Topic: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?

[Galappan]

Craft. He did in a sense replace the Big 4. And showed more heart than other reploids.

Agree.

Yay! Craft deserves more .

[Waifu]

Yeah, plus he has two blasters!!

[Flame]

Wut? I clearly remember Kraft having only one gun. and a very big one if I recall.

[Zechs]

Yes. I huge canon like rifle. And a huge knife. Just the dual nature of the rifle/rocket/bomb launcher.

[HyperSonicEXE]

To add to what I've already posted long long ago:

~A 2P Wi-Fi capable Puzzle Fighter 2 with the Mega Man ZX theme. Plays exactly like it (or that new, rebalanced X' mode off HD Remix).

[HokutoNoBen]

Above all else? For Inti to do more to basically STICK to one design philosophy, and see it through, rather than try and be all over the place, and accomplish little.

This is what I think was a fundamental problem with the ZX series.

I mean, first of all, they tried to make it more "Metroid-like", by making it so that you could wander all over a big map. But the Map System sucked in the first game. The second one improved it mildly, it just that the maps themselves did more to be lackluster. 

Then there was the whole "Transformation" Aspect. While nice, all you really needed in the first game was just ZX, with OX and X being there for overkill purposes in "New Game+". Besides HX and PX, none of the other models were all that necessary, and it just did more to showcase that Inti didn't adequately balance the game to make it so that ALL the Models were feasible for gameplay. ZXA just made this facet worse....great, we have much more forms to play with....but in the end, all you really needed was ZX and A, with again, H and P as nice alternatives. Everything else was either a) situational, b) something for spamming (Chronoforce) or c) nigh-useless.

Hopefully, their time with RM9 will (re-)teach the virtues that sometimes, "less is more". ZX3 should just do more to just stick with what made the Zero series great, and less on needless fluff, such as giving us extra forms that really aren't that necessary. For all the time that went into that kind of stuff, they could have fleshed out like 2-4 distinct playstyles that would actually do more to stand out from one another, not unlike the Saber/Gun/Shield/Rod formation in the Zero series.

[HyperSonicEXE]

I had 2 early indicators that told me to "throw ZXA away":

1. Before the game was out, on the promotional site, they were showcasing and holding up the basic moves such as Jump, Dash, Jump Dash, etc.

2. When I saw that H had that strange 3-hit combo that involved switching between weapons, and that a lot of the forms had equally funky and awkward maneuvers.

At that point, I knew it wasn't going to end well.

[Sakura Leic]

I didn't exactly see a real need for Rospark after the Oil Rig area and Thetis kicks Chrono Force's butt anyday. Queen Bee and Vultron are way more useful than Aeolus so I only use him when I want to use electric attacks which I rarely do because Buckfire's arrows do the job faster against Queen Bee. 

But again the ones I used a lot were ZX and Siarnaq I just found Aeolus completely useless compared to Queen Bee and Vultron.  So yeah ZXA for me just made me use A, ZX, Siarnaq, Buckfire, Queen Bee and Vultron most of the time

[Hypershell]

Besides HX and PX, none of the other models were all that necessary

You're nuts.  FX holds the most powerful rapid-fire, and with Buster Edit can spread it over a pretty wide area.  That plus upward firing grants a lot of versatility, very useful.  LX has an extremely wide-range aerial attack, excellent once you get the Eraser chip, that and I'm an admitted Screw Halberd addict.  If anything PX was the form I didn't think much of.  The shuriken was powerful, sure, but why bother when you've got ZX's charged buster?  It navigates dark areas and it hangs from ceilings, hooray, but I'd prefer a form that can fight worth a damn in the air (at least Ashe's Mandala Star improved on things).

I think it's kinda hard to NOT have situational forms when you're dealing with boss transformations.  Bosses are designed for specialized environments and to not have to worry about contact damage.  Take that away, and some hindrance in exchange for whatever powers you're gaining is to be expected.

That being said, some of them could have stood to be better thought out.  Hedgeshock and Argoyle were in desperate need of wall-kicking, and something as large, slow, and cumbersome as Bifrost could have stood a defensive upgrade (ie: immune to weak attacks, like X8's ride armor).  Finally, Vulturon should have had a continuous attack.

[Tickle Buffalo]

I had 2 early indicators that told me to "throw ZXA away":

2. When I saw that H had that strange 3-hit combo that involved switching between weapons

But that was introduced in the first ZX.

