Topic: Metroid Discussion Thread

[Rin]

I'd prefer not to close the only Metroid thread on RPM right now.

Why would you lock it? Because there are people who actually DISCUSS their POINTS OF VIEW about the game?
This is a nice change, methinks, because usually (but not necessarily) these kind of threads contain only HEY I LIKE THIS ABOUT THIS GAME HEY ME TOO ME TOO I ALSO LIKE THIS WEEEE STUPID BAKA HATERS!

C'mon... if they want to argue about what's better or worse, then let them do it until they finally sort it out, or just give up.

Meh.

[Fxeni]

Heh, "becoming".

Anywho, I'm looking forward to that fan-made Metroid 2 remake. It seems interesting enough.

[Jericho]

Why would you lock it? Because there are people who actually DISCUSS their POINTS OF VIEW about the game?
This is a nice change, methinks, because usually (but not necessarily) these kind of threads contain only HEY I LIKE THIS ABOUT THIS GAME HEY ME TOO ME TOO I ALSO LIKE THIS WEEEE STUPID BAKA HATERS!

C'mon... if they want to argue about what's better or worse, then let them do it until they finally sort it out, or just give up.

Meh.

Sorry, maybe I should have been a little more specific about that although anyone who is familiar with me should know the only circumstances where I make maneuvers or statements like that.

Now then, for the last few pages or so, we've seen both sides of the argument and have numerous well posted and thought out comments on the issue of what made Other M's story doubleplus ungood/a good premise with bad execution(s). I have nothing against that. It's the melting down of Flash as well as the general inability to continue this argument (on both sides) without heated words & sentiments that's causing me to crack down. Admittedly, this is Flash's MO brutally honest and biting to get the point across and I'm pretty used to it even if I don't agree with the approach regularly. In the effort to kinda calm things down though, this of this as more of a reset. Go back to the tone it was before the last three or so posts on both sides of this equation (even if you had a point) and everything's good.

[Flame]

Cliché = Better than what we got, which was [parasitic bomb]

When it gets to the point where one of the biggest metroid "memes" dare I say; Is about how Samus will always lose her upgrades if a pebble so much as brushes her foot during a new mission, then not really.

She keeps monologuing it for weeks, all by herself. That is crazy [sonic slicer] talk.

I recall only monologues being right after she is picked up by the federation in the intro and tutorial, which is pretty much right after Super Metroid, and is the first time she has been conscious since her fight with Mother Brain.

Then she gets a "baby's cry" distress signal, the name of which reminds her of what happened very recently.

After that, she sees a baby metroid near the end of the game, and is reminded of her meeting with the other baby metroid. she isnt monologing at this point, simply contemplating.

Yeah, same Samus we've ever known. Completewith livejournal entries, moistness whenever she sees Adam and complete subservience to superior male.

Somebody missed the point about EXCLUDING ADAM AND RIDLEY from the equation. Without Adam and Ridely, around, Samus is the same Samus as usual, killing alien species in isolation.

Sure there were Space Pirates. They've been appearing all through the game. All of her old enemies. She's be hella dumb if she didn't predict Ridley to pop up along with them.

I recall the space pirates only coming up after they learned that The federation was cloning them for some reason. Thats no reason to believe Ridley is there too. Why the hell would they clone the one who can control them against the Federation? From their perspectives, thats how it is. Federation was simply cloning the pirates, to have soldiers.

Suuuuuuuure they can control the Zebesians. That's why they took over the ship, right? Cloning Mother Brain was a MASTERPLAN as well. SHITTY WRITING. NO POSSIBLE JUSTIFICATION.

They took over only when MB turned against the ship. Also, do mind she only went bad because she thought she had been betrayed. She began to develop emotuons, and was criticizing things. So naturally, what do you do when a robot is making you butthurt? Try to reprogram it! *Of course.jpg* And that made it worse. But she is still a robot, and after she went bad, it was too late. she had already decided that her answer was logically correct. the Humans had to be "punished".

If say... Scientists hadnt been asshats to the damn robot that was only trying to do what she thought was right, then the [parasitic bomb] that went down on the Bottle ship might not have happened. I say Might of course, because Ridley was still there, meaning eventually he might have attacked and then led the Pirates to revolt.

Also, dont forget the Auroras. they are even MORE blatant Mother Brain clones. or did you forget the blueprint trailer showing what totally looks like the final stage of Metroid? (AKA Mother Brain's room) They worked rather well. Only problem was when they were kidnapped due to their lack of mobility or defense. And even then, Its safe to assume that after 3, they STILL use he remaining Auroras.

She had a joint mission before. Can't remember if the dudes in MP3 were in the Federation. Since being "under the command of a superior" [tornado fang]'d up the game, I'd say it's something bad.

