Do you like Axl?

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Offline Hypershell

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Reply #25 on: July 04, 2010, 07:47:17 AM
MegaMan and story closure?  Right.

If they learned ANYTHING after X5 it was, God willing, to stop writing themselves into a corner unless they are damn sure their spiritual successor can measure up (such as Z4 to ZX).

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Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #26 on: July 04, 2010, 07:48:15 AM
Haha, I said ideally :P


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Reply #27 on: July 04, 2010, 07:54:11 AM
Axl? hes ok. I have to however, respond to the Dynamo = X plus Zero in a blender... Axl isnt much better off in that respect either.

as to Zero, theres always the "the connection to wily was planned since the beginning"

So while Zero being made by Wily might not have been on the table during X1, by X2, it most definitely was decided. they put in Serges and that Sigma line about him being the last Wily number, and then in X4, outright told us.

Also, on the inafuneless X series bit, X3 isnt exactly the best example of X series either. I love it to death, but it DOES have that large empty room syndrome, or large rooms with only hordes of tiny enemies. The same few enemies were repeated in every stage... the PSX versions controversial music and inconsistant intro animation...

Axl was ok. its more the GAME that is X7 that causes hate, because he was introduced as an X clone without a charge shot, and with a crappy transformation gimmick.
in X8, he was much better, if a bit too Bass, and had the different weapons with different shot types gig. in Command Mission, well, thats a different playstyle, but they played on the idea of his specials being transformations, which is what his special weapons should always have been. Storywise though... Hes a NG prototype, but it hasnt gone beyond that, and isnt as remotely interesting as it could be, in comparison with X or Zero's stories. Perhaps if they dug more into his past, instead of relegating him as nothing more than the one New Gen who ISNT maverick because hes a prototype, he would be more intruiging. Command mission took that track a bit, with him on Gigantis searching for clues as to his origins, and then getting mixed up in X's adventure, eventually finding that the rumers of copy chip production and research were of the second wave of New Gens, Redips and his men. Command Mission Axl IMO was more interesting to me storywise than X7 or 8.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline GameDragon

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Reply #28 on: July 04, 2010, 07:55:18 AM
Just to touch on this, since I didn't in my previous post.

I think the way they're planning it, which may not have been intentional from the beginning, it looks like they are going for sets of three. X1-3 was mainly X centric, and showing X's growing potential. X4-6 was mainly Zero centric, revealing the Wily connection, and Wily's continued presence. X7-8 so far have been very Axl centric, with his appearance along with the copy chips.

I think they're trying to do it in sets of three. 1-3 X, 4-6 Zero, 7-9 Axl, and ideally a 10 just to tie up all the lose ends and bring it to a finale ending where all characters reach their final conclusive story closure.

From a plot point, you're 100% right. But I also felt Axl overshadowed X in terms of gameplay too. Going by X8, X automatically loses his uniqueness by not being the only playable ranged hunter. On top of that, Axl being able to fire repeatedly and in multiple directions, as well as having the extra ability to hover and roll makes X pretty much worthless. Even more, Axl can also use his weapons an infinite amount of time. It's not until X can fire giant lasers (Icarus Armor) that he's anywhere close to Axl's level.



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #29 on: July 04, 2010, 08:01:36 AM
Having also replayed X8 recently, I can say that is not the case. X having the ability to use vastly different types of special weapons,where as Axl uses mostly very similar types, along with his armor abilities makes him play a fair deal different than Axl. On top of that X is a lot more mobile than Axl is in general, and he can attack while moving.


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Reply #30 on: July 04, 2010, 08:06:30 AM
Agreed.  And seriously, to hell with specials, NOBODY could ever call Hermes head + Icarus buster worthless.

Even by default, though, X stands up to Axl pretty well given the huge power of his charged shots and his mobility while firing.  Also, while Axl's delayed barrier activation against bosses give his default weapon high damage; his specials don't give him the same benefit, leaving X superior if you have the appropriate weakness available.  The only thing that really makes unarmored X a bit of an underdog is that X relies on armor for the 1/2 damage benefit, whereas everyone else gets chip upgrades.  But then it's a pretty unfair comparison to allow one upgrade variety and disallow another.  Unless you're Alia; she's up the creek.

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Reply #31 on: July 04, 2010, 08:11:57 AM
But she has BOOOBS!!!

And nice ones too! :P

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Reply #32 on: July 04, 2010, 08:12:55 AM
No argument here.  I maintain that her wardrobe change signals an imminent blitz on X, that poor oblivious fool.

