Topic: The Great Cateclysm: Silenced Forever?

[Zan]

Elpis destroying X's body and proclaiming he'll create a world without humans was one of the most epic moments of Rockman history. ZERO4's final moments are even more epic, but needed more art to go with it.

[Rodrigo Shin]

Elpis destroying X's body and proclaiming he'll create a world without humans was one of the most epic moments of Rockman history.

No image macro to state how much I disagree with the above statement and damned if I bother to keep arguing that - but I do. So, whatever.

And eh, I'm with Kieran with this one, how X was offed compared to how he would have been originally offed = pot. Kettle. Black.

[Gauntlet101010]

Since we're just discussing opinions here, X in the Zero series is kind of a rough plot thread to me.  He .... does a whole lot of nothing.  And that's something I don't understand.  Sure, he helps the resistance and all, but you'd think he's appear on TV and say "that guy over there is not me" or something. 

I'm not sure you could say Elipso really killed X when he destroyed his body.  It didn't seem to slow X down very much.

[Zan]

No image macro to state how much I disagree with the above statement and damned if I bother to keep arguing that - but I do. So, whatever.

I'm a fan of X, but I could care less about whether he's offed by Zero or by Elpis. When it comes to that specific scene, it's all about the initial shock value. That moment of ZERO2 left me in awe, followed by wanting to beat Elpis even more.

And it'd be nice if censors would allow be to say the word "epic"......

Sure, he helps the resistance and all, but you'd think he's appear on TV and say "that guy over there is not me" or something. 

Which is actually what he did.

[Rodrigo Shin]

Go to your profile, "Look and Layout preferences" and mark "Leave words uncensored"?

I'm a fan of X, but I could care less about whether he's offed by Zero or by Elpis.

As I said... pot, kettle, black. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Zan]

But I like the other censored words. >.>

[Gauntlet101010]

Which is actually what he did.

When did he do that?? He let Copy X start his little mission and let everyone just think he was the real deal.  Until it was uncovered that he wasn't.

[Flame]

I see the word epic just fine.
he means like, on national Tv. but the thing is, no one was supposed to know that X died in the first place, or chaos would erupt. the same reason it wasnt revealed to the public when copy X was defeated. plus, it doesnt seem like X to broadcast himself across national television to announce that hes dead and theres a copy in his place. which when we go into that, lets see. what would happen if the ghost of X were to go on tv and announce that CX is a copy?
the results wouldnt be pretty I think.

Elpis destroying X's body and proclaiming he'll create a world without humans was one of the most epic moments of Rockman history. ZERO4's final moments are even more epic, but needed more art to go with it.

I agree actually. the initial shock of seeing that picture of Elpis with his sword through X's chest, and Xs body breaking apart with energy is shocking, and its like, NOOO! then theres the ensuing explosion, which tears apart the entire room. Xs body with his uknown unlimited power source, X with his limitless potential, exploding in that massive explosion was like,... i cant describe it. but its epic. though Z4's ending is somewhat dumbed down in its impact due to the fact of how cheap Zero deaths have become, so when Zero dies,  its not so much of an inital shock as much as when yo analyze it fully and realize, whoa,... hes really not coming back. hes actually dead...

When did he do that?? He let Copy X start his little mission and let everyone just think he was the real deal.  Until it was uncovered that he wasn't.

well, he appeared to the reseistance and announce the whole capslock TERMINATE THAT COPY OF ME WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE line.

[Gauntlet101010]

the results wouldnt be pretty I think.

Less pretty than the genocide Copy X was doing? And the control MK2 Copy let Wiel have?

Not to mention that the resistance's goal was to kill the copy anyway. 

well, he appeared to the reseistance and announce the whole capslock TERMINATE THAT COPY OF ME WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE line.

Well, sure he appeared to the resistance .... and not the people who let Copy X run things because they thought he was the real X... or the general populace ...

[Zan]

Everybody else either already knows X is a copy and doesn't care, or doesn't believe in little X fairies.

[Gauntlet101010]

Everybody else either already knows X is a copy and doesn't care, or doesn't believe in little X fairies.

So they don't believe in Cyber Elves?  The same Elves that helped to win the Maverick War?

X could have done much more.  Letting people know Copy X isn't him is one of the major things he doesn't bother to do.  Game-logic it makes sence.  Capcom wanted people to think that, maybe, X had gone bad (although they somewhat ruined the surprise by showing pictures of "Unkown X").  Logic-wise, though, it doesn't make much sence. 

I have very little problems with the Z series, but X's role is one of them.

