MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)

[Satoryu]

*ahem*

More accurately, I don't want to have to waste money on a wireless adapter in addition to the actual game, when a system like the wii can connect to the internet without having to buy extra stuff. Its incorporated INTO the console. All I have do do is buy points cards.

Well that's way different. The way you originally said it, it implied that you thought you needed a Gold account in order to buy the games.

You could just use an ethernet cable to connect your Xbox directly to your router.

[Turian]

On the page for this game it says that it's going to be available for Xbox Live Arcade. Truth is, not one site out there says ARCADE, they all just say Xbox Live. Just pointing that out.

[Ramzal]

*Looks at trailer*

Um. Well. If I ever got drugged, dragged and violated and felt really weird this morning, I'm pretty sure it'd feel the same as how I do after watching the trailer. I'm highly confused, and not sure what happened. And I'm not sure if I want a claymation Megaman game. Like I said, not sure.

Edit: I'm glad that Capcom is doing what the video game industry USED to do, which is the same reason for success for the movie, cartoon, and applicant industry. And no, it's not "Going old school" or "Appealing to a certain group." They're taking a chance. Rather than going with "I'm sure people will love this", I'm pretty sure from Megaman 9, 10 to now, the train of thought is "I have no idea if this is going to work, but lets give it a shot."

[Satoryu]

On the page for this game it says that it's going to be available for Xbox Live Arcade. Truth is, not one site out there says ARCADE, they all just say Xbox Live. Just pointing that out.

Well all those sites are technically wrong. Xbox Live is the online service in general. Xbox Live Arcade is the section of the Xbox Live Marketplace where you can buy games. Games are referred to as Xbox Live Arcade titles.

[Zan]

The problem is, the US and JP continuities are different enough that it's impossible to talk about them as being the same thing without lots of conflict.

That's highly irrelevant. What's commonly referred to as the US continuity already has a million conflicts with itself and could hardly be called a continuity. Everybody's a cyborg in that one.

Furthermore, strictly speaking, the US and the rest of the world actually has the same continuity as Japan. Any and all differences are those that should never have been made and have already been rectified.

[The Great Gonzo]

That's highly irrelevant. What's commonly referred to as the US continuity already has a million conflicts with itself and could hardly be called a continuity. Everybody's a cyborg in that one.

I'll just quote Gauntlet on this:

If there are inconsistancies, that is simply the nature of the beast and does not refute the matter. There are a great many continuities that are thought out poorly; it is completely irrelevant.

Furthermore, strictly speaking, the US and the rest of the world actually has the same continuity as Japan. Any and all differences are those that should never have been made and have already been rectified.

So, no accounting for this?

Bear in mind that every box and manual is made by Capcom, so they are all canon. However, the number of differences and their impact on Megaman products throughout English-speaking media give a testament to the power of these localizations.

[Zan]

I'll just quote Gauntlet on this:

Just as much as you cannot say there is no US continuity because of inconsistencies with itself, neither can you say a US continuity actually exists because of inconsistencies between translated and the untranslated work. Translated and untranslated work should by definition be the same. Anything else is either new material, or in error.

So, no accounting for this?

If all is Capcom and therefore canon, then Japan too should follow what is written in US games and manuals, as has effectively happened with X1's manual. Though, inconsistencies being the nature of the beast, in all cases of conflict; we take one source as true over another based on their level of authority.

However, at nearly all times it is Capcom of Japan's productions that hold the highest authority. And with that in mind, the elements introduced by Capcom of America are little different from those we see in Bandai's products; another story.

[Flame]

Zan beat me to it and explained it with much less words.

[The Great Gonzo]

However, at nearly all times it is Capcom of Japan's productions that hold the highest authority.

Except most of us can't friggin' read it, and have to rely on fan translations which may or may not be influenced by the translator.

Zan beat me to it and explained it with much less words.

And completely disregarded a whole continuity because of "errors". Sorry, pal, but whatever CoA says is just as valid as what CoJ says; we simply have to keep the two continuities separate and note the differences. If you want to follow one, that's fine, but don't claim that the other is invalid for arbitrary reasons.

