Topic: Legend of Zelda - The official Zelda thread

[Protoman Blues]

Well, it's timeline rumor talk again!

So according to the Hyrule Historia book, which again we better get here , the official Zelda timeline has quite possibly been revealed. For those who don't feel like clicking on the link. here it is.

Skyward Sword -> Minish Cap -> Four Swords -> Ocarina of Time (splits into three timelines)
Timeline A (Where the Hero of Time fails) - Link to the Past -> Oracle of Ages/Seasons -> Link's Awakening -> The Legend of Zelda -> Zelda II: Link's Adventure
Timeline B (7 Years in the Past after the Hero of Time defeats Ganon) - Majora's Mask -> Twilight Princess -> Four Swords Adventures
Timeline C (After the Hero of Time defeats Ganon) - Wind Waker -> Phantom Hourglass -> Spirit Tracks

From what I've seen, Timeline A is what is confusing people more than anything, mainly the "Where the Hero of Time fails" thing because as far as we know, he doesn't fail. Personally what I think is that there's much more of the Legend of Zelda we haven't seen yet and that sometime in the future we'll get a game that connects the Timeline A scenario between Ocarina & Link to the Past. Supposedly a Wii U game & 3DS game are indeed in the works, so either one of them could work towards that.

Anyway, thoughts?

[Karai]

Hah, triple timeline! That's gold. FSA not immediately after FS. And we still don't know the order of Oracle games I know it doesn't matter, but these two are my favorite. Anyway, interesting. Gotta play OoT again and search for possible opportunity for Link's failure.

[VixyNyan]

I bought the book. Waiting for it to show up soon. ^^;

[Protoman Blues]

If it doesn't get translated for the states, I'll have to buy the Japanese copy as well!

[Zan]

Anyway, thoughts?

People should really read what the book itself says before jumping to all sorts of conclusions based on hearsay. With how accurate the Twilight Princess section has been, the Four Sword Adventures placement that Korean dude came up is just mindbogglingly stupid. The game itself is crystal clear it is a direct sequel to Four Sword, with a short time of peace, and nothing else, to separate the two.

That said, A Link To The Past on a third branch following an alternate version of Ocarina of Time seems just about right, though.

[Protoman Blues]

Yeah, I've always kinda thought Four Swords was it's own thing by itself and really had no connection to the other games. But I've never played them, so I have no accuracy regarding this.

[Mirby]

Here's one reason I don't trust that timeline.

The only image on that site is the cover. No scans are provided as proof of the timeline there, just the cover.

I can't trust something that has no actual PROOF of it being there.

[Solar]

It's already been confirmed on 2ch from what I've heard. Honestly, if nobody that also has the book has contradicted it by now I feel it's safe to call it legit.

Gotta play OoT again and search for possible opportunity for Link's failure.

It's not that Link "fails" in the sense that he could've gotten killed, but that because of time travel he never showed up again and Ganon took the Triforce without a hero to stop him. Then the Imprisoning War of alttp happened.

[Zan]

Yeah, I've always kinda thought Four Swords was it's own thing by itself and really had no connection to the other games. But I've never played them, so I have no accuracy regarding this.

It´s not that it doesn't fit anywhere. Know that, Four Sword Adventures has strong A Link To The Past imagery, Minish Cap has strong parallels to Skyward Sword, and the whole Force storyline is continue in the Adult Timeline with Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. It's just that there's absolutely no good reason to be separating games within the series from one another, especially not Four Sword to Four Sword Adventures.

It's already been confirmed on 2ch from what I've heard. Honestly, if nobody that also has the book has contradicted it by now I feel it's safe to call it legit.

The third branch had effectively been confirmed the moment the contents page was revealed. There "The decline of Hyrule, and the last hero" section preceded both Child and Adult Timeline sections, but not the beginning and Ocarina of Time section.  This section follows A Link To The Past to the "last hero", who is the main character from the Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link; there are none that came after him. Ergo, the stories of Twilight Princess and Wind Waker exist parallel to A Link To The Past.

Four Sword's placement on the other hand, has not been confirmed. There is no section for it in the contents, and there has been no proper source for it as of yet.

It's not that Link "fails" in the sense that he could've gotten killed, but that because of time travel he never showed up again and Ganon took the Triforce without a hero to stop him. Then the Imprisoning War of alttp happened.

Same as before, before scans and direct translations appear, all of it is hearsay. At best, we can reason what happened based on the ingame manual right now (in which no hero took up the master sword and the Knights of Hyrule were indeed defeated in the climatic battle), but that one is very subject to changing legend and folk-tale.

[Solar]

Oh yeah, I was just saying what I believe happened. There are two ways the split could've happened, either every action causes a new timeline to appear, or they appear because of time travel. If failure=Link's death at Ganondorf's hands, then it has to be the former because then there's no way for Ganon to be defeated and for timelines B and C to happen. If the latter is how the timelines work, then we can blame it either on Link being required to travel back and forth in time at least once during OoT or on Zelda sending Link back on time. Yeah, all of this could probably mean that there can be many different timelines (even ones branching from Skyward Sword from what I've heard), but that's irrelevent tbh since no games have taken place there.

[Protoman Blues]

It´s not that it doesn't fit anywhere. Know that, Four Sword Adventures has strong A Link To The Past imagery, Minish Cap has strong parallels to Skyward Sword, and the whole Force storyline is continue in the Adult Timeline with Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. It's just that there's absolutely no good reason to be separating games within the series from one another, especially not Four Sword to Four Sword Adventures.

