Topic: Ancient Theories/Fanon

[Bag of Magic Food]

What if Wily was in exile, but he wore a disguise that fooled Right long enough that Wily could work for him until there was an opportunity to steal the robots?  I mean, he had a pretty good disguise going on in that 6 game!

[Gauntlet101010]

And I don't mean to incur Zan's wrath with this statement, but thanks to the weeaboos, I hate the idea of separating canons by region in cases like this. Because, inevitably, the Japanese version will be the one hailed as the "true canon", and the other regions will be put down, simply because they aren't the Japanese version.

While I agree with the sentiment, I gotta disagree with the practise.  It mixes things up too much.  You wouln't be correct to say that Wily was Light's assistant in the Japanese games.  However, it is the case in the US games without any doubt.  There's no "true canon" - anything made or licensed by Capcom is canon.  Period.  However, the continuities can only be true to themselves.

Rather that he's not actively trying to step out of that is a big difference.

So .... in your opinion, stealing Light's robots and later making his own army doesn't constitute stepping out of that role?  

Wily could really have hated his job as Light's assistant.  Lots of people hate theoir jobs.  It's easy to imagine he'd be dissatisfied.  There is no conflict.  I think it's your own interpretation of Wily that has more of a conflict here.

Just because his pride / resentment is great now doesn't mean that his pride was always so great.  Moreover, even if it was, life is a funny thing.  Sometimes you wind up working for people you utterly despise.  People do, at times, hate their bosses.  Sometimes they think they can do a MUCH better job and aremore compotent than their bosses.

No matter how I look at it, there's no no points of contention for Wily feeling superior to Light, and yet being his assistant.

Surely, for those that followed said US canon, it's a retcon of massive proportions

You just countered your own point.  It's a retcon and therefor anomalous by it's very definition.   Moreover, Protoman's portion of that game is not relevant to the main story and is not relevant to the main discussion.  However, if you want to include it then Wily was simply not Light's assistant at the time of Protoman's creation because Wily didn't recognise him in that game.  Therefore Protoman has no reason to be resentful anyway.

According to that story, Wily had no involvement in Blues' creation. But when Blues ran away from Dr. Right, his defect eventually caused him to break down. Wily discovered the broken down Blues and succeeded in repairing him. From that point on, Blues owes Wily his life and therefore helped the doctor until he discovered his true nature.

So, in other words, Wily activated an incomplete robot even in the Japanese game continuity.  So that's pretty much what I thought.  And ... nothing of this changes if Wily assissted Light in making him.  Nothing at all.  Even if you think Wily was there to assist Light in making a robot, he finished Protoman off and the story still works.  However, if you're bringing in PU then Wily doesn't know Proto and, therefore, this point of contention is moot.

Fun fact: mangas are not drawn completely by their artists.  In order to speed things up they have assistants who do background work and speedlines and such.  And yet, they do not really get credit as the artist for the book.  Leonardo DaVinchi had the same sort of system with assistants who painted some flowers in order to "assist" him in his paintings.  And yet Leo is given credit for his paintings.  This isn't any different.

The US manual says "assistant".  Not "co-creator".  And it doesn't even say in what capacity he assisted Light in.  It doesn't mention when he became Light's assistant (it just had to be before all six robots were finished).  ALL of that is pure speculation by the fans.  Your points of contention are all against your own speculation.

There is a difference between a lab assistant and a co-creator.  A very big difference.

Edit: By the way, in regards to the implication that Wily stole Proto witht he other MM1 robots; it's implied in that it's the only opportunity he had in the US continuity.  It was popularised by the RS cartoon.  However I hasten to note that that is NOT an official explanation for the US games.  It could very well have happened as it did in the Japanese continuity.

[Zan]

So .... in your opinion, stealing Light's robots and later making his own army doesn't constitute stepping out of that role? 

Remember that we're talking about how the supposed "region" canon is different from the "other region" canon.

If you compare the bare bones presentation of solely the first three games, then of course it works. But when compared to the whole series as its presented now, it does not.

That Wily steals Light's robots and takes over the world is not the point, he does that no matter how you cut it. But what's simply contradictory is comparing the notion of Wily as Light's assistant that worked on the industrial robots with the rival Dr. Wily that was exiled from the scientific community.

The story as it exists todays sets Wily up to be be a rival. A rival whose own research is consistently second best to Light's work. At some point, Wily's shunned and exiled from the scientific community due to the increasingly questionable morality of his work. After years of exile he returns to have his revenge on Dr. Light and the scientific community by reprogramming his robots and taking over the world.