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Reply #33 on: July 04, 2010, 08:31:44 AM
I Wonder...Was Axl Meant to be a Girl?...or isn't it obvious he sounded like one?

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Reply #34 on: July 04, 2010, 08:34:20 AM
I never thought he sounded like a girl, in fact except for Zero I could easily tell which characters were guys.  As for Axl I like him, his intresting personality balances X and Zero's pretty well to me.

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Offline Rin

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Reply #35 on: July 04, 2010, 12:08:00 PM
I think those two shitty shortfics I wrote and posted in my thread, best summarize what I think of Axl.
Crap, now I want to write a sequel. DAMNN YOU PEOPLE!

Anyway, he's quite useful in X8 actually. I always pick him and Zero.



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Reply #36 on: July 04, 2010, 12:31:48 PM
Axl > X when it comes to usefulness. 8 direction shooting, stun locking, hovering and shooting, infinite specials... yeah. Not to mention no pansy ism and all that.



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Reply #37 on: July 04, 2010, 05:44:30 PM
Pansyism is mainly an issue in X7.  It is considerably less so in X8 and near nonexistant in XCM.  Heck, Zero throws worse fits in XCM than X does.

Infinite specials is nice, but they're all pretty redundant.  It's the same omnidirectional rapid-fire mold simply with different shot effects, kinda kills Axl's variety.  He is useful though, and I think in particular he owes a lot of that to his hover-while-firing mechanics.  That is EXTREMELY valuable for a rapid-fire character.  I grew to miss it a lot while playing as Bass in MM10 (MM&B is more permissible due to the larger character size in relation to screen size).

One thing I liked about the X7 Axl, though, was the G-Launcher.  It's like taking the Ultimate Buster and sticking it in a rifle.  Definite win.  It does make me want to hold onto the alternate-weapons shpiel.  I just don't think they should be the basis of all of his special weapons from bosses.

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Reply #38 on: July 04, 2010, 06:09:25 PM
Quote
If they ever felt like re-introducing Wily, making Axl into Zero's little brother would make a surprising amount of sense.  Copy Chips leading to the elimination of Sigma and all. 

I don't think it would make sense from the perspective of virus immunity. X and Zero have their own perfect/near perfect virus countermeasures in response to the Roboenza incident. Axl too has such an ability, different from X and Zero's, but like X and Zero in that its something the world hadn't seen before. At the same time, Axl has attributes of both X and Zero; variations of weapon copy and learning ability... As it is, I think it's almost appropriate to start giving Cossack more credit...



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Reply #39 on: July 04, 2010, 06:26:37 PM

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Offline Thanatos-Zero

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Reply #40 on: July 04, 2010, 08:09:38 PM
I don't think it would make sense from the perspective of virus immunity. X and Zero have their own perfect/near perfect virus countermeasures in response to the Roboenza incident. Axl too has such an ability, different from X and Zero's, but like X and Zero in that its something the world hadn't seen before. At the same time, Axl has attributes of both X and Zero; variations of weapon copy and learning ability... As it is, I think it's almost appropriate to start giving Cossack more credit...
Then it is time to ask Word of God Inafune about Axl's origins. Although I would love if he is created by the hands of Dr. Mikhail Cossack, it wouldn't matter me at all, if he wasn't. Instead there might be the chance that Gate created Axl.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 02:56:45 PM by Thanatos-Zero »



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Reply #41 on: July 04, 2010, 09:42:59 PM
Well, there are plenty of possibilities, I was just naming one.  If we wanted to get really obscure, you could tie him to the Erasure and Berkana, stealing DNA for advanced power-ups and all, and the "revival" of sorts that an outright copy allows.

Gate might be oddly convenient too, in light of the mysteriously-pulled ZC timeline.  If we are to hold that as valid, then we DO need some reason to re-investigate the Nightmare post-XCM.  Plus he's got the whole DNA-manipulation vibe covered in Metal Shark Player.

It's very well possible that even on Capcom's end, Axl's origins may not have been set in stone yet.  Certainly the little information that has been released still leaves that part of the story very open.

I don't think it would make sense from the perspective of virus immunity. X and Zero have their own perfect/near perfect virus countermeasures in response to the Roboenza incident.
It's not really a matter of immunity, though, rather it's a matter of setting Sigma up.  I mean, all implications at this point suggest that the Sigma Virus outlives Sigma himself anyway.  From Wily's perspective that's awfully convenient.

