Sonic the Hedgehog 4 (Wii, PS3, 360, iPhone)

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Offline Police Girl

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Reply #1375 on: October 16, 2010, 08:50:05 AM
That must be the 360 version only. If anybody who has the Wii version backs these up as happening on it. Tell me. The only thing I have seen in mine is the BS air physics.



Offline Ephidiel

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Reply #1376 on: October 16, 2010, 10:19:02 AM
i encountered some of those on the wii version to
especially the one with the spin dash and the rolling



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Reply #1377 on: October 16, 2010, 03:27:14 PM
The video is basically a few dozen different ways of showing the same two issues: incline acceleration/deceleration, and aerial momentum.  Both of which we've addressed, and both I can confirm are present in the Wii version.

I see no issues with spin-dashing.  Spin-dashing off of a ledge as the video demonstrates puts you in the air, thus we're actually looking at the same aerial momentum oddities again; that is what's triggering the speed loss.  Rolling/spin-dashing has nothing to do with it; the exact same thing would happen if you were running down a hill/shot over by a spring and had released the D-Pad to try to "coast" over the ledge.

If you haven't figured it out by now: You *MUST* hold forward if you go off the ground for any reason and intend to not stop.  It's not game-breaking but it is awkward as hell.  Basically, momentum seems to only exist on the ground.



On inclines, yes, their speed-up/slow-down effects can zero-balance with the player's movement, leaving Sonic sliding/jogging in place.  But that's a purely aesthetic issue.  It's the same thing as when you don't have enough speed in the Genesis games, except that the Genesis games didn't have the two forces cancel each other out so precisely, so instead of jogging in place you would slide/run back and forth on the same half-inch or so of the hill.  In either case, the end result is the same: If you continue to hold the D-pad in a direction which you do not have enough speed to go in, you won't get there.

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Offline Satoryu

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Reply #1378 on: October 16, 2010, 06:42:37 PM
Every example in that video I can attribute to either You're Doing it Wrong or You're Doing it on Purpose. After Casino Street boss, for example, he didn't build up nearly enough speed at all. He probably didn't even start running from the middle of the room.

And maybe it's just me, but even in the Genesis days I held forward after a spin dash, or most anything that requires me going forward at all, so the air momentum thing is not a problem to me. Hell, stopping in mid air could actually be very helpful when platforming. You can fall at the precise spot and not worry about overshooting.


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Offline STM

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Reply #1379 on: October 16, 2010, 07:09:41 PM
I know the point you're talking about, and I did try to roll up it at first. So I instead ran up the left to build speed, then ran up and over the right, never had a problem again. Perhaps trying to roll up was muscle memory from the many halfpipes in Metroid Prime?

Go try it in Spring Yard and Casino Night, sir.



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Reply #1380 on: October 16, 2010, 07:11:12 PM
Go try it in Spring Yard and Casino Night, sir.

They show the Spring Yard Example in the ending credits of S1, so that could be used as well.



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Reply #1381 on: October 17, 2010, 04:07:33 AM
I maintain that I had no such issues half-piping in STH4.  I really, truly, have no idea what STM is talking about on that one.

Beat the game today.  Final boss is annoying as hell in FIGURING OUT what to do, but easy once you know how.

Ring collection in the ending jog could not possibly be more pointless.  Seriously, I nabbed all the Chaos Emeralds, blew up all the machines, and Eggman is laughing at me because I had less than perfect jumps in an auto-run devoid of enemies or hazards?  Riiiight.

The one stunt which I didn't feel worked well was the vine-swinging, but thankfully that was limited to a single Act (and in most cases you can find an alternate path).  Timing on the jumps from a swing just felt too strict, or maybe it has something to do with how you hold the D-Pad, I dunno.

Every example in that video I can attribute to either You're Doing it Wrong or You're Doing it on Purpose.
Obviously true on the incline deceleration.  ANY seasoned Sonic player, when they see they are not clearing an incline (and yes that can happen a plenty) will either turn around or jump, and jumping off of an incline was never smooth in the Genesis games to begin with (if anything Homing Attack gives you more of a fighting chance in those situations).

