In the end, Zero's purpose came to pass.

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Offline MassKiller1

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Reply #25 on: November 15, 2008, 02:48:41 AM
doesnt mean anything. Wily likes to boast and brag about his creations, and doesnt give 3 shits about their feelings. Bass doesnt give 3 shits either, as hes too busy boasting that hes more powerfull than anything Wily can dish out. Light is very humble, and modest. it would make sense that he kept X a secret from Rock and the others, especially Rock, not to make him feel that he was being replaced. Protoman also, would dislike the idea, and as he goes on his own accord, its unpredictable what he would do if he found out.

Makes sense a lot of sense. Wonder if that's how Capcom wanted it to happen.

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Offline Gaia

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Reply #26 on: November 15, 2008, 02:51:58 AM
@Zan: Hmm.. as to say, Zero's pod actually awakens after entry of Sigma's forces. (If you looked at most reploids before the events of X1/IHX and in the scene in X4, they appeared to be based from old army robots, plus they weren't as light and multifunctional as most Reploids. Plus were pretty much still bulky, and came in various shapes and sizes. *points to a scene of X, alone, with a bunch of strange robots unknown to him during the credits roll in X3*

Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

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Offline Flame

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Reply #27 on: November 15, 2008, 03:02:57 AM
@Zan:
Zan?
*looks*
where? :\

also, that doesnt mean anything either. honestly, dont you learn? Reploids come in all shapes and sizes. such as Lions and Tigers and Bears. (the first one to say "OH MY!" gets smacked.)
also, the term REPLOID means Replicated Android. I.O.W., replicated off of X.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Gaia

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Reply #28 on: November 15, 2008, 03:06:38 AM
Zan?
*looks*
where? :\

also, that doesnt mean anything either. honestly, dont you learn? Reploids come in all shapes and sizes. such as Lions and Tigers and Bears. (the first one to say "OH MY!" gets smacked.)
also, the term REPLOID means Replicated Android. I.O.W., replicated off of X.

It's been awhile since I EVER touched X3, bare with me.. but then I've seen a quick Sparkman reference somewhere in there.

Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

It got really messy to find my sprite and comic topic, so it's in my sig.


Offline Flame

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Reply #29 on: November 15, 2008, 03:23:40 AM
really? do tell.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Zan

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Reply #30 on: November 15, 2008, 09:37:07 AM
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Zan?
*looks*
where? Undecided

Oh boy, I've got so much to set people right on here... But I don't have the time...

I'll just start of with saying:

Rock does NOT have an expiration date, the World Robot Union made him an exception like Roll and the original 6 (8?) industrial robots.



Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #31 on: November 15, 2008, 02:33:11 PM
Yeah, the World Robot Union is a bunch of retro-jerks who arbitrarily kill thinking robots except for their special favorite "classics".

without Zero, there would have been no maverick virus, without no Virus, there would have been no maverick wars,
You know, I'm pretty sure there never was any "Virus"; it was just a myth that reploids used to try to excuse their actions.

Light secretly took Rock's mind (or whatever he needed) and made X.
In an interview Capcom states that Rockman and X are separate characters...one is not the other.
Maybe that interview was part of the cover-up!  METAFICTION!



Offline MassKiller1

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Reply #32 on: November 15, 2008, 03:21:59 PM
Oh? You're saying they lie?  bVd

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Offline Flame

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Reply #33 on: November 15, 2008, 04:28:56 PM

You know, I'm pretty sure there never was any "Virus"; it was just a myth that reploids used to try to excuse their actions.

X2, X3, X5, X8 would have a word with you.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Align

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Reply #34 on: November 15, 2008, 05:09:54 PM
I'm sure he wasn't totally srsface.



Offline Zan

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Reply #35 on: November 15, 2008, 05:28:00 PM
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he didnt, it was just destiny, to put it bluntly. as much as Zero tried, he couldnt escape his intention after all.

It's a vital plot point that Zero is responsible for the bloodstained history and that history repeating itself. Therefor, he has to remove himself from the world. Even without Wily, his original purpose haunts him. That is his nightmare.

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Wasn't Zero's purpose to surpass Forte and destroy Rockman? I thought Dr. Light created X to counter Zero.