This is a lot different from the assistant explanation in which Wily would work on the exact same research. But Wily turned disloyal and felt that taking over the world by reprogramming their robots was the way to go.

If we're to compare the two. Contradictions become immediately clear. One of them is that a Wily in exile could not have worked officially on the industrial robots. Delving deeper into the exact wordings of the manual also establishes that Wily has no other motive than "taking over the world." It's also emphasized that "their" first humanoid robot is MegaMan. The later introduced "ProtoMan" is therefore not a joint creation.

It's a retcon and therefor anomalous by it's very definition. 

Powered Up is solely a grandiose retcon to the "US canon" of "MegaMan1", it is largely faithful to that which in the "Japanese canon" has been established long ago. If you're not going to take the newest localized releases as fact, you effectively reduce your "US canon" to the point where the localization crew stopped completely rewriting the game in question. That is, almost exclusively the first game.

Wily didn't recognise him in that game.

I think you really need to replay Powered Up again. Wily did recognize ProtoMan and ProtoMan recognized Wily. Wily quite clearly emphasizes ProtoMan is a robot that does not follow orders and ProtoMan quite clearly puts emphasis on the power Wily had given him. Wily's question at the start of the game is not a serious one, he's simply mocking ProtoMan.

So, in other words, Wily activated an incomplete robot even in the Japanese game continuity.  So that's pretty much what I thought.

I think you misunderstand the situation. Light activated the unfinished ProtoMan. That ProtoMan was dying because of Light's mistakes. Wily attempted to fix whatever it was that troubled Blues with the best of his ability. Wily saved his life, Light put it in danger. That Wily was incapable of completely eliminating the defect in question is not something ProtoMan would see as foul play. Maybe it was, but that's not something he would realize until after learning Wily's true character.

The US manual says "assistant".  Not "co-creator".  And it doesn't even say in what capacity he assisted Light in.  It doesn't mention when he became Light's assistant (it just had to be before all six robots were finished).  ALL of that is pure speculation by the fans.  Your points of contention are all against your own speculation.

There is a difference between a lab assistant and a co-creator.  A very big difference.

Edit: By the way, in regards to the implication that Wily stole Proto witht he other MM1 robots; it's implied in that it's the only opportunity he had in the US continuity.  It was popularised by the RS cartoon.  However I hasten to note that that is NOT an official explanation for the US games.  It could very well have happened as it did in the Japanese continuity.

And as I pointed out above, I do believe that the US canon story in question does not allow for the possibility of Wily making ProtoMan. "MegaMan" was their first and they then proceeded to make six industrial robots.

ProtoMan's creator is only mentioned as Dr. Light in MegaMan3 and you're not going to find a decent mention of Roll until MegaMan4, in which "MegaMan" was changed to "Rock". After the first game, mention of Wily working on MegaMan/Rock have completely vanished, only Light is stated in such games as MegaMan4, MegaMan8, MegaMan and Bass.

[The Great Gonzo]

I thought the only rewriting MMPU did was changing "Rock" to "Mega", and that felt more like a localization fumble than a deliberate retcon, to me.

I think Gauntlet has it right, here; the way you describe Wily does sound more like how you see him rather than how he actually is. Did the original games or sourcebooks ever say anything about Wily other than "he's a mad scientist who wants to take over the world, better stop him"?

And as faithful as you say RMRM is, there's one small problem with the ending: all of Light's robots (assuming you only used the Megabuster on them) are standing there waiting for you. Except that in other games, Light's robots are trying to kill you (like in the arcade games). Without the possibility of reprogramming or clones, what the hell went wrong there?

[Flame]

They took a page from the manga, and had them repaired and their programming restored. MHX isnt the only game it seems, that has drawn some inspiration from the mangas. Ariga has the RM's back with Light after the Megaman 1 story.
I guess they used that and included it into the game.

[Zan]

I think Gauntlet has it right, here; the way you describe Wily does sound more like how you see him rather than how he actually is. Did the original games or sourcebooks ever say anything about Wily other than "he's a mad scientist who wants to take over the world, better stop him"?

