Topic: X8. I didnt like it all that much.

[Hypershell]

Well, that and we couldn't discuss our tastes in kickass music like we do.

Half-empty or half-full?

[Protoman Blues]

3/4 Full for me!  Till I drink all my delicious Mango Lemonade.  But then I just get more!

Wait....what are we talking about again?

[borockman]

Kickass music? 

[Protoman Blues]

Indeed.  You know what, I think I'm going to make that topic.

[Soultrigger]

"Poor" is a term that relates to one's expectations, especially in your case if what I've read is any indication.  There is no standardized scale in entertainment.  Whether or not warnings prior to hazards are merited, and to what degree, is up to personal preference.

Of course life is subjective and people are entitled to their opinions. The only absolute things in life are probably the facts.
Let's bring up the forced gameover situation yet again. I can say it's cheap and unfair. On the other hand, I could say it adds "replay value." Obviously, I believe the former and, from past experiences (i.e. X~X5), think it should have been excluded from the game. Don't agree with me and think my thought process is flawed? Fine, but we'll end it with that.

Shadow X again forsakes default abilities, that being the air-dash.  It's not something to give up so recklessly.

You were a stickler about expecting X5-to-X6 similarities, so I'll give you one: Shadow is X6's equivalent to Gaia Armor.  Gaia Armor hampered your default abilities by slowing your dash speed, which made Zero Virus Stage 1 very nearly impossible, and far more tedious than I care to repeat despite my love of Gaia.  Shadow, likewise, does the same in its lacking an air-dash, a feature which X6 utilizes far more than X5 did.  It's the tradeoff for your spike immunity and insane power (Gaia's buster raped bosses, if you recall).  However, unlike Gaia, Shadow doesn't cancel Power-Up Parts, so you can compensate.  An option which X5 did not provide.

Shadow is a trade-off in lacking abilities you started the game with.  Such should not be taken recklessly.

Not exactly. Shadow is partially handicapped, yes, but it's different from Unarmored X in that it has benefits. Unlike Unarmored X, which is solely for challenge, Shadow is offered as a differing play style.

As far as I am concerned Shadow Armor is understood as partially handicapped for reasons I described above, therefore I did not consider Gate's Lab 2 relevant to discussions of a run which you specifically described as not handicapped.  Your last post wasn't very specific in which part of the game you were complaining about.  You "moved past" unarmored X complaints but the specific point at which you did so was not clear to me.

Sorry for being unclear then.

[Zan]

Shadow X

It's been ages since I played X6 and I'm trying to remember the lay out of that area in question. I wonder... is it not perhaps possible to cross that gap by making creative use of Shadow's ceiling cling capabilities?

[Solar]

If you mean Gate's lab first stage then yes, that's how I did the first time around. For some reason I thought I required Shadow X to do it

[Soultrigger]

It's been ages since I played X6 and I'm trying to remember the lay out of that area in question. I wonder... is it not perhaps possible to cross that gap by making creative use of Shadow's ceiling cling capabilities?

I think you need to be on a floor to use High Jump/Ceiling Cling.

[Keno]

Unlike Gate's Lab 1, this occurs in the middle of part 2 and, IIRC, restarting the stage forces you to replay part 1 <b>and</b> High Max.

It'd be so much better if you had to start at the first Gate stage.

[Satoryu]

You lie.

[Flame]

It's been ages since I played X6 and I'm trying to remember the lay out of that area in question. I wonder... is it not perhaps possible to cross that gap by making creative use of Shadow's ceiling cling capabilities?

this might help.
http://www.bghq.com/bgs.php?system=psx
however, it seems to lack X's after Highmax area... Or at leats the part I THINK is in question. (having to cross that gap while in the acid rain, right?)

also, Shadow armor's Ceiling cling works exactly the same as Zero's. up and jump, and you do a high jump. if you hit a ceiling you'll grab onto it. you can then shoot down a rain of shuriken shots, unless you have ultimate buster. you can also dash across the ceiling instead of staying shooting down.

but you have to start on the ground to do all that.

[Solar]

Is it the part after :50 here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAL4FeW0OqA

Unless I'm confusing it with a similar part in Gate's first level, I think I did get past that with the Shadow Armor (it was quite long ago so I'm not sure).

[Zan]

but you have to start on the ground to do all that.

Yeah, that's the part I completely forgot about.... So scratch that suggestion.

You know, looking at the pit in question, it -looks-  easily doable with default wall kicks, but somehow isn't. I doubt you'd actually notice you're stuck outside of failing all the time. It just looks too doable for one not to try again and again.

[Keno]

Is it the part after :50 here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAL4FeW0OqA

Unless I'm confusing it with a similar part in Gate's first level, I think I did get past that with the Shadow Armor (it was quite long ago so I'm not sure).

1:03 specifically

You know, looking at the pit in question, it -looks-  easily doable with default wall kicks, but somehow isn't. I doubt you'd actually notice you're stuck outside of failing all the time. It just looks too doable for one not to try again and again.

You realize it's impossible when you hit the opposite wall for the 50th time.

Still, this is what makes games good & hard. Anyone that hates that jump is a big pussy.

[Hypershell]

You know, looking at the pit in question, it -looks-  easily doable with default wall kicks, but somehow isn't. I doubt you'd actually notice you're stuck outside of failing all the time. It just looks too doable for one not to try again and again.

It's because the pillar hanging down in the middle of it caps the height of your jump, hence the necessity for distance without height.  Despite this Jumper still seems to increase your air time to make things easier, but it's Hyper Dash that is really necessary for unarmored/Shadow.  You can clear it without Jumper, though, it just takes precise timing.

Not exactly. Shadow is partially handicapped, yes, but it's different from Unarmored X in that it has benefits. Unlike Unarmored X, which is solely for challenge, Shadow is offered as a differing play style.

That much is true.  But anybody who paid attention while exploring X6's expanded areas probably noticed how difficult it is to get around without an air-dash (Amazon Area in particular).  Hyper Dash is the compensator for that.  Shadow's firepower is a valuable asset, but forking over your default abilities really isn't something you should be doing in unfamiliar territory unless you're willing to face the risks.

You're only slightly more screwed in that situation than you are with Gaia Armor in Zero Virus 1.  In X6 the work-around is a part.  In X5 it's repeated deaths for the sake of memorization.  I don't know about you but I prefer the earlier.  It makes replays a lot more pleasant.

[Keno]

Why would Gaia make Zero Virus 1 hard? It can still dash jump fine, right?

[AquaTeamV3]

Why would Gaia make Zero Virus 1 hard? It can still dash jump fine, right?

The slow speed makes the lasers that much more of a pain to avoid.  The fact that you stick to walls also hurts more than helps when you're trying to avoid those things.  Access to Dark Hold never hurts, either.

Also, I made a hilarious discovery about the game just now.  Using the T-Breaker, you can actually kill Vile while he's on his Ride Armor.  It's funny because the finishing blow launches Vile off of the armor, which is very amusing to watch.

[Satoryu]

Also, I made a hilarious discovery about the game just now.  Using the T-Breaker, you can actually kill Vile while he's on his Ride Armor.  It's funny because the finishing blow launches Vile off of the armor, which is very amusing to watch.

Care to elaborate? This could help if I ever speedrun X8 again.

[Flame]

Use the T hammer
get Vile down to near death,
hit him.

[AquaTeamV3]

Care to elaborate? This could help if I ever speedrun X8 again.

The T-Breaker's gimmick is that it ignores guards; it doesn't break them, it just acts like they aren't there.  For example, you can kill Trilobite without ever needing to remove his armor.  In the same respect for Vile, you can kill him without having to force him out of the armor, provided you actually aim for Vile's body and not the armor itself.  I will note that you cannot use it on Lumine's Paradise Lost technique IIRC.

A couple more random tidbits:

• X's Crystal Wall 'absorbs' electricity; it even goes so far as to absorb all of the electricity shot out of Man-o-War's desperation attack.
• When Antonion chucks his boulder at you, you can use Zero's 3rd slash to knock it back to him.  After this Antonion will catch it and proceed to throw it again.  Do this 3 times and he will drop it on himself, doing quite a large chunk of damage.

[Satoryu]

How fast can this be done to Vile? Faster than in this video?

The Antonion thing also has me curious.

[AquaTeamV3]

How fast can this be done to Vile? Faster than in this video?

The Antonion thing also has me curious.

That honestly depends.  I will note that there is no damage barrier in effect when using the Breaker on Vile IIRC, which means that you could probably dust him with Black Zero.  Normally, you have to wait for invincibility times to wear off, especially when he gets back into the armor.  If you're speedrunning it then you won't care about getting hit, so in that regard it may in fact be a faster alternative.  Then again, I'm no speedrunner myself. 

[Soultrigger]

That much is true.  But anybody who paid attention while exploring X6's expanded areas probably noticed how difficult it is to get around without an air-dash (Amazon Area in particular).  Hyper Dash is the compensator for that.  Shadow's firepower is a valuable asset, but forking over your default abilities really isn't something you should be doing in unfamiliar territory unless you're willing to face the risks.

You're only slightly more screwed in that situation than you are with Gaia Armor in Zero Virus 1.  In X6 the work-around is a part.  In X5 it's repeated deaths for the sake of memorization.  I don't know about you but I prefer the earlier.  It makes replays a lot more pleasant.

I get what you mean, but after Gate's Lab 1, it's not too far-fetched to go into Lab 2 with Shadow (especially since Lab 2 also has plenty of spikes). Going in without Hyper Dash is just bad luck. 

Anyways, I finished recording what I promised. Now I just need to make the vid/upload.

[Flame]

Ive done Gate 2 with Blade armor and Ultimate armor... no Hyper dash speedster or jumper. God... all those spikes and moving platforms...

[Soultrigger]

Gate's Lab 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzRr7UNzO7g[/youtube]
Gate's Lab 2 (X)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvNv2E9k6Ic[/youtube]

Read the youtube vid. description for more info. and feel free to comment.