Topic: Metroid Discussion Thread

[Bueno Excelente]

Or ya know, just make your opinion.

I did make my opinion.

Just because I agree with an article that pinpoints most problems with the game's story, does it mean I don't have my own opinion? That's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

[Zan]

I did make my opinion.

Just because I agree with an article that pinpoints most problems with the game's story, does it mean I don't have my own opinion? That's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

You have just as much an opinion as Samus does when she agrees with Adam.

Really,that article of yours falls flat on its face to represent you because it actually acknowledges why Other M just works; there is a very deliberate premise of Adam being both a hero and an antagonistic dirtbag. It is Adam, and only Adam that has any sort of leverage on Samus.

To everyone else and on her own, she's the Samus Aran we've always known. Emphasized by her having to save Anthony, boldly waltzing through the "hell run", kicking Ridley's behind shortly following PTSD,  self authorizing with a sarcastic line directed at Adam, and beating the living daylights out of anything in the Bottle Ship including a Metroid Queen. This is how she is in every Metroid game, without Adam.

With Adam, her shaky relationship with him serves to acknowledge why the Deleter subplot is getting to her, serves to acknowledge exactly why Ridley is giving her a mental breakdown. And let us not forget everything else the game does to justify itself, from the baby to the complete obliteration of the space pirates; it all gives a solid reason for why emotionless Samus Aran would have emotions now. Representing not only Samus Aran, but the entire Metroid series going full circle, this is the story of a little girl turned into an emotionless bounty hunter. Other M takes that and brings her old and current self into a head to head clash. The emotions she had bottled up for years are finally coming to the surface.

And that's really how it is right now; we're simply seeing two extremes.  It is for future games to bring balance to her character, to unite the emotions of the scarred girl and hardened bounty hunter into a package we can all relate to. In many ways, Fusion gives us this, and beyond that, the possibilities are endless.

[Bueno Excelente]

You have just as much an opinion as Samus does when she agrees with Adam.

Really,that article of yours falls flat on its face to represent you because it actually acknowledges why Other M just works; there is a very deliberate premise of Adam being both a hero and an antagonistic dirtbag. It is Adam, and only Adam that has any sort of leverage on Samus.

To everyone else and on her own, she's the Samus Aran we've always known. Emphasized by her having to save Anthony, boldly waltzing through the "hell run", kicking Ridley's behind shortly following PTSD,  self authorizing with a sarcastic line directed at Adam, and beating the living daylights out of anything in the Bottle Ship including a Metroid Queen. This is how she is in every Metroid game, without Adam.

With Adam, her shaky relationship with him serves to acknowledge why the Deleter subplot is getting to her, serves to acknowledge exactly why Ridley is giving her a mental breakdown. And let us not forget everything else the game does to justify itself, from the baby to the complete obliteration of the space pirates; it all gives a solid reason for why emotionless Samus Aran would have emotions now. Representing not only Samus Aran, but the entire Metroid series going full circle, this is the story of a little girl turned into an emotionless bounty hunter. Other M takes that and brings her old and current self into a head to head clash. The emotions she had bottled up for years are finally coming to the surface.

And that's really how it is right now; we're simply seeing two extremes.  It is for future games to bring balance to her character, to unite the emotions of the scarred girl and hardened bounty hunter into a package we can all relate to. In many ways, Fusion gives us this, and beyond that, the possibilities are endless.

That is the stupidest god damn argument I have ever seen in my whole life. So only the first person who comes up with something has an opinion. EVERYONE else who agrees with them are just sheep following a leader blindly. Jesus Christ.

Other M was supposed to feature a hardened Samus, after ALOT of adventures she had. Instead, it portrayed a space version of Bella Swan, who's given no other reason to connect to Adam other than "he was her commanding officer and kinda disagreed with her on stuff and called her lady" but worships him in all kinds of situations, shits her pants whenever he gives her an order and only defies him ONCE, when there is COMPLETE RADIO SILENCE.

The story is damn awful. No matter how you see it.

[Zan]

That is the stupidest god damn argument I have ever seen in my whole life. So only the first person who comes up with something has an opinion. EVERYONE else who agrees with them are just sheep following a leader blindly. Jesus Christ.

Thank you for disagreeing with your own article, is all I'm saying. Samus does have her own opinion, even if Adam is the first to have it. Just as much as you have an opinion despite the writer of that article being the first to have it.

Other M was supposed to feature a hardened Samus, after ALOT of adventures she had. Instead, it portrayed a space version of Bella Swan, who's given no other reason to connect to Adam other than "he was her commanding officer and kinda disagreed with her on stuff and called her lady" but worships him in all kinds of situations, shits her pants whenever he gives her an order and only defies him ONCE, when there is COMPLETE RADIO SILENCE.