Air physics were done on purpose to demonstrate the point, and while 3D Sonic has gotten me in the habit of holding forward, you do have to get VERY strict about it in STH4.  And, obviously, it throws off your ability to land until you process how it works.  It doesn't take long, but that particular bump is simply inevitable.  It's just not the way any previous 2D Sonic ever handled.

And maybe it's just me, but even in the Genesis days I held forward after a spin dash, or most anything that requires me going forward at all, so the air momentum thing is not a problem to me. Hell, stopping in mid air could actually be very helpful when platforming. You can fall at the precise spot and not worry about overshooting.
I actually notice it more when trying to brake from a spin-dash, particularly during the final boss fight, so yeah it can be useful once you adjust.  But really, a Homing Attack/Jump Dash in the opposite direction ought to be able to cancel momentum just as well without screwing with the default movement.  Further, if we're open to incorporating 3D Sonic abilities into 2D (and I must admit they handled that pretty well; felt a lot more natural than midair boosting in Rush, and the range was short enough that it didn't break the game), I think a MANUAL Jump Cancel such as used in Secret Rings/Black Knight wouldn't have been a bad idea.  Heck, there were a few areas in the final Act where I would have killed for such an ability, what with how fast those freaking gates close.  Come at one too high in the air and you're dead.

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Reply #1382 on: October 17, 2010, 04:51:24 AM
Ring collection in the ending jog could not possibly be more pointless.  Seriously, I nabbed all the Chaos Emeralds, blew up all the machines, and Eggman is laughing at me because I had less than perfect jumps in an auto-run devoid of enemies or hazards?  Riiiight.
I thought he was laughing because of
[spoiler]his possible unleashing of Metal Sonic in Episode 2. As shown in the ending after he laughs.[/spoiler]



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Reply #1383 on: October 17, 2010, 06:28:02 AM
Well, maybe.  I didn't actually get all of those rings yet; only beat the final boss once.

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Offline Solar

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Reply #1384 on: October 17, 2010, 06:31:14 AM
Horse.
[parasitic bomb].
People complain about this all the time, and yet it's NEVER happened to me. Not in 4, not in Rush, NEVER. If you get what's in that video, I'm convinced YOU'RE doing something wrong.

Something similar happened to me 5 seconds into the demo, and all I did was try a homing attack. Speaking of the homing attack,  I did one close to the first slope, it locked on to the fish robot, and then it sent me flying as if I had just done a fully charged spin attack. It was a funny surprise I guess.

The game does feel a bit off so far, and Sonic takes too long to speed up without a homing attack, but eh, I'm enjoying it I guess.


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Reply #1385 on: October 17, 2010, 07:24:46 AM
Well, maybe.  I didn't actually get all of those rings yet; only beat the final boss once.

You don't need to get all the rings. You only need to get them all if you want to see Super Sonic at the ending.

Its total bullshit though. That should be automatic if you have all the Emeralds. I keep [tornado fang]ing up the last jump and they had the balls to disable going to the home menu and allowing a reset. I've done that ending 3 or 4 times now and I keep getting screwed over.



Offline Kieran

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Reply #1386 on: October 17, 2010, 06:36:36 PM
Whoever put this bottomless pit under a field of rotating cards when Sonic has no air momentum without a homing attack can suck my dick.

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Offline Zan

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Reply #1387 on: October 17, 2010, 08:57:41 PM
So, with this game continuing where Sonic3 & Knuckles left off, how does its story relate to the Adventure games and beyond?



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Reply #1388 on: October 17, 2010, 09:18:54 PM
Whoever put this bottomless pit under a field of rotating cards when Sonic has no air momentum without a homing attack can suck my dick.

Not to mention that you can't jump up the cards when they are flat like platforms, because some dipshit put collision data on the bottom.

So, with this game continuing where Sonic3 & Knuckles left off, how does its story relate to the Adventure games and beyond?