What, you mean the bounty hunters? They arent federation. And shes never had a joint federation mission before Other M, unless you count lending a helping hand to the federation base, even though she was simply hired to do that. The only OTHER joint mission was the beginning of Fusion where she gets infected by X. But even that was just a job to escort the scientists. (and defend them if necessary)


BTW, you mentioned earlier, Super Metroid's intro with Ridley to be worse? Like Zan said, thats in her ideal surroundings. And even then, we never got ANY characteriation from Samus. Even when the baby dies. The only emotions are the one that the player feels, and assumes Samus does too, since we ARE Samus.

meanwhile, while she is already facing a VERY unexpected emotional situation, since she was unprepared to run into Adam, She sees Ridley rising from the fire, in what is a very obvious metaphor for Ridley rising from the firely pits of Hell for Samus, when she also did not expect to ever see him again either, ESPECIALLY after destroying the space pirates that would bring him back. There was just no way he could have come back. So, she recently had a sad experience with the baby, which she was just about getting over, then she unexpectedly runs into Adam, catching her off guard and dragging back up unpleasant and conflicted memories and emotions, and THEN, to top it off, Her arch Nemesis returns from Hell itself. In this case, Ridley was the final stresser. She couldnt take the pressure, and cracked. ALL of those factors influenced her PTSD meltdown.

Flash, did you read the rest of this thread? we have already discussed ALL of this to hell and back....

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

Ah, yes. Then what was it about them saying that Metroids were created in lab for the first time in Other M, or something of that matter? I might be completely wrong, but I think I've heard that before.

Not much the first time, but pretty much a first from the actions of the Federation itself to breed Metroids and have them as Bioweapons.

There is a bit more on that from what Adam said in Sector 0, but, why bother?

[Zan]

Yeah, same Samus we've ever known. Completewith livejournal entries, moistness whenever she sees Adam and complete subservience to superior male.

Feel free to review Metroid Fusion's script.

Sure there were Space Pirates. They've been appearing all through the game. All of her old enemies. She's be hella dumb if she didn't predict Ridley to pop up along with them.

She was chasing Little Birdie; neither Samus nor the player had any indication he would turn out to be Ridley, even if they knew in advance Ridley was in the game.

Then it's even stupider. If the issue was raised in Fusion, why would it be raised BEFORE?

In Fusion, a copy of SR-388's environment could be find on board the research station. Later on, it is also shown the Federation had been breeding Metroids in a restricted area, and using SR-388's environment to evolve Metroids from Alpha to Omega. It is implicated by Adam that Samus already suspected this project existed the moment she saw the copy of SR-388. Other M ties into this by having Samus learn of exactly one such a plot, justifying the events of Fusion.

while she is already facing a VERY unexpected emotional situation, since she was unprepared to run into Adam,

Not just Adam either, she was also shaken up thinking Anthony might be the Deleter.

[Bueno Excelente]

When it gets to the point where one of the biggest metroid "memes" dare I say; Is about how Samus will always lose her upgrades if a pebble so much as brushes her foot during a new mission, then not really.

So according to that logic, it's better to do something original that works really bad, than something cliché that works well?

I recall only monologues being right after she is picked up by the federation in the intro and tutorial, which is pretty much right after Super Metroid, and is the first time she has been conscious since her fight with Mother Brain.

Then she gets a "baby's cry" distress signal, the name of which reminds her of what happened very recently.

After that, she sees a baby metroid near the end of the game, and is reminded of her meeting with the other baby metroid. she isnt monologing at this point, simply contemplating.

All her monologue makes her seem like a whiny [sonic slicer] who cannot possibly live without Adam. Not to mention dwelling on the baby's death for WEEKS.

Somebody missed the point about EXCLUDING ADAM AND RIDLEY from the equation. Without Adam and Ridely, around, Samus is the same Samus as usual, killing alien species in isolation.

Which is the problem in itself. Why should she be reduced to a pathetic garbling [sonic slicer] who feels like she has to obey to every single order Adam gives? Why should she be like that? She doesn't behave professionally. She doesn't behave like a veteran (which she is after all she's been through) and she definetly doesn't behave like someone who actually has been through what she has.

I recall the space pirates only coming up after they learned that The federation was cloning them for some reason. Thats no reason to believe Ridley is there too. Why the hell would they clone the one who can control them against the Federation? From their perspectives, thats how it is. Federation was simply cloning the pirates, to have soldiers.
They took over only when MB turned against the ship. Also, do mind she only went bad because she thought she had been betrayed. She began to develop emotuons, and was criticizing things. So naturally, what do you do when a robot is making you butthurt? Try to reprogram it! *Of course.jpg* And that made it worse. But she is still a robot, and after she went bad, it was too late. she had already decided that her answer was logically correct. the Humans had to be "punished".
If say... Scientists hadnt been asshats to the damn robot that was only trying to do what she thought was right, then the [parasitic bomb] that went down on the Bottle ship might not have happened. I say Might of course, because Ridley was still there, meaning eventually he might have attacked and then led the Pirates to revolt.