[Sakura Leic]

That being said, some of them could have stood to be better thought out.  Hedgeshock and Argoyle were in desperate need of wall-kicking, and something as large, slow, and cumbersome as Bifrost could have stood a defensive upgrade (ie: immune to weak attacks, like X8's ride armor).  Finally, Vulturon should have had a continuous attack.

Yeah that too I hated the fact that Argoyle's dash was fast but he couldn't climb walls, as for Hedgeshock well she was just only meant to get passed obstacles in small spaces but there was only one place that had such a situation thus making her completely useless to me.  And yeah Bifrost should have that kind of thing because I didn't really used him that much except for destroying those blocks and fighting Rosespark again.

[Galappan]

Yeah, plus he has two blasters!!

.......?

Yes. I huge canon like rifle. And a huge knife. Just the dual nature of the rifle/rocket/bomb launcher.

In short a single weapon with multiple modes. Isn't that fascinating? 

But what I really like with Craft is his back flip maneuver/somersault that passes through enemies.

[HokutoNoBen]

Thetis kicks Chrono Force's butt anyday.

NOT when it came to manipulating time. That was Chronoforce's JOB. And that was made it so that, what should have been a form that you only use like, once or twice until you get Model L, became something that was viable for spamming throughout the duration of the game.

Really, it was just a thing of changing into CF, activating Time Bomb (to slow things down), then switch to either A/ZX and go nuts while the enemy is helpless. When Time Bomb runs out, lather, rinse, repeat.  

So, again, it was this type of thing that made it so that CF was a valuable resource for the player. Even Albert was little match for Time Bomb being used to your advantage.

You're nuts.  FX holds the most powerful rapid-fire, and with Buster Edit can spread it over a pretty wide area.  That plus upward firing grants a lot of versatility, very useful.

FX really didn't offer anything that couldn't have been handled by any of the "more viable" forms.

Need a decent anti-air? For most, if not all cases, Spinning Aerial Slash (ZX) was your best friend. That move OWNED in that game, both in boss battles as well as just for navigating levels.

Rapid-fire? You can either go with the more "vanilla" and reliable approach, through ZX's Buster Gun, or go with PX, who throws out more shurikens and thus, is able to deal out more hits than FX's slower shots. Plus, PX and ZX both could actually MOVE/DASH while firing; another advantage over FX, who plants its feet.

Sure, you get a great deal of power with FX, but at what price?

LX has an extremely wide-range aerial attack, excellent once you get the Eraser chip, that and I'm an admitted Screw Halberd addict.

I will grant you that (specifically with Eraser). But again, unless you REALLY wanted to spend that much time with L, you could stay with ZX and its whirling dervish of doom, and never have to explicitly deal with L. You'd be missing out, but that approach is wholly feasible.  

If anything PX was the form I didn't think much of.  The shuriken was powerful, sure, but why bother when you've got ZX's charged buster?  It navigates dark areas and it hangs from ceilings, hooray, but I'd prefer a form that can fight worth a damn in the air (at least Ashe's Mandala Star improved on things).

Again, P was good, if you really were that much into the notion of rapid-fire mashing you way to victory. Nothing else did the "mowing" thing better.

And honestly, as far the first game is concerned, for the energy that went into throwing the shuriken, you were better off just using the OIS, and throwing kunai like it was your job. Back in ZX, if all 8 Kunai hit Omega while you're in OIS, that's 8 ticks of meter off his gauge. Compare that to the 7 you would get from a successful Shuriken hit, and it's no contest which one was a much more efficient expenditure of your energy. Too bad Model P lost that kind of power with the departure of the OIS in Advent...

  

I think it's kinda hard to NOT have situational forms when you're dealing with boss transformations.  Bosses are designed for specialized environments and to not have to worry about contact damage.  Take that away, and some hindrance in exchange for whatever powers you're gaining is to be expected.

Again, I agree with you in that much. But again, my thing was....why waste the time with such things, when they could have (feasibly), done things like, I dunno, did more with other forms, instead? I, for one, would have greatly preferred more fleshed out Guardian forms, as well maybe giving A and ZX a bit more to work with.

For example, that whole "Shadow" thing that the 'goyles were using? I REALLY could have imagined that being something that would have added greatly to Model P. And there are a number of other examples that could also apply to the other Psuedaroids and the Guardian forms, such as maybe giving Model F renditions of BuckFire's hard-hitting attacks.

[Sakura Leic]

NOT when it came to manipulating time. That was Chronoforce's JOB. And that was made it so that, what should have been a form that you only use like, once or twice until you get Model L, became something that was viable for spamming throughout the duration of the game.

I barely use that time manipulating ability.