[Zan]

And completely disregarded... for arbitrary reasons.

And that's exactly the opposite of what I said. I'm not disregarding anything, I'm saying any and all of this material produced by official localizers is part of this single continuity that's the same for all regions. This continuity also includes the likes of MegaMission and Challenger from the Future, with the aforementioned localization materials being treated with the same level of validity; possible to include unless in contradiction. As I said, if not additive it's "Another Story"; "Gaiden", what-ifs, and so on. And if all that fails, using the word "error" suffices.

Except most of us can't friggin' read it, and have to rely on fan translations which may or may not be influenced by the translator.

So? It's the same for Japan and all the materials produced solely in the US.

[The Great Gonzo]

And that's exactly the opposite of what I said. I'm not disregarding anything, I'm saying any and all of this material produced by official localizers is part of this single continuity that's the same for all regions.

So how do you account for lingering US elements like Mega knowing that he's related to Proto? After all, CoA hasn't officially retconned that.

And you're still disregarding the fact that the US and JP continuities are separate.

So? It's the same for Japan and all the materials produced solely in the US.

I was going by your logic that the JP continuity is the one with the highest authority. Japanese people can read their own material, which is the "authoritative" version. No problem there. Japanese interpretation of our own "non-authoritative" material is another story, I think.

[Zan]

So how do you account for lingering US elements like Mega knowing that he's related to Proto? After all, CoA hasn't officially retconned that.

Considering I only know of one source that says Rock knows about ProtoMan, that is a case of creative liberty with the game script. It cannot be considered new material. A translation should be a translation, it should not be alter the meaning of the script. If it is not a proper translation of the Japanese; it is an error. Different from actually writing a new story in a separate medium.

If that doesn't satisfy you; it is a 'what if' event that only occurs in an optional path of MegaMan7, ProtoMan is not guaranteed to have revealed to Rock that he is his brother.

And you're still disregarding the fact that the US and JP continuities are separate.

How is it separate when any and all material produced in Japan is translated (read: made part of said US continuity) by Capcom of America's whim of financial gain? Just because you don't have access or aren't able to read material does not mean it does not exist. You'd only be making the case for the likes of a German continuity also existing.

[The Great Gonzo]

It cannot be considered new material.

Except it is, since it was added, liberty or no.

How is it separate when any and all material produced in Japan is translated (read: made part of said US continuity) by Capcom of America's whim of financial gain?

Because of changes made that don't overlap with the JP continuity.

If that doesn't satisfy you; it is a 'what if' event that only occurs in an optional path of MegaMan7, ProtoMan is not guaranteed to have revealed to Rock that he is his brother.

It still retroactively implies that the ending of MM3 wasn't just for the benefit of the player. (At least, Megaman doesn't seem to react to MM7's "reveal" in the slightest)

Just because you don't have access or aren't able to read material does not mean it does not exist. You'd only be making the case for the likes of a German continuity also existing.

I was told that there's no difference between US and EU continuities. (Now, I dunno about there being, say, a German continuity that had enough differences from the others--which is to say, any--but I wouldn't try to discount it because I can't read. I simply don't know if it's true, so I'm not going to make any claims until then.)

[Rock Bomb]

Or this:

Celebrity Death Match came to mind.

[Zan]

Except it is, since it was added, liberty or no.

We call that a mistranslation, or a contradiction that's automatically overwritten by the additional authority held by the original; Blues does ask to find out who the more powerful creation is. He simply does so without referring to their mutual father.

Likewise, before you bring it up; MegaMan7's ending has little difference in meaning; robots still aren't supposed to hurt humans for reasons not stated as Asimov's, and Rock still failed to pull the trigger. No matter his response to Wily's mindgame, he is not more than a robot.

(At least, Megaman doesn't seem to react to MM7's "reveal" in the slightest)

The game isn't coded by the programmers to give Rock a text bubble to actually respond. In fact, being a SNES title, plot is kept to its bare minimum; Rock doesn't say much of anything unless he really has to. You're trying to give false value to the absence of text without considering how the game was made.

It still retroactively implies that the ending of MM3 wasn't just for the benefit of the player.