The game more than enough justifies itself. It is surprising how those that exclaim the game has a lack of subtlety (the baby, the baby!) can't seem to grasp the subtle factors involved in the Ridley fight, and even altogether ignore the very introduction that was hammered into their skulls to begin with; battle-hardened Samus Aran grieving over the loss of the baby. In that state, her fated meeting with Adam Malkovich takes on a course of events that unearths all the she kept bottled up inside of her to fulfill the role she's been given since Zero Mission. The thematic use of the name Bottle Ship should become obvious even to you; this is a woman that opens up to nobody.

[Kieran]

You know, it's not the story in Other M that bugs me.  Granted, the execution was sloppy and could've used some fine tuning.  What really bothered me were two things:

1) While the design of the Power Suit kind of grew on me, they have no excuse for making the Varia Suit nothing but a recolor of it, and even less for making the Gravity Suit nothing but a glowy aura around the Varia Suit.  The art direction was fine overall, but the way they stripped down the suit is just irritating.

2) You have the ability to go into first person mode any time, any place.  The game isn't restrictive about this in the slightest.  So why the [tornado fang] can't we move in first-person?  They had the opportunity to make a perfect blend of Metroid Prime and Super Metroid, allowing the player to switch back and forth whenever they want.  But god forbid they have to plug the other half of the controller in!  Oh no, this game has to be remote only.

[Zan]

1) While the design of the Power Suit kind of grew on me, they have no excuse for making the Varia Suit nothing but a recolor of it, and even less for making the Gravity Suit nothing but a glowy aura around the Varia Suit.  The art direction was fine overall, but the way they stripped down the suit is just irritating.

I liked the redesign of the Power Suit here. It was a lot more 'feminine' than before, and looked more like it would fit around her without dislocating a few joints. But I agree on the Varia and Gravity Suit upgrades; it was very much a let down how they did not change the suit's design.

2) You have the ability to go into first person mode any time, any place.  The game isn't restrictive about this in the slightest.  So why the [tornado fang] can't we move in first-person?  They had the opportunity to make a perfect blend of Metroid Prime and Super Metroid, allowing the player to switch back and forth whenever they want.  But god forbid they have to plug the other half of the controller in!  Oh no, this game has to be remote only.

Even in a remote only set-up, I think we could have some sort of limited movement using the D-pad. However, there is a risk of repeating X7's mistakes if both viewpoints got an equal focus.

[Solar]

http://moonbase.rydia.net/mental/blog/gaming/metroid-other-m-the-elephant/article.html

Here. This pretty much explains all problems with the Other M story in detail.

Oh, I've already read plenty about it since it came out, I don't need you to link me to that kind of articles. I said it more because...

Or ya know, just make your opinion.

This.

[Satoryu]

That is the stupidest god damn argument I have ever seen in my whole life. So only the first person who comes up with something has an opinion. EVERYONE else who agrees with them are just sheep following a leader blindly. Jesus Christ.

Other M was supposed to feature a hardened Samus, after ALOT of adventures she had. Instead, it portrayed a space version of Bella Swan, who's given no other reason to connect to Adam other than "he was her commanding officer and kinda disagreed with her on stuff and called her lady" but worships him in all kinds of situations, shits her pants whenever he gives her an order and only defies him ONCE, when there is COMPLETE RADIO SILENCE.

The story is damn awful. No matter how you see it.

Did you even play the game, or are you just listening to the internet's one sided reactions that fail to read beyond face value? Because you sound exactly like the latter. A blind sheep, if you will.

[Bueno Excelente]

Thank you for disagreeing with your own article, is all I'm saying. Samus does have her own opinion, even if Adam is the first to have it. Just as much as you have an opinion despite the writer of that article being the first to have it.

The game more than enough justifies itself. It is surprising how those that exclaim the game has a lack of subtlety (the baby, the baby!) can't seem to grasp the subtle factors involved in the Ridley fight, and even altogether ignore the very introduction that was hammered into their skulls to begin with; battle-hardened Samus Aran grieving over the loss of the baby. In that state, her fated meeting with Adam Malkovich takes on a course of events that unearths all the she kept bottled up inside of her to fulfill the role she's been given since Zero Mission. The thematic use of the name Bottle Ship should become obvious even to you; this is a woman that opens up to nobody.

I seriously can't believe I'm going to have to explain this. I don't know what kind of narrative you're used to, but Other M's narrative was about as deep as a typical Hollywood action movie, with the added idiotic sentiment of "WE'RE BEING DEEEEP BY BLOWING APART STORY ELEMENTS". Every single time Samus is in the presence of Adam, she turns into a subservient protagonist. She does what Adam tells her, and she wouldn't dare even step outside the line for a single moment. That is NOT simply "agreeing with someone", after that someone puts her in danger purposedly, making her survive stupid [parasitic bomb] all over the adventure just to tell her "oh, you get to use this now I guess" only when it comes to a point where she basically CANNOT POSSIBLY PROGRESS any further without the goddamned item. Making her items be used in terms of "what he lets her use" is either bad storytelling, or an awful gameplay mechanic to justify her gaining the items little by little. Either way, the end result turns her into a woman that Adam uses like putty. He risks her life countless times, and for [tornado fang]'S SAKE, you cannot possibly justify in aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany way the fact that he shot her as soon as she saw the presence of her biggest enemy. Without justifying it for a single second.