Let me put it this way. If you walk into a laboratory and you see Goombas and Koopa Troopas coming out of vats, you obviously can be damn sure Bowser's gonna be at the end of the room in the biggest vat of all.

If they were amazingly stupid enough to make MB and fall into the most clichéd, the most overused, the most obvious plot point in ALL OF SCIENCE FICTION.

- Create intelligent being/computer superior to us- Teach it to think by itself
- Honoes, it's betraying us! How did we not see this coming?

It was good back in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Not anymore.

Also, dont forget the Auroras. they are even MORE blatant Mother Brain clones. or did you forget the blueprint trailer showing what totally looks like the final stage of Metroid? (AKA Mother Brain's room) They worked rather well. Only problem was when they were kidnapped due to their lack of mobility or defense. And even then, Its safe to assume that after 3, they STILL use he remaining Auroras.
What, you mean the bounty hunters? They arent federation. And shes never had a joint federation mission before Other M, unless you count lending a helping hand to the federation base, even though she was simply hired to do that. The only OTHER joint mission was the beginning of Fusion where she gets infected by X. But even that was just a job to escort the scientists. (and defend them if necessary)

My mistake on that part, then.

BTW, you mentioned earlier, Super Metroid's intro with Ridley to be worse? Like Zan said, thats in her ideal surroundings. And even then, we never got ANY characteriation from Samus. Even when the baby dies. The only emotions are the one that the player feels, and assumes Samus does too, since we ARE Samus.

And like I said before, I'm completely okay with them giving her pretty much any characterization at all. I did not see her as a badass bounty hunter before, and I did not see her as an amazing character in any way. I saw her exactly like Link and Mario. Characters who don't say a word for most of the time and do things because they need to be done. What I'm arguing, is that the story of Other M is awful, and it is a very, very, veeeeery bad way to tie the gameplay together. You can clearly see that while they refer to many past events and include alot of old bosses for fan appeal, the story in itself has the quality of fanfiction. And whoever wrote it is a horrible writer and should stick with keeping Metroid mostly without a plot.

meanwhile, while she is already facing a VERY unexpected emotional situation, since she was unprepared to run into Adam,

This is what I got a problem with. She shouldn't transform into a shambling, drooling human being with a fetish for submission when she sees Adam. He did NOT have that much of an effect on her through all that happened.

She sees Ridley rising from the fire, in what is a very obvious metaphor for Ridley rising from the firely pits of Hell for Samus

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you're giving Nintendo waaaaaay too much credit. Why was Ridley in a lava room? Because boss fights in lava rooms are hella rad. Moving on.

when she also did not expect to ever see him again either, ESPECIALLY after destroying the space pirates that would bring him back. There was just no way he could have come back.

You know, just like the last hundred times she ran into pirates and destroyed them all. That logic doesn't make sense, because Nintendo just doesn't think that far in terms of story. Specially in a story with the Hal 9000 plot twist.

So, she recently had a sad experience with the baby, which she was just about getting over, then she unexpectedly runs into Adam, catching her off guard and dragging back up unpleasant and conflicted memories and emotions, and THEN, to top it off, Her arch Nemesis returns from Hell itself. In this case, Ridley was the final stresser. She couldnt take the pressure, and cracked. ALL of those factors influenced her PTSD meltdown.

All of which are completely pathetic, completely normal factors for someone like Samus, and her overreactions further destroy her character completely.

Flash, did you read the rest of this thread? we have already discussed ALL of this to hell and back....

Yes. I'm not arguing against story facts. I'm arguing against this story making any sense at all. Because it's a tale of cliché plots, amazingly badly-crafted characters and the least amount of ambiance from any Metroid game so far. No matter how much people argue, there's simply no way they thought of stuff this thoroughly. Just as they had never created a personality for Samus before. Just like the Zelda games aren't all interconnected in a gigantic timeline with small details in the story somehow bringing them all together.

This isn't a JJ Abrams show. It's a Nintendo game.

[Zan]

Which is the problem in itself. Why should she be reduced to a pathetic garbling [sonic slicer] who feels like she has to obey to every single order Adam gives? Why should she be like that? She doesn't behave professionally. She doesn't behave like a veteran (which she is after all she's been through) and she definetly doesn't behave like someone who actually has been through what she has.

How is following orders from your commanding officer not the way you're supposed to behave in a military operation?

Let me put it this way. If you walk into a laboratory and you see Goombas and Koopa Troopas coming out of vats, you obviously can be damn sure Bowser's gonna be at the end of the room in the biggest vat of all.

Being that genre-savvy is only for us players, not the characters themselves.

If they were amazingly stupid enough to make MB and fall into the most clichéd, the most overused, the most obvious plot point in ALL OF SCIENCE FICTION.

MB's creation was well justified; to control the Metroids.

This is what I got a problem with. She shouldn't transform into a shambling, drooling human being with a fetish for submission when she sees Adam. He did NOT have that much of an effect on her through all that happened.

Funny, I don't recall any instance of what you describe.  She simply followed mission orders and had no objections, because, you know, she agreed with Adam.

[Bueno Excelente]

How is following orders from your commanding officer not the way you're supposed to behave in a military operation?

Being that genre-savvy is only for us players, not the characters themselves.

MB's creation was well justified; to control the Metroids.

Funny, I don't recall any instance of what you describe.  She simply followed mission orders and had no objections.

She didn't just follow orders. She had threats to her life happening all the time and went through unnecessary danger and tactical things that made no sense whatsoever simply because her commanding officer was an idiot. An idiot who kept risking her life. An idiot who shot her so he could have a shitty heroic role and be forcefully redeemed in the eyes of the player.

And honestly, I don't care. If she had seen every single old enemy of hers come back so far, what the hell was so surprising about Ridley? What the hell was so surprising, and amazing about him that she didn't expect her ONE ENEMY WHO ALWAYS COMES BACK to... you know... COME BACK.

Oh, yes. BRILLIANT. "Hey, let's clone an evil army. But how should we have total control over them? I mean, they're evil, they might betray us. Hey, let's clone an evil genius mastermind to control that army! Man, they'll never betray us then!" Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. And overused. And predictable. And completely nonsensical at all.

The whole game is so damn hamfisted, I have no idea how anyone swallows it without slapping their foreheads with a sigh.

[Zan]

She had threats to her life happening all the time and went through unnecessary danger and tactical things that made no sense whatsoever simply because her commanding officer was an idiot. An idiot who kept risking her life.

The game never puts her through unnecessary danger. Everything immediately prior to authorization would be a walk in the park for Samus Aran.

An idiot who shot her so he could have a shitty heroic role and be forcefully redeemed in the eyes of the player.

There are plenty of reasons why Adam shot her in the back, including her confrontation with an infant Metroid reminiscent of the one from Super Metroid. If her power suit collapsed from a mere Federation hand-gun, then definitely she wasn't in the state of mind to handle it.

And honestly, I don't care. If she had seen every single old enemy of hers come back so far, what the hell was so surprising about Ridley? What the hell was so surprising, and amazing about him that she didn't expect her ONE ENEMY WHO ALWAYS COMES BACK to... you know... COME BACK.

In many ways, it's a case of denial. Because she wants to put him behind her, and Zebes' destruction gave her an inkling of hope.

Oh, yes. BRILLIANT. "Hey, let's clone an evil army. But how should we have total control over them? I mean, they're evil, they might betray us. Hey, let's clone an evil genius mastermind to control that army! Man, they'll never betray us then!" Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. And overused. And predictable. And completely nonsensical at all.

Neither the Zebesians, nor Mother Brain, are evil by default. Ridley, now that's another story.

[Bueno Excelente]

The game never puts her through unnecessary danger. Everything immediately prior to authorization would be a walk in the park for Samus Aran.

There are plenty of reasons why Adam shot her in the back, including her confrontation with an infant Metroid reminiscent of the one from Super Metroid. If her power suit collapsed from a mere Federation hand-gun, then definitely she wasn't in the state of mind to handle it.

In many ways, it's a case of denial. Because she wants to put him behind her, and Zebes' destruction gave her an inkling of hope.

Neither the Zebesians, nor Mother Brain, are evil by default. Ridley, now that's another story.

I don't think you know what "unnecessary danger" is. Of course she could get out of that situation. But she didn't have to be in it. I don't care if you're the most experient soldier in the world, you don't go fighting a faraway enemy with a knife while you have a gun in your belt. It was unnecessary. Not required. The only reason it happened, was gameplay. And the story failed to make sense of it.

She asks him why he did. He avoids the question and then goes on to be a hero. So she couldn't confront an enemy, she gets SHOT IN THE BACK before she even does anything? It's stupid. It's completely and utterly stupid, he had absolutely no reason to shoot her. Let him shoot the Metroid, or tell her to stand down, seeing as she obeys his every word.

Denial? Hope? Stop taking things out of your ass that just aren't there! She killed him time and time again. She can just kill him once more.

And the "evil by default" thing is VERY questionable, not to mention completely ass-pulled, like most of your arguments here. You're pulling all kinds of justifications for characters who don't even act human. And you're not making any sense.

[Zan]

I don't think you know what "unnecessary danger" is. Of course she could get out of that situation. But she didn't have to be in it. I don't care if you're the most experient soldier in the world, you don't go fighting a faraway enemy with a knife while you have a gun in your belt. It was unnecessary. Not required. The only reason it happened, was gameplay. And the story failed to make sense of it.

Once again, you exaggerate what the game actually puts you through.

She asks him why he did. He avoids the question and then goes on to be a hero. So she couldn't confront an enemy, she gets SHOT IN THE BACK before she even does anything? It's stupid. It's completely and utterly stupid, he had absolutely no reason to shoot her. Let him shoot the Metroid, or tell her to stand down, seeing as she obeys his every word.

Samus would sure as hell stop Adam from making the Sector Zero sacrifice, if she still had her power suit on.

Denial? Hope? Stop taking things out of your ass that just aren't there! She killed him time and time again. She can just kill him once more.

Her thoughts on Ridley's death were given early on. At last she had destroyed her long standing nemesis. It's only naturally she would not want to even contemplate the possibility of his return.

And the "evil by default" thing is VERY questionable, not to mention completely ass-pulled, like most of your arguments here. You're pulling all kinds of justifications for characters who don't even act human. And you're not making any sense.

Maybe you should have payed more attention to the story instead of moaning about it as you went along; the Zebesians without a leader are just feral creatures. They are a blank slate to control.

Likewise, Melissa was very much alike a young girl, with every potential future ahead of her. Had she been treated with kindness, and not as a tool, the Metroid operation could have succeeded without incident. The only monkey-wrench inevitably thrown into the equation is Ridley.

[Flame]

Not to mention the only reason Mother brain ever even became "evil" is because she is a cold, emotionless logical being who came to her decision almost entirely logically. She also wasnt evil by default simply for the fact that she was made by the Chozo, who as we know, are pretty peaceful.

Mother Brain herself is basically the Hal 9000 stereotype you were complaining about, Flash.

In fact, I think even the Auroras have more personality. But perhaps thats simply because Mother brain never got the chance to speak or do anything other than be a boss. Hmm. Although, no, the Manga confirms it pretty much, she is a cold emotionless thing. With very little personality.

[Bueno Excelente]

Once again, you exaggerate what the game actually puts you through.

Samus would sure as hell stop Adam from making the Sector Zero sacrifice, if she still had her power suit on.

Brilliant to shoot her right when she was next to a Metroid.

Her thoughts on Ridley's death were given early on. At last she had destroyed her long standing nemesis. It's only naturally she would not want to even contemplate the possibility of his return.

Natural she wouldn't want to in any of the times he came back. But you just know he'll return in the next Metroid game. And for Samus to make that reaction, is just stupid.

Maybe you should have payed more attention to the story instead of moaning about it as you went along; the Zebesians without a leader are just feral creatures. They are a blank slate to control.

Thing which can be said about pretty much any sort of animal. But to attempt to control a species like that, that has been a source of danger so many times, and to replicate what controlled them directly, was just stupid.

Likewise, Melissa was very much alike a young girl, with every potential future ahead of her. Had she been treated with kindness, and not as a tool, the Metroid operation could have succeeded without incident. The only monkey-wrench inevitably thrown into the equation is Ridley.

She was MOTHER BRAIN. They replicated an entity which had turned evil before. What the hell did they expect to happen? It's the biggest cliché in "evil science experiment" there is. The whole game is a bunch of clichés badly tied together, with a story which would make even Michael Bay leave the room in complete and total agony.

[Flame]

She was MOTHER BRAIN. They replicated an entity which had turned evil before. What the hell did they expect to happen? It's the biggest cliché in "evil science experiment" there is. The whole game is a bunch of clichés badly tied together, with a story which would make even Michael Bay leave the room in complete and total agony.

I repeat. The Auroras are also Mother Brains. They are just fine.

Mother Brain herself is a HAL 9000 cliche. If we are to assume that the Primes happened in relation to other M, then considering that the Aurora Units were a success, why wouldn't they try to go the next step, and basically make a version with a body and emotions?

Because surely,if anything can keep her from coming to the same conclusion that drove Mother Brain to her position, it is Human emotions. And for the most part, they worked. Until they betrayed her and tried to reprogram her. As a robot with not quite the grasp on emotions that Bergman would have hoped, she wants revenge. Only in her twisted vision, this revenge is against Humanity in general.

She didnt go bad because she was Mother Brain, she went bad because she became twisted with anger. Of course, abandoning her emotions by that point. If they hadnt pulled a dick move on her, she wouldnt have snapped.

Also, come on. This is the federation. The ones who actually tried to use a potentially GALAXY ending lifeform as a biological weapon.

The ones who despite the disaster aboard th Bottle Ship, still went ahead and decided to keep on making bioweapons, AND TAKE RIDLEY ALONG WITH THEM.

[Bueno Excelente]

I repeat. The Auroras are also Mother Brains. They are just fine.

Mother Brain herself is a HAL 9000 cliche. If we are to assume that the Primes happened in relation to other M, then considering that the Aurora Units were a success, why wouldn't they try to go the next step, and basically make a version with a body and emotions?

Because surely,if anything can keep her from coming to the same conclusion that drove Mother Brain to her position, it is Human emotions. And for the most part, they worked. Until they betrayed her and tried to reprogram her. As a robot with not quite the grasp on emotions that Bergman would have hoped, she wants revenge. Only in her twisted vision, this revenge is against Humanity in general.

She didnt go bad because she was Mother Brain, she went bad because she became twisted with anger. Of course, abandoning her emotions by that point. If they hadnt pulled a dick move on her, she wouldnt have snapped.

Also, come on. This is the federation. The ones who actually tried to use a potentially GALAXY ending lifeform as a biological weapon.

The ones who despite the disaster aboard th Bottle Ship, still went ahead and decided to keep on making bioweapons, AND TAKE RIDLEY ALONG WITH THEM.

The Auroras don't have evidence of being connected to Mother Brain other than their look. They're organic computers, that's all. The Federation basically tried to replicate the brilliance of a Mother Brain-like computer through their own science, nothing wrong with that, and they ended up being corrupted. They didn't hit us over the head with them. It's different than straight-up cloning Hitler along with his entire army in a science base which could be easily overpowered. It's every single cliché in the "evil creation" book at once. Mother Brain herself was HAL 9000, but it wasn't slapped over our heads in any other game. It was simply... hey, "organics suck and are straight-up illogical, what's up with that?" In Other M, they basically decided to make her a kawaii uguu girl who was defied and treated wrong, even though she had a direct link with the pirates. The scientists basically did the stupidest thing they could have possibly done. By adding human emotion (we can see how well HUMAN EMOTION fits girls in this universe, it turns them into straight up bitches) and then angering Mother Brain directly and treating it like a kid, what the hell could that have led to? Why did they even HAVE that conflict in the story? It was the most obvious thing there. The only thing missing was to make her wear a schoolgirl uniform or some crap. If you want to know how to do a Hal 9000 plot right, play System Shock 2, for example. Hell, even Portal does it right. But this? This is just wrong, wrong, wrong wrong on so many degrees.

And about Ridley, sure, you're only helping my argument. The feds basically used him AGAIN after all the crap that happened. Making it obvious that realistically, they would have cloned him this time 'round too, even if they didn't know he was a birdy. Samus didn't [acid burst] her pants and barf uncontrollably then. Oh, and she actually FINISHED HIM. On every other game I might say, instead of letting him escape like a retard.

[Align]

Technically he was dead and frozen stiff, so you know, how could it go wrong?
"Magic parasites that copy DNA and turn into the creature whole?"
"Don't be [tornado fang]ing ridiculous, man."

[Bueno Excelente]

Ridley is always going to come back. Always. Like Ganon(dorf), or Sigma, it is impossible to kill the bastard. He's gonna keep on coming.

By the way, can anyone tell me if any of you remember EVER seeing any female character whatsoever breaking down like a total spaz in such a way? In ANY game whatsoever. There must be some examples in JRPGs, since subservient woman roles are everywhere in Japan, but I don't really remember anything.

[Jericho]

Ridley is always going to come back. Always. Like Ganon(dorf), or Sigma, it is impossible to kill the bastard. He's gonna keep on coming.

By the way, can anyone tell me if any of you remember EVER seeing any female character whatsoever breaking down like a total spaz in such a way? In ANY game whatsoever. There must be some examples in JRPGs, since subservient woman roles are everywhere in Japan, but I don't really remember anything.

To the above, yup. It's one of the reasons why the PTSD episode in Other M makes a bit of sense even if it was exaggerated greatly. Samus thought that after [tornado fang]ing his [parasitic bomb] up in Super that should have been game set match. I mean seriously, she blew him up then blew up the planet his remains were on. There shouldn't have been enough of him to pick up in a Swiffer in her mind. Seeing him come back once more after all of that had to have been a "[tornado fang], HOW are you still alive?!" moment that'd cause anyone to wonder if he could ever be completely put down.

As for the second, what a loaded question. I could play a really mean card right now and ask if all of a sudden it's suddenly "not okay" to portray women having nervous breakdowns especially when one neglects the context of said panic attack. Furthermore, the way you talk about it made it sound like she went and hid herself in her hidey-hole or a kitchen curled up in the fetal position after being confronted by Ridley when in reality, she snapped right the [tornado fang] out of it and beat the hell out of him once again within a few seconds of realizing "oh yeah, it's Ridley. Lock 'n load." It's unrealistic to see a character just charging through everything (within the context of a story, gameplay is a different thing) without relenting or considering the events that led to a confrontation like this you know, but at the very least Other M's reason makes sense.

[Bueno Excelente]

To the above, yup. It's one of the reasons why the PTSD episode in Other M makes a bit of sense even if it was exaggerated greatly. Samus thought that after [tornado fang]ing his [parasitic bomb] up in Super that should have been game set match. I mean seriously, she blew him up then blew up the planet his remains were on. There shouldn't have been enough of him to pick up in a Swiffer in her mind. Seeing him come back once more after all of that had to have been a "[tornado fang], HOW are you still alive?!" moment that'd cause anyone to wonder if he could ever be completely put down.

As for the second, what a loaded question. I could play a really mean card right now and ask if all of a sudden it's suddenly "not okay" to portray women having nervous breakdowns especially when one neglects the context of said panic attack. Furthermore, the way you talk about it made it sound like she went and hid herself in her hidey-hole or a kitchen curled up in the fetal position after being confronted by Ridley when in reality, she snapped right the [tornado fang] out of it and beat the hell out of him once again within a few seconds of realizing "oh yeah, it's Ridley. Lock 'n load." It's unrealistic to see a character just charging through everything (within the context of a story, gameplay is a different thing) without relenting or considering the events that led to a confrontation like this you know, but at the very least Other M's reason makes sense.

It still doesn't. Hell, look at all of the times Samus faced him before. I wouldn't mind in the slightest bit if she went "No! RIDLEY!" And froze for a bit before turning towards him and fighting. But she went into total spaz mode and needed Adam's shouts and Anthony's death to snap out of it. It's not normal behavior. And not in the least bit justified. It is exactly because she's faced him so many times that she should be more used to the situation. Heck, these situations have been portrayed SO MANY TIMES throughout games. Look at MGS4's ending, in which Snake looks completely BAFFLED, after having killed a dude two times, having his remains blown up and thrown apart everywhere, and pretty much decrepit as hell, few months to live, having almost commited suicide. And he CAN STILL GET HIS GUN AND POINT IT. Same with Liquid. If Samus wasn't such a worthless human being in cutscenes and characteirzation, maybe we could have had a good character.

[Zan]

Which is not what the game put you through, stop exaggerating.

Brilliant to shoot her right when she was next to a Metroid.

A Metroid he promptly took care of, without having Samus suffer the baby's death by her own accord this time around.

Natural she wouldn't want to in any of the times he came back. But you just know he'll return in the next Metroid game. And for Samus to make that reaction, is just stupid.

Funny, I don't recall Ridley being in every Metroid game.

Thing which can be said about pretty much any sort of animal. But to attempt to control a species like that, that has been a source of danger so many times, and to replicate what controlled them directly, was just stupid.

A species that lends itself to being easily controlled due to their hive-mind mentality.

She was MOTHER BRAIN. They replicated an entity which had turned evil before. What the hell did they expect to happen?

Even ignoring your complete and utter misunderstanding of how cloning works; she's a computer. If you don't want her evil, don't program her to be.

it wasn't slapped over our heads in any other game.

The other games didn't have a narrative to slap over our heads with.

In Other M, they basically decided to make her a kawaii uguu girl

Perfectly justified by the Federation mimicking the baby's reaction to Samus. You'd rather they make MB resemble a Metroid Queen?

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

It still doesn't. Hell, look at all of the times Samus faced him before. I wouldn't mind in the slightest bit if she went "No! RIDLEY!" And froze for a bit before turning towards him and fighting. But she went into total spaz mode and needed Adam's shouts and Anthony's death to snap out of it. It's not normal behavior. And not in the least bit justified. It is exactly because she's faced him so many times that she should be more used to the situation. Heck, these situations have been portrayed SO MANY TIMES throughout games. Look at MGS4's ending, in which Snake looks completely BAFFLED, after having killed a dude two times, having his remains blown up and thrown apart everywhere, and pretty much decrepit as hell, few months to live, having almost commited suicide. And he CAN STILL GET HIS GUN AND POINT IT. Same with Liquid. If Samus wasn't such a worthless human being in cutscenes and characteirzation, maybe we could have had a good character.

If only those Lethal Strikes are non-canon 

And Adam wasn't shouting when Samus snapped out of her reccuring nightmare/cracking bottled up ship/feelings/panic attack upon Ridley.  He got busy w/ Ja-Deleter.

[Bueno Excelente]

Which is not what the game put you through, stop exaggerating.

A Metroid he promptly took care of, without having Samus suffer the baby's death by her own accord this time around.

Funny, I don't recall Ridley being in every Metroid game.

A species that lends itself to being easily controlled due to their hive-mind mentality.

Even ignoring your complete and utter misunderstanding of how cloning works; she's a computer. If you don't want her evil, don't program her to be.

The other games didn't have a narrative to slap over our heads with.

Perfectly justified by the Federation mimicking the baby's reaction to Samus. You'd rather they make MB resemble a Metroid Queen?

The game shouldn't have to put you through any situation where you have to lose health at all if you actually own the health-keeping item in the first place. BAD STORYTELLING. It's the equivalent of making a soldier take non-lethal bullets in his chest when he's carrying a kevlar around. It is, put simply, bad storytelling. They could have just said Adam had access to her suit or something, and he was the only one to be able to activate the upgrades. But they didn't. He let Samus go through a whole section of health-losing while she could have perfectly put a suit upgrade on. A suit upgrade that didn't make any difference if she had it on or not, because it was not a weapon, or transportation mechanism. It was a [tornado fang]ing suit upgrade. By this point, you're either trolling me, or you're really damn clueless. I'm honestly not discussing this point any further.

He wasn't. He was in most of them, though. And we should expect him to be in one rather than not.

Perfect species to control through the means of cloning evil entities, huh?

