Topic: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

[Flame]

They are still there though. Also, I dont see how Isoc claiming to have seen Zero alive is missable when it is part of a story scene.

[Zan]

The problem is mistranslation more than anything. Zero more than makes clear that the circumstances of his revival are similar to X's.

Zero: In the short time I’ve been away, people think so much less of me they associate me with a toy like this…
X: …Zero? Zero, you’re alive?
Zero: [sighs] So are you, X, aren’t you?
To begin with, we’re not going to let the likes of Sigma do us in… am I right?
X: I searched… but I couldn’t find anything… no data response… no parts… so…
Zero: Sorry to cause you worry. I lay low until I was fully recovered from the damage.
Meanwhile it looks like this “toy” was stirring up a fuss.

[Align]

....

Not really...

I can kinda see how that could be implied by that exchange, but more than anything it looks like some sort of meta-humour.
Anyway, I thought you had to be playing as Zero to see Isoc mention Zero being alive? Or was that in the intro? I always figured he was talking about the Nightmare copies.

[Zan]

....

Not really...

I can kinda see how that could be implied by that exchange, but more than anything it looks like some sort of meta-humour.

Zero brushes off X's question by saying the circumstances are the same. If X survived, so did Zero. It's as easy as that. They do address that Zero's body vanished, leaving nothing to be found.

Anyway, I thought you had to be playing as Zero to see Isoc mention Zero being alive? Or was that in the intro? I always figured he was talking about the Nightmare copies.

It's said when X beats one investigator. Good luck getting Zero that early.

Gate:    By the way, did you find what you’re looking for?
I doubt it exists anywhere in the world…
Isoc:    No, that's not so. I saw it…
And he’s not the sort of low-ranked Repliroid who would die so easily…
Gate:    X and he are certainly tough guys. So he may be alive… though the chance is low.
Isoc:    I will find him without fail.
Gate:    Hmph. It doesn’t matter to me.
Do as you please. I don’t need… the “true Zero”.
Just make sure you take care of X and that experiment.
Isoc:    Yessir.

Only the talk between Dr. Right and Zero capsule is easily missed.

Right:    Zero… you’re safe?
Zero:    …I won’t die. --is what I’d like to say. But my memory is vague… I don’t know if my recovery function revived me, or somebody picked me up… The next thing I knew, I was able to move…
Right:    …The world still needs both X and you… Isn’t that why you revived?
And you must put an end to this nightmare…
Sorry, I’d like you to pass this armor program on to X…

Right:    X, Zero. I’m praying for your safety.

Zero:    Please wait! Was it you who rescued X?
Right:    …………
Zero:    Do you know anything about who rescued me?
Right:    I really don’t know anything. Forgive me.
Didn’t X call it a truly miraculous return?
Zero:    If there’s anything you know about me…
Right:    Zero, I’m sorry…I can’t even analyze you…
Zero:    I see… I’ll pass the program on to X…

[Align]

Zero brushes off X's question by saying the circumstances are the same. If X survived, so did Zero. It's as easy as that. Do remember in X5 that Zero's body vanished.

Well yeah, but it'd be more easily understood if X's body had vanished as well. I mean, of course X is alive, that's not really unexpected at all.

[Zan]

I mean, of course X is alive, that's not really unexpected at all.

Signas: It truly is a miracle... Not only did he come back... but without so much as even a scratch!
Douglas: It's hard to repair the bodies of X and Zero because they're still a mystery...
Alia: It's not a miracle, I bet...
Signas: You never believe it's a "miracle"...
Alia: I'm not interested in miracles... I don't think Reploids dream of miracles, either...

[Align]

When is that seen?

[Zan]

X5 ending, Zero Awakened.

[Align]

If it had been in X6 I might've agreed that the conversation made the implication obvious.

[Hypershell]

Well yeah, but it'd be more easily understood if X's body had vanished as well. I mean, of course X is alive, that's not really unexpected at all.

You're only saying that because X's name is in the title.

X and Zero were in the exact same battle in X5.  The circumstances behind their damage were the same.  X is repaired by his creator.  Zero is seen by X before X is shot, yet Zero is not found after X is repaired.

So what do you THINK that means?

X6's opening shows that they both went up against Sigma and states that they "barely escaped with their lives".  If you are unfamiliar with the scenario beyond that then you are in no position to judge.  You can't gauge how plausible a given scenario is if you don't know the setup.  In fact, ignorance of X5 actually works in the player's favor, since only X5 when taken alone suggests the idea that Zero was dead rather than missing at all.  Even so, nobody bothers to take notice that in X5, X is only alive due to deus ex machina.

[The Great Gonzo]

Even so, nobody bothers to take notice that in X5, X is only alive due to deus ex machina.

I noticed! Of course, my memories of reading about that are fuzzy...

[Flame]

Without Light, he would have died. Rather- stayed dead. Pretty sure he was already dead by the time Light repairs him.

[Hypershell]

"Dead" can be a very vague term when it comes to artificial life forms.  You could utterly vaporize the body while its memory is backed up in external storage (Mega Man Juno), or the body could be completely intact while the brain collapses on itself due to an internal error (Iris).

[Flame]

I suppose. Normally I would classify Death in the Mega man universe as when the body is destroyed, but then we have X, who is still floating around while his body is still actually live. Though by that I guess you could consider him disembodied instead. But would that mean he is technically "dead" for real once Elpis destroys his body?