Zero's purpose is multifaceted.

-To be the strongest robot.

-Robot Destruction Pro...
-Destroy Rockman.
-Destroy Forte.

-Destroy X.
-To prove Wily is the superior scientist, rivalry with Right.

X's creation and sealing is completely unrelated to Zero. X was designed to make robots truly happy, to make them able to determine right and wrong by themselves, the concept of worrying. Zero was initially developed to surpass all others and defeat Rockman and the annoyance Forte. Zero's initial purpose eventually changed and he was sealed away with the objective to destroy X. For the sake of rivalry, his motivation in life, Wily would dare to challenge Right's greatest. That battle is the battle of destiny that Wily has waited a century for. Nothing else, like taking over the world, matters now.

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if you're not even going to be able to see it come true?

He's around to see it come true, Zero's battle with X that is. Much like Right is around to guide X.

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Wily either managed to get a copy of the plans, or made them from scratch after hearing about X.

Zero and X were developed independently and separate. X's conceptual development began in Power Battle. Zero's schematics were first shown in Power Fighters. Zero is a result of Wily learning from his mistakes made with Forte and developing a new energy that surpasses Fortenium. X is the result of Rock's doubts in Power Battle.

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yeah, but thats because by ZX he is technically revived. but from Z2, to pre-ZX, he counts as dead. his physical body was destroyed completely, all that remains is his soul. he can leave cyberspace due to his sheer power. once the control chip is destroyed, its considered a death. which is why technically, Zero only really died once in Z4, where he disintegrated upon atmospheric rentry.

It's pretty silly to throw around labels like living and dead in a series where people can be revived like its nothing. There's multiple types of death to take into account; destruction of the body, separation of the soul from the brain chip and merging with the abyss. Also matters of self revival are important.

Unless one's soul is merged with the metaphorical abyss, then one is essentially living in cyberspace or even as a wave-lifeform. It is what is commonly called a ghost or a disembodied soul, a Cyber Elf. A state of being both alive and dead at the same time. Cases like that exist with Sigma, Elpis Wily, X, Phantom, Girouette, Digg and that guy from Shooting Star Rockman. We also presume Zero and the others of the Big4 can become Cyber Elves like that. It seems one needs a strong will/obsession to remain alive, be special or attain external help. Everybody else just passes on and merges with the abyss. Though, their souls can still be returned from even that state of being, so no type of death in Rockman is permanent.

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They probably kept his expiration date on hold, because the world needed a savior if Wily ever attacks again. But in the end, Mega (Along with other robots) were put into a Robot Musem, for great honor to him when Wily "vanished" so he can begin building Zero, thus removing him from the mind of the public years later. (being in textbooks, perhaps) Light made a copy of his mind (As your point), just in case they needed a savior for the next few centuries. Rock's old data, however, was constantly put on replay on his "holy actions".

Rock's fate is completely unknown, but the expiration date and robot museum story is completely far fatched. Without Wily, Rockman would retire and become Rock again until Rockman is again needed. He could become Quint, but he could also leave this planet, there are a lot of options.

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Now fast-foward to the X series. Zero was discovered before X (Sigma was there during an escort, meaning that Zero was intentionally the base for some police reploids, as now dubbed. however, during that clash, he went mad, but however, during a scene of MHX, He was probably told to do so by the reploid creator, being Dr Cain himself. however, during that final battle in X8, Axl was belived to be "dead" until his revival in ZXA.

Zero was awakened in 21XX in Wily's lab, because he was disturbed by Repliroids, presumably Garma's unit, which he subsequently slaughtered. Sometime later, in the abandoned warehouse/Rocky Mountain storehouse, he was cornered by Hunters and fought with Sigma. Zero got a headache and got beaten by Sigma. When Zero awoke, he mysteriously woke up without irregularities. Due to that incident, the Sigma Virus transferred from Zero to Sigma. Sigma merged with the Virus, the evil Virus' hold on him was complete after several months, and Sigma of his own free will started rebellion.

Axl did not die in X8, he's taken damage but he's fine. He thus reappears in XCM.

Axl and Model A's relation is theoretical, but not disproven.

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What happened was that Zero was created first.