[HokutoNoBen]

I barely use that time manipulating ability.

Well, that's unfortunate.

But really, it was quite useful to bust out Time Bomb whenever you had the chance. It was often able to make even the more annoying boss battles much, MUCH easier.

[Tickle Buffalo]

FX really didn't offer anything that couldn't have been handled by any of the "more viable" forms.

Rapid-fire? You can either go with the more "vanilla" and reliable approach, through ZX's Buster Gun, or go with PX, who throws out more shurikens and thus, is able to deal out more hits than FX's slower shots. Plus, PX and ZX both could actually MOVE/DASH while firing; another advantage over FX, who plants its feet.

Fx is way better than those two for range. Does double the damage per shot of Zx, with more shots on screen at once, and can actually kill enemies in the air in under a minute, unlike Px. The only problem is you have to jump along as you shoot, which, well, isn't a problem. It's not like jumping is hard.

Also you can shoot two Fx shots faster than Px can throw 4 kunai, so I don't know what you're talking about there. It's only a tiny bit faster, anyway, so it's not like there's a real difference.

Again, P was good, if you really were that much into the notion of rapid-fire mashing you way to victory. Nothing else did the "mowing" thing better.

Try it against an enemy in the air. The angle the kunai are thrown at makes it impossible to hit with more than one unless you're right on top of the target, and each kunai only does two damage. Even if you throw two per jump, that's still only four damage. That's considerably worse than what even Lx can put out, and Lx sucks.

I barely use that time manipulating ability.

S'probably for the best. That thing's game breakingly overpowered. It's like playing on the easiest difficulty, there's barely any point.

[Sakura Leic]

Well, that's unfortunate.

But really, it was quite useful to bust out Time Bomb whenever you had the chance. It was often able to make even the more annoying boss battles much, MUCH easier.

I already play on easy mode because I'm not too good at those kinds of video games so don't push me about it so I don't use it.

[Tickle Buffalo]

It's like playing on the easier easy mode, then.

The point is that it's broken alright.


PS: I am judging you right now.

[HokutoNoBen]

Fx is way better than those two for range. Does double the damage per shot of Zx, with more shots on screen at once, and can actually kill enemies in the air in under a minute, unlike Px. The only problem is you have to jump along as you shoot, which, well, isn't a problem. It's not like jumping is hard.

Who said anything about jumping being "hard"? It's just inconvenient, in my opinion.

The fact that FX can't dash along while shooting is just not what I consider to be ideal for a game, which does more to focus on the notion of "Run and Gun". It just does more to make FX feel more "bulky", in comparison to all the other forms. 

Also you can shoot two Fx shots faster than Px can throw 4 kunai, so I don't know what you're talking about there. It's only a tiny bit faster, anyway, so it's not like there's a real difference.

Again, in my opinion, the entire difference lies in the notion that PX can keep moving while shooting/dash-shooting, which does more to make it so that, the hits both stack up AND you can afford to stay on the move. With FX, you have to wait until after the shooting animation is complete before you can move again, so you always have to make sure that when you "commit" to a shot, you can afford to do so. This is something that makes fighting as FX against a speedy opponent, like Omega, quite tedious.

This is the kind of thing I value highly in games like this, and the majority of the Zero/ZX games seem to focus more on being able to kill and and moving on the up on. PX, overall, does a better job of this, in my eyes, than FX did. 

Try it against an enemy in the air. The angle the kunai are thrown at makes it impossible to hit with more than one unless you're right on top of the target, and each kunai only does two damage.

I will admit that PX is not suited for air combat, as it's much better on the ground. But in any case, with PX, you can either opt to use the Shuriken, if you must, or you can just rush away (using the Shadow Slide, if you wish, in ZX). 

If you're going to play PX, you don't worry about air combat but so much. When you do (like in the boss fights with Hivolt), just use the Shuriken in a similar matter that you do with the Shield Boomerang back in the Zero series, and it's pretty simple.

[Tickle Buffalo]

I... can't say I've ever found jumping to be inconvenient or annoying, but, well, yeah, if you didn't want to hop everywhere I could see how Fx would be a lot worse than it normally is. Seems kinda unfair to act like that's the only way it can be used, though.

[Hypershell]

The fact that FX can't dash along while shooting is just not what I consider to be ideal for a game, which does more to focus on the notion of "Run and Gun". It just does more to make FX feel more "bulky", in comparison to all the other forms.

Well, FX is SUPPOSED to be bulky, what with those hugeass guns.  The wide range of fire is really the appealing factor.  Regularly I keep my sub-weapon sent to the highest forward path and the main set to foot level.  You can very easily take out enemies of varying elevation without having to move much, and with twice the power to each rapid-fire shot, dispense of them very quickly.  Dealing with ground-specific movement limits are nothing new to MegaMan games; in some form or another that's been a reality of the series ever since X2.

A big part of the FX vs PX debate is how quickly you can tap.  PX I hate because hitting the button too quickly interrupts the previous kunai throw, as such you're not gaining any real benefit.  It's cool if you can set yourself up on the ceiling at an appropriate angle to rain down from above, but that's about all it's good for.  Even if you're lined up on the ground, FX getting twice the damage per hit overtakes it pretty easily.  Combine that with the wide-range advantage from Buster Edit, and PX has one hell of a tight niche for me. 

This is the kind of thing I value highly in games like this, and the majority of the Zero/ZX games seem to focus more on being able to kill and and moving on the up on. PX, overall, does a better job of this, in my eyes, than FX did.

Well, that's all up to personal preference, which is part of what the entire appeal of multiple forms is: customization to your own play style.  As much as I like to jump into a fight and get my hands dirty, I'm also quite adept at planting myself in a proper position before I strike.  Comes a lot from my Zero fandom, I suppose; PS1 games have no walking attack and, save X4, pitiful dashing moves, while the Zero/ZX games punish you in attack strength for slashing while walking.

I will admit that PX is not suited for air combat, as it's much better on the ground. But in any case, with PX, you can either opt to use the Shuriken, if you must, or you can just rush away (using the Shadow Slide, if you wish, in ZX).

[Flame]

I always use P against Dragon Albert in ZXA.

[Align]

the other models aren't useless but why bother when ZX can deal with everything as good as or better than them

[Boiled_Egg]

I find the main appeal of multiple forms to be the fact that you can change between them.

I mean using HX and PX in tandem in ZX gives you unrivaled mobility. as opposed to using one exclusivily.
Using HX to position yourself in an enemy blindspot and then using FX buster edit to attack gives you an very safe defensive tactic.

But enough of that.

What im mainly hoping for if ZX3 is made is.

~Aile/Vent or new characters for mains.
~PnP return as "Neutral enemies" who are against you but not helping the bigbad/Thomas, Or atleast Secret Bosses, Also good ending for them.
~No "one-use-only" forms like Hedgeshock and Bifrost was.
~Story deals with Ciel and the characters who wasn´r chosen(By the player. meaning Vent/Ashe in Aile story line for example).
~Small4 have an unique Boss theme.
~Wallkicking Hu.

~If A/V returns:

-Starts with Model X, It handles abit worse then ZX Model X since it will be an constant, No double charge shot and charge is slightly slower then the original too.

-Gets Model AX after an story event with G/A. AX grants multi lock(Sub) and Laser shot(Charge). (Regardless wheter it is Grey or Ashe who gives it) This event happens after 2 8boss

-Model X upgrades to Model XX after an fight against the character you didn´t choose. It looks like Model X with something like Copy X armor. Four normal shots are able to be on screen at the same time and double charge shot is available. but the Charge time is the same as for normal Model X. This happens during the last fourth of the story, After all 8boss have been beaten.

Four 8bosses are selectable at the start, the last four appear after all of them have been beaten, The first 4 opens the small4s stages. and the later 4 upgrades their elemental LM. Also The first 4 are Psuedoroids and the later ones are the "New beings" Thomas was talking about.

-Small 4 uses Double models. Basically Models HH,FF,LL and PP. This makes them alot stronger then they was in ZXA. and also allows them to lose their model without putting them completely out of play. Their levels start after the bossroom that the Psuedoroid that answers to them is in. they fight you twice in the level once in the begining with their normal model and later at the end with their double model.

-Big four Models handles like in ZX. Lx keeps ice platt form but Hx doesnt get it´s Overpowered tornado.

-ZX come back into play after 4 8bosses have been beaten. handles like in ZXA.

-Right before the Final Boss Small4 fight you alá PnP except with all 4 of them. Before the fight A/V says "Didn´t we do this already?" refering to the ZXA battle. (Man, i felt robbed of that one.)

-Thomas reveals that "Gasp" he have taken Ciel hostage (frozen or somthing in the background.) and have used her to create the Fake/Souless Biometal/Livemetal  the Small4/Notchosen were using(Small 4 uses the souless ones after the originals are taken back). His first form looks an bit like an hybrid of all Models(X=Mainbody,Z=Helmet,A=Chestarmor,H=Wings, L=Legs F=Big buster rifles on shoulders.) and fights using their attacks.

