Topic: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

[Zan]

Especially compared to a good-guy character (Zero) outright lying (repaired himself) on-screen, which is really rare.

He wasn't lying. He was mistranslated.

[Reaperoid]

But one thing always bothers the fandom, where the [parasitic bomb] is Wily and what exactly is his plan?

He's out there somewhere, I guess. His plan is to give Right his comeuppance

Wily: Zero...
Zero: Who are you?
Wily: My masterpiece...
Zero: But... who are you?
Wily: After him! He is my nemesis. Our rivalry is what gives me motivation in life. Now go!
Destroy him! That's an order.

Zero is basically like [youtube]IVcEHQ5E2O4[/youtube]

[Flame]

Zero needs to hire a better translator.

[The Great Gonzo]

You know, looking back at that "repaired myself/waited 'til I recovered" bit. I may be wrong, but US-Zero could be referring to self-repair systems; in a way, that could mean the same thing as what was originally said.

[slayer]

But one thing always bothers the fandom, where the [parasitic bomb] is Wily and what exactly is his plan?

plot holes, capcom lives from plot holes

[Align]

He wasn't lying. He was mistranslated.

That just shifts the blame from the writers to the translators.

You know, looking back at that "repaired myself/waited 'til I recovered" bit. I may be wrong, but US-Zero could be referring to self-repair systems; in a way, that could mean the same thing as what was originally said.

I always thought of it that way, but it's not much less preposterous than taking a wrench with his one arm and fixing the rest of his body. Nanites can do an awful lot but they're not magical...

[The Great Gonzo]

That just shifts the blame from the writers to the translators.

Seriously--I don't think ALL of the X series story's problems can be blamed on "mistranslations" (or perhaps "shoddy localization").

I was thinking the other night--you know how a lot of the story is inaccessible to us? Maybe the translators and localizers didn't have it either. Not very fair to blame them for divergences if that's the case.

but it's not much less preposterous than taking a wrench with his one arm and fixing the rest of his body. Nanites can do an awful lot but they're not magical...

Not too out of place next to X being saved by deus ex machina, though, is it?

[Flame]

not having accesss is no excuse to just completely rewrite entire story scripts and badly translate things. Its not relevant at all in fact. Not unless Capcom USA was making their own Mega man X game.

Also, While light may be, nanties are not deus ex machinas. No self repair system can repair THAT kind of damage.

i always took it as Zero just lying to not make X worry over mysterious revivals.

And X being sappy enough to buy it. Somehow.

[The Great Gonzo]

not having accesss is no excuse to just completely rewrite entire story scripts and badly translate things. Its not relevant at all in fact.

What if it couldn't be helped, though? Maybe the translators did a competent job, and the localizers refined it (for lack of a better word) without knowing there was something else to the story that wasn't the same as what they came up with?

And yet it's all the translators' fault for not being clairvoyant?

Also, IIRC a few changed words does not equal "total story script rewrite". All of these accusations of mistranslating just feel really knee-jerk to me now.

[Align]

To be honest, if they don't get it right they aren't doing their job as professional translators.
Carpe Fulgur (2 people) has one guy that knows japanese well and one that writes english well. The translated script goes back and forth between them to make it well-written but also correct, and they make sure to consult the original writers about tone and intent etc. What excuse does Capcom have, to be any worse than 2 semi-amateur guys?
Although that last doesn't apply much to their modern day work, and I suppose there just weren't that many jp-speaking people back when X6 was ported.

[The Great Gonzo]

Eh, good point, I guess. But I was also talking about localizers, not just translators.

What excuse does Capcom have, to be any worse than 2 semi-amateur guys?

Maybe CoJ just didn't bother telling them anything about tone, intent etc. Wouldn't surprise me.

[Reaperoid]

Providing the localisers know the context of what they're working on, in which case part of the deal would be writing the english script in context to how they interpret the game's events.

[Hypershell]

A hologram being projected isn't all that surprising

It is when there's nothing to project from.  For five games straight the hologram has appeared only within capsules, never free-roaming.

and the physical actions happen off-screen

Double-standard.  You just named the exact problem everyone has with Zero's revival.