It implies the localizer construed the materials this way because he did not have access to the facts.

I was told that there's no difference between US and EU continuities.

There is only one continuity, plain and simple. They're all translations from the same source. Translations being made solely by financial whims. If Capcom of the region can make money translating that one book that will contradict all the crap they made up over the years, they will translate it.

Again; just because you can't read it doesn't mean it does not exist. All the Japanese exclusive information is part of your US continuity.

[Turian]

Well all those sites are technically wrong. Xbox Live is the online service in general. Xbox Live Arcade is the section of the Xbox Live Marketplace where you can buy games. Games are referred to as Xbox Live Arcade titles.

So Capcom's own website is wrong? Live is a service that has a separate Arcade section to buy "arcade games",but you can also buy full games for Xbox on the live service.

TL;DR

This may be a full game and not an Arcade title. They are different things.

Case in point:
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/games/default.htm

[The Great Gonzo]

Again; just because you can't read it doesn't mean it does not exist. All the Japanese exclusive information is part of your US continuity.

I hate to sound rude, but...What part of "not everything can overlap without conflict" did you not get? If no changes were made, then I could agree that they're both the same continuity. But that's not the case.


Forget that comment I made that started this mess. Instead, maybe MMUni will be more in line with the attitudes held by non-Japanese gamers about the Megaman series.

[Flame]

It is not a continuity because it was not a specifically planned derivative version. there isnt even any sensical REASON. It was CoA's localizers deciding to take creative liberty with the game's story, and as they are the localizers, they have the rights to do what they want as long as its in english. CoA probably didnt even bother to check the original to see if it was consistent. after all, thats what the localization team is for! And if nobody is complaining, then all is well.

or, they just dont give a rats ass if the localization is accurate to the original as long as its in english.


Lets use an example:

I work for a publisher, and it is my job to translate a book into another language for another country. But instead of simply translating like I should, I go and alter large portions of the work to suit my own tastes and what I think would "work better" or "sell better". I have the authority to do it, because IM the one in charge of localizing it, but Its not a derivative work, because I simply modified the original, and because my job was to translate, not re-write. I said I would translate it. Not change it. Therefore, it is a bad translation. maybe not mis-translation, because it was intentional on my part, but a bad translation, because in addition to translating, I changed the original work. If the publisher doesnt give a crap, that doesnt automatically make it an alternate version. It just means they didnt care and didnt check to see the original material, as long as I translated it for the public. The public doesnt know any better, and they dont have access to the original work, and even then cant read it, so they take what they get, and they like it. So nothing happens. I get to badly translate another day.

Posted on: July 17, 2010, 09:33:42 PM

Case in point:
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/games/default.htm

Correct me if im wrong, but Xbox live marketplace IS the online game download service thing.

[Turian]

::sighs::

Arcade is the service for small ARCADE GAMES.

Games on demand is the service for FULL DOWNLOADABLE 360 GAMES.

Jesus christ people, read much? I linked to the goddamn page and all.

[The Great Gonzo]

It is not a continuity because it was not a specifically planned derivative version.

So? It's still easier to refer to it as a separate continuity. It's got lots of internal blunders, yes, but it's distinct enough from the original to warrant calling it so.

[example]

A bad translation would be PS1 Final Fantasy Tactics, with its lines that make no sense whatsoever. What you're referring to is a kind of adaptation decay.

[Hypershell]

Such an "adaptation decay" does not constitute a new continuity because its scope of impact is limited.  While it can be interpreted as having a wide impact if it occurs in a long saga such as MegaMan, it is not practiced as having a wide impact, as each entry to the series will be localized independent of previous localizations.  Therefore, continuity exists only in the original work, barring consistent and intentional changes (The name MegaMan as opposed to Rockman).

When Keiji Inafune is asked a question by a U.S. MegaMan fan, which continuity is he referring to?  If, by nature of Inafune being CoJ, his comments reflect only CoJ continuity, what is the point of allowing fans of other regions to ask him anything?  By your logic, his writings are subject to CoA alterations and thus hold no direct value outside of Japan.

Well, no one ever said it was well-written. >.>

It's barely "written" at all.  There are no "U.S. continuity writers".  There are the story writers, in Japan, and there's the localization teams elsewhere, who occasionally take a creative liberty.  To them it's inconsequential; probably they even believe they're adding a subtle improvement (brotherly robots touching the audience's hearts; reiterating the franchise name more often to drive home the roots of the game).  But they don't do that with respect to continuity across the entire saga.  Tweaking the same story in localization, which is what MegaMan is, is not the same thing as a total rewrite featuring a new scenario (such as the case with "Raymond Burr" Godzilla, Power Rangers, etc.).  The only instance in which I'd accept "U.S. continuity" is when the change is both intentional and consistent, such as name changes, and whatever side-effects they so induce, such as the case in DASH/Legends 2 with the origin of Volnutt's name.  Localization is a derivative work, but not a derivative continuity.  The original will always take precedence in continuity.

Let's suppose Capcom does the unthinkable and creates a Classic/X time-traveling game.  Let's suppose in such a title that X witnesses a few Wily defeats.  Lets's suppose one of these is RM7.  The fact that in MM7 Rock threatened Wily, does not mean that in the localized version of such a game, that MegaMan X will deem Rock a Maverick, while Rockman X has no reason whatsoever to deem Rock an Irregular in Japan.

Such a phenomenon in localization is hardly exclusive to video games.  Looking at some of my favorite monster movies, an alternate continuity would be if, in bringing a story over, one is intentionally writing a whole new scenario.  Such as Raymond Burr's character in Godzilla: King Of The Monsters and Godzilla 1985.  However, a localization tweak, such as shortening the dialogue of speculating on Orga's spacecraft in Godzilla 2000, does not constitute a continuity change.  It's the same story; the localization team (in this case Sony) simply believed that a small tweak would streamline the film and make it more appealing.  Future projects will not take this into account.

Except most of us can't friggin' read it, and have to rely on fan translations which may or may not be influenced by the translator.

That is a completely moot statement.  The possibility of "influence by the translator" holds true of all translations both official and unofficial.  Capcom employees are still human beings and as such may influence translations personally.  The frequent use of "Mega Man" in X2 and X3 is one such testament; it ties to MM7's ending as trying to push X as being Rock, a notion which has since been abandoned by Capcom of America and refuted by Capcom of Japan.

I was told that there's no difference between US and EU continuities.

Using your logic, untrue.  If you accept the presupposition that there are different Japan and US continuities, then there are most certainly different US and EU continuities.





Not a phenomenon exclusive to MegaMan, or for that matter even to political correctness.  The same name kerfunkery goes on between US and EU Fire Emblem games.  Obviously it's less common for two regions of the same language to deviate, but it's not unheard of.  It is entirely possible for two regional corporations working with the same language dialogue to have different ideas of how best to proceed.

Your logic therefore mandates a separate continuity for every region, dependent on the structure of the corporation distributing the game, regardless of language.

[Flame]

I remember Thanatos Zero once mentioning a German Megaman booklet or something which was WAY different from the US and Japanese ones. (in other words, it was a translation on par with something CoA would do, but CoG

[Protoman Blues]

Such as Raymond Burr's character in Godzilla: King Of The Monsters and Godzilla 1985.  

Raymond Burr's character serves no purpose in either movie.

[Hypershell]

He provides a unique perspective if nothing else, and in 1985, aptly states in words what the entire Heisei and the better half of Millennium series continually dance around: Godzilla is a force of nature; you do not defeat him, you learn to coexist with him.

1985 also changes the circumstances of the Soviet missile launch.  In the 1984 "Gojira", the launch is accidental.

[Protoman Blues]

He provides a unique perspective if nothing else, and in 1985, aptly states in words what the entire Heisei and the better half of Millennium series continually dance around: Godzilla is a force of nature; you do not defeat him, you learn to coexist with him.

1985 also changes the circumstances of the Soviet missile launch.  In the 1984 "Gojira", the launch is accidental.

That's all his character is there for, to tell us a perspective that pretty much ALL fans of Godzilla already know, therefore making his character useless.

Haha, and I know about the changes.  Trust me, the only thing I know more of than Godzilla is Thundercats.