Ah okay. So where would you put Four Swords & Four Swords Adventure?

[Karai]

It's not that Link "fails" in the sense that he could've gotten killed, but that because of time travel he never showed up again and Ganon took the Triforce without a hero to stop him. Then the Imprisoning War of alttp happened.

Maybe I worded my post wrongly, but I had in mind some in-game event. 'Hero of Time fail == player's Game Over' would be the very dumbest thing of the year

As for further theorizing, I'll just wait until scans pop out. We could wait 25 years, why not 3 days more?

[Zan]

Ah okay. So where would you put Four Swords & Four Swords Adventure?

Ideally, they would just go together as their own thing. But if one really had to satisfy obscure continuity like the Palace of the Four Sword in LttP, then separating Minish Cap isn't a big deal, as long as Four Sword and Four Sword Adventures stay together.

Oh yeah, I was just saying what I believe happened. There are two ways the split could've happened, either every action causes a new timeline to appear, or they appear because of time travel. If failure=Link's death at Ganondorf's hands, then it has to be the former because then there's no way for Ganon to be defeated and for timelines B and C to happen. If the latter is how the timelines work, then we can blame it either on Link being required to travel back and forth in time at least once during OoT or on Zelda sending Link back on time. Yeah, all of this could probably mean that there can be many different timelines (even ones branching from Skyward Sword from what I've heard), but that's irrelevent tbh since no games have taken place there.

I'm not even sure if we should try to justify this with time travel mechanics; first and foremost it's just that Ocarina is some sort of reboot of the series that adapts A Link To the Past's manual story as its own thing. It's the "movie of the book," so to say.

But if we absolutely had to... LttP demands several requirements to be fulfilled:
-Ganondorf acquires the whole Triforce; the Sacred Realm is transformed into the Dark World
-The Master Sword, to be wielded by one of the knight's lineage, remained unused; no hero was found.
-Ganondorf had never lost against a little kid before.
-The awakened sages are Rauru, Ruto, Saria, Nabooru and... Mido?
-Before the sages seal was cast, the Knights of Hyrule died in battle against Ganondorf.
-People believed the knight's lineage had ended, and no one would be able to stop Ganondorf's escape.
-Somewhere, somehow, the knight's lineage survived within the civilian populace, and gave rise to the new hero.

All in all, we cannot eliminate the Hero of Time from time itself, otherwise the flood and Wind Waker would just repeat all over again. In that regard, maybe Skyward Sword presents the most elegant solution. But who knows... waiting for scans and translation still. >.>

[Solar]

Well, the only way for those conditions to be met would be that either no Link shows up or he fails, isn‘t it?

Posted on: December 22, 2011, 12:33:21 PMThe exact timeline is now 100% confirmed and it really is the one at the top of this page


It'd be nice if there were scans of this.

Video showing the whole book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W77ry6Srx_I

...can any of you translate whatever you can from the video?

[Zan]

Yeah, it's official. Most of it makes sense. Except a few things. First and foremost as said before, Four Sword's separation from Four Sword Adventures. Just review the game's intro:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N3p7_5VLgo[/youtube]

As you can see, the game implicates a direct follow up from the first Four Sword game, but the book says otherwise. It even seems to implicate Four Sword shares the same Link as Minish Cap... which is just weird considering Vaati is a legend by then. It definitely has got some explaining to do on that one.  I'm inclined to believe they got confused between the manual's story (which talks of Vaati's first appearence) and the game's actual events (which occur right before FSA)

Another thing that doesn't quite make sense is the placement of Oracle of Seasons and Ages as a direct follow up of A Link To The Past and a direct prequel to Link's Awakening; Zelda's design is too vastly different for my liking, but oh well.

[Solar]

It even seems to implicate Four Sword shares the same Link as Minish Cap

...how?

[Zan]

...how?

It´s rather perplexing, but that´s what your image shows; there's no gap between the Minish Cap and Four Sword images. Again, I think somebody just got confused between the manual and the game's story when they wrote Hyrule Historia.

[Solar]

I think you're looking to much into that. The events of those games are probably just relatively close.

[Mirby]

Here's a translation of that page you linked earlier, Tai.

[Zan]

I think you're looking to much into that. The events of those games are probably just relatively close.

Which is in contradiction with what Four Sword Adventures says.

[Solar]

Not necessarily, but I do agree the position of the FS games feels weird. Personally, I‘d keep FSA where it is and move FS right before it, although that potentially creates other issues.

[Zan]

Slightly clearer photograph.

As you can see, with the exception of Ocarina and Majora, all images of games sharing the same Link are grouped together. For Minish Cap -> Four Sword, this shouldn't be; Vaati is a legend by then.

Personally, I‘d keep FSA where it is and move FS right before it, although that potentially creates other issues.

That's pretty much what I've been saying. And it doesn't create any issues that I know of, having played both games.  In fact, it would solve all contradictions in this timeline.

[Mirby]

The reason those are close together is because they're part of the same era, not necessarily the same Link.

It shows that in the image I linked above.

[Solar]

When it came out, Aonuma said FS was the oldest story, that‘s the problem.

[Mirby]

There's also evidence that says that Miyamoto put LttP after AoL, some years back. I'll see if I can't find that interview...

But yeah, I think this retcons all past timeline talk from officials and streamlines it into this timeline.