Which is even more preposterous when you think about the fact that X's "creator/avatar thereof" lacks any physical limbs to do salvage and repair work, while Zero's "creator/avatar thereof" freely interacts with the real world.

i always took it as Zero just lying to not make X worry over mysterious revivals.

And X being sappy enough to buy it. Somehow.

I'm sure Zero still required a few touch-ups after he woke up (why else wouldn't he have surfaced beforehand?).  He's not lying, it's just that he himself only knows part of the story, so that's all he can tell.  He's not saying "this is how I survived", he's saying "this is what I was doing after I had legs again".

It's not that X doesn't realize this, either, it's that he's in the same boat.  Neither X nor Zero knew for sure how they survived.  Zero took a shot in the dark and said that Light fixed them.  He was half right.

Seriously--I don't think ALL of the X series story's problems can be blamed on "mistranslations"

Of course not.  No translator is responsible for X5's ranking system completely contradicting the default ranks of X and Zero (you are literally punished for killing enemies and yet X gets shafted for disliking combat).

No translator is responsible for the complete absence of any explanation as to why Sigma is supposedly dead for good after his skull takes a Z-Buster to the face.

No translator is responsible for the fact that this "other person" who hates X did jack [parasitic bomb] about it for four games since.

No translator is responsible for the fact that X gets a few scuff marks from the same explosion that vaporized half of Zero's body, regardless of whether or not said explosion happens directly in front of X's face while Zero was in some nearby hallway.

No translator is responsible for defining "finality" as "kill the co-star and nobody will give a crap about the blue guy."

[Flame]

No translator is responsible for defining "finality" as "kill the co-star and nobody will give a crap about the blue guy."

This. Just... This. Inafune's idea of "finality" is pretty far from final. And leaves more questions than it answers. (Zero's very death, EG the very 'finality' itself)

[Align]

It is when there's nothing to project from.  For five games straight the hologram has appeared only within capsules, never free-roaming.

I didn't mean it made sense to the player as in "what is canon", more in the way of "I guess that would work, even in the real world". It doesn't hurt the suspension of disbelief.

Double-standard.  You just named the exact problem everyone has with Zero's revival.

I'm taking care to note this as something that mostly concerns players who don't think a step beyond the surface (which is embarrassingly frequently the case for me, myself) - as the problem isn't in what actually happens, but what the player sees.
The player doesn't actually see Light repair X, it's just more-than-strongly implied. But s/he WILL see Zero claim to have repaired himself, which is at best improbable (he was a torso and an arm), at worst impossible (he was dead.).

I'm sure Zero still required a few touch-ups after he woke up (why else wouldn't he have surfaced beforehand?).  He's not lying, it's just that he himself only knows part of the story, so that's all he can tell.  He's not saying "this is how I survived", he's saying "this is what I was doing after I had legs again".

It's not that X doesn't realize this, either, it's that he's in the same boat.  Neither X nor Zero knew for sure how they survived.  Zero took a shot in the dark and said that Light fixed them.  He was half right.

An interesting interpretation, and it looks perfectly valid, but certainly not something that came to mind when I saw the exchange.

[Hypershell]

I'm taking care to note this as something that mostly concerns players who don't think a step beyond the surface (which is embarrassingly frequently the case for me, myself) - as the problem isn't in what actually happens, but what the player sees.
The player doesn't actually see Light repair X, it's just more-than-strongly implied. But s/he WILL see Zero claim to have repaired himself, which is at best improbable (he was a torso and an arm), at worst impossible (he was dead.).

The player also sees Zero ask Light if he knows who repaired him.

Is that dialogue optional, and possible to miss?  Certainly.  But so is X and Zero's reunion in and of itself.  For that matter, so is Light repairing X in X5 (play as Zero, and X is believed to be dead), which is not referenced in X6 outside of the above-mentioned conversation between Light and Zero.

Incidentally, the one who repaired Zero is also implied, though never stated, within X6.

[Align]

The player also sees Zero ask Light if he knows who repaired him.