What happened is that the order of creation between X and Zero is unknown. X's concept began before Zero was shown to Forte, but we can't tell when Zero's concept began in relation to X's. Also, Zero was sealed away because X was sealed away. We don't know which project first began, but X was completed first. As a matter of fact, Zero's "completion" isn't technically until X2.

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they appeared to be based from old army robots, plus they weren't as light and multifunctional as most Reploids.

Repliroids look odd in X4 cutscenes, but the robots were definitely Repliroids. They weren't light-hearted, thematic or mono-eyed enough to be classic robots.

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REPLOID means Replicated Android. I.O.W., replicated off of X.

The term Repliroid has no official meaning such as that. Such is mere fanon. The multiple definitions of Repliroid revolve around the core fact that Repliroid mental functions are designed to be as close to humans as possible, not around being replicated of X. It is simply that the X lies at the root that allows near human mental abilities. Really, the only Repliroid that truly follows the definition of based on X and having ability that surpasses all previous robots... is Sigma, simply because he's the first. That definition becomes highly questionable later, so the human mental capabilities definition is the preferred definition for Repliroids in general.





Offline Flame

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Reply #36 on: November 15, 2008, 07:20:07 PM
*bows before the almighty Zan*
but, still, what is Zeros status when Ciel finds him? I would say judging by RTRZ, that hes like X, disembodied. a "ghost" as it were. And it was his body's repair that brought him back into the living world So to speak.
what say you? :P

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Zan

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Reply #37 on: November 15, 2008, 08:00:33 PM
I say Zero was a Cyber Elf until he got stuffed into the red ranger's morphing device. But I'm sure I addressed that in another thread.



Offline Shiki Tohno

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Reply #38 on: November 15, 2008, 08:45:59 PM
I say Zero was a Cyber Elf until he got stuffed into the red ranger's morphing device. But I'm sure I addressed that in another thread.
ROFL, I actually chortled Mt. Dew through my nose at this statement. XD



Offline Jericho

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Reply #39 on: November 15, 2008, 08:51:43 PM
ROFL, I actually chortled Mt. Dew through my nose at this statement. XD

You aren't the only one. XD



Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #40 on: November 15, 2008, 09:40:08 PM
X2, X3, X5, X8 would have a word with you.
I'd like to have a word with THEM!



Offline Klavier Gavin

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Reply #41 on: November 15, 2008, 09:46:22 PM
I say Zero was a Cyber Elf until he got stuffed into the red ranger's morphing device. But I'm sure I addressed that in another thread.

XD



Offline Flame

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Reply #42 on: November 15, 2008, 09:50:02 PM
I say Zero was a Cyber Elf until he got stuffed into the red ranger's morphing device. But I'm sure I addressed that in another thread.
that was obvious, but I mean, when Ciel found him in the ancient forgotten lab, was he simply "off" or was his soul disembodied, as she hears his voice before going inside the room.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Hypershell

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Reply #43 on: November 16, 2008, 12:15:50 AM
Zero and X were developed independently and separate. X's conceptual development began in Power Battle. Zero's schematics were first shown in Power Fighters. Zero is a result of Wily learning from his mistakes made with Forte and developing a new energy that surpasses Fortenium. X is the result of Rock's doubts in Power Battle.
It's not inconceivable that Light and Wily had access to each other's work, especially looking at the X1 buster oddity which MHX chose to preserve.  But X and Zero are unique projects that differ in their conception, that is certainly true.

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Unless one's soul is merged with the metaphorical abyss, then one is essentially living in cyberspace or even as a wave-lifeform. It is what is commonly called a ghost or a disembodied soul, a Cyber Elf. A state of being both alive and dead at the same time. Cases like that exist with Sigma, Elpis Wily, X, Phantom, Girouette, Digg and that guy from Shooting Star Rockman. We also presume Zero and the others of the Big4 can become Cyber Elves like that. It seems one needs a strong will/obsession to remain alive, be special or attain external help. Everybody else just passes on and merges with the abyss. Though, their souls can still be returned from even that state of being, so no type of death in Rockman is permanent.
The definition of "Cyber-Elf" like the definition of "Reploid" is a bit sketchy and has been expanded over the course of the games.  In the most basic sense a program life object, or data-fied soul.  Be it human, Reploid, or initially created as an elf doesn't matter.  In that sense anything could become a Cyber-Elf, what is questionable is whether or not they are powerful enough to interact with the substance world.