The books clearly emphasize Wily's achievements as nominee of the Nobel Prize, runner up of the world engineer grand prix and four year consecutive runner up of the LIT manual design contest; Light got the Nobel Prize and Light won all other things in which Wily became second. The story further establishes Wily's rivalry with Light as his one motivation in life and what he attempted to accomplish by stealing Light's robot was revenge. A revenge he had been planning for the many years he has been in exile.

Outside of their mutual time in Robot University, where they both obtained their PhDs, Wily has always set himself as Light's eternal rival in the field of science. Outside of any hidden agenda or legally forced cooperation (as with R3, RnF and SAR), Wily's not likely to work with Light. And all the times he has, he has worked with him as Light's equal, never as his assistant.

And as faithful as you say RMRM is, there's one small problem with the ending: all of Light's robots (assuming you only used the Megabuster on them) are standing there waiting for you. Except that in other games, Light's robots are trying to kill you (like in the arcade games). Without the possibility of reprogramming or clones, what the hell went wrong there?

It should be clear that Wily often successfully recaptures and reprograms the robots in question. Likewise, Rockman manages to return them to their senses each time. That is why they would assist Rockman during the events of Super Adventure and Battle and Chase but stand in opposition to him during the World and Arcade games, as well as the events of Rockman8.

[Gauntlet101010]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQa8aVS-X3c&feature=PlayList&p=7C0FC1DC1952BA9A&index=0&playnext=1

Wily says "who are you?"  While he does say Protoman doesn't take orders, he wouldn't be asking who he was to begin with.  Not if he knows who he is.  It looks like Proto's missing a line of dialogue there, but Wily does not recognise him.  But even if he does ....

And as I pointed out above, I do believe that the US canon story in question does not allow for the possibility of Wily making ProtoMan. "MegaMan" was their first and they then proceeded to make six industrial robots.

Then your point of contention about Protoman resenting Wily is moot anyway and I'm not entirely sure why you brought it up.

Remember that we're talking about how the supposed "region" canon is different from the "other region" canon.

I dunno what you're talking about, but I'm talking about Wily being Light's assistant not really being a problem in the US continuity.

The books clearly emphasize Wily's achievements as nominee of the Nobel Prize, runner up of the world engineer grand prix and four year consecutive runner up of the LIT manual design contest; Light got the Nobel Prize and Light won all other things in which Wily became second. The story further establishes Wily's rivalry with Light as his one motivation in life and what he attempted to accomplish by stealing Light's robot was revenge. A revenge he had been planning for the many years he has been in exile.

Outside of their mutual time in Robot University, where they both obtained their PhDs, Wily has always set himself as Light's eternal rival in the field of science. Outside of any hidden agenda or legally forced cooperation (as with R3, RnF and SAR), Wily's not likely to work with Light. And all the times he has, he has worked with him as Light's equal, never as his assistant.

I just said I didn't advocate mixing canons.  But, let's enter the world of fanon and  mix them anyway.  Since you insist.

So, Light took his rival-in-exile in as a lab assistant.  In which he assisted in .... unnamed and unkown ways.  Maybe Dr. Wily felt humiliated, but had things like "rent" to wory about and needed things like "food".  Maybe he saw it as a temporary measure.  As it stands, nothing says he liked being Light's assistant.  As I said before, life is a funny thing.

It's less about what you think Wily would do based off the source materials, but what the source materials say Wily did.  If they said Wily liked to dance the funky chicken, then Wily likes to dance the funky chicken.  As it stads, if you insist on mixing the two, then Wily simply did all those things you mentioned and then became Light's lab assistant.  Much to his chagrin, I am sure.

[Zan]

Wily says "who are you?"  While he does say Protoman doesn't take orders, he wouldn't be asking who he was to begin with.  Not if he knows who he is.  It looks like Proto's missing a line of dialogue there, but Wily does not recognise him.  But even if he does ....

Wily was mocking him. They both recognize each other clearly.

Then your point of contention about Protoman resenting Wily is moot anyway and I'm not entirely sure why you brought it up.

As you may recall we were, as a result of Gonzo's remark on the cartoon, talking about applying the RS-cartoon's Wily made ProtoMan notion to the games. The contradiction that would arise with applying it to the "games" is that ProtoMan would hate Wily as much as Light and therefore not work for him. That is, when you evaluate it compared to Powered Up, which was as much released in the US as any other game.

Outside of Powered Up, there's no contradiction with any other "game" because the "games" only say Light did it, leaving Wily's possible involvement unaccounted for. Now, if you were to compare the very same Wily made ProtoMan notion to the "manual", and evaluate the statements there as nitpickingly literal; Wily and Light's cooperation first created MegaMan, therefore none can precede it.