A woman who sees a parasite who follows her around for a few hours and then saves her life some time later after eating her to an inch of her life, and then suddenly GRIEVES for it like a child, is not in any way a believable woman. The number of times she grieves over some creature which didn't even make that big of a mark in her life, is not just unrealistic, it portrays her as a walking womb, hormonally driven, like the useless female she is. No, her grief and the way she talks to herself isn't in any way normal for someone who braves entire planets alone and eradicates entire evil races of aliens by herself. I have no idea how you see women, but I can assure you that no self-respecting woman behaves like that. She shouldn't feel THAT big of a loss for the baby Metroid! And she shouldn't break apart in tears when she sees Ridley again, specially since she has fought him so many times before, without flinching. Not even in narratively broken series like Megaman X does the main character break in tears everytime he sees Sigma has been revived. Why should Samus? Why should Samus, efectively ending up being at fault for the "death" of one of her best friends, let such a thing happen? Wanna see a game where past death/traumatic events in loose-storied 2D games are treated well? Look at Metal Gear Solid. Gray Fox's death is treated fairly. Snake doesn't spend hours whining about him, but he grieves about his BEST FRIEND. While Samus ends up grieving more about the death of THE BAAAABY than the death of one of her comrades. The one who was the kindest to her, probably the nicest to her, enough to sacrifice his own life just to save her. She just... wonders how he felt when he was falling. Gee, Samus. Now THAT'S being kind.
While Adam? Holy [parasitic bomb], he gets to shoot her in the back and take her to safety like the worthless woman she is, and die a veeeeeery forceful UHMERIKAN HERO DEATH. Oh, and of course I understand the "subtle" themes in Other M. Why shouldn't I, when they wack you over the head with them? And they have the depth of a high school emo's tragic poetry. Seriously, "bottle ship"?

My point stands. Metroid: Other M has one of the worst narratives I've ever seen in any game. And most people honestly agree with me. If you're gonna treat it like a deep story, like the rest of the children who honestly think that FFVII can be compared to literature, be my guest.

Did you even play the game, or are you just listening to the internet's one sided reactions that fail to read beyond face value? Because you sound exactly like the latter. A blind sheep, if you will.

Oh, THANK YOU for giving so many reasons why my well-fundamented points are wrong. Thank you for carefully rebutting every single one of my arguments with carefully worded sentences and reasons why your opinion is right and mine is wrong.

Oh, and more than anything, thank you for not just being a prick who says I'm wrong without even telling me why. Thank you for not calling me a sheep while ironically forgetting the fact that you're the one blindly agreeing with other's opinions without even saying WHY.

[/[tornado fang]ing HUGE SARCASM TAG]

[Satoryu]

All I'm saying is that your arguments line up with those of the haters. And most of the haters subscribe to the They Changed It Now It Sucks ideology and/or haven't played the game for themselves and just go off word of mouth. But haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, I don't even want none of the above, I want to [acid burst] on you.

And I never said you were wrong. I definitely agree that there are problems with the storytelling in Other M. I just don't have as much issue with it as the general internet opinion does. And I just don't feel like going into detail as I've probably explained my feelings elsewhere if people didn't say something similar already.

[Bueno Excelente]

All I'm saying is that your arguments line up with those of the haters. And most of the haters subscribe to the They Changed It Now It Sucks ideology and/or haven't played the game for themselves and just go off word of mouth. But haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, I don't even want none of the above, I want to [acid burst] on you.

And I never said you were wrong. I definitely agree that there are problems with the storytelling in Other M. I just don't have as much issue with it as the general internet opinion does. And I just don't feel like going into detail as I've probably explained my feelings elsewhere if people didn't say something similar already.

Did I say that the game was awful? I liked the gameplay. And it was the first Metroid I ever played without getting seriously bored in the middle and dropping it for a few weeks only to return to it out of more boredom.

The storyline just plain sucks. And after all of you have been discussing fine points of the Metroid saga to a microscopic degree, I can definetly say that people do care about the story. I don't give a [parasitic bomb] about it, but it doesn't stop being the Twilight of videogames. Other M, that is.

[Zan]

Every single time Samus is in the presence of Adam, she turns into a subservient protagonist.

The very same Samus Aran that vehemently gave Adam a thumbs down and boldly deserted his command. Her following his orders now is only an effort to outgrow her wild teenage years; showing her professional side, "for the sake of the mission." If she had any objections, she would damn well tell him following his trademark quote.

making her survive stupid [parasitic bomb] all over the adventure just to tell her "oh, you get to use this now I guess" only when it comes to a point where she basically CANNOT POSSIBLY PROGRESS any further without the goddamned item

Except, Samus has every single one of those upgrades disabled of her own accord. You surely can't space jump when you first enter the Bottle Ship. This is not just Adam's policy, it is Samus' as well.