Incidentally, whether or not Phantom obtained such status is canonically questionable.  He appears outside of Cyberspace only through e-Reader cards, similar to Zero's Resistance date and Andrew's younger body, the latter of which is seemingly discredited by Physis.  Fefnir and Leviathan speak with Phantom in Telos, but that's in X's presence, and in the "interim between life and death" (I'm guessing that's a fancy way of saying zonked out, like Zero near the end of Z3).

Rock does NOT have an expiration date, the World Robot Union made him an exception like Roll and the original 6 (8?) industrial robots.
Is this from Ariga's manga or another source?  Because Ariga's manga makes a few stretches in regards to consistency with the games, most notably the time of Light's arrest.

That being said, my take on the robot expiration date is that they are applicable to "worker" robots, that is those that are in public service.  The MM9 Robot Masters reappear in the credits alongside Light and the rest of the regular cast, which I took to mean Light took them in.  There's no reason the expiration dates should apply to domestic robots, their activity is the business of whoever they live with.

Also on DeviantArt, Rumble, DLive.tv, and the Fediverse (@freespeechextremist.com and @bae.st)


Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #44 on: November 16, 2008, 02:46:59 AM
Hmm, okay...  I still don't get why there are set dates for obsoletion of sentient robots that aren't even assigned to special projects, just regular ongoing jobs.  Isn't the world going to need more lifeguards, quality control inspectors, etc.?



Offline Flame

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Reply #45 on: November 16, 2008, 02:53:44 AM
well, phantom IS a secret boss in Z3, which gives you the ultima boots, and he never really "interacts witht he real world" more that Zero, entered cyberspace through one of the rifts, and encountered him. Phantom never re-entered the real world until he became the purple ranger morph device.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Zan

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Reply #46 on: November 16, 2008, 03:12:56 AM
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Incidentally, whether or not Phantom obtained such status is canonically questionable.  He appears outside of Cyberspace only through e-Reader cards, similar to Zero's Resistance date and Andrew's younger body, the latter of which is seemingly discredited by Physis.  Fefnir and Leviathan speak with Phantom in Telos, but that's in X's presence, and in the "interim between life and death" (I'm guessing that's a fancy way of saying zonked out, like Zero near the end of Z3).

I don't think the E-reader is canonically questionable. They're just alternate scenarios which don't happen in the timeline. Andrew simply never attained his younger body, but there's no question that he could.

Also, about Phantom's interaction with Zero at the base, projecting himself like X and Giro do is probably very tasking. Compare it to a ghost trying to become visible, it's such an intangible thing that it's barely ever seen. We know Phantom can't project his image or appear in the substance world readily, as he never once met up with his comrades to inform them about what he learned.

I reckon the glowing orb state is a much easier state of being for a Cyber Elf,  but ZERO3 is when the doors are omnipresent, so Phantom has a means to leave cyberspace readily. Before that, he's simply stuck in cyberspace with limited substance world interaction. And even as the glowing orb, he can only transmit his feelings of sadness to call out to Zero. So, Phantom is still very very limited. I'd take Inti's E-readery word for it though, they called him a Cyber-Elf, so he is one.

As for TELOS, that is simply because of X's presence. What Phantom is saying is that they're NOT a drifting interim between life and death, in other words, they're not dead and a Cyber Elf like Phantom. Projection being only possible with X around is also validated by the appearance of Phantom's projected image in Vile's Incident. Inti's interview might say it's supposedly vague in timeline but it can not happen before everyone's death by virtue of Phantom's cyber effects and their reunion in TELOS.

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Is this from Ariga's manga or another source?  Because Ariga's manga makes a few stretches in regards to consistency with the games, most notably the time of Light's arrest.

Ariga's manga, yeah. But there is some merit to it within the games, mostly in Roll having to explain it to Rock and Roll not having been expired yet herself. All other previous robots haven't been shown expired either, but I think saying the original 6 are exceptions might be stretching it a bit as we know they're often on Wily's side and thus dodging laws like that

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Hmm, okay...  I still don't get why there are set dates for obsoletion of sentient robots that aren't even assigned to special projects, just regular ongoing jobs.  Isn't the world going to need more lifeguards, quality control inspectors, etc.?