It depends on the approach; if we regard Powered Up as overruling the US canon of old, the ProtoMan does not hate Wily contradiction shows why the RS cartoon is incorrect nowadays. If we take the cartoon with the very manual its based on, the MegaMan was first contradiction shows why the RS cartoon was never correct to begin with.

I dunno what you're talking about, but I'm talking about Wily being Light's assistant not really being a problem in the US continuity.

You might want to define what the "US continuinity" is. Because as far as I'm concerned, said US continuinity is either solely MM1's manual, which has sorely been overruled by MM4, MM8, MM&B and MMPU. Or we take all the games, Powered Up included.

And like I said, taking solely MM1 and its manual as a distinct canon, of course there's no contradiction. There are no other sources.

Taking all the games, the "US canon" automatically becomes the "Japanese canon" as the US canon is and always will be just a translation.

I just said I didn't advocate mixing canons.  But, let's enter the world of fanon and  mix them anyway.  Since you insist.

I was replying to the Great Gonzo who wanted to know what the original sources said.

[The Great Gonzo]

Wily was mocking him. They both recognize each other clearly.

I doubt that. "Who are you? I have no need for a robot that won't take orders" sounds more like Wily doesn't think that weird robot would take his orders rather than mockery, to me.

Besides, Proto's scenario in MMPU/RMRM is an AU (Rock was taken as well), so what does it matter?

[Zan]

I doubt that. "Who are you? I have no need for a robot that won't take orders" sounds more like Wily doesn't think that weird robot would take his orders rather than mockery, to me.

The very same story refers to Blues' nuclear power core and to stopping Wily's villainy with the powers he had given him.

Blues was not built by Light with a nuclear core; originally he had a Right Solar Pile power core, the same as Rock. The nuclear core he has in Rockman Rockman is a change Wily himself had done to his systems when he repaired Blues. That Wily tampered with Blues' systems to this extend in an effort to fix his power system defect is related to the powers he was given by Wily with which he will stop his villainy. Just look at his statement of "being born with weapons in his hands". It's said that after the industrial robots were created, a robot with built in weapons was also suddenly made. This robot is Blues, the original humanoid robot. The original humanoid, yet made with built-in weapons after the industrial robots were developed? The conclusion to all of this; Blues was reborn by Wily with weapons built into him.

In relation to this, the sourcebooks have also postulated that it's possible that because of Wily having worked on Blues, he knows how to reprogram Right's industrial robots. There are thus clear cut hints that this aspect of Blues' backstory occurs before the first game, Rockman Rockman reflects this by giving us valuable insight into that timeframe and in doing so established that Blues' rebirth by Wily was after Right's creation of the industrial robots.

Besides, Proto's scenario in MMPU/RMRM is an AU (Rock was taken as well), so what does it matter?

All of Rockman Rockman's alternate scenarios abide by a single common past until the moment of the game's beginning. Everything revealed in that story is a testimony to Blues before the events of the first game and therefore reveals a great deal about him in regards to his motivations in the events of Rockman3.

[The Great Gonzo]

Still, Proto's scenario sees Rock get captured along with most of Light's other robots, meaning that the regular events of MM1 couldn't happen in that path. So, those inconsistencies don't apply there.

[Zan]

Just because the first game's event can't happen in the exact same manner doesn't mean that the past leading up to isn't the exact same. It's no different from the player's choice of letting Zero awaken in X5, getting the Z-saber in X3 or not retrieving all of Zero's parts in X2.

Likewise, it's very very comparable to choosing to play as Vent/Aile and Grey/Ashe in the ZX-series. As the developers explained there; "same world, different story." Both exist, are chosen ones, work at Giro Express, but when the assignment came in by chance Vent is brought along instead of Aile or by chance Aile is brought along instead Vent. The past is the exact same until the moment the player takes control and chooses one over the other.

For the sequels, the ZX-series has chosen to go with both scenarios; those who chose Aile also chose Grey, those who chose Vent also chose Ashe. The classic series has simply decided that it continues its story from the story of Rock, instead of for instance the story of Roll. The same reasoning is applied to such oddities as X or Zero in X4, Rockman or Forte in R&F, VAVA mode in IHX, etc.