The Adventure games are ignored. The only things that stem from those games are the Homing attack and the Sonic Design. Other than that its like classic sonic.



Offline Ephidiel

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Reply #1389 on: October 17, 2010, 11:26:17 PM
Not to mention that you can't jump up the cards when they are flat like platforms, because some dipshit put collision data on the bottom.

while every other platform doesn't



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Reply #1390 on: October 18, 2010, 04:28:14 AM
So, with this game continuing where Sonic3 & Knuckles left off, how does its story relate to the Adventure games and beyond?
"Story".   XD

There's considerably LESS story in this game than STH2/S3&K, which is saying a lot.  Sonic runs, collects Emeralds, and blows up Eggman's nostalgic crap.  That's it.

The biggest spoiler of the game is probably that
[spoiler]because we need every excuse in the book to not use ANY of Sonic's supporting cast, Sonic follows Eggman to his space base by jumping onto a conveniently placed Eggman rocket.  What the hell is the rocket even doing there?  Beats me.[/spoiler]

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Reply #1391 on: October 18, 2010, 04:59:14 AM
[spoiler]because we need every excuse in the book to not use ANY of Sonic's supporting cast, Sonic follows Eggman to his space base by jumping onto a conveniently placed Eggman rocket.  What the hell is the rocket even doing there?  Beats me.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Look closer, sir. That's Tails' logo.[/spoiler]



Offline Zan

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Reply #1392 on: October 18, 2010, 09:14:14 PM
Quote
There's considerably LESS story in this game than STH2/S3&K, which is saying a lot.  Sonic runs, collects Emeralds, and blows up Eggman's nostalgic crap.  That's it.

Sounds good to me. So I don't suppose there'll be any "city" zones in this game?



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Reply #1393 on: October 19, 2010, 12:58:05 AM
Grass, casino, ruins, machine base.  That's it.

[spoiler]Look closer, sir. That's Tails' logo.[/spoiler]
Must've been half-asleep.  Still doesn't explain it popping up from out of nowhere, though.

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Reply #1394 on: October 19, 2010, 03:30:10 AM
Grass, casino, ruins, machine base.  That's it.
Must've been half-asleep.  Still doesn't explain it popping up from out of nowhere, though.

[spoiler]It shows Tails is still around, but never seen.[/spoiler]



Offline STM

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Reply #1395 on: October 19, 2010, 03:50:23 AM
Cartoon logic, man. Things don't have to make sense.



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Reply #1396 on: October 20, 2010, 03:23:51 AM
[spoiler]It shows Tails is still around, but never seen.[/spoiler]
So just when we thought Tails couldn't get screwed over any further, he gets demoted from cheerleader to Gareth's lion.

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Reply #1397 on: October 20, 2010, 07:37:53 AM
Read the beginning of this page. Truer words have never been spoken.


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Reply #1398 on: October 21, 2010, 03:28:18 AM
Very, very true.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is no consensus whatsoever in the Sonic fanbase on what constitutes a "good" Sonic game.

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Offline kuja killer

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Reply #1399 on: October 27, 2010, 05:44:52 AM
hey i was wondering.
Do you guys think there's any possible way in the world for people to contact the sonic team, or microsoft, or whoever made sonic 4 in ANY WAY possible ...to do something about the [tornado fang]ing leaderboards ??

They're [tornado fang]ing hacked to god damn death by tons of freaking bastards on the 360.
Well okay thing is, your score counter gets reset to zero every time you die or start another level right ? so that should be able to prevent cheating greatly....and some levels it's IMPOSSIBLE 1 million percent to get past certain score. Like all the battles with eggman, you cant get any higher than like 82,200 or something

well the first 30-some people all have 999 million ...and the first couple entries are [tornado fang]ing 16 BILLION ..for every level, boss battle for eggman...all 7 emerald levels ....even time attack mode. EVERY act...special stage, eggman battle..i mean everything all say 0 minutes, 0 seconds, 0 millisecond....it's [tornado fang]ing ridiculous!!

why do they never deal with this crap. :cry: