Topic: Maverick Hunter X6. Nightmare System

[Flame]

Now, before anyone starts with it- We all know this will never happen.
HOWEVER, originally the MHX series was intended to remake the series up to 6.

So, X6 and the Nightmare System. From what we already know based on interviews and such, it was originally planned to ACTUALLY randomize stage layouts and actually do something more than minor annoyances in stages such as fireballs, acid rain and blinds.

So, in the what if scenario that we got a MHX6, what do you thing would, should and could be done about the half assed nightmare system that the original had? The closest that it had to the original concept is Wolfangs stage, where depending on the nightmare, an additional path opens up to stranded reploids, an EX tank, and the Nightmare Zero/Highmax/Dynamo level.

So, would they keep it the same, try to change it to what they originally wanted, or something else?
Or what SHOULD they do?

Discuss.

[AquaTeamV3]

My advice? Scrap it.

The nightmare system IMO did more harm than good.  Most of the effects had no real benefits, besides the Wolfang example mentioned earlier.  Blinding the player, slowing him down, and other crap like that was pretty annoying.  At least you actually could control it; had it been random it would make it that much more tedious to rescue certain reploids.

[Satoryu]

I'm fine with how the system is now. The beauty of these "annoyances" is that if you don't like one of the Nightmares, you could activate the other one, or just do that stage early on enough to not bother with either.

If they were to expand on the concept, I would like to see more than just 2 options, actually. Also, having an option to play without the Nightmares would be nice, but I could only see that working in a bonus mode of sorts. Perhaps in All Clear mode, you could actually choose which Nightmare to activate before entering the stage.

Honestly, there are other things in X6 that need to be changed more. But that's for another time.

The original plan sounds like a disaster. We can already see how much of a hassle that would've been, just look at Scaravich.

Aqua: They're not supposed to be beneficial. That kinda defeats the purpose of obstacles and hazards, which the Nightmare most certainy is.

[AquaTeamV3]

Aqua: They're not supposed to be beneficial. That kinda defeats the purpose of obstacles and hazards, which the Nightmare most certainy is.

True, but they could tone it down a bit.  I thought the Soul Body one was pretty clever.  THe ones I don't really like are the ones that up and barricade something that you need to get, thus forcing you to leave, enter another stage, exit that one, and then come back.  That gets old fast.  The other effects like the fireballs and dragonflies were pretty negligible as well, it's just that blinding thing that bugs me.

It would be nice if they had some variant of the weather system from Z4, where the Nightmare would simply increase the overall difficulty of the stage, while still leaving item accrual intact.  X1 had a nice system too, where defating one boss would somehow affect another's stage.

[Flame]

Personally, ik would like to see how they manage randomizing stage layouts. there could be different bonuses, reploids and items scattered around the different layouts. Scaravich is really a poor example... considering his stage is a stage that teleports you to other mini stages. I like to think such as for example, that the stage layout by default might look like- say, a big "Z", and with the nightmare, suddenly, its a "W"...

[Satoryu]

THe ones I don't really like are the ones that up and barricade something that you need to get, thus forcing you to leave, enter another stage, exit that one, and then come back.

I can't think of any example where a Nightmare effect would do that. If you mean the alternate path in Wolfang, you don't have to go there unless you absolutely need Jumper for whatever challenge you're doing.

[Flame]

I can't think of any example where a Nightmare effect would do that. If you mean the alternate path in Wolfang, you don't have to go there unless you absolutely need Jumper for whatever challenge you're doing.

Or if you want the EX tank.

BTW, how do i get it to open up again...? I forgot the trick...

[Satoryu]

The EX Tank is so useless. The game has infinite continues, and respawns you at the last checkpoint. Starting with 2 extra lives each time doesn't really make a difference.

Opening Wolfang's secondary requires Heatnix's Nightmare.

[Pringer X]

I'd say go with the original idea and have a psuedo-randomized layout (otherwise the game could glitch and cause a level where you have no possible exit) sort of like what Persona 3 and 4 did with their dungeons, and change the part system altogether. Instead of having to rescue reploids to get parts, why not buy them? I mean, outside of increasing your hunter rank, the Souls didn't do jack. Not to mention since the game was completely unpunishing in regards to rescuing the bastards, you could go nuts and fall into a hole if need be if someone was hovering over one. Change it up so that losing all your lives restarts you at the beginning of the stage, making the EX item actually useful, and rather than let the Souls just sit there, do something else with them. Make parts that use them up, make them a type of currency, put in x amount of Souls to get a particular item and keep a record of it, just something other than increasing your rank. Since that means rescuing the reploids becomes optional, it could be more punishing to try to get them since they give you a free 1-up.

[Flame]

as in, it needs the nightmare to be affecting Heatnix's stage? (Heatnix in red) I did that, and it still didnt open.

Posted on: November 05, 2009, 02:10:23 PM

I'd say go with the original idea and have a psuedo-randomized layout (otherwise the game could glitch and cause a level where you have no possible exit) sort of like what Persona 3 and 4 did with their dungeons, and change the part system altogether. Instead of having to rescue reploids to get parts, why not buy them? I mean, outside of increasing your hunter rank, the Souls didn't do jack. Not to mention since the game was completely unpunishing in regards to rescuing the bastards, you could go nuts and fall into a hole if need be if someone was hovering over one. Change it up so that losing all your lives restarts you at the beginning of the stage, making the EX item actually useful, and rather than let the Souls just sit there, do something else with them. Make parts that use them up, make them a type of currency, put in x amount of Souls to get a particular item and keep a record of it, just something other than increasing your rank. Since that means rescuing the reploids becomes optional, it could be more punishing to try to get them since they give you a free 1-up.

Dunno.I prefer having to rescue the reploids. Though maybe they should not be so annoyingly placed. where a nightmare is RIGHT NEXT to him...
Maybe Its just because I disliked X8's shop system- Though Xtreme 2 did it well. It required a fuckton of souls for some items. while in X8, you could very easily buy things. Hell, they had an item that generated them as you walked.

[Pringer X]

Dunno.I prefer having to rescue the reploids. Though maybe they should not be so annoyingly placed. where a nightmare is RIGHT NEXT to him...
Maybe Its just because I disliked X8's shop system- Though Xtreme 2 did it well. It required a fuckton of souls for some items.

That's actually what I was thinking about, Xtreme 2's shop system. That eliminates the need to find certain reploids and allows you to actually win the game if you screw up and end up leaving one to die, the very one who has a particular part you need in order to finish the game.

One other thing I hated was Gate's first stage where you have the giant spikes right there. Without the Shadow Armor or Zero, you're boned, and if those undestroyable blocks are on MSP's stage, then you can't finish the Shadow Armor, and unless it's impossible to be locked out of fighting Nightmare Zero, it'll take hell and forever to climb up that thing (at the very least, the first [tornado fang]ing spiked wall; if you can somehow let the enemies live then you can just take damage and run up the things) if it's even possible.

[Flame]

That's actually what I was thinking about, Xtreme 2's shop system. That eliminates the need to find certain reploids and allows you to actually win the game if you screw up and end up leaving one to die, the very one who has a particular part you need in order to finish the game.

One other thing I hated was Gate's first stage where you have the giant spikes right there. Without the Shadow Armor or Zero, you're boned, and if those undestroyable blocks are on MSP's stage, then you can't finish the Shadow Armor, and unless it's impossible to be locked out of fighting Nightmare Zero, it'll take hell and forever to climb up that thing (at the very least, the first [tornado fang]ing spiked wall; if you can somehow let the enemies live then you can just take damage and run up the things) if it's even possible.

All of Gate's stages are possible with unarmored X.

theyre not indestructible. They are destroyable by certain weapons. the brown ones Ground dash, the red ones tthe water weapon, etc.

actually, one thing Id be curious of, is if they wold give any purpose to that pointless fork in the teleporter room stae. where the spiked block descent suddenly forks in two, with one leading to the rematch area, the other to an empty small space

[Satoryu]

as in, it needs the nightmare to be affecting Heatnix's stage? (Heatnix in red) I did that, and it still didnt open.

No. When a boss' picture is in red, that means they're affected by the stage you just visited. If Heatnix is red, that means you've just been to either Yammark or Player.

You need the nightmare to be affecting Wolfang's stage. Specifically, you need the one caused by visiting Heatnix's stage, the raining fireballs.

Without the Shadow Armor or Zero, you're boned,

Not at all. Everyone can get through there. Some just need more than others. Playing normally, you should have Ice Burst, which is key in getting up there for most forms of X. In fact, playing that stage as Shadow or Zero is a bit of a handicap. They have a tougher time on Mother Nightmare than Falcon or Blade, who can just spam Storm Eagles.

and if those undestroyable blocks are on MSP's stage, then you can't finish the Shadow Armor,

I don't recall that being an issue. The ones you can't destroy can be pushed. I actually think the game wants you to push those blocks to create a staircase of sorts to reach the capsule and secondary. You know, given you don't have Blade Armor.

and unless it's impossible to be locked out of fighting Nightmare Zero,

That is possible, by collecting 3000 souls before beating all the bosses. Odds are you won't do that without trying, though.

I couldn't understand the last part of your rant because there's so much going on in that sentence. But I assume you're misinformed on that too.

Where the hell is Shelly when you need him?

[Flame]

That is possible, by collecting 3000 souls before beating all the bosses. Odds are you won't do that without trying, though.

