Topic: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

[Align]

Was X5's story all just Inafune's work, though...?

In that case you're presenting the conversation out of context.  If the entire game's localization is shoddy, which it clearly is, then common sense (not so common, I know) dictates that face-value is unreliable.  And face-value is the only way you get "Zero lied and X is a moron".  It's also the same way that one establishes that Erasure was centered around a reploid bathroom.

A single word being exchanged for one that sounds similar is an understandable typo, and not comparable to an insane line being spoken and accepted without question. And while the entire translation is bad, it's more in the sense of being hard to understand than being factually incorrect.

If you want to know why that passage is ridiculed, I'll tell you: Because people see what they want to.  It is the inverse of "Zello", which is to say people assume poor translations where it suits them (Sigma actually was suffering slurred speech), and deny them in the same manner (Zero and X are in the same boat in terms of their surviving X5).  It's not the passage that is being ridiculed, if it was then translation errors would be the first thought to pop up.

I don't know what you're used to, but when I think translation errors I think typos and awkward grammar, not changing the story. It's happened, but it's uncommon.
Though I was surprised to find out people thought Sigma's slurred speech was an error, considering how blatant it was. Sometimes it's just not possible to lay it on thick enough...

What's being ridiculed is the concept of Zero surviving.  X5 showed us both X and Zero as good as dead.  X5 showed us X's creator saving him.  X5 told us Zero's creator was "out there" somewhere.  And X5 told us that three years later (retconned), Zero is still out of the picture.

What happened was that the audience bought into Inafune's negligence sense of finality, and assumed that Wily was content to leave Zero in a scrap heap for a century.  Well, the notion that he wasn't shouldn't be all that surprising, so I'm sure Capcom felt justified in their search for more money.

Then there is to add to that the fans who thought that X should be carrying the series solo. *clears throat* Sorry.

I don't think people would have minded about Zero coming back again if they had just seen an explanation other than "I hid to repair myself".

[Zan]

Was X5's story all just Inafune's work, though...?

The basic premise was his.The way it was executed was the team's derision.

Also, X6 only furthers my idea that Wily is in fact the CEO of Capcom- Inafune wanted the series to end with Zero dead, and Wily doesnt want that! so he had X6 made!

It was the development team that felt the story had so much more potential and thus had to be continued.

I don't know what you're used to, but when I think translation errors I think typos and awkward grammar, not changing the story. It's happened, but it's uncommon.

In videogames, especially Mega Man, it's far more common than you think.

[The Great Gonzo]

In videogames, especially Mega Man, it's far more common than you think.

I was told that most of the "story-changing" in MM (Classic mostly, I think) amounted to fluff. >.>

[Flame]

Define "fluff".

Also, well fine, Wily is part of the dev team then.

[The Great Gonzo]

Define "fluff".

The example I was given was the method by which Dr. Cossack contacted Light in MM4.

[Align]

In videogames, especially Mega Man, it's far more common than you think.

Depressingly true. But all the same, I don't think it's the first thing that comes to mind for the average player when something outrageous is said (or even physically happens, in the case of MM7's ending), since the majority of the plots are left untouched.

[Hypershell]

Was X5's story all just Inafune's work, though...?

Word of god here, via MMXOCW:

"I had very little to do with 'X5.' I just told the team to 'finish off the series with this title,' and left it at that. That's why the game itself has a real feel of finality to it." (Inafune)

A single word being exchanged for one that sounds similar is an understandable typo, and not comparable to an insane line being spoken and accepted without question. And while the entire translation is bad, it's more in the sense of being hard to understand than being factually incorrect.

I believe I have already established that statement as never being proven factually wrong.  What is wrong is the circumstances, which are assumed by the fans, not stated by the game.  X didn't ask Zero how he survived, he asked Zero where he's been.  Two different questions.  Zero's answer is not factually wrong, it is in need of clarification.  Two different problems.

I don't know what you're used to, but when I think translation errors I think typos and awkward grammar, not changing the story. It's happened, but it's uncommon.

