Sonic Generations (360, PS3, 3DS) - Holiday 2011

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Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #325 on: September 15, 2011, 12:00:44 AM
Well he DOES go into pipes...

Modern Sonic is about Speed. Sonic '06 experimented with autorunning speed segments, and Unleashed solidified the concept into decent speed based gameplay.

Colors took what Unleashed did and polished it off, as well as including more 2D segments. And since they werent restricted to regions of the world anymore, they were able to do much more creative things with the stages. They also brought back Eggman as the final boss, returning some of his lost dignity along the way, and they shed the 4kids actors, leaving only Mike Pollock cuz hes just such a great Eggman.

And Generations is following suit by actually having Classic pure 2D sonic in the game, and stages based on old stages from all across Sonic's lifetime.

Wow Sega. Wow.

Its just amazing how they have come this far.
Colors fixed the broken level design and loose gameplay Unleashed had. They actually fixed velocity, which was either stop-or-run in Unleashed. It was very nice.

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Maybe Mega Man will follow suit some day?
You honestly think the fans would ever let it? No matter how much potencial it has? =P



Offline Flame

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Reply #326 on: September 15, 2011, 02:59:34 AM
Colors fixed the broken level design and loose gameplay Unleashed had. They actually fixed velocity, which was either stop-or-run in Unleashed. It was very nice.
Yeah. they made Boost points not as simple to get (EG getting rings doesnt fill it up) so you dont just perma boost. so once you run out, it might be a bit before the bar fils up.
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You honestly think the fans would ever let it? No matter how much potencial it has? =P
Lol no.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #327 on: September 16, 2011, 12:23:29 AM
The biggest thing they fixed, was the level design. There's a reason Unleashed in daytime was even worse than nighttime. Gameplay was better, but level design was worse, to the point of seeming like a 9-year old fiddled with a level design to figure out how damn unintuitive and entirely based on trial-and-error levels could be.

In Colors, that's fixed. First of all, you actually start walking before running in levels, having an increasing and decreasing speed as you go, not sliding your feet through every level as soon as you slow down, like in Unleashed. The dodge manuever was placed in an easier-to-find button and dodge sections are pre-warned beforehand. Not only that, failure from dodge sections simply bring you to a lower section of the level, something which is true to original Sonic games. The homing attack performs by pressing jump twice instead of jump and X/Square, which makes no sense. You also can't use the homing attack freely, just for enemies, and the double jump is way more handy than one would imagine. Water sections are nice, they even added a hard-to-get Super Sonic for regular levels and not even for the endgame, and they made the stage design really colorful and fun. Not just that, for a Wii game, it looks very good.

Now hopefully, we'll get all of that, PLUS the beautiful hedgehog engine which renders high definition levels at high speed, and the old-style levels, which perform pretty damn well with the enemies having their old-style animations intact.



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Reply #328 on: September 16, 2011, 01:23:15 AM
Colors was fun, but going back to it after a while, I noticed that the controls feel extremely loose (I've not played Unleashed; my main comparison is Sonic Adventure 2).

That and Super Sonic was a little TOO hard to unlock.  One of those issues where by the time you (legitimately) unlock him, you'll have replayed every level so many times that you're damn sick of the game.  Breakneck speeds and item-hunting just don't mix.

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Reply #329 on: September 16, 2011, 01:32:27 AM
Colors was fun, but going back to it after a while, I noticed that the controls feel extremely loose (I've not played Unleashed; my main comparison is Sonic Adventure 2).

That and Super Sonic was a little TOO hard to unlock.  One of those issues where by the time you (legitimately) unlock him, you'll have replayed every level so many times that you're damn sick of the game.  Breakneck speeds and item-hunting just don't mix.
Agreed in both counts. I'm just trying not to be picky, due to the Sonic Adventure gameplay having been completely been scrapped by the team's inability to make it work right in 06. The main problem with Sonic games up until Unleashed? They couldn't agree on a damn gameplay model, because all of them simply sucked. So instead of making them good, they went with the fans' opinions. "MAKE THEM DIFFERENT", instead of improving what they already had. Still, they managed to settle on the Unleashed gameplay model for two games, and lo and behold! It actually works really well. Not as good as SA2 when it comes to 3D control, I'll give you that. But it's got amazing stages, great speed control, actual well-designed levels, story you don't take seriously and it's FINALLY, after all these years, a game everyone can agree is good.

Yes, the Sonic Adventure gameplay is still my favorite. But let's let them try to make this one better and better, because they're nailing it. And if Generations turns out to be the best Sonic game in ten years or so, we'll all be happy, and Sonic will be a respectful franchise again. And that's what we all want.



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Reply #330 on: September 16, 2011, 03:22:20 AM
Not only that, failure from dodge sections simply bring you to a lower section of the level, something which is true to original Sonic games.

You mean they fixed the problem that's been plaguing Sonic games for years?  Wow, I really do need to pick up Colors, then, as I haven't played a Sonic game since ShTH (played '06 at a friend's house and hated it).  If Sega really learned from their mistakes, Generations could potentially be one of the best Sonic games to date.  Heck, if the Classic sections get that part right, Generations will put Sonic back on the map for both fans of the new and old games alike!

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Reply #331 on: September 16, 2011, 03:34:35 AM
You mean they fixed the problem that's been plaguing Sonic games for years?  Wow, I really do need to pick up Colors, then, as I haven't played a Sonic game since ShTH (played '06 at a friend's house and hated it).  If Sega really learned from their mistakes, Generations could potentially be one of the best Sonic games to date.  Heck, if the Classic sections get that part right, Generations will put Sonic back on the map for both fans of the new and old games alike!
'06 was not a game, it was an eldrich abomination. Aside from Silver's first halfway playable level and Blaze's controls, there was literally NOTHING good about it. At all.

And so far, every single classic/modern part seems to get that part right. Sonic was plagued by two things: Bad, slippery controls, and awful level design, mostly based on too many bottomless pits and sections which seemed like they had been ripped out of a romhack. Colors, although not having the most stellar level design there is, keeps it in the sane territory, making transitions into areas easy and fun, and bottomless pits to a minimum. You're more likely to die from 2D level parts when enemies start shooting out bullets like a bullet hell game (which is hella fun I might add).



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Reply #332 on: September 16, 2011, 03:45:29 AM
And so far, every single classic/modern part seems to get that part right. Sonic was plagued by two things: Bad, slippery controls, and awful level design, mostly based on too many bottomless pits and sections which seemed like they had been ripped out of a romhack. Colors, although not having the most stellar level design there is, keeps it in the sane territory, making transitions into areas easy and fun, and bottomless pits to a minimum. You're more likely to die from 2D level parts when enemies start shooting out bullets like a bullet hell game (which is hella fun I might add).

Ah, that's good to know.  Bottomless pits are the sole factor that turned me off about newer Sonic games.  Sometimes I'd want to go through a quick stage in Heroes/Shadow just for fun, and I'd make one mistake and be sent to my death via bottomless pit.  Not necessarily bad mistakes, even; anything from a loop glitching out to an unexpected enemy collision would cause me to go flying off the stage.  I'm glad they finally wised up on that issue.

Though, the romhack comment makes me laugh because Sonic romhacks are generally pretty good.  Need I remind you of the Sonic 1 GBA hack that far exceeded the actual game.  Sonic Megamix was pretty legit too.

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Reply #333 on: September 16, 2011, 04:03:55 AM
Ah, that's good to know.  Bottomless pits are the sole factor that turned me off about newer Sonic games.  Sometimes I'd want to go through a quick stage in Heroes/Shadow just for fun, and I'd make one mistake and be sent to my death via bottomless pit.  Not necessarily bad mistakes, even; anything from a loop glitching out to an unexpected enemy collision would cause me to go flying off the stage.  I'm glad they finally wised up on that issue.

Though, the romhack comment makes me laugh because Sonic romhacks are generally pretty good.  Need I remind you of the Sonic 1 GBA hack that far exceeded the actual game.  Sonic Megamix was pretty legit too.
Honestly, the only Sonic fangame I've ever liked was Sonic Fan Remix. =P Mostly because it was the only fan game I truly saw as a middle finger in Sonic Team's face.

But yeah. Try out Colors, it's the most legitimately good Sonic game since Adventure 2.



Offline Flame

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Reply #334 on: September 16, 2011, 04:44:02 AM
Sonic 1 Megamix is hands down the best Sonic romhack there is. Its a completely different game.

Also, there was 1 thing good about 06.

Shadow played like he SHOULD have played in StHH. (AKA no guns, and the vehicles controlled and worked far better)

Silver was pretty broken IMO. Especially since he could stop enemy projectiles and fling them back. Later in game once your bar was fully upgraded, (you could extend it right? I dont remember now) You see a mob of enemies? No problem! Activate your capture and simply let them unload till you cant hold no more, then throw them back.

OR just grab the enemies and crush them.

Also I didnt find Unleashed's Levels that bad. If anything somewhat bland in their level design and they went by too quickly. Also, the emphasis on always boosting leads you to not being able to fully appreciate the environments half the time.

Although Wii's Unleashed Eggmanland (Day) is pretty epic. Especially how it starts off.


...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #335 on: September 16, 2011, 09:30:54 AM
Sonic 1 Megamix is hands down the best Sonic romhack there is. Its a completely different game.

Also, there was 1 thing good about 06.

Shadow played like he SHOULD have played in StHH. (AKA no guns, and the vehicles controlled and worked far better)

Silver was pretty broken IMO. Especially since he could stop enemy projectiles and fling them back. Later in game once your bar was fully upgraded, (you could extend it right? I dont remember now) You see a mob of enemies? No problem! Activate your capture and simply let them unload till you cant hold no more, then throw them back.

OR just grab the enemies and crush them.

Also I didnt find Unleashed's Levels that bad. If anything somewhat bland in their level design and they went by too quickly. Also, the emphasis on always boosting leads you to not being able to fully appreciate the environments half the time.