I couldn't understand the last part of your rant because there's so much going on in that sentence. But I assume you're misinformed on that too.

Where the hell is Shelly when you need him?

Or beating all the bosses. Once you open up Gate's lab, if you didnt get Zero, you are no longer able to fight Nightmare Zero or Highmax in the secondary stages. It skips straight to Dynamo.

[Satoryu]

Doi, how could I forget that?

Blonde-Polish Moment right there.

[Keno]

Alright, I'm just gonna cover this entire thread in blurbs, going in reverse chronological order.

I actually forgot about the 3000 Souls route & accidentally did it, but that was on Xtreme, & you get a lot of Souls in Xtreme.

I've heard that Player's jump can be made with just Ice Burst & a well-timed dash jump, regardless of parts.

[tornado fang] buying after finding. [tornado fang] buying. I hated that about X8. Mega Man has currency because the stuff isn't hidden everywhere, save for 7. X is where they hide them in the stages. I do not need to collect endless amounts of currency to have fun.

The red blocks can be destroyed with Ground Dash. I've never tried Meteor Rain on them.

The reason X6 had continuing partway through the stage was because of loading different parts of the stage. It's a style thing passed down from X4. I would assume MHX6 would be entirely different in that aspect, as I recall having to start stages over from the start in MHX.

I love the Nightmare System as it wound up. It was just like X1, except it made it harder, & you could manipulate it.

Though, X6 could really have benefited from free stage exiting. Then all the gripes would disappear.

[Pringer X]

All of Gate's stages are possible with unarmored X.

theyre not indestructible. They are destroyable by certain weapons. the brown ones Ground dash, the red ones tthe water weapon, etc.

I'd like to know how you jump over the spiked walls at the start then, since I never could.

I tried EVERYTHING on the blocks and not one of then broke. Charged and uncharged, not a single block was destroyed by any weapon. Granted I experimented on the black one, but that's the block that prevents me from getting the last piece of the shadow armor since the gap closes with you getting to the other side just BARELY without the block being there.

[AquaTeamV3]

That's actually what I was thinking about, Xtreme 2's shop system. That eliminates the need to find certain reploids and allows you to actually win the game if you screw up and end up leaving one to die, the very one who has a particular part you need in order to finish the game.

If one gets killed/possessed, just quit the game and use the 'use previous data' option to get right back in there.  It's not really that complicated.

One other thing I hated was Gate's first stage where you have the giant spikes right there. Without the Shadow Armor or Zero, you're boned...and unless it's impossible to be locked out of fighting Nightmare Zero, it'll take hell and forever to climb up that thing (at the very least, the first [tornado fang]ing spiked wall; if you can somehow let the enemies live then you can just take damage and run up the things) if it's even possible.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzRr7UNzO7g[/youtube]

and if those undestroyable blocks are on MSP's stage, then you can't finish the Shadow Armor

Each block has a different function when X uses Ground Dash on it.  For everyone except the red ones, you have to be directly next to said block in order to move it; it's as if X is pushing the rock a-la Scaravich.

• Red: Explodes
• Blue: Slides until it hits something
• Brown: Slides a certain distance and then stops
• Black: Erm...I forget, really. 

[tornado fang] buying after finding. [tornado fang] buying. I hated that about X8. Mega Man has currency because the stuff isn't hidden everywhere, save for 7. X is where they hide them in the stages. I do not need to collect endless amounts of currency to have fun.

The Metal glitch pretty much overrides the shop system altogether though.  I liked the MM7 system where you simply had the option of buying or finding stuff.  You could simply buy something if you were too lazy to go grab it yourself, and every item in the game could be found, which meant that you really never even had to set foot in the shop!

[Pringer X]

If one gets killed/possessed, just quit the game and use the 'use previous data' option to get right back in there.  It's not really that complicated.

The problem is you'd have to save after every level and if you lost someone right near the end of a stage, you'd be screwed and you have to go through everything again.

Each block has a different function when X uses Ground Dash on it.  For everyone except the red ones, you have to be directly next to said block in order to move it; it's as if X is pushing the rock a-la Scaravich.

• Red: Explodes
• Blue: Slides until it hits something
• Brown: Slides a certain distance and then stops
• Black: Erm...I forget, really. 

I tried everything and nothing worked. Besides, it's the black one that's beyond the portal that prevents you from getting the armor piece so while the rest are annoying, it's that one that really messes you up.

As for getting past that one part, I'm assuming the guy had the Jumper part because I tried doing that a million times.

[AquaTeamV3]

The problem is you'd have to save after every level and if you lost someone right near the end of a stage, you'd be screwed and you have to go through everything again.

"Use previous data" doesn't rely on saving, it just takes you to the last time you were at the stage select screen.  You'd still have to clear the stage again, but yeah.