[Zan]

So they don't believe in Cyber Elves?  The same Elves that helped to win the Maverick War?

I said "X" fairies. As in, why would they believe a cyber elf is the hero X?

[Gauntlet101010]

I said "X" fairies. As in, why would they believe a cyber elf is the hero X?

And .... why wouldn't they?  There's probably a lot of ways he could prove it.

[Flame]

Inticreates. not Capcom. all it has to do with capcom is the characters and story presented by the X series.
also, Cyberelves? sunken library the elf war isnt something many know about. it was hidden in history to prevent a repeat.
and Cyber elves arent that widespread. they are mostly used by battle reploids and the like. even in ZX  Cyber elves are not that known. Even Vent and Aile  dont know that they are initially.
plus, only untill the ZX timeline did people recognize that when reploids died they became cyberelves. and even then, only certain ones can become "ghost like" cyberelves, as the rest simply become a little ball of emotions as ZX shows.
usually strong willed reploids who retain their will even through death.. EG phantom, X, Zero, the other Big 3.

Posted on: February 14, 2009, 08:56:49 PM

And .... why wouldn't they?  There's probably a lot of ways he could prove it.

like how?

[Zan]

only in ZX does Cyber elves become more known. and even then Vent and Aile still dont know that they are initially.

Except for the fact that NOBODY knows about cyber elves?

Only untill the ZX timeline did people recognize that when reploids died they became cyberelves. and even then

That's caused by Model V. Repliroids do not turn into cyber elves under normal condition. Only the exceptions do.

[Flame]

well, I guess. its been a while since I played ZX.

[Gauntlet101010]

Inticreates. not Capcom.

What.  Ever.

Nobody knows how that centuray old war ended or about Cyber Elves.

And that's mighty stupid.  But just by existing he can prove that he exists.

like how?

Like displaying a knowledge only the real X would know of?  Like acting, openly, in a way that the origional X acted?  You know ... the sort of stuff the hero does when he proves he's the real hero and not some copy?  That sort of stuff.

[Flame]

What.  Ever.

Not really. it does matter actually.

And that's mighty stupid.  But just by existing he can prove that he exists.

so he can just say, Hay I exist, and therefore Im X? I dont quite get what you mean.

Like displaying a knowledge only the real X would know of?  Like acting, openly, in a way that the origional X acted?  You know ... the sort of stuff the hero does when he proves he's the real hero and not some copy?  That sort of stuff.

what kind of knowledge would he have that people would recognize as something only X would know?  that he was made by Light? no one even knows who Light is by then, and dont mention Zero, because people dont know him either. almost everything of the past is nearly if not entirely forgotten. theres very little X could use to prove himself as X. Only someone who actually knew him could recognize if he was or was not the real thing.

[Gauntlet101010]

Not really. it does matter actually.

No, it really doesn't.  You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.  Not really making a point with the above.  You're just pointlessing picking apart a post.

so he can just say, Hay I exist, and therefore Im X? I dont quite get what you mean.

what kind of knowledge would he have that people would recognize as something only X would know?  that he was made by Light? no one even knows who Light is by then, and dont mention Zero, because people dont know him either. almost everything of the past is nearly if not entirely forgotten. theres very little X could use to prove himself as X.

Good Lord, man!  Use your imagination.  Providing intimate details of someone's life is a pretty convincing argument.  Moreso is acting, openly, as "the legendary hero that saved everyone from the Mavericks". 

[Flame]

what would X know about Random person A's life?
all because X was the leader of neo Arcadia doesnt mean he read the files on every person living there. he was the "president" so to speak, he governed. as long as the person in question wasnt a matter of discussion for whatever reeason, he wouldnt know anything about their LIFE.
and hacking into neo arcadia and getting info would only prove he knows how to hack.
also, anyone can act openly, and anyone can pretend to be a legendary hero. look at copy X. he boasts an awful lot of being a hero. (though his boasting is arrogant)
also, as far as the humans are concerned, they believe Copy X IS saving them from mavericks. remember, its reploids hes killing off. all in the name of keeping the humans happy, any reploid that so much as pretends to squish neo arcadias tower X with their fingers is branded a maverick.

[Gauntlet101010]

what would X know about Random person A's life?
all because X was the leader of neo Arcadia doesnt mean he read the files on every person living there. he was the "president" so to speak, he governed. as long as the person in question wasnt a matter of discussion for whatever reeason, he wouldnt know anything about their LIFE.
and hacking into neo arcadia and getting info would only prove he knows how to hack.
also, anyone can act openly, and anyone can pretend to be a legendary hero. look at copy X. he boasts an awful lot of being a hero. (though his boasting is arrogant)
also, as far as the humans are concerned, they believe Copy X IS saving them from mavericks. remember, its reploids hes killing off. all in the name of keeping the humans happy, any reploid that so much as pretends to squish neo arcadias tower X with their fingers is branded a maverick.