[The Great Gonzo]

However, MMPU is a foregone conclusion, while ZX wasn't; not to mention, ZX's character choices work together, unlike MMPU's with the rest of the MM timeline. Megaman's scenario is the only one that doesn't violate the main series canon; Proto's is incredibly screwed up in relation to the rest of the series (and I imagine that's not the localization's fault), so it doesn't matter what the past was like.

The only way I can see Wily recognizing Proto after that remark is if he saw Proto's blueprints, and even then, they'd look different from the final robot and it'd only explain the Joes (if they weren't just coincidence).

[Gauntlet101010]

Protoman

Okay, all of that is besides the point (that Wily being Light's assistant is fine). Either Wily being Light's assistant does not mean he is his co-creator, or Wily repaired him and saved himself from proto's resentment or

And as I pointed out above, I do believe that the US canon story in question does not allow for the possibility of Wily making ProtoMan.

Whichever way you choose to go, Proto has no reason to resent Wily.  I mean, take your pick.  Proto not resenting Wily is no impediment to Wily being Light's assistant.

What is US canon?

US game continuity is all the games.  That means manuals and game intros.  I won't even go into MM&B, MM8, or whatever else you think is anomalous .... this is about Wily being Light's assistant.

Powered up's multiple scenarios are anomalies.  Frankly, they're anomalies even within the Japanese canon.  Especially Proto (where's his gratitude here?).  But, any way you slice it, it doesn't even matter.  Because you just said that Wily has no possibility in making Proto anyway.  So arguing it is besides the point.

[Bag of Magic Food]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQa8aVS-X3c&feature=PlayList&p=7C0FC1DC1952BA9A&index=0&playnext=1

Why did I expect him to say "The name's Wily!  Wily the robot sprite, they call me.  I heard your wish, and, well, you're gonna get it!  No more robots for you from now on!"?

[Flame]

This discussion as somehow gotten confusing.
Powered up is based on "what if" scenarios. Plus, If I recall ight, in the end, even though Wily stole Rock, he was unable to reprogram him, and thus made an evil copy which is the one you fight.
But I never played it, so I might be wrong.

[Zan]

Megaman's scenario is the only one that doesn't violate the main series canon;

Proto's is incredibly screwed up in relation to the rest of the series (and I imagine that's not the localization's fault), so it doesn't matter what the past was like.

Rockman and Forte, RockmanX2, RockmanX4, RockmanX5 and RockmanX6 each have a multitude of events that do not happen in the timeline. They are the exact same way as Rockman Rockman's alternate events. All of these events happened as a result of player interference. Though all of it shares a mutual past, the future can no longer take the same course as the sequels, yet all those events are indisputably canon.

Case in point, Forte could never have faced Wily in Rockman and Forte; Rockman did. X could never have fought Zero because Zero fought his copy. RockmanX4 is still highly questionable in regards to who did what; neither of the stories have been proven to be wholly true. RockmanX5 can't have Zero awaken because X still remembers Zero in X6. In RockmanX6, the events where Zero are not found can't happen because of the events of RockmanX7 demanding Zero returned during X6. How is all that any different from what Rockman Rockman does?

The story of "Rockman Blues" is not at all messed up with the story of the rest of the series. All revealed backstory is in agreement with the events preceding the first game. The same holds true for "Rockman Roll", "Rockman Elecman" and the other alternate stories from that game. I don't see how it can be denied that Blues and Wily met before Rockman Rockman; he says so himself. Wily's words at the beginning of the game are not to be taken at face value; upon seeing Blues there, he has decided to break his bonds with Blues because Blues is a robot that can't take orders, therefore he acts like he doesn't know him.

Wily being Light's assistant does not mean he is his co-creator

US game continuity is all the games.  That means manuals and game intros.  I won't even go into MM&B, MM8, or whatever else you think is anomalous .... this is about Wily being Light's assistant.

For the record, the first game's manual treats Wily as both assistant and co-creator. Even though Light gets the most credit, MegaMan is still "their" first robot.

If you would look at the ingame mentions in MM4, MM&B, you would notice that all of them ignore the MM1 manual. The story of "Rock/MegaMan being made by Light" is different from "Rock/MegaMan being made by Light and Wily." You might also notice that "MetalMan" is the first robot Wily created, not "Rock/MegaMan".

