wagon for hateration, there's one bit of an ironic point that I just can't ignore.

For better or worse, the Clone Saga's ORIGINAL ending would have served for Petey (the clone) to lose his powers, retire to some place in Montana and live happily ever after with MJ and the Spidey-baby. Ben, meanwhile, would have served as a means to take Spiderman back to a character who was a bachelor, and endure everything that comes from single-life and super hero, as well as the tragedy of a guy who lost out a good few decades' worth of the life he was meant to have. Apparently, THAT wasn't good enough, as the combined bitching of the fanbase wanted and brought PETER back.

So, in the end, we lose a perfectly good guy like Ben, just for Peter to have, among other things, a "failed pregnancy", MJ and Petey to have a marriage on the rocks, Peter to get the revelation that Gwen was [tornado fang]ing NORMAN OSBORN ON THE DL (and had two freaky kids as a result), reveal his secret identity to the world and then make a [tornado fang]ing DEAL WITH THE DEVIL HIMSELF....all for Peter to go back to being a single-guy who lives with Aunt May, all over again.

Was the trip really necessary, if all that was going to happen is some thing akin to the result that yielded from the Clone Saga's original ending, any way? This is why I really loathe Marvel comics right now. It's fundamentally as bad as what they did with Cyclops back in the day. They may have retconned it several times, but that's just to try and make Scottie's act of abandoning his WIFE AND CHILD to pursue his dead girlfriend look better! 8D
It would have been better if the story didn't flipflop around. Since the story changed hands so many times though, it was a gigantic mess. Y'know, I think more people would have been fine with Ben being Spidey if Peter still remained the original. Instead, they decided to kill off a decent character with good potential (along with many others actually, in both a literal and figurative sense) and then bring back the idea way down the line in the stupidest manner possible.

Also, it's worth noting that they sort of make fun of the whole clone saga thing at the end of the 90s show, which is great.



Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #222 on: April 28, 2010, 12:04:50 AM
Also, it's worth noting that they sort of make fun of the whole clone saga thing at the end of the 90s show, which is great.

Spidey: ...This is like a BAD COMIC BOOK PLOT!
  8D

Even as the 90s toon went out with more of a nonsensical whimper, it was at least able to poke fun at itself, and the currently running comic.

I swear, 90s Spidey and Xmen were BOTH awesome, until they just didn't let it go with the time travel, alternate dimensions and all that kind of crap. Dunno why the show's writers thought that stuff would be the kind of things that fans would like, and such. We all loved the toons because of them doing things verbatim or close enough to what the comics did. And frankly the further they went from that, the worse it got.



Offline Fxeni

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Reply #223 on: April 28, 2010, 12:45:56 AM

Spidey: ...This is like a BAD COMIC BOOK PLOT!
  8D
Fixed that for you 8D

Even as the 90s toon went out with more of a nonsensical whimper, it was at least able to poke fun at itself, and the currently running comic.

I swear, 90s Spidey and Xmen were BOTH awesome, until they just didn't let it go with the time travel, alternate dimensions and all that kind of crap. Dunno why the show's writers thought that stuff would be the kind of things that fans would like, and such. We all loved the toons because of them doing things verbatim or close enough to what the comics did. And frankly the further they went from that, the worse it got.
Yeah, some of those plots had potential, but they overdid it a bit.

Back on topic, I wonder what they'll make the final boss this time.



Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #224 on: April 28, 2010, 12:57:55 AM
Well, I believe it was stated that the Boss (likely a Marvel pick), would be one that would delight longtime fans.

Again, my thoughts drift to some one like Dark Phoenix. There's not too many plot arcs remembered as fondly as the Phoenix Saga, and the Phoenix Force is still relevant even in today's era. Besides, if the likes of Dormmamu (who could be boss material, himself) is a "mere playable", it needs to be some one who could be a more believable threat to him and "both worlds~!!!!!". I'd like to think a personality who could snuff out an entire galaxy, and whose powers deny lifeforce to future generations, would definitely be such.  XD

Besides, such a thing doesn't necessarily mean that Jean/Phoenix herself couldn't be playable. It'd be just another "Inner Struggle!" moment, for her!  8D