You're both implying that cloning in Nintendo works at the level or actual cloning, and that a computer is anything without its programming. You honestly think they went that far in terms of characterization? Oh, and she was previously programmed to be evil, huh? The Chozo, masters of technological superiority, programmed a superior computer and it turned evil. Oh, the humans shall SURELY SUCCEED AT THIS. And before you start calling it a metaphor on human arrogance because the game has suuuuuuch a good story, I'll just say it's not arrogance. It is prime stupidity.

The other games had minimal story, which suited the Metroid series best. However, if you want a story, you better make it good. This was not good.

What? What does it have to do with the Metroids? They made her a kawaii uguu girl because they're japanese and they eat that [parasitic bomb] in spades. If they could give her big tits and have panty shots every 5 seconds, they would have.

[Flame]

Perfect species to control through the means of cloning evil entities, huh?

Mother brain was not made an evil entity, a clone of her would not be evil either.

You're both implying that cloning in Nintendo works at the level or actual cloning, and that a computer is anything without its programming. You honestly think they went that far in terms of characterization? Oh, and she was previously programmed to be evil, huh? The Chozo, masters of technological superiority, programmed a superior computer and it turned evil. Oh, the humans shall SURELY SUCCEED AT THIS. And before you start calling it a metaphor on human arrogance because the game has suuuuuuch a good story, I'll just say it's not arrogance. It is prime stupidity.

Cloning is cloning. The act of creating a genetically identical copy of the original.That is the definition of cloning. MB has the same technology behind Mother Brain, she is basically a clone of her. Mother brain was never made as evil, therefore, MB had no prior risk of being evil.

What? What does it have to do with the Metroids? They made her a kawaii uguu girl because they're japanese and they eat that [parasitic bomb] in spades. If they could give her big tits and have panty shots every 5 seconds, they would have.

I think somebody's just upset that Nintendo got sum emotions and animu in their Ripley and Alien.

The baby Metroid immediately bonded with Samus like it's mother. Which means apparently, that works. So, they made MB with the sole purpose of being able to interact and control those metroids like their mother. She would bond with them, and they would obey her. I mean come on, she is even BLONDE like Samus is. I cant see how it's so hard to see that they were basically emulating Samus for use with the Metroids.

I love also, how many people complain about Samus' relationship with the baby as "nothing special" when back in Super, at the end of the game, they would have interpreted it quite the opposite. The baby came to rescue it's "mother" and got killed. Samus, having regained her strength, takes down Mother brain in an emotionally intense curbstomp. (which the opening cinematic represents awesomely too)

[Bueno Excelente]

Mother brain was not made an evil entity, a clone of her would not be evil either.
Cloning is cloning. The act of creating a genetically identical copy of the original.That is the definition of cloning. MB has the same technology behind Mother Brain, she is basically a clone of her. Mother brain was never made as evil, therefore, MB had no prior risk of being evil.

See how well that worked. Again, cloning evil entities and making big, intelligent computers which turn out betraying you is one of sci-fi's most obvious plots. In this game, it was made horribly.

I think somebody's just upset that Nintendo got sum emotions and animu in their Ripley and Alien.

I'm not even a Metroid fan, and I LIKED Other M, gameplay-wise. I just thought the story was the stupidest thing I've ever seen, and it seriously didn't fit well at all with the tone of the game. I don't mind things going animu, unless it's too much of a change. But the EMOTIONS were handled in a very awful way, completely ruining anything good this story might have ever had left to offer.

The baby Metroid immediately bonded with Samus like it's mother. Which means apparently, that works. So, they made MB with the sole purpose of being able to interact and control those metroids like their mother. She would bond with them, and they would obey her. I mean come on, she is even BLONDE like Samus is. I cant see how it's so hard to see that they were basically emulating Samus for use with the Metroids.

Sure, that might've been a story point. It's a damn stupid one, though. Since the relationship wasn't entirely beneficial for Samus either, having had the baby suck her health to 1HP before recognizing her. No experiment would ever be tried with such a stupid logic. Furthermore actually having Mother Brain in control of the Metroids, a cloned and reprogrammed Mother Brain, but Mother Brain neverthless, might've been the dumbest thing they've ever done.

I love also, how many people complain about Samus' relationship with the baby as "nothing special" when back in Super, at the end of the game, they would have interpreted it quite the opposite. The baby came to rescue it's "mother" and got killed. Samus, having regained her strength, takes down Mother brain in an emotionally intense curbstomp. (which the opening cinematic represents awesomely too)

Might've been special for the baby. Not for Samus, though. She knew the thing for hours at the most, and even though it saved her life, she couldn't have bonded with it so fast.

...hahahahaha, hey, ironic thing. The baby did the EXACT same thing Anthony did. Only the baby fed on her like cattle, and Anthony was nice to her the whole way, having known her in the past. With the baby, she was traumatized. With a good colleague of her who was consistingly nice and probably the only person who helped her fit in properly in the past, she didn't give it a second thought.

Man, that's one hell of an emotion, huh?