Is that dialogue optional, and possible to miss?  Certainly.  But so is X and Zero's reunion in and of itself.  For that matter, so is Light repairing X in X5 (play as Zero, and X is believed to be dead), which is not referenced in X6 outside of the above-mentioned conversation between Light and Zero.

True enough. But finding the Light capsule as Zero takes more know-how than finding Zero. And if you found the capsule as X at any point, you cannot see that conversation unless you play the game again. Even then, that doesn't guarantee you'll see it.

Might be more personal opinion, but I'd also say it's poor design to not even hint that a lie has been spoken in a conversation (with a few exceptions like setting up for a big Reveal much later in the story, which is not the case here), and with X & Zero they seem to just accept what's being said without questions nor hesitation.
If we go with your alternate interpretation instead of the common "lie" one, I feel that the meaning is too subtle and rephrasing is needed.

[Hypershell]

True enough. But finding the Light capsule as Zero takes more know-how than finding Zero. And if you found the capsule as X at any point, you cannot see that conversation unless you play the game again. Even then, that doesn't guarantee you'll see it.

Literally every X game in existence requires, to some degree, multiple playthroughs if you want to view all dialogue.  The immediate predecessor, X5, took that to a greater extent than ever before, in addition to well establishing Zero and Light having some interesting conversations.  It shouldn't be any far stretch that those interested in what happened to Zero in X6 might actually want to play as him (nevermind the benefits of the awesomely broken Z-Buster).

If we go with your alternate interpretation instead of the common "lie" one, I feel that the meaning is too subtle and rephrasing is needed.

X6 localize...not amazing...

Remember what game we're talking about; the whole damn thing needs rephrasing.  And besides, didn't Zan already tackle the phrasing of that particular conversation last page?

[Align]

So? What we've been talking about this whole time is whether it's surprising that people ridiculed that passage in the translation, and that it desperately needed work. Not that it was the only flaw of the game, or that it was the fault of the original writers.

[Hypershell]

In that case you're presenting the conversation out of context.  If the entire game's localization is shoddy, which it clearly is, then common sense (not so common, I know) dictates that face-value is unreliable.  And face-value is the only way you get "Zero lied and X is a moron".  It's also the same way that one establishes that Erasure was centered around a reploid bathroom.

If you want to know why that passage is ridiculed, I'll tell you: Because people see what they want to.  It is the inverse of "Zello", which is to say people assume poor translations where it suits them (Sigma actually was suffering slurred speech), and deny them in the same manner (Zero and X are in the same boat in terms of their surviving X5).  It's not the passage that is being ridiculed, if it was then translation errors would be the first thought to pop up.  What's being ridiculed is the concept of Zero surviving.  X5 showed us both X and Zero as good as dead.  X5 showed us X's creator saving him.  X5 told us Zero's creator was "out there" somewhere.  And X5 told us that three years later (retconned), Zero is still out of the picture.

What happened was that the audience bought into Inafune's negligence sense of finality, and assumed that Wily was content to leave Zero in a scrap heap for a century.  Well, the notion that he wasn't shouldn't be all that surprising, so I'm sure Capcom felt justified in their search for more money.

Then there is to add to that the fans who thought that X should be carrying the series solo. *clears throat* Sorry.

[The Great Gonzo]

It's also the same way that one establishes that Erasure was centered around a reploid bathroom.

Am I the only person who thinks this might be just a typo? A really bad one?

[Flame]

It is a typo, Gonz. He's making a point.

Also, X6 only furthers my idea that Wily is in fact the CEO of Capcom- Inafune wanted the series to end with Zero dead, and Wily doesnt want that! so he had X6 made!

Which brings me to another thing. The hell, Inafune's idea of finality involves KILLING off his favorite character while X, whom he constantly tries to 1up, lives?

[Protoman Blues]

The hell, Inafune's idea of finality involves KILLING off his favorite character while X, whom he constantly tries to 1up, lives?

Sounds like Japanese storytelling to me.

[Flame]

Sounds about right.

[Blackhook]

YOu usually kill off someone you´d miss the most to leave an impact