Then there's what the manuals say; Rock himself was Light's "assistant" according to the Megaman and Bass manual. That same manual says Wily was Light's classmate at robot engineering school and they became rivals in their professional life. MM8's manual says roughly the same thing; both emphasize Rock/MegaMan is solely made by Light, and both emphasize Wily is Light's rival. Wily's very own MM8 biography sets himself as someone that's on a quest to become the greatest designer because as far back as their time at the "Robot Institute of Technology", Light got all the attention and accolades.

Frankly, all sources after MM1 disagree with the notion of Wily as Light's assistant.

Really, all the games are and should be seen as translations of the original games. Any deviation between the translation and original should be disregarded as part of the canon solely because subsequent games do not take into account errors in localization. Though, if you're so intend on following errors in localization, I suppose you also see Wily as X's comrade just because Sigma said so.

[The Great Gonzo]

The story of "Rockman Blues" is not at all messed up with the story of the rest of the series. All revealed backstory is in agreement with the events preceding the first game.

It is not. Proto has that unstable nuclear core before Wily met him; in the original games, it was a solar reactor that was messing him up.

Wily's words at the beginning of the game are not to be taken at face value; upon seeing Blues there, he has decided to break his bonds with Blues because Blues is a robot that can't take orders, therefore he acts like he doesn't know him.

There's "taking someone's words at face value" and then there's "constructing an entirely new meaning out of two short lines of dialogue". I don't remember there being any evidence that the two had met before.

Really, all the games are and should be seen as translations of the original games.

The originals can be fan-mistranslated or differently interpreted, though (remember Mr. Shin mentioning "Yakasa"?). And, yeah, errors in localization are annoying, but apart from those in the X series, I don't think any of them have been large enough to care about.

[Gauntlet101010]

For the record, the first game's manual treats Wily as both assistant and co-creator. Even though Light gets the most credit, MegaMan is still "their" first robot.

If you would look at the ingame mentions in MM4, MM&B, you would notice that all of them ignore the MM1 manual. The story of "Rock/MegaMan being made by Light" is different from "Rock/MegaMan being made by Light and Wily." You might also notice that "MetalMan" is the first robot Wily created, not "Rock/MegaMan".

Then there's what the manuals say; Rock himself was Light's "assistant" according to the Megaman and Bass manual. That same manual says Wily was Light's classmate at robot engineering school and they became rivals in their professional life. MM8's manual says roughly the same thing; both emphasize Rock/MegaMan is solely made by Light, and both emphasize Wily is Light's rival. Wily's very own MM8 biography sets himself as someone that's on a quest to become the greatest designer because as far back as their time at the "Robot Institute of Technology", Light got all the attention and accolades.

Frankly, all sources after MM1 disagree with the notion of Wily as Light's assistant.

Really, all the games are and should be seen as translations of the original games. Any deviation between the translation and original should be disregarded as part of the canon solely because subsequent games do not take into account errors in localization. Though, if you're so intend on following errors in localization, I suppose you also see Wily as X's comrade just because Sigma said so.

And ALL of this is merely your interpretation of the materials conflicting with the notion that Wily was Light's assistant.  None of that is official materials conflcting with the notion.

MM1's manual says "assistant".  Not "Co-creator".  Even if it says Megaman is "their first robot", the relationship between the two is clear: lead scientist and assistant.  

Light's rival could have become his assistant.  There is no discontinuity.  You're creating a fuss over it, but it's just not there.  Even if it wasn't mention ever again, the discontinuity is still just not there.

Protoman

So you don't take "Who are you?" at face value but you do take "their robot" as such.  You have a strange double standard.  After this it seems even more clear that we're arguing your own personal canon against Wily being Light's assistant. 

Won't even try addressing points in his scenario.  Protoman, the XZ series, and the X series are all besides the point.  Frankly, MM4, 8, and R&F are entirely besides the point as well.  I should make a Straw Man spite to use here.

[Zan]

It is not. Proto has that unstable nuclear core before Wily met him; in the original games, it was a solar reactor that was messing him up.

I think you got that in reverse. The mentioned "unstable nuclear core" is the one Wily gave to Blues. Light originally built him with the solar one.

Here's the excerpt from HeatMan and Delta's research into what the classic books say about Blues:

Upon Proto Man's completion, Dr. Light realized there was a flaw in Proto Man's power generator and wanted to repair it. Proto Man seemingly misunderstood Dr. Light's intentions, fleeing the lab believing the operation would destroy his individuality.

Proto Man remained isolated over time as the flaw in his power generator grew worse. But just before he would have ceased functioning, he was found by Dr. Wily. