Topic: What makes and kills replay value for you?

[Da Dood]

Some of mine...

Makes

- Objective freedom: I can't get bored if my ultimate goal is to create my own playthrough.
   (Main reference: Super Mario 64)

- Path planning: Same as above, only somewhat more strategic.
   (Main reference: Mega Man, Star Fox 64)

- Interaction variables: Player-enemy, weapon-environment, whatever!
   (Main reference: Mega Man X2, Devil May Cry)

Kills

- Unskippable cutscenes: The sole reason why I don't play Ocarina of Time once a week.
   (Main offenders: OoT, Mega Man Zero)

- Mandatory artificial fetch quests: The sole reason why I don't play Wind Waker once a week...
   (Main offenders: WW, Metroid Prime 2: Echoes)

- Mandatory tutorials: I don't need to learn how to jump on my 8th run!
   (Main offenders: Super Mario Sunshine, Okami)

[HyperSonicEXE]

Well, let's see:

Makes:

- Customization: Yeah, you think Starfox 64 was good? Imagine if you could customize your ship to SFCommand levels.
   (Main reference: F-Zero GX, Custom Robo, it's an element in most RPGs)

- Pacing: Nothing like grabbing a quick star or speeding through a stage to get you addicted.
   (Main reference: Super Mario 64, Sonic Adventure 1, Kirby Superstar)

- Secret Bosses: And this is the sure-fire way to ens
   (Main reference: Kingdom Hearts 1, Megaman ZX, Megaman Battle Network series)

Kills:

- Cheap Deaths: Nothing says "Hey, stop playing me" like needless spikes or some surprise you couldn't have known about.
   (Main reference: Super Mario Bros. 2 JP, MMZ2)

- Overly Random: It's one thing to mix up the gameplay; it's another to not think it through.
   (Main reference: Mega Man 1 Helipads, Randomly-generated dungeon crawlers)

- Chase segments: It's just a mood-killer, especially when you WERE having fun exploring.
   (Main reference: Sonic 3 and Knuckles)

[Protoman Blues]

The same thing that Makes or Kills anything I do in life lately...

...time.

[Jericho]

The same thing that Makes or Kills anything I do in life lately...

...time.

This is the truth.

[kuja killer]

Well my main "turn off" so to speak is having to play through a game over and over again just to get something. Or something to that effect.

The biggest one ever to me was when i was recently playing Sonic Advance 2 for GBA (i don't own it, just rom+emulator), and well after  I beat the game for my first time, I found out that in order to access the secret special level ...you gotta beat the game with every character, and get all 7 chaos emeralds for everyone ...fuuuuck that. I could never even get 1 emerald on that game, it's way too hard, i just can't do it.  Where you gotta get 300 rings in 2 minutes.
So i cheated by downloading a savestate with everything unlocked.

I hope i can bare doing some of those challenges i looked at for mm9 such as "beat the game 5 times in 24 hours" ...geeez.

[VixyNyan]

Getting all 7 emeralds for every character in Sonic Advance 2 was one of my proudest achievements way back when it first came out. I enjoy watching the cute and sad intro for the Extra Zone before turning into Super Sonic. When Cream started cry for her mom, that moment when Sonic transformed, gave his thumbs up and flew away was so thoughtfully, adorably cool. Those kind of cutscenes are so great and doesn't next text to makes you excited and dragged into them.

Then you manage to rescue Vanilla and it was only by a hand-reach that the day was saved. And I think some of you admit that Vanilla is pretty good-looking. She totally has it going on~

A lot of members have seen me beat Rockman 9, 5 times in a row, in 24 hours on my live stream channel. It shows that it's manageable. ^^

[vile mk4]

Makes:

The pinball golden rule: If the game is simple yet rewarding, and every time you lose it's your fault, people will be instantly addicted. This rule aplies to videogames like Donkey Kong and Pacman.

Personalize: Nothing makes a game funnier than naming and designing your characters, every time you replay the game your're not doing it only for the sake of the game itself, you want to improve and see your sons and daughters evolve. See X-com and final fantasy tactics. The more you can personalize, the better.

Unlock and explore: Unlock customes, levels, characters, find new abilities and skills, ect. Sometimes i even replay bad games like the force unleashed only to see what else i can unlock and use. Banjo Kazooie anyone ?.

Kills:

The very opossite of the pinball rule: if the game kills you in unfair and frustating ways rather than because errors or mistakes that you made, no reward, therefore no fun.

If the game is linear as hell there will be no reason to repeat it. Hell, when i began playing Captain Commando i decided to finish it only for the sake of playing complete it at least once and not replaying it again. People likes variety.

Excess of complexity: If the game is too complex and confusing, people will be alienated and won´t feel happy to replay that crap ever again.

[Acid]

I like what 'Tales of...' games do. Instead of giving you a simple New Game+ function, in which all your stats and equipment carry over, you can "buy" features for your new game with grade earned in your previous playthrough. Works as a great motivator, at least for me.

[Solar]

I think that we can all agree that the most important thing that makes replay value is fun. Seriously, if it wasn't fun who would be replaying it? It doesn't matter what extra content there is, as long as you have fun playing then you will find yourself replaying the game over and over.

I hope i can bare doing some of those challenges i looked at for mm9 such as "beat the game 5 times in 24 hours" ...geeez.

You can cheat in that challenge (replaying only the final levels 5 times will get you the achievement), so don't worry too much about it. If you want to worry about a challenge, worry about "Mr. Perfect" >____<

[Satoryu]

I think that we can all agree that the most important thing that makes replay value is fun. Seriously, if it wasn't fun who would be replaying it? It doesn't matter what extra content there is, as long as you have fun playing then you will find yourself replaying the game over and over.

thread over.

though i will add when a game forces you to play it over and over again, it's replayability comes into question. Shadow The Hedgehog comes to mind.

[Da Dood]

Well, of course a game should be fun above everything...

This is just about the usual staples or features that tend to pull you back or push you away. Ocarina of Time is fun. I rarely replay it, though, because I have to sit through hours of annoying cutscenes and two-line text skipping.

[Satoryu]

back in the day, i would play OoT a couple times. same for Majora's Mask, to a lesser extent. but now, i probably won't ever touch the games again.

length is a factor in replayability. Mega Man games can be beaten in an hour most of the time. same goes for the Genesis Sonic games, old school Marios, and most Castlevanias. there are some longer games i could pick up and play anytime. No More Heroes comes to mind. but things like Final Fantasy VII, X, and Kingdom Hearts? i'll never touch them again.

[kuja killer]

You can cheat in that challenge (replaying only the final levels 5 times will get you the achievement), so don't worry too much about it. If you want to worry about a challenge, worry about "Mr. Perfect" >____<

Oh did not know that would be possible. About just having to go through wily isntead of start the game all over, okay then Cool.

Wow mr. perfect huh? Beat the game without being damaged once. Yikes that sounds like "almost" impossible.

Also i can't wait to try the "super hero" mode sometime in the near future. I hope the enemy placements and stuff are actually different, unlike say in Megaman 2 US, where picking the hard difficulty only just meant it takes more hits to kill enemies and nothing else.

[Psycho Yuffie]

back in the day, i would play OoT a couple times. same for Majora's Mask, to a lesser extent. but now, i probably won't ever touch the games again.

length is a factor in replayability. Mega Man games can be beaten in an hour most of the time. same goes for the Genesis Sonic games, old school Marios, and most Castlevanias. there are some longer games i could pick up and play anytime. No More Heroes comes to mind. but things like Final Fantasy VII, X, and Kingdom Hearts? i'll never touch them again.

Speak for yourself. I still play OoT and MM. Those are classics. Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts? Oh, yes! I love those games. Also, it takes me hours to play through a Mega Man game to get frustrated and give up. >>;

[HyperSonicEXE]

but things like Final Fantasy VII, X, and Kingdom Hearts? i'll never touch them again.

I've got KH1 and FFVII, still. Even FFT.

On occasions, I start new files, and enjoy 'em again.

But you're right in that I don't "replay" them as often as I would platformers or other genres, simply because finishing a longer RPG is very draining and involved, and you may want to wait a while before doing it again.

Then you manage to rescue Vanilla and it was only by a hand-reach that the day was saved. And I think some of you admit that Vanilla is pretty good-looking. She totally has it going on~

Sorry, I couldn't hear you for all the latex.
(see: attachment)

[Satoryu]

Speak for yourself.

that's what i did.

[Flame]

Megaman X command mission killed its replay value with the fact that once youve beaten the final and secret bosses, theres really no one left to give you a challenge...
sure, Redips is still there, and I can still fight him a gazillion times, but hes easy and boring. (and so are the boss remaches...)
cuz the thing is.. Once youve defeatedthe entire Tails clan, you KNOW your strong
I wish that the tails clan would regenerate over time, and youd have to fight them again.
then things would be more interesting.

[HyperSonicEXE]

Megaman X command mission killed its replay value with the fact that once youve beaten the final and secret bosses, theres really no one left to give you a challenge...
sure, Redips is still there, and I can still fight him a gazillion times, but hes easy and boring. (and so are the boss remaches...)
cuz the thing is.. Once youve defeatedthe entire Tails clan, you KNOW your strong
I wish that the tails clan would regenerate over time, and youd have to fight them again.
then things would be more interesting.

True, but that's nothing new. A lot of JRPG bosses disappear when you beat them.

Though I would point to Kingdom Hearts and a some Tales of games that let you fight some of those fights over and over again.

[Hypershell]

Makes it:

Addicting music.
(Main reference: MegaMan 3, MegaMan Xtreme 2)

Chaotic and explosive customization.
(Main reference: Super Smash Bros.)

Fun boss fights.
(Main reference, even if painfully easy: New Super Mario Bros.)

Multiple ending rewards.
(Main reference: Metroid Zero Mission)

Fanboyishly orgasmic characters.
(Main references: Smash Bros., MegaMan 9, Wii version of Godzilla Unleashed)

Strong arsenal/power-up selection.
(Main reference: MegaMan X6)

Additional replay content.
(Main reference: Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn)

Levels that are fun to blast through.
(Main reference: Sonic Adventure 2)

And because it *MUST* be said:
Super Forms
(Main reference: Sonic 3 & Knuckles)



Breaks it:

Inferiority complex; the game has to do SOMETHING better than its predecessors, even if not everything.
(Main offender: Yoshi's Island DS)

Aggravating power-up distribution.
(Main offender: MegaMan X5)

Aggravating lack of power-up retention.
(Main offender: Super Mario Sunshine)

Mundane level design.
(Main offender: Super Mario Sunshine)

Attempting and utterly failing to properly utilize the MOST BASIC FEATURES OF THE CONSOLE.
(Main offender: NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams, that pointer is terrible)

Over-emphasis on memorizing levels over rewarding one's reaction time.
(Main offenders: Sonic Riders, MegaMan 9)

Ear-splitting sound/music.
(Main offenders: MegaMan Xtreme1, and that GBC Animorphs game whose subtitle escapes me)

[Flame]

there was actually an Animorphs game?

[Nexus]

You want a bad example of replay value that should never be followed? Shadow the Hedgehog, 'nuff said. 

Good example-wise, I can't really draw anything up other than "the game is fun enough to play again." And now adays, many games are kinda one-shot deals unfortunately, not counting multiplayer. 

[Fxeni]

And now adays, many games are kinda one-shot deals unfortunately, not counting multiplayer. 

That's to make sure people will continue buying new games instead of playing the same old ones over and over again. They do it on purpose.

As for the topic... well, as long as it's completely optional, and the game is fun, then it's all good for me. But if I'm forced to replay it (Shadow >_>), then it's not really all that great.

[Hypershell]

Shadow would have worked if they had axed the boss fork at the final 5 stages.  5 endings should have been plenty, and you'd have at least had a few new stages with each play.  But noooo, they gotta force 10 freaking replays on you.  Ludicrous.

Well, at least the Last Story is kinda worth it.  Chaos Controlling through otherwise blocked passages was awesome.

there was actually an Animorphs game?

Three.  One for GBC, one for PS1, one for PC.

The GBC is a watered-down Pokemon knockoff with complete lack of direction, all dark/muddy visuals, and ear-piercing sound.  I couldn't even bear to force myself through one stage.

The PS1 is a fundamentally flawed concept of locking you in human form through an outrageously hard platformer with very awkward physics.  You morph only for the occasional battle, and two on-rails swimming/flight stages.  That one I did finish, maybe I was more motivated since it was a rental.

The PC is nothing epic, but at least passable compared to the other two.  There's a lot more freedom, and a generally more faithful interpretation, at least.

Ax and Tobias are NPC on GBC and PS1.  I'm not even sure if Ax is in the PC game at all, while Tobias is, if I remember correctly, available in some limited fashion.

[Satoryu]

Over-emphasis on memorizing levels over rewarding one's reaction time.
(Main offenders: Sonic Riders, MegaMan 9)

that's a gross exaggeration. aside from the spike trap at the beginning of Splash Woman and the grabber robots in Galaxy Man, MM9 isn't any more dependent on memorization than other Mega Man games, or most any game for that matter.

X Play gave X8 a 2/5 because, to paraphrase, the levels require you to play them over and over again, dieing thousands of times, just to learn what to do. they grossly exaggerated too. no one should be dieing that much in X8; it's not a trap-infested game. but even so, you really expect to be able to go through the entire game on the first shot without dieing? it's part of the problem solving process. it's part of learning the game.

[Hypershell]

that's a gross exaggeration. aside from the spike trap at the beginning of Splash Woman and the grabber robots in Galaxy Man

That in and of itself is enough for it to take a back seat to other MegaMan games in terms of level design.  But I don't think the game is terrible; I did list reasons MM9 gains replay value too, you know.  And I could definitely list more, but my post was getting pretty long as it is.  The game's good, I just don't think it's AS good as the rest of the internet proclaims.

The grabbers aren't exclusive to Galaxy Man, either; you find them again in Wily's Castle and Endless Attack.

Bear in mind you are talking to a man who scored a No Damage Clear on Avalanche Yeti.  I'm not against a challenge, and of course some degree of trial-and-error is part of the game.  But MM9 was out of balance.