There are several "factually wrong" translation errors from X5 alone.  A few more in the games that followed, especially if you count the manuals.

Often times a "typo" may appear coherent and yet change the meaning entirely.  Case in point: Zero1, "Z-Buster"

Though I was surprised to find out people thought Sigma's slurred speech was an error, considering how blatant it was. Sometimes it's just not possible to lay it on thick enough...

Very true.

I don't think people would have minded about Zero coming back again if they had just seen an explanation other than "I hid to repair myself".

When the explanation of how he died is, "the same boss explosion we see over a dozen times per game, while only X is on-screen"?  I don't know about you, but I wasn't expecting much after that.

[Align]

I believe I have already established that statement as never being proven factually wrong.  What is wrong is the circumstances, which are assumed by the fans, not stated by the game.  X didn't ask Zero how he survived, he asked Zero where he's been.  Two different questions.  Zero's answer is not factually wrong, it is in need of clarification.  Two different problems.

As long as it's a problem.

There are several "factually wrong" translation errors from X5 alone.  A few more in the games that followed, especially if you count the manuals.

Important to the plot, too?

When the explanation of how he died is, "the same boss explosion we see over a dozen times per game, while only X is on-screen"?  I don't know about you, but I wasn't expecting much after that.

What scene was that anyway? It's been so long since I played X5 (and I really don't feel like playing it again, ever) that I only remember Zero being shot through the chest after losing his legs somehow.

[Flame]

Important to the plot, too?

Remember X's evil comrade?

What scene was that anyway? It's been so long since I played X5 (and I really don't feel like playing it again, ever) that I only remember Zero being shot through the chest after losing his legs somehow.

Ending. Sigma explodes and talks [parasitic bomb] to X about how he's gonna take Zero down with him. And next scene- we see Zero with no legs and one arm. we have No idea WHERE the hell he was, but even though X was the one right next to Sigma, he gets away with only a few scuff marks and a sore arm.

[Align]

Remember X's evil comrade?

Double?

Ending. Sigma explodes and talks [parasitic bomb] to X about how he's gonna take Zero down with him. And next scene- we see Zero with no legs and one arm. we have No idea WHERE the hell he was, but even though X was the one right next to Sigma, he gets away with only a few scuff marks and a sore arm.

I vaguely recall a scene where Sigma is standing over X with glowing hands, and Zero throwing himself in front of him, is that if you play as Zero or something?

[Flame]

Double?

"Here I am. You can challenge me at anytime. I have delightful news. I've recently acquired a new partner. He has been very supportive. He seems to have created quite a few robots. And he gave me the toughest body that you will ever see. You got here sooner than I expected, so it is not yet complete... But...it is enough to defeat you... He is an excellent partner... I believe you two know each other... In fact, he used to be a comrade of yours. He was very persistent about you... and that makes him very helpful to me. You see X, there is someone other than me...who hates you... Now feel our combined rage and die! ...But not before suffering horribly, ha ha ha! ...Goodbye, X!"

I vaguely recall a scene where Sigma is standing over X with glowing hands, and Zero throwing himself in front of him, is that if you play as Zero or something?

thats if you beat Awakening Zero. The normal scene involves Zero fending off Sigma with his Buster instead of throwing himself in the way.

[dragontamer272]

Hey, I don't hate X6, in fact it's one of my personal favorites in the X Series. X6 in my opinion had one of the BEST Soundtracks in a Mega Man game.

Favorite games from the X Series (in exact order):

#1: X1
#2: X5
#3: X6
#4: X4

[persistentgrunt]

Ways in which X6 > X5
*Alia isn't channelling Navi
*Parts system isn't nearly (NEARLY) as retarded
*X's special weapons seem fun to use
*Shadow Armor > Gaea Armor
*Most bosses don't have ridiculous health (127 HP in X5 at level 96? Really?)

For me, (X4 = X2) > X1 > (X8 = X6) > (X7 = X3) > X5

[Hypershell]

Ways in which X6 > X5
*Alia isn't channelling Navi
*Parts system isn't nearly (NEARLY) as retarded
*X's special weapons seem fun to use
*Shadow Armor > Gaea Armor
*Most bosses don't have ridiculous health (127 HP in X5 at level 96? Really?)

And here I thought I was the only one who noticed that stuff...

To add to that, X5 is easily the most linear game of the X series platformers (it's very obviously designed with an intended order of Grizzly->Rosered), while X6 is by contrast the most open-ended.

And while the Parts distribution is a HUGE issue with X5, it actually goes further than that.  Even the typical stuff like Heart Tanks and Armor capsules are badly done, with many of them being completely inaccessible as Zero.  The Gaea Armor is absolutely impossible to obtain without having visited every stage, and of those stages that didn't have Gaea Armor parts, defeating all but one of them (Volt Kraken/Squid Adler).

In X6 you could get EVERYTHING without obtaining a single Maverick weapon.  As either X or Zero.  In no other X game can you do that without password hacking or New Game Plus (or, more recently, giving Capcom extra money).

[Jericho]

How interesting that this thread gets bumped when I'm nearing a completion of the game again. I really really think that if some of the receptional issues weren't present and the translation were better, this game would be one of the strongest X titles beside X1 & X4. There are a few genuinely broken things in the game usually involving screen scrolling jumps and leaps of faith, but that's nothing a tweak in the system couldn't fix.

The game has multiple manners through which you can reach its conclusions both in a single level sense and on a greater level, the best secondary armor in the series, overpowered ass Zero, a great sense of scale with the multiple enemy barrages without making you feel like you're overloaded or can't deal with everything around you, a really awesome story line, the absolute best portrayal of X in the series, plays off of one of the greater intrigues in the series with the Wily/Zero angle and introduced an antagonist that had every ounce of potential possible. I mean seriously, who else before the Zero series got that close to not only understanding X & Zero, but managed to weaponize the Reploid DNA altering aspects of the latter's code, something intrinsically linked in concept to what Cyber Elves do in the successor series?

There are times where my inner fan gets pissed off that the Maverick Hunter X line continues to stay dormant, X6 has the absolute highest potential for awesome if it were ever revisited and "fixed", let alone given any further supplemental material similar to the Day of Sigma OVA.

[Satoryu]

The Gaea Armor is absolutely impossible to obtain without having visited every stage

Not true. The two parts that the game wants you to use the Falcon Armor for can actually be gotten in other ways. Spike Rosered's capsule can be reached with either Zero's double jump and Jumper or, as in this recent TAS that gets everything only as X, Wing Spiral and Nova Strike.

As for Spiral Pegacion's, Zero to the rescue again. Hyper Dash is absolutely required, but I'm not sure if Jumper is necessary.

I'm kinda ashamed I know this much about X5.

[Hypershell]

Technically, yes, but the requirement of Jumper in Rosered's stage makes it impossible to obtain Speedster, which is ABSURDLY useful with the Falcon Armor; nobody in their right mind would give that up if they want to be using X primarily.  I'm aware of Zero's access to both capsules, however they require quite a bit of prep work, part sacrifices, and mad physics exploits in Skiver/Pegasus's case (respawning the same enemy repeatedly).  And there's still no getting around the need to kill Grizzly (at high rank for Hyper Dash), and Firefly for Necrobat's capsule, so even if deliberately trying to obtain Gaea early you have it for two stages, tops, at the expense of handicapping your other options.

I will admit that Wing Spiral's abuse was news to me, but I'd be curious if that works without Nova Strike (which is only available that early by both cheating and foregoing the Z-Buster).

[Satoryu]

You do know you can get the Ultimate Armor and Black Zero legit, right?

And yeah, Falcon is [tornado fang]ing broken and fun with Speedster. But in a speedrun that used those tricks, Falcon would be rendered useless.

[Police Girl]

You do know you can get the Ultimate Armor and Black Zero legit, right?

(which is only available that early by both cheating and foregoing the Z-Buster).

He means before Zero Virus Stage 3.

[Treleus]

How in the blue blazing [tornado fang] is the Shadow Armor better than the Gaea Armor?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_zO2drYRDo&feature=related[/youtube]

Can't do that [parasitic bomb] with the Shadow Armor!

[Nexus]

Perhaps one of my issues with X6 is the relative lack of explanation (aside from a manual) of the Nightmare Effects. Sure, common gaming sense/knowledge dictates that if a level is highlighted with red on the selection screen, you probably shouldn't choose it or should be cautious. Until you go into what seems like an unaffected level and then there's Nightmare Blocks on Metal Shark Player's stage or falling fireball spam all over the place on Blizzard Wolfgang's stage. Granted, some of these result from defeating one of the other Mavericks beforehand, but it's really just trial-and-error in figuring out how to approach the least 'in the way' effects. Add in the fact that the game can be hit-or-miss with difficulty at times, and sometimes it'll just seem like things are happening for practically no reason at all.

Also the fact that probably some of the very little character development/backstory that Alia gets in the entire series and a flat-out explanation of why Gate's doing what he's doing (he does some minor explanation, but doesn't really delve into it), is reserved for grinding 3000 Nightmare Souls - something no player would probably reasonably do unless they knew about it beforehand or figured that, for some reason, replaying things to constantly collect more and more Nightmare Souls will pay off somehow (which it does, in that you can equip more parts the more souls you collect overall; was this noted in the manual?). You get a clip of Alia in a scientist garb alongside Gate at the credits, and X notes that he's her colleague which gets the emphasis across (not to mention the X version of the scene before the Gate's Lab stages are unlocked), but still.

[Hypershell]

Parts/Souls connection is noted in-game, so yeah, that's a pretty good reason to grind for 'em.  Alia mentions Gate in the post-Maverick messages a lot, and she also confronts him directly before his levels if playing as Zero, and briefly addresses him after the first laboratory stage as either character.

The Nightmare System is definitely one of X6's weaker points, but it's far from a deal-breaker IMHO.  The only one that really irritates me is Mijinion's spotlight effect.  The rest are minor annoyances, and two of them (MSP's blocks and Heatnix's fireballs) can actually be helpful.

Can't do that [parasitic bomb] with the Shadow Armor!

While the Gaea Armor's anti-boss engine of destruction is quite possibly one of the most under-appreciated qualities of the series, Shadow Armor can bust one hell of a lot of heads in its own right.  Ultimate Buster, Overdrive, and your ever-trusty Giga Attack will dismantle pretty much anything.

Although if you want a REALLY satisfying/humiliating win, take Ultimate Armor against High Max.  "No chance to lose" indeed.

If there's one single thing I love above all else in X6, it's that victory was damn well satisfying.  There's a tremendous difference between how powerful you are at the start and how powerful you can potentially become, far more so than in the other games, and it nicely compliments the unusually high challenge, making you feel that you have overcome great obstacles and relish in how badass you are compared to a couple of hours ago.  I certainly cannot say the same thing for a game that ends with half of Zero's body vaporizing when he wasn't even on screen to begin with.

[Zan]

I certainly cannot say the same thing for a game that ends with half of Zero's body vaporizing when he wasn't even on screen to begin with.

Why mix gameplay and story?

[The Great Gonzo]

Why mix gameplay and story?

Because gameplay can affect how one interprets the story?

[AquaTeamV3]

Why mix gameplay and story?

Because it can throw you off otherwise.  It took me a while to figure out that the boss explosion was the thing that damaged Zero, as the game doesn't really make it that clear (and truth be told, it doesn't really make sense).  Simply putting Zero's sprite on screen at that moment would've made it a little clearer.  The whole Soul Body thing after the X/Zero fight took me a while to catch too, though that's because I never noticed it flying towards me during the boss explosion.   Honestly, storytelling isn't exactly X5's strong suit.