I'm talking about X displaying an intimate knowledge of HIS OWN life. 

Copy X's actions aren't quite so pro-humanity in Zero 3.  I question exactly how much freedom he gives humans in Zero 1.  Although we're told they're as happy as sheep.

[Tickle Buffalo]

Who's going to trust a little ball of light when it's quite obvious that the real X is ruling?

Elf X's reasons for why he's X:
Acts heroically. (How's he going to manage this, by the way?)
Knows facts about his life that are either going to be common knowledge, or useless because nobody else knows them so he may as well be making them up.

Copy X's reasons for why he's X:
Looks like X.
Is in charge of Neo Arcadia, like X.
Has been known to be X for years.
Has the support of people who knew X.
Is a hero who visibly does his best for the people, like X.


Even if people did somehow get convinced that he was really an imposter, he's got Harpuia and friends supporting him. Obviously they'd be able to tell who the real X is, so if they support him, he must be real.

[Gauntlet101010]

Who's going to trust a little ball of light when it's quite obvious that the real X is ruling?

Elf X's reasons for why he's X:
Acts heroically. (How's he going to manage this, by the way?)
Knows facts about his life that are either going to be common knowledge, or useless because nobody else knows them so he may as well be making them up.

Copy X's reasons for why he's X:
Looks like X.
Is in charge of Neo Arcadia, like X.
Has been known to be X for years.
Has the support of people who knew X.
Is a hero who visibly does his best for the people, like X.


Even if people did somehow get convinced that he was really an imposter, he's got Harpuia's and the rest's support. Obviously they'd be able to tell who the real X is.

Now, he doesn't HAVE to look like a ball of light.  None of the Cyber Elves HAVE to look like balls of light.  Even in the game he makes himself look more like how'd you would expect most of the time.

This is a more convincing argument, however, my problem is that he does not even try.  And it's definately more of a problem in Zero 3, where Copy X acts more Maverick as time goes by and is clearly influenced by Wiel.  I'd have less of a problem with him trying and failing to convince people he's the real X.  As opposed to just letting people think he's the real deal and not trying at all.

I'm not sure about any of you guys, but if someone was committing genocide in my name, I'd try to clear the air.  When characters don't try to clear the air of that, it smacks of peculiarity.

[Flame]

which is why people think that it IS X gone maverick.
also, X doesnt try because of the afformentioned facts. it would be impossible to convince peoople who would dismiss it as X is clearly alive and well in Neo Arcadia.
plus hes given up trying. hes tired. hes tired of all that. he just let himself be swept away into the depths of cyberspace where he could finally truly rest from his destiny of endless fighting. remember Z1, eventually, he grew battle hardened, and it frightened him that he "no longer cared." and he asked zero to let him "rest a while longer" of course, this really didnt quite happen the way i see it, but he could be reffering to an active role. he doesnt want to fight anymore, and now, he knows he has to, but he doesnt want to, he doesnt feel ready yet.

also, what IS the Big 4 X thing? they clearly follow Copy X, but they also follow Original X. how does that work out? did they know that he was a copy in Z1? or do they simply blindly follow anyone with the name of "X"?

[Gauntlet101010]

which is why people think that it IS X gone maverick.
also, X doesnt try because of the afformentioned facts. it would be impossible to convince peoople who would dismiss it as X is clearly alive and well in Neo Arcadia.
plus hes given up trying. hes tired. hes tired of all that. he just let himself be swept away into the depths of cyberspace where he could finally truly rest from his destiny of endless fighting. remember Z1, eventually, he grew battle hardened, and it frightened him that he "no longer cared." and he asked zero to let him "rest a while longer" of course, this really didnt quite happen the way i see it, but he could be reffering to an active role. he doesnt want to fight anymore, and now, he knows he has to, but he doesnt want to, he doesnt feel ready yet.

Well, the "facts" as presented aren't 100% accurate, and are giving one heavy bias.  But the "fact" that he can't prove his "case" is irrelevant.

You don't see any problem with the story when X is fine with people thinking he's is a Maverick?  And that he, the pacifist, never tries to talk things over?  Not before things get out of hand, anyway.  Just because it's a "fact" that he'll fail.  In your mind that part of the story is 100% rock solid?