Although Wii's Unleashed Eggmanland (Day) is pretty epic. Especially how it starts off.
Shadow's 06 gameplay didn't really feel like it was anything much. The Chaos Spear didn't really work well, and the karate moves on enemies instead of homing attacks, felt kinda silly. I would rather they expanded his arsenal like they did in Sonic Battle to make him original, because his gameplay didn't make much sense in a fast-paced gaming point of view.

And in Silver's case, it felt awful because you ALWAYS needed projectiles to stop enemies. And due to the lack of them in certain situations, deactivating enemies became a bit of a chore when it came to having to be next to them, or always needing to throw one or two projectiles at them back in the middle of several. The entire physics in the game were bullshit, they just picked up the gravity gun engine and threw it at the game like it was supposed to stick.

And Unleashed's levels... I can't speak for the Wii levels, due to them being too small for me to appreciate. But the rationale behind the HD levels is insane sometimes. It's always "one single mistake or bug in the area you're maybe supposed to hit, and you die". Making you jump at obtuse moments, using the shoulder buttons by flashing them on screen a quarter of a second before they're actually needed and you die immediately, having areas which can only be described as "You either hit this [parasitic bomb] JUST like the game creator intended, or you go back to the beginning"... the whole thing felt so badly designed... some early levels had a nice design, but as they got harder, they felt less intuitive and unfair instead of upping the challenge in a good way. That website you showed me has a REALLY good way of explaining how they failed.



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Reply #336 on: September 18, 2011, 11:54:29 PM
The way I see it, Unleashed for the Wii was very easy to get into and play - while rather drab and boring, it was rather sane in its demands and expectations of the player's abilities. Unleashed for the 360 and PS3 had me on the edge of difficulty from the very first flight level on the Tornado (which is essentially at the beginning of the game practically), and it just gets ridiculously hard after that with tons of pits, traps, and long levels that wear you down. It was cool seeing Sonic Team trying to actually make a game challenging after Heroes and Shadow were [acid burst]-easy (not counting '06 being the beta it was, nor glitches in the aforementioned games), but they made Unleashed a headbanger difficulty-wise.

Everyone seems to agree that Colors balanced out the difficulty, though. I'm confident that they can maintain the same with Generations, all the terrible preview players aside.



Offline Phi

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Reply #337 on: September 29, 2011, 05:36:09 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yExkCNQ3fhw&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Posted on: September 26, 2011, 02:23:30 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibuHW981wCE&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]



Offline irgpie

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Reply #338 on: September 29, 2011, 05:42:05 AM
Dat Door Into Summer ♥

Also love how they managed to add a bit of Marble Garden Zone in there. Fits well with Sky Sanctuary.

Really hyped up for this game now.



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Reply #339 on: September 29, 2011, 05:53:47 AM
I've already preordered this with $20 but seeing the Death Egg again makes me with I couldve just bought it right there.



Offline Phi

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Reply #340 on: September 29, 2011, 07:04:26 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JtP-ofLf_Ag[/youtube]

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Reply #341 on: September 29, 2011, 10:24:03 PM
Speed Highway. I am moist.


...if they have that slightly-explorable open clean crisp beautiful city section at the end in a worthy way, I will cry.



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Reply #342 on: October 07, 2011, 09:01:32 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjDJd6Ay5jw&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

I'll just say this right now. I see very little reason for this game to fail now. Jesus, this looks so fun. <3

It seems there are several alternate paths too.



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Reply #343 on: October 07, 2011, 09:37:34 PM
[tornado fang], that looks amazing. Is this really the same Sega?



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Reply #344 on: October 07, 2011, 09:44:51 PM
[tornado fang], that looks amazing. Is this really the same Sega?
You mean is this really the same Sonic Team.

Sega, aside from Secret Level and the typical movie franchise crap, doesn't fail in terms of good games.



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Reply #345 on: October 07, 2011, 10:06:09 PM
That looks phenomenal. The way that they're using the 3D to their advantage even in Classic Sonic mode... it looks superb.

OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
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Offline Flame

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Reply #346 on: October 07, 2011, 10:24:22 PM
Didnt Sonic team change people before Unleashed?

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #347 on: October 07, 2011, 10:32:19 PM
Didnt Sonic team change people before Unleashed?
It went through several changes since then. I think the last one was before Colors, and that this is the first game one of the main guys directs.



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Reply #348 on: October 07, 2011, 10:51:32 PM
Wow.  After watching that footage, I definitely believe that Sonic Team's made THE Sonic game that everyone's been waiting for.  I took note of the Classic stage design, and it's great that even though the player fell off the main path, he wasn't careened into a bottomless pit like in some of the more recent titles.  They've finally got the "forgiving challenges" part down pat, and everything in general looks so well designed.  Whatever they're doing now, they need to keep doing it.  This looks like one more reason for me to save up for a PS3.  :)

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Offline Phi

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Reply #349 on: October 07, 2011, 11:42:14 PM
The funny thing is that this stage design could've been used as an entirely new level to the franchise (minus the same almost exact color palette and Death Egg). It didn't have to be "Sky Sanctuary" or built around using the Sonic 3 stage layout as a foundation. It's that good, and I'm impressed to say the least. Colors had some really awesome stage designs as well.