Although having his memory backed up doesnt make Juno's death any less dead. All it means is he can be given a new body and revived. In iris' case, her program failed and she died that way. I take it the same way Humans can die. either the body stops functioning, or the brain does. either means death, and for reploids, similar is true. If their bodies are destroyed, despite being able to be revived, they still are considered to have died. Zero for example- his body was destroyed, but his control chip survived intact. But he was still considered dead.

I suppose it depends on the situation, and the artificial lifeform in question.  Way I see it, if their body or mind dies, they are dead. The likes of Phantom, X are more akin to ghosts.

Doesnt Phantom mention something in regards to the matter? im too lazy to go look.

[Hypershell]

Phantom is a "mere soul" that drifted into Cyberspace.  He has no presence in the substance world unless you have e-Reader cards.  ...or if you're observing retconned artwork.

Posted on: August 05, 2011, 10:21:44 PM

I take it the same way Humans can die. either the body stops functioning, or the brain does. either means death, and for reploids, similar is true. If their bodies are destroyed, despite being able to be revived, they still are considered to have died. Zero for example- his body was destroyed, but his control chip survived intact. But he was still considered dead.

I suppose it depends on the situation, and the artificial lifeform in question.  Way I see it, if their body or mind dies, they are dead.

Naturally "death" of an artificial life refers to "non-functional", however when a person is "non-functional" temporarily, they are considered seriously ill or injured, not dead and revived.

"Death" refers to "permanently non-functional", and the ambiguity strikes when you consider that programs can be copied and machines can be rebuilt.  A human may reach a point where he/she has lost consciousness and will die if left untreated; for a robot drawing that line is a bit trickier.  Under what circumstances would you call a robot comatose rather than dead?  What about losing consciousness due to shock from serious injury?

That's about where X and Zero are in X5.  You could say they "escaped with their lives" in that their creators can repair them, or you could call them "dead" in that they're both inactive and damaged beyond the help of any "modern medicine".

[Flame]

Oh what a tangled web we weave etc etc

[Align]

You're only saying that because X's name is in the title.

And because I've played as him up to that point in the game, so I've only seen things from his perspective.

X and Zero were in the exact same battle in X5.  The circumstances behind their damage were the same.  X is repaired by his creator.  Zero is seen by X before X is shot, yet Zero is not found after X is repaired.

So what do you THINK that means?

X6's opening shows that they both went up against Sigma and states that they "barely escaped with their lives".  If you are unfamiliar with the scenario beyond that then you are in no position to judge.  You can't gauge how plausible a given scenario is if you don't know the setup.  In fact, ignorance of X5 actually works in the player's favor, since only X5 when taken alone suggests the idea that Zero was dead rather than missing at all.  Even so, nobody bothers to take notice that in X5, X is only alive due to deus ex machina.

My problem isn't believing that Zero was mysteriously missing and repaired by an unknown entity, it was that "So are you X. So are you." isn't enough on its own to make this clear.
Of course, if it replaces the "I hid while I repaired myself" thing we english-speakers got, that's a good step on its own...

EDIT: But looking at Zan's post now, it seems I was either hallucinating last night or he edited it, and it looks rather more helpful now. Different source of translation?

[Zan]

I edited it with the actual translation instead of going by memory.

[Hypershell]

And because I've played as him up to that point in the game, so I've only seen things from his perspective.
My problem isn't believing that Zero was mysteriously missing and repaired by an unknown entity, it was that "So are you X. So are you." isn't enough on its own to make this clear.
Of course, if it replaces the "I hid while I repaired myself" thing we english-speakers got, that's a good step on its own...

We in the U.S. saw a reference to auto-repair way back in X1.  And we know Zero isn't the talkative type when it comes to mysterious scientists.  His conversations with Light show that he knows someone repaired him but doesn't know who that someone is.  He wasn't lying when he said that he's been hiding, either.

I'll admit there's a lot that can be read between the lines with that scenario, however background information being absent from the games is pretty par for the course with the X-series.  X6 didn't come CLOSE to starting that.

X2 - Heavy Sigma Virus involvement, particularly with Magna Centipede's stage.
X4 - Iris and Colonel.
X5 - Zero Space.

[Align]

It's certainly not the first instance, but it's still a flaw to leave it unexplained... and unlike those you mentioned, this one is fairly major since it's right at the surface where even casual players who don't stop and think more deeply about the game will spot it.

[AquaTeamV3]

The fun part is entering Sigma's final stage by selecting Magna Centipede's!

[Hypershell]

It's certainly not the first instance, but it's still a flaw to leave it unexplained... and unlike those you mentioned, this one is fairly major since it's right at the surface where even casual players who don't stop and think more deeply about the game will spot it.

Zero Space is every bit as "at the surface", when you consider it's our only justification of why Light can operate outside of a capsule.

[slayer]

honestly every game is the same, fun 2d action, but when the game is good people care about plot, maybe that`s anger many people (me included) i dont hate the game, i prefer this than mmz anytime, is just i really wanted to see what happen with the original megaman and dr. wily, and this i think is the factor that "Doomed" the game....welll i think

[Align]

Zero Space is every bit as "at the surface", when you consider it's our only justification of why Light can operate outside of a capsule.

A hologram being projected isn't all that surprising, and the physical actions happen off-screen, so I don't think the average player is going to think much about that being a problem. Especially compared to a good-guy character (Zero) outright lying (repaired himself) on-screen, which is really rare.

[Waifu]

But one thing always bothers the fandom, where the [parasitic bomb] is Wily and what exactly is his plan?