Quote
Axl has attributes of both X and Zero; variations of weapon copy and learning ability...
Duo, who is alien to the planet, has variations of weapon copy.  That's pretty much a mandatory part of being a playable character in the Classic/X series.  Since X5 Hunter Base has been taking a part in utilizing the data from defeated bosses, and it was established since his debut that Axl can transfer his copied DNA data to others, so I wouldn't read too much into Axl's version of VWS.  Especially since they haven't really established a consistent means as to how it works.  I don't see the "new gun for every boss" formula surviving forever.

Quote
As it is, I think it's almost appropriate to start giving Cossack more credit...
I don't object to Cossack having his own buried masterpiece, but I don't see Axl as being it.  According to Lumine, Copy Chips are made using old-model Reploid data, which means whoever is behind Axl was most likely living during the Maverick Wars.  You COULD twist those words around as applying only to "proper" New Gens, but then giving their chips radically different origins damages the validity of Axl referencing their viral immunity.

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Reply #42 on: July 04, 2010, 10:32:39 PM
Even by default, though, X stands up to Axl pretty well given the huge power of his charged shots and his mobility while firing.  Also, while Axl's delayed barrier activation against bosses give his default weapon high damage; his specials don't give him the same benefit, leaving X superior if you have the appropriate weakness available.  The only thing that really makes unarmored X a bit of an underdog is that X relies on armor for the 1/2 damage benefit, whereas everyone else gets chip upgrades.  But then it's a pretty unfair comparison to allow one upgrade variety and disallow another.  Unless you're Alia; she's up the creek.

[objection!]

Actually both X and Axl can get 8 shots off on a boss without stopping.  I agree with the whole weakness thing, though, Axl's weapons are quite weak against bosses as your default weapon will outright overpower it, as odd as that is.

Also, unarmored X (as well as Alia) has the uncanny ability to charge and shoot at the same time, which can actually prove to be more useful than his armored variations given proper usage.  This is extremely helpful in instances where you need heavy firepower, such as the miniboss sections of Booster Forest.

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Offline Turian

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Reply #43 on: July 04, 2010, 10:57:36 PM
I like Axl. Then again, I think X8 should have been full 3d.



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Reply #44 on: July 04, 2010, 11:28:08 PM
Also, unarmored X (as well as Alia) has the uncanny ability to charge and shoot at the same time, which can actually prove to be more useful than his armored variations given proper usage.  This is extremely helpful in instances where you need heavy firepower, such as the miniboss sections of Booster Forest.

Mash harder. Switch to your index finger if you need to; all those sections in Booster Forest can be beaten with just the regular buster. As for the question at hand... I've always thought of Axl as a shittier Bass. Nothing more, nothing less.



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Reply #45 on: July 04, 2010, 11:30:01 PM
I haven't played any of the games he's in, so I'll just go with "yeahsurewhynot".



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Reply #46 on: July 05, 2010, 01:39:10 AM
Mash harder. Switch to your index finger if you need to; all those sections in Booster Forest can be beaten with just the regular buster. As for the question at hand... I've always thought of Axl as a shittier Bass. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well, character-wise they're nothing alike, and in gameplay I actually find Axl to be superior.  It's mainly MM10 that makes me feel that way, though.  Rapid-fire characters just suck in mid-air; more so as the enemies get smaller.  Axl's hover, and the fact that his firing direction is semi-analogue, work around that very well.

Actually both X and Axl can get 8 shots off on a boss without stopping.
Huh.  Never bothered to try that.  I guess Inti's games just had me in the mindset that rapid-fire is worthless (yet another hiccup to thank Inafune Rockman for).

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Reply #47 on: July 08, 2010, 05:32:01 PM
I've seen people say that Axl is a replacement of X, with the exception of his copy-shot and hover ability.  But personally I really do like him; he's useful in a lot of stages in X8, and I also like his personality - he kinda breaks up the seriousness of situations, if you know what I mean.



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Reply #48 on: July 11, 2010, 04:37:51 AM
he kinda breaks up the seriousness of situations, if you know what I mean.

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Reply #49 on: July 14, 2010, 12:19:18 AM
Well, character-wise they're nothing alike, and in gameplay I actually find Axl to be superior.  It's mainly MM10 that makes me feel that way, though.  Rapid-fire characters just suck in mid-air; more so as the enemies get smaller.  Axl's hover, and the fact that his firing direction is semi-analogue, work around that very well.

I heard Bass got hit quite hard with the nerf bat in 10... Stupid idea IMO. His easy mode faggotry is the reason we all loved playing him in the first place!

Also, giving Bass Gunstar Heroes firing options: god-tier character. Haven't played Axl enough to know if he is actually better than old Bass however. Just his X7 version. So my judgment on the two is even more clouded!