-That brings it to an total of 7/8 forms. (X,Zx,Hx,Fx,Lx,Px,Ax,Xx(It replaces X completely)) so having Plain ol Z has an secret just can´t hurt.

-The number of bosses becomes something like: Intro,8boss(8.),Small4(4.),Small4+(4.),Quad4,Notchosen,Event,Final(3.) and Secret Meaning 23 bossfights.

But enough about Aile and Vent.

~If there are new mains.

-Male/Female choice.
-Can choose between Model (M) or Model (R).(Temporary names because i lack imagination.)
 -(M) is an (M)elee based LM that can´t use any long range attacks at all. It uses Beam claws.(4hit combo)
 -(R) is an (R)ange based LM that can´t use any melee attacks at all. Its attacks are stronger the farther from the shot hitts meaning that Rapid fire is not an option. since standing that near an enemy yields pathetic damage. It uses an Sniper Buster rifle.(4 shots onscreen))

-(M)/(R) are souless LMs, meaning that they wont have any dialog or talk.
-It is later relvealed that they were experiments by Thomas to create his own LMs that "normal" humans and "New Beings" can use. They are prototypes and Much Much weaker then the originals. Infact they was dismissed as failed.

-(M)/(R) can use DRO(Double Rock On.) on the Big4 Models. But (M)/(R) are still dominant, Meaning no element/colour change but rather just a few added abilities and an secondary attack. it is equipped on the pause menu rather then having an quickmenu alá ZX/ZXA.
-(R)h uses the beam knives as boomerangs. and gives Hover. H´s wings are added.
-(M)h uses an weaker version of the Harpuia combo... without the sonic boom. Also Hover. H´s wings are added.
-(R)f uses one Buster Rifle, but it´s comboable with the Sniper, Meaning more shots(7 if you even can get that many) on screen at once. It also stops flinching when taking damage. It adds F´s Buster.
-(M)f uses the Busterpunch, is sends an small buster shot the same distance has the hadoken normally would... It also stops flinching when taking damage. It adds F´s Buster.
-(R)l adds an spear throw that can pierce several enemies. It also make once move like if one was on land in water. It adds L´s arm and leg fins.
-(M)l adds the an weaker variation of the halberd slash. It also make once move like if one was on land in water.  It adds L´s arm and leg fins.
-(R)p adds the kunai spam,  But it arches like it did when Px was hanging on roofs. It also stops wallsliding. It adds P´s scarf.
-(M)p adds an short katana slash. If the slash hits teleport behind the enemy.(It deals 1 damage.)It also stops wallsliding. It adds P´s scarf.

-8bosses gives ammo(For(R)) or weapons(For (M)) these are equipped in the pause menu and replaces the Normal weapon, using them requires WE.

And i think that´s enough for the mc´s, 10 Forms times 8 weapon is a whole lot for customization.

-Female is an expert thief who breaks into an research institute to steal Leagion´s new weapon for some raiders, Mistakes the LM for it but it turns out the weapon is the intro boss.

-Male is an young deliquent orphan who is out after curfew, causing him to be chased after by Legion´s Police mechaloids. he ends up near an research institute where he finds his model and fights the intro boss.

-A bit into the game PnP appears(Horribly beaten up and weakened) and mistakes Main for an Rockman and attacks Her/him. After the battle the mistake is resolved and PnP gets good end by coming to the conclusion that if even normal humans can use LMs now then perhaps they can live normal lives despite being armoured.


Well that´s that, Sorry for any gramatic errors and the like.

[Galappan]

I really want to know what happen to Mikhail after the revelation of Thomas' true intention. If he got crush by Thomas humongous fist or he got minced by the Small4 then threw to the ocean. But despite of that the Mikhail's overall structure seems to be odd & really intrigues me. He gives me this Sasori vibe, if you know what I mean. Like a person inside an assuming person.

Or maybe.....

right after the Secret Ending Mikhail also reveal his true colors and make an agreement with Thomas. A 50/50 sharing of the world after they reset it.  There might also be a 2nd Secret Ending wherein you must beat Albert using Model a only.

-Thomas reveals that "Gasp" he have taken Ciel hostage (frozen or somthing in the background.)

yet intriguing. Well...Cold Sleep is good plot device too. ^^

-(M)/(R) are souless LMs, meaning that they wont have any dialog or talk.

Is it like a regular changer device that grants you an armor? Ala Power Rangers? That's nice too.