When Adam's authorization protocols do come into play, they were well justified within the storyline. Weaponry being blatantly obvious, with the great risks they pose to the other soldiers, as well as any surviving scientists.

Movement items too, were justified, albeit in passing. Adam specified his wish to restrict exploration of the Bottle Ship based on the currently available equipment.  An entirely logical proposal to create a set route through a virtual maze, which includes not wandering too far into hostile territory like Sector Three. Only when there is an urgent need to advance to the next area requiring a yet unlocked item (Sector Three boss, Athony save, Sector Zero collapse)  does Adam authorize or Samus self-authorize the use of such equipment. No point side tracking into the Power Bomb areas when there are perfectly fine alternate routes to take across the Bottle Ship; after all, it should have been entirely traversable for the average scientist as well.

Honestly, it sounds to me like you just couldn't stand the heat in Sector Three. Because heaven forbid, Adam actually has faith in Samus, the galactic savior, to effortlessly do what the player apparently struggles with.

A woman who sees a parasite who follows her around for a few hours and then saves her life some time later after eating her to an inch of her life, and then suddenly GRIEVES for it like a child, is not in any way a believable woman.

Throughout Other M, Samus has cried only once. That was when Adam sacrificed himself.

Her grief for the baby was never portrayed as anything greater than a sense of loss, a numbness to the heart. Never once did a tear form. Just as much, Samus never sobbed during the Ridley encounter; only the recollection of herself as a child did. The Samus Aran of the present froze before Ridley, yes, lost her power suit because her focus deteriorated, yes, had Anthony seemingly die because of her own weakness, yes, but quickly got up and wiped the floor with Ridley in the way she had always done.

While Samus ends up grieving more about the death of THE BAAAABY than the death of one of her comrades. The one who was the kindest to her, probably the nicest to her, enough to sacrifice his own life just to save her. She just... wonders how he felt when he was falling. Gee, Samus. Now THAT'S being kind.

Could you make up your mind, do you want a battle hardened Samus Aran or not? Guess I should alter my views on your dislike of authorization protocols; you just hate Adam's gut, that's all there is to it.

[Bueno Excelente]

The very same Samus Aran that vehemently gave Adam a thumbs down and boldly deserted his command. Her following his orders now is only an effort to outgrow her wild teenage years; showing her professional side, "for the sake of the mission." If she had any objections, she would damn well tell him following his trademark quote.

Scarring event led her to run with her tail between her legs. Not justified.

Except, Samus has every single one of those upgrades disabled of her own accord. You surely can't space jump when you first enter the Bottle Ship. This is not just Adam's policy, it is Samus' as well.

Bad story/gameplay fixings. You don't walk into a minimal situation zone with your bazooka in tow, do you? But you DO take out your heavy arsenal just as soon as it's easier to defeat enemies with a certain kind of weapon.

When Adam's authorization protocols do come into play, they were well justified within the storyline. Weaponry being blatantly obvious, with the great risks they pose to the other soldiers, as well as any surviving scientists.

Movement items too, were justified, albeit in passing. Adam specified his wish to restrict exploration of the Bottle Ship based on the currently available equipment.  An entirely logical proposal to create a set route through a virtual maze, which includes not wandering too far into hostile territory like Sector Three. Only when there is an urgent need to advance to the next area requiring a yet unlocked item (Sector Three boss, Athony save, Sector Zero collapse)  does Adam authorize or Samus self-authorize the use of such equipment. No point side tracking into the Power Bomb areas when there are perfectly fine alternate routes to take across the Bottle Ship; after all, it should have been entirely traversable for the average scientist as well.

There are plenty of areas in which shortcuts could have been used, plenty of enemies in which more powerful weapons could have been activated, and much more. The game makes all the sense from a gameplay perspective. But NO sense at all from a story perspective. The first boss could have easily been defeated if you had the ice beam instead of the soldiers, or were able to use more powerful missiles.

Honestly, it sounds to me like you just couldn't stand the heat in Sector Three. Because heaven forbid, Adam actually has faith in Samus, the galactic savior, to effortlessly do what the player apparently struggles with.

AGAIN, makes sense from a gameplay perspective. No commanding officer would ever force any soldier to lose health forcefully when that soldier is carrying an armor that PREVENTS them from losing health in the first place. It's just not authorized. The authorization of ANY suit whatsoever makes no sense. No sense at all.

Throughout Other M, Samus has cried only once. That was when Adam sacrificed himself.

And not a single tear shed for Anthony. Who actually saved her life instead of shooting her in the back and playing the hero needlessly.