I tried everything and nothing worked. Besides, it's the black one that's beyond the portal that prevents you from getting the armor piece so while the rest are annoying, it's that one that really messes you up.

If that's the case then you should probably visit Wolfang's stage and then come back; the blocks leave and the effect is changed to ice.  That should rectify your problem.

As for getting past that one part, I'm assuming the guy had the Jumper part because I tried doing that a million times.

Parts are pretty much a necessity when trying to clear that kind of stuff.

[yanmaoption]

I tried everything and nothing worked. Besides, it's the black one that's beyond the portal that prevents you from getting the armor piece so while the rest are annoying, it's that one that really messes you up.

Have you really tried? Because the first time I played the game I cleared that jump with the help of those blocks and Ice Burst. You HAVE TO stand NEXT to the block before you use Ground Dash so that the weapon won't come out and X will only do his dash animation to the block like he pushes it.

• Red: Explodes
• Blue: Slides until it hits something
• Brown: Slides a certain distance and then stops
• Black: Erm...I forget, really.  

It's no wonder why you can't remember the black one because you confuse it with brown. The black is the one that will slide for 1 "block" distance while the brown one will be destroyed without any explosion like what the red one has.

[Flame]

I'd like to know how you jump over the spiked walls at the start then, since I never could.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt1ujNCpcuI[/youtube]

The problem is you'd have to save after every level and if you lost someone right near the end of a stage, you'd be screwed and you have to go through everything again.

gives you more experience. And builds character. Seriously. failing so hard at Heatnixes stage so many times, has taught me how to play through it well, and now im good at it with unarmored X.

[Keno]

The Metal glitch pretty much overrides the shop system altogether though.

That doesn't work in the PC version. I've tried it.

[Satoryu]

It only works on the North American PS2 version. All other versions fixed that bug.

[Hypershell]

So, X6 and the Nightmare System. From what we already know based on interviews and such, it was originally planned to ACTUALLY randomize stage layouts and actually do something more than minor annoyances in stages such as fireballs, acid rain and blinds.

I don't consider that claim reliable.  I know of no such interview, only the game description on the back of the box.  And X6 is far from the first time that materials included with the game have been inaccurate (in fact since X5 they have been notoriously bad), so I'm wondering if that whole thing isn't just a botched translation.

Assuming we did see an X6 remake, the Nightmare System could at least stand a few tweaks to make it more user-friendly even without having to change the core effects.  At the very least some indicator of what effect is going on in the stage select menu is warranted.  Or, you could manually choose an effect based on what stages you have cleared rather than having to base it on the last stage visited.  The ability to do effect-less stages again would make a nice unlockable, I suppose.  Maybe for New Game Plus or as an extra reward for 3,000 Nightmare Souls.

Where the hell is Shelly when you need him?

My sinuses were socking it to me yesterday, sorry.

the very one who has a particular part you need in order to finish the game.

I've been over this before, that scenario is *IMPOSSIBLE*.  These are the only parts you can lose in X6:
-Rapid 5
-Shot Eraser
-Power Drive
-Speedster
-Quick Charge
-Overdrive
-Damage Converter
-1 Life Up
-2 Energy Ups

Absolutely none of that is required to beat the game.  Speedster is the only one remotely relevant to jump distance, and that's assuming you are not dash-jumping.

One other thing I hated was Gate's first stage where you have the giant spikes right there. Without the Shadow Armor or Zero, you're boned, and if those undestroyable blocks are on MSP's stage, then you can't finish the Shadow Armor, and unless it's impossible to be locked out of fighting Nightmare Zero, it'll take hell and forever to climb up that thing (at the very least, the first [tornado fang]ing spiked wall; if you can somehow let the enemies live then you can just take damage and run up the things) if it's even possible.

*sighs*  Amateur.

1. In no way whatsoever is it ever impossible to complete the Shadow Armor.  No stage has only one Nightmare Effect.

2. You can furthermore clear that wall with Blade Armor alone.

3. You can also clear using any form of X whatsoever with the combination of Jumper and Ice Burst.

4. You CANNOT clear it with barrier abuse alone, because the damage barrier protects you from spikes but does not allow you to wall-kick against them.  The only point of that is extra reassurance, particularly with Blade Armor.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzRr7UNzO7g[/youtube]

Pretty creative use of Ice Burst, I must say...

That's why I love X6.

If one gets killed/possessed, just quit the game and use the 'use previous data' option to get right back in there.  It's not really that complicated.

In all fairness I realized in a recent replay that this option is not available on X Collection.  Only on PS1 (or if by chance you have it, PC).

Still, I can't imagine one would get too far into X6 before realizing that they SHOULD be saving after every stage.  Any game that throws that much crap at you, you do not want to take the chance of losing your progress.