It's not about quantity, they can make plenty of different robots for the job if they need to. What the law is about is ditching robots before they go haywire from having been active for too long and actually trying to avoid outdated robots from doing work better robots can be doing.

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well, phantom IS a secret boss in Z3, which gives you the ultima boots, and he never really "interacts witht he real world" more that Zero, entered cyberspace through one of the rifts, and encountered him. Phantom never re-entered the real world until he became the purple ranger morph device.

Get equipped with E-reader, or cheat codes. We're talking about his appearance as a Cyber-Elf as a resistance base.



Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #47 on: November 16, 2008, 03:22:13 AM
What the law is about is ditching robots before they go haywire
You mean before they go MAVERICK!



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Reply #48 on: November 16, 2008, 03:49:07 AM
I say Zero was a Cyber Elf until he got stuffed into the red ranger's morphing device. But I'm sure I addressed that in another thread.

So thats what Biometals really are!  8D



Offline Flame

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Reply #49 on: November 16, 2008, 05:06:03 AM
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I don't think the E-reader is canonically questionable. They're just alternate scenarios which don't happen in the timeline. Andrew simply never attained his younger body, but there's no question that he could.

Also, about Phantom's interaction with Zero at the base, projecting himself like X and Giro do is probably very tasking. Compare it to a ghost trying to become visible, it's such an intangible thing that it's barely ever seen. We know Phantom can't project his image or appear in the substance world readily, as he never once met up with his comrades to inform them about what he learned.

I reckon the glowing orb state is a much easier state of being for a Cyber Elf,  but ZERO3 is when the doors are omnipresent, so Phantom has a means to leave cyberspace readily. Before that, he's simply stuck in cyberspace with limited substance world interaction. And even as the glowing orb, he can only transmit his feelings of sadness to call out to Zero. So, Phantom is still very very limited. I'd take Inti's E-readery word for it though, they called him a Cyber-Elf, so he is one.

As for TELOS, that is simply because of X's presence. What Phantom is saying is that they're NOT a drifting interim between life and death, in other words, they're not dead and a Cyber Elf like Phantom. Projection being only possible with X around is also validated by the appearance of Phantom's projected image in Vile's Incident. Inti's interview might say it's supposedly vague in timeline but it can not happen before everyone's death by virtue of Phantom's cyber effects and their reunion in TELOS.
yeah, but X shouldnt be around heimself during Viles incident... theres no way he could be projecting himself and 4 others when he himself lost the power to enter the real world in Z3. X had 2 reasons for being able to enter the real world. 1, his physical body was still intact, and active, acting as the power source for Dark Elf's containment unit. therefore It acted as a sort of gateway to the physical world, and as a power source for himself as well. as since his body was still active and he was  still "connected" to it in some form, he could use its power for himself as well.
2, The fact that X, combined with the power he could call upon from his body, was diesel enough to break through the barrier. between both worlds.
In Z2, his Body was destroyed, thus destroying both his only link to the physical world, and his power supply. at which a few what, weeks or months, (cant remember off the top of my head) afterwards, omega's shuttle crashed back on earth, and cyberspace rifts opened, Giving X an easier way to enter the physical world, and not use so much power.
when Omega absorbed Dark Elf and began controlling reploids, X used what must have been an extraordinary amount of power to protect the resistance base from omega's influence. then omega was defeated. the cyberspace rifts went along with him. X now, having used up all his juice, and no longer having an easy door to the physical world, faded back to cyberspace and stayed there, and told Zero as such.

in Viles incident, he is depicted watching ragnaroks decent, with a projection of Phantom, (and as of the retcon,) and of the other 3 guardians as well. if the other 3 didnt have the power to project themselves and needed X to do so, when he himself could not project himself even, then they should not be able to be in the physical world.

(also, if im off on My Z2 knowledge, forgive me, I never played 2, on account that i can not find a single Z2 cartridge. :P Im relying solely on youtube cutscenes, ZCW, and accumulated info.)

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.