Her grief for the baby was never portrayed as anything greater than a sense of loss, a numbness to the heart. Never once did a tear form. Just as much, Samus never sobbed during the Ridley encounter; only the recollection of herself as a child did. The Samus Aran of the present froze before Ridley, yes, lost her power suit because her focus deteriorated, yes, had Anthony seemingly die because of her own weakness, yes, but quickly got up and wiped the floor with Ridley in the way she had always done.

That "sense of loss, numbness to the heart" was the result of a VERY traumatic experience, which yes, certainly must've involved off-scene crying, or she wouldn't be kicking herself about it years later as if she were to blame for the loss of an entire unit or something. And the "freezing before Ridley" doesn't make any sense. If we're going through Prime canon, she has faced him a zillion times. And if we're going through Super Metroid, even then, she had faced a reencarnation before. It just doesn't make ANY sense at all, much less losing her whole power armor over it, and causing a friend to die.

Could you make up your mind, do you want a battle hardened Samus Aran or not? Guess I should alter my views on your dislike of authorization protocols; you just hate Adam's gut, that's all there is to it.

You think a badass person wouldn't feel a little bit guilty over a person who just died to save their lives? At least much more than the lives of a prick in command and some dead monster?

[Zan]

Bad story/gameplay fixings. You don't walk into a minimal situation zone with your bazooka in tow, do you? But you DO take out your heavy arsenal just as soon as it's easier to defeat enemies with a certain kind of weapon.

But she also disabled movement and defense items of her own accord. God knows what her reasons are, but she does. It isn't all Adam here.

There are plenty of areas in which shortcuts could have been used

That requires a certain prescience not characteristic of the setting. Maybe if they had a map of the Bottle Ship on hand, but as is, Adam's way of exploring the station was well justified.

plenty of enemies in which more powerful weapons could have been activated

At the risk of vaporizing the very people they were trying to save. In the worst case scenario for weapon authorization, shooting through semi-transparent walls makes it all the easier to accidentally hit people. For example, if we had a huge brawl in the room before finding Madeline Bergman, one of Samus' shots could have easily went through the little glass window and killed her.

And not a single tear shed for Anthony. Who actually saved her life instead of shooting her in the back and playing the hero needlessly.

It is sadly realistic that a woman's focus in men isn't the best choice. Maybe Anthony has a better chance at winning over Samus' heart now that Adam is no more, and she saw Adam reflected inside of him.

she wouldn't be kicking herself about it years later as if she were to blame for the loss of an entire unit or something

I don't think that as much time passed as that. At least, that's the impression I got from the intro.

And the "freezing before Ridley" doesn't make any sense. If we're going through Prime canon, she has faced him a zillion times. And if we're going through Super Metroid, even then, she had faced a reencarnation before.

As was discussed on previous pages, the entire premise rides on the complete obliteration of the Space Pirates by Zebes' destruction. There just isn't anyone that would want to revive him; even the Federation scientists didn't include Ridley in the plan. So it came as quite the shock. To make matters worse, there's Mr. Authorization dragging up her tragic past relentlessly and making her all the more vulnerable to a PTSD fall out.

[Bueno Excelente]

But she also disabled movement and defense items of her own accord. God knows what her reasons are, but she does. It isn't all Adam here.

I did say bad gameplay/story fixings, didn't I? The whole game rides on an EXTREMELY bad connection between gameplay and story.

That requires a certain prescience not characteristic of the setting. Maybe if they had a map of the Bottle Ship on hand, but as is, Adam's way of exploring the station was well justified.

He was in the Bottle City's control room. Don't tell me he couldn't find a damn map. Again, it was a bad relationship between gameplay and story.

At the risk of vaporizing the very people they were trying to save. In the worst case scenario for weapon authorization, shooting through semi-transparent walls makes it all the easier to accidentally hit people. For example, if we had a huge brawl in the room before finding Madeline Bergman, one of Samus' shots could have easily went through the little glass window and killed her.

Samus isn't a newbie with a gun. She wasn't going to kill innocent civilians. We're talking about a woman who is given missions to obliterate planets by herself.

It is sadly realistic that a woman's focus in men isn't the best choice. Maybe Anthony has a better chance at winning over Samus' heart now that Adam is no more, and she saw Adam reflected inside of him.

This was never about romance! Geez, you think it's unnatural for a woman to show some grief over the friendliest guy she's ever met in her unit? The guy who SAVED her?

I don't think that as much time passed as that. At least, that's the impression I got from the intro.

Weeks pass, and she's reflecting on the loss of the baby when she gets the distress call. It's typical Bella Swan behaviour.

As was discussed on previous pages, the entire premise rides on the complete obliteration of the Space Pirates by Zebes' destruction. There just isn't anyone that would want to revive him; even the Federation scientists didn't include Ridley in the plan. So it came as quite the shock. To make matters worse, there's Mr. Authorization dragging up her tragic past relentlessly and making her all the more vulnerable to a PTSD fall out.

She didn't flinch when fighting Ridley in much worse conditions. If she DID get shocked by his appearance, it certainly wouldn't be to the extent she got in the game. And like I said, not sacrificing a friend's life in the process.

The whole story just sucks, seriously. Together with taking Prime out of canon, arguably the best Metroid games (IMO), I just have no idea why they did this.

[Zan]

He was in the Bottle City's control room. Don't tell me he couldn't find a damn map. Again, it was a bad relationship between gameplay and story.

Even if there could have been, this is Metroid. There can't be.

Samus isn't a newbie with a gun. She wasn't going to kill innocent civilians. We're talking about a woman who is given missions to obliterate planets by herself.

Considering exactly that planet destroying track record. Sure about that?

This was never about romance!

We all know Samus pretty much lying to herself when it comes to her feelings for Adam.

Geez, you think it's unnatural for a woman to show some grief over the friendliest guy she's ever met in her unit? The guy who SAVED her?

Yet it is strangely fitting for the Samus Aran the internet collective wants her to be.

Weeks pass

But not years.

She didn't flinch when fighting Ridley in much worse conditions.

Which conditions were worse? Theres never been a moment such as this one when she was convinced she had put him behind her, at the same time as Malkovich cracked her emotional exoskeleton.

Together with taking Prime out of canon

I distinctly recall Sakamoto acknowledging Prime as canon.

[Bueno Excelente]

Even if there could have been, this is Metroid. There can't be.

Exactly. Considering the importance the story plays this time around, its relationship with the game is awful.

Considering exactly that planet destroying track record. Sure about that?

She's better trained than all of the soldiers put together. I'd place a bit more trust in her.

We all know Samus pretty much lying to herself when it comes to her feelings for Adam.

No no no, I mean this isn't about romance. Do you ONLY care about the death of the one person you love? This is about her not giving a damn about a character who was distinctly more important to her survival than anyone else.

Yet it is strangely fitting for the Samus Aran the internet collective wants her to be.

You don't understand... this is NOT about Samus being a badass! This is about the woman being an emotional wreck about the baby and Adam, two things which she has all the right NOT to be overemotional about, and then not showing a single emotion about Anthony. It does NOT MAKE SENSE.

But not years.

No, not years. I just remembered alot of time had passed, more than I thought was normal. I had to check the wiki again.

Which conditions were worse? Theres never been a moment such as this one when she was convinced she had put him behind her, at the same time as Malkovich cracked her emotional exoskeleton.

Maybe stepping inside a space station to find everyone dead, and her long-dead arch-nemesis, the leader of the Space Pirates, clutching the last Metroid alive, the one thing that could lead to everything happening all over again? Heck, I think that would have the emotional effect of a World War 2 soldier suddenly seeing Hitler in front of him, carrying a machine to bring back the entire Nazi army back from the grave.

I distinctly recall Sakamoto acknowledging Prime as canon.

His quotes vary from interviews. But if he DOES acknowledge Prime as canon, it's even stupider, because quite alot of things don't make sense. Samus had worked as a team before, had seen Ridley come back PLEEEEEENTY of times, and had seen Metroids in laboratory in MP2 (I don't remember if they had been created there or not).

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

The Metroid labs is from Space Pirates, not the Federation. (in MP2)

[Bueno Excelente]

The Metroid labs is from Space Pirates, not the Federation. (in MP2)

Ah, yes. Then what was it about them saying that Metroids were created in lab for the first time in Other M, or something of that matter? I might be completely wrong, but I think I've heard that before.

[Zan]

Exactly. Considering the importance the story plays this time around, its relationship with the game is awful.

It was a novel idea to steer away from Prime's "I lost my abilities" cliché, and it did work to some degree.

She's better trained than all of the soldiers put together. I'd place a bit more trust in her.

I wouldn't say better trained, about equal, with individual differences. Adam's biggest concern is her weapons being simply too powerful. And when it comes to weapons that spread out to hit a mob of targets, and shoot through glass, thats a very big risk.

No no no, I mean this isn't about romance. Do you ONLY care about the death of the one person you love? This is about her not giving a damn about a character who was distinctly more important to her survival than anyone else.

You don't understand... this is NOT about Samus being a badass! This is about the woman being an emotional wreck about the baby and Adam, two things which she has all the right NOT to be overemotional about, and then not showing a single emotion about Anthony. It does NOT MAKE SENSE.

I don't think you're giving Samus enough credit for her responses to Anthony's death.

Furthermore, you're reversing the order of events here. Samus doesn't become a wreck over Adam until after both the baby and Anthony had already died; the accumulation of all her bottled up emotions, including Ridley.

Other than that, this is a woman raised by birds, looking up to her snarky commanding officer as the "father figure" she never had; she always was a far cry from normal. Anthony in all his kindness just failed to get into Samus' heart beyond another comrade in arms. Just be glad he's got his second chance with her, what with being the sole survivor and all.

Maybe stepping inside a space station to find everyone dead, and her long-dead arch-nemesis, the leader of the Space Pirates, clutching the last Metroid alive, the one thing that could lead to everything happening all over again? Heck, I think that would have the emotional effect of a World War 2 soldier suddenly seeing Hitler in front of him, carrying a machine to bring back the entire Nazi army back from the grave.

All of which only affect the cold-hearted and battle-hardened bounty hunter Samus Aran in her ideal protective surroundings of complete isolation. Never before has any event tried digging into her memories, affecting her human heart like this.

But if he DOES acknowledge Prime as canon, it's even stupider, because quite alot of things don't make sense. Samus had worked as a team before, had seen Ridley come back PLEEEEEENTY of times, and had seen Metroids in laboratory in MP2 (I don't remember if they had been created there or not).

Samus had worked for the Federation as a bounty hunter, which cannot be compared to working under Adam as her direct commanding officer. At best she'd been taking orders from heartless machines like the Auroras.

Ridley was consistently revived by the very Space Pirates that now no longer exist, and Metroids were held in captivity long before they were completely wiped out by Samus on SR388. Besides, why is this last point even an issue with Other M? It was Fusion, before Prime, that introduced the plot point of the Federation recreating the Metroids.

[Bueno Excelente]

It was a novel idea to steer away from Prime's "I lost my abilities" cliché, and it did work to some degree.

Novel idea? Yes. Used in what could be the worst way possibly imaginable? Also yes.

Why not say "Samus left weapons back in her ship", to say she didn't carry around an entire arsenal, and then block her way to the ship with an explosion as soon as she figures out the situation calls for more weapons? Why not say she lost her weapons back at the end of Super Metroid when her suit got damaged, way before the game began? The thing is, it's the most bullshit story element they could have possibly come up with.

I wouldn't say better trained, about equal, with individual differences. Adam's biggest concern is her weapons being simply too powerful. And when it comes to weapons that spread out to hit a mob of targets, and shoot through glass, thats a very big risk.

Yes. Better trained, better at everything those soldiers could possibly do, and aside from Anthony, the only one who didn't die in the mission. And far too much of a professional to hit innocent civilians. Stop taking reasons out of your ass, it is simply a very bad plot point on a very bad story just to justify gameplay.

I don't think you're giving Samus enough credit for her responses to Anthony's death.

I am. I am giving the credit of being a thoughtless [sonic slicer] who whines about a baby Metroid for weeks, enough to be called for a mission while STILL whining about it, and then not giving a [tornado fang] about a good friend dying to save her life.

Furthermore, you're reversing the order of events here. Samus doesn't become a wreck over Adam until after both the baby and Anthony had already died; the accumulation of all her bottled up emotions, including Ridley.

You'll have to explain to me when is she ever NOT a wreck throughout the game.

Other than that, this is a woman raised by birds, looking up to her snarky commanding officer as the "father figure" she never had; she always was a far cry from normal. Anthony in all his kindness just failed to get into Samus' heart beyond another comrade in arms. Just be glad he's got his second chance with her, what with being the sole survivor and all.

I am failing to get into yout thick skull about this.

Irrational being dies after she bonded with it for hours at the most = SAMUS BEING A NERVOUS WRECK FOR WEEKS, MOURNING ENDLESSLY AND ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT IT

One of best friends dying in order to save her life, due to an event that was her fault = Samus goes meh

IT. DOESN'T. MAKE. SENSE. No matter how much emotional connection she had to anyone, it does not make sense and it is horrible storytelling, I do not care in what angle you look at it.

All of which only affect the cold-hearted and battle-hardened bounty hunter Samus Aran in her ideal protective surroundings of complete isolation. Never before has any event tried digging into her memories, affecting her human heart like this.

So being face to face with the beast who killer her family after avenging it, holding the necessary weapon to unleash hell in all cosmos is all cool and doesn't make her break a sweat, but seeing its ugly face again, WHILE talking to her ex on the phone is, like... TOOOTALLY TRAUMATIIIIC!

Bad narrative. Awful story. Horrible writing. Cannot be logically perceived as anything but.

Samus had worked for the Federation as a bounty hunter, which cannot be compared to working under Adam as her direct commanding officer. At best she'd been taking orders from heartless machines like the Auroras.

She says "working as a team". Which had happened before.

Ridley was consistently revived by the very Space Pirates that now no longer exist, and Metroids were held in captivity long before they were completely wiped out by Samus on SR388. Besides, why is this last point even an issue with Other M? It was Fusion, before Prime, that introduced the plot point of the Federation recreating the Metroids.

She had seen every single space pirate being cloned and facing her again. What the hell is so surprising about Ridley being there too?

And Fusion doesn't happen before Prime chronologically, it's still the last Metroid. Null point.


Again, you cannot possibly rationalize horrible storytelling such as this. Romantic feelings do not go in the way of mourning for a comrade who just saved her life, no matter how she saw him. She has no justification for breaking down like a [sonic slicer] EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. It is a horrible, horrible, horrible story.

[Zan]

Why not say "Samus left weapons back in her ship", to say she didn't carry around an entire arsenal, and then block her way to the ship with an explosion as soon as she figures out the situation calls for more weapons?

The fans would still [sonic slicer]. Why would she leave her weapons behind?

Why not say she lost her weapons back at the end of Super Metroid when her suit got damaged, way before the game began? The thing is, it's the most bullshit story element they could have possibly come up with.

Aside from being in contradiction with Super Metroid, that is the Metroid Prime cliché all over again.

I am. I am giving the credit of being a thoughtless [sonic slicer] who whines about a baby Metroid for weeks, enough to be called for a mission while STILL whining about it, and then not giving a [tornado fang] about a good friend dying to save her life.

You're exaggerating the focus the game put on the baby, Samus monologues about it the intro, immediately following Super Metroid. After which its influence is not blatantly obvious until she actually sees another infant Netroid and tries to shoot it. She does not grief, whine, cry, or tear; she only speaks of it with a sense of emptiness and finality. The EXACT same way she speaks of Anthony.

You'll have to explain to me when is she ever NOT a wreck throughout the game.

Her ONLY breakdowns were the Ridley and Adam scenes. Every other time she's been the Samus we've always known.

So being face to face with the beast who killer her family after avenging it, holding the necessary weapon to unleash hell in all cosmos is all cool and doesn't make her break a sweat, but seeing its ugly face again, WHILE talking to her ex on the phone is, like... TOOOTALLY TRAUMATIIIIC!

Again, you don't seem to grasp that Ridley was gone for good; there are no Space Pirates to revive him.

She had seen every single space pirate being cloned and facing her again. What the hell is so surprising about Ridley being there too?

Because Ridley, making the Zebesians into Space Pirates, represents everything the Federation would not want. They can control the Zebesians, but not Ridley. Furthermore, neither the Federation, nor Samus, knew Little Birdie to be Ridley.

She says "working as a team". Which had happened before.

She said, and I quote "first joint mission since becoming a freelance bounty hunter" and "first time since my Federation days that I was following the orders of a commanding officer." Both of which are true; in Prime3 she still acted on her own, without a commanding officer.

And Fusion doesn't happen before Prime chronologically, it's still the last Metroid. Null point.

Except, both Other M and Fusion occur in the same timeframe; after the Metroids are extinct. Your critic of Metroids in Other M is actually directed at Fusion.

[Bueno Excelente]

The fans would still [sonic slicer]. Why would she leave her weapons behind?

Aside from being in contradiction with Super Metroid, that is the Metroid Prime cliché all over again.

You're exaggerating the focus the game put on the baby, Samus monologues about it the intro, immediately following Super Metroid. After which its influence is not blatantly obvious until she actually sees another infant Netroid and tries to shoot it. She does not grief, whine, cry, or tear; she only speaks of it with a sense of emptiness and finality. The EXACT same way she speaks of Anthony.

Her ONLY breakdowns were the Ridley and Adam scenes. Every other time she's been the Samus we've always known.

Again, you don't seem to grasp that Ridley was gone for good; there are no Space Pirates to revive him.

Because Ridley, making the Zebesians into Space Pirates, represents everything the Federation would not want. They can control the Zebesians, but not Ridley. Furthermore, neither the Federation, nor Samus, knew Little Birdie to be Ridley.


She said, and I quote "first joint mission since becoming a freelance bounty hunter" and "first time since my Federation days that I was following the orders of a commanding officer." Both of which are true; in Prime3 she still acted on her own, without a commanding officer.

Except, both Other M and Fusion occur in the same timeframe; after the Metroids are extinct. Your critic of Metroids in Other M is actually directed at Fusion.

Quote tags be damned.

Cliché = Better than what we got, which was [parasitic bomb]

She keeps monologuing it for weeks, all by herself. That is crazy [sonic slicer] talk.

Yeah, same Samus we've ever known. Completewith livejournal entries, moistness whenever she sees Adam and complete subservience to superior male.

Sure there were Space Pirates. They've been appearing all through the game. All of her old enemies. She's be hella dumb if she didn't predict Ridley to pop up along with them.

Suuuuuuuure they can control the Zebesians. That's why they took over the ship, right? Cloning Mother Brain was a MASTERPLAN as well. SHITTY WRITING. NO POSSIBLE JUSTIFICATION.

She had a joint mission before. Can't remember if the dudes in MP3 were in the Federation. Since being "under the command of a superior" [tornado fang]'d up the game, I'd say it's something bad.

Then it's even stupider. If the issue was raised in Fusion, why would it be raised BEFORE?

[Kieran]

Oh for [tornado fang]'s sake, this thread is becoming a goddamned train wreck.

[Jericho]

This discussion is both old as [tornado fang] and annoying. Can we agree to disagree on things and move it along? I'd prefer not to close the only Metroid thread on RPM right now.