Topic: Sonic Colors (Wii, DS)

[Flame]

utterly insane.

Its RPM.
Insanity is obvious.

[Mirby]

I kinda wonder if you read my replies at all before saying anything. How you agreed with me and said I was wrong at the same time brings me to believe you're utterly insane.

BWAHAHAHAHA! It's easier when one's insane!

And I did read them; I was quoting your post to bring it to Flame's attention, even if he'd already seen it, and trying to build off of what you said towards Flame.

[Alice in Entropy]

The game sounds fun and promising enough to me, but then I'm a colours whore.

I mean, how bad can it be? Said he, as he was cast into the pit of pessimistic snarling.

[Bueno Excelente]

BWAHAHAHAHA! It's easier when one's insane!

And I did read them; I was quoting your post to bring it to Flame's attention, even if he'd already seen it, and trying to build off of what you said towards Flame.

So you quoted me...
...to reply to another person.

Alright. Off to Arkham with you.

[Flame]

So you quoted me...
...to reply to another person.

Alright. Off to Arkham with you.

Arkham? but EVERYONE busts out of there.

[Bueno Excelente]

Arkham? but EVERYONE busts out of there.

Only supercriminals. Calendar Man's still there.

[Turian]

A game where momentum is completely inexistant is NOT fine from a technical standpoint. The controls do not have a steep learning curve, the whole level design is [tornado fang]'d up. Seriously, you can look at a speed-based game where the entire beginning of a level is based on a big sequence of twitch-based shoulder button presses or instant death, and say it's got a good level design? Pull your head out of your ass.

::cracks knuckles:: Someone's about to learn why I'm a Red Lantern. You asked for it, I was trying to be civil, but you had to go and start the name calling you unoriginal prick. The game play in Sonic Unleashed is fine, I'm playing it now, maybe you should get you thumbs out of your ass and use them to play with instead of your feet.  Like I said before, stop holding down boost when you start a level and you can react you idiot. Don't be so thick headed, your wrong here and nothing will ever change that. GET OVER IT.

[Flame]

How bout you both chill out before someone gets hurt?

[Bueno Excelente]

::cracks knuckles:: Someone's about to learn why I'm a Red Lantern. You asked for it, I was trying to be civil, but you had to go and start the name calling you unoriginal prick. The game play in Sonic Unleashed is fine, I'm playing it now, maybe you should get you thumbs out of your ass and use them to play with instead of your feet.  Like I said before, stop holding down boost when you start a level and you can react you idiot. Don't be so thick headed, your wrong here and nothing will ever change that. GET OVER IT.

Ooooh, did I hit a nerve? It's a game where you have unseen hazards and pitfalls. You're forced to guess instead of actually respond to the game, and it mixes very flawed turning controls with a twitch-based side-dashing that comes out of nowhere everytime it pops up. Good game, it is not. Stages in a game are supposed to be logical, and have a progression. This game just has [parasitic bomb] piled on top of more [parasitic bomb], and called "a level". Hell, the daytime stages 2 and 3 for each area look like they've been done by some kid in 5 minutes in a bad level designer. They serve no purpose other than to annoy a player with a trial-and-error run through tough crap.

Face it, the game's [parasitic bomb].

How bout you both chill out before someone gets hurt?

We are. I'm just posting reasons why the levels are crap, and people keep replying with to me with "lern 2 ply".

[Flame]

Face it, the game's [parasitic bomb].

That IS a bit too extreme right there.

It might be flawed, but it is definitely not [parasitic bomb].

[Turian]

I'm calmer now. But your still wrong. I don't need to say it again but I will, stop holding X and playing like a tool.

[Protoman Blues]

I'm calmer now. But your still wrong. I don't need to say it again but I will, stop holding X and playing like a tool.

No offense, but when did he ever say he constantly pressed the boost button.  You're blindly making assumptions.

[Turian]

No offense, but when did he ever say he constantly pressed the boost button.  You're blindly making assumptions.

Okay lets be fair here. I think you are playing it wrong because you say you don't have enough time to react. I say if you hold off a bit on the speed and don't mash X you WILL have time to react because the controls have a learning curve. So I assume you are mashing boost too much and need to learn to play better. If I'm wrong and you have tried slowing down, then tell me, so I can make fun of you for having the reflexes of a snail. 

[Protoman Blues]

Okay lets be fair here. I think you are playing it wrong because you say you don't have enough time to react. I say if you hold off a bit on the speed and don't mash X you WILL have time to react because the controls have a learning curve. So I assume you are mashing boost too much and need to learn to play better. If I'm wrong and you have tried slowing down, then tell me, so I can make fun of you for having the reflexes of a snail. 

Wait, who are you talking too, him or me?  I've never complained about it.  Also, you're clearly not paying attention to his argument.

[Flame]

Okay lets be fair here. I think you are playing it wrong because you say you don't have enough time to react. I say if you hold off a bit on the speed and don't mash X you WILL have time to react because the controls have a learning curve. So I assume you are mashing boost too much and need to learn to play better. If I'm wrong and you have tried slowing down, then tell me, so I can make fun of you for having the reflexes of a snail.

Hey hey, no need to get snippy, Milage may vary. some people play one way, some others. all because I may be able to anticipate a particular turn or obstacle, doesnt mean person B can.

It boils down to how you expected to play the game, and how easily you took to it.

[Bueno Excelente]

Okay lets be fair here. I think you are playing it wrong because you say you don't have enough time to react. I say if you hold off a bit on the speed and don't mash X you WILL have time to react because the controls have a learning curve. So I assume you are mashing boost too much and need to learn to play better. If I'm wrong and you have tried slowing down, then tell me, so I can make fun of you for having the reflexes of a snail. 

The very principle of the game is to speed up. It doesn't matter at which speed you're at, levels such as the beginning of the tropical stage with the huge water bridge that could only be gotten through by using the LB/RB buttons, and running through certain lines, make it flawed by nature. This game has on-rail levels, when its gameplay isn't on-rails. I don't care how fast you're going. Falling in a bottomless pit automatically 3 seconds after a level begins isn't good level design, no matter how much you're enjoying the game. Many people may derive enjoyment from the game, buy it doesn't mean that the level design is good. Heck, I like quite alot of shitty games, but I can recognize crap when I see it. And this game has some of the very worst levels I've ever seen.

[Turian]

Wait, who are you talking too, him or me?  I've never complained about it.  Also, you're clearly not paying attention to his argument.

I was talking to Flash, PB. I was just referring to your post because you made a good point. And I'm getting all up in his ass because he was rude to me. Not because of his points. Having an opinion is one thing, but telling someone to get their head out of their ass is either offensive, or at least strongly worded enough where he can get as good as he gives. Either way, i'm good.

[nobody]

I can't take the angry guy seriously.

Especially when he posts stuff like "::cracks knuckles::"

[Tickle Buffalo]

::cracks knuckles:: Someone's about to learn why I'm a Red Lantern. You asked for it, I was trying to be civil, but you had to go and start the name calling you unoriginal prick. The game play in Sonic Unleashed is fine, I'm playing it now, maybe you should get you thumbs out of your ass and use them to play with instead of your feet.  Like I said before, stop holding down boost when you start a level and you can react you idiot. Don't be so thick headed, your wrong here and nothing will ever change that. GET OVER IT.

are you twelve?

[Alice in Entropy]

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I quite liked Unleashed, but Flash has very valid points. It was far, far from being perfect. It is a very "on-rails" sort of game, and that's not something I'm very fond of.

I would type up a big post about this, but I idiotically assumed you were talking about Rush, so I instead made a big post about that instead.

There are plenty of times when I felt the stage layout was indeed flawed and perhaps broken, and the boost button gimmick has many a time led me flying into an enemy, a wall/pit of spikes or even instant death. I understand the train of logic behind including it - "Sonic is fast, let's make him constantly fast" - but Sonic games are, at their core, a platforming series. When you give the player instant top speed at the press of a button, wherever and whenever you want it, you're opening up a whole new realm of problems: you can retain the platforming sections to appeal to older fans or people who are more interested in a run-jump-run-jump affair, or you can choose to appeal to younger gamers (I am generalising here, but I was quite young when I played this game, so please bear with me) who want speed and excitement to hold their attention. If you choose the former path, you risk alienating people who will feel it's too slow or "boring" without break-neck speed, and if you choose the latter path, you have to heavily edit or omit things like enemies, spikes and pits placed in ways that are almost specifically designed to punish the player for going too fast. As far as I'm concerned, that's almost like letting a child run free in a toy shop to choose what they want, but scolding them if they want to buy too much. Though maybe a better analogy would be that it's like getting a great new car that's billed as being the fastest one on the market and with unrivalled acceleration, but it breaks down if you try to actually reach this top speed regularly.

Anyway, the point is, Rush had some good ideas, but it also had plenty of flaws that seemed to result because of these ideas. It's a double-edged sword, really. You can't please everyone, and perhaps in appealing to a wider audience with the simple pick-up-and-play-boost-at-any-time approach, it alienated another camp of fans who don't like this playing method. The best Sega could hope for is to cut their losses and just take the cynical root of whatever makes the biggest buck the fastest.

Still, the main gist of the matter is that Flash is entitled to his opinion just as much as anyone else. Just because his may be stronger and more caustic than yours doesn't mean it isn't valid, nor does it mean you should chew him out because of it. Turian, I have nothing against you personally, and I'm not biased towards Flash either - I don't know either of you very well at all - but I do feel you ought to relax and not be so twitchy around people stating what they didn't like about the game.

Opinions, people. Opinions.

[Bueno Excelente]

I pretty much tried to explain my principle with examples from the game, got the whole facts out, and am willing to discuss individual parts of flawed levels. But people here are going one of two ways.

- "Everyone deserves an opinion!"

or

- "You don't know how to play it well!"

Instead of simply going on a well-thought response, making citations of direct examples of flawed execution, lifted from the game itself and argue those in a professional and resourceful manner, I'm just gonna give up for good on arguing this with people who don't read, and going back to talking about the main subject at hand.


Now, for Sonic Colors, I seriously hope they don't make it so an actual story is necessary. If we get a single 30-second plot presentation at the beginning of the game, then another one at the end, it's good enough for me. Something like "Oh, Eggman hid in that park! But we can't go through here. Look! Let's use these critters' elements to break through these obstacles! Wheeeee!" That alone will be more than enough, along with a "We saved the day! Yay!" at the end. If the game focuses on pure gameplay, dispite trying to appeal more to children (at least at a first glance), it's good enough.

On the gameplay side, I seriously hope speed isn't focused here. Sonic can run fast, but since he's element-driven now, I hope we're just given enough speed for him to go through stuff at a non-boring rate, and leave the rest of the gameplay to the elements. I also hope waggling isn't necessary. Gamecube controller compatibility would be awesome.

[Alice in Entropy]

Well, if you'd like, I'd be more than happy to discuss Unleashed's flaws with you. I do feel quite silly for assuming you were talking about Rush when clearly that is not the case.

[Mirby]

As much as I hope the Wii version will be excellent, I'm leaning more towards the DS side of things. As I've said multiple times in this thread already, I hope it will be awesome.

And yeah, speed isn't the main focus here. I think a more... cerebral take will work best here, if you know what I mean.

[Bueno Excelente]

Well, if you'd like, I'd be more than happy to discuss Unleashed's flaws with you. I do feel quite silly for assuming you were talking about Rush when clearly that is not the case.

Rush had a different mechanic. The Rush bar was built on tricks. Rush had the principle of games like Tony Hawk. Keep doing massive trick combos and dash through the entire level, blazing through enemies and the like. And most levels were quite dash-friendly. The second-to-last zone was built to be a platforming-full place, while the very last zone was also the easiest, more about dashing and rushing freely building massive combos than anything else. Unleashed tried to act on the same principle, forgetting that the levels in Rush had to be very gameplay-friendly for the mechanic to work. And the LB/RB buttons were some of the worst ideas I've ever seen. You either build a game on sidestepping and running forward, like Secret Rings, or you make a game with free movement, like Adventure. Rush tried to do both at the same time and failed spectacularly.

But please, let's just stop talking about this. This isn't the topic or time to talk about Unleashed. A new time has come, and Sega are hopefully not overlooking their past flaws, and will try to make a fun game with emphasis on good gameplay rather than jamming speed elements into a game where they do not belong.

[Rock Bomb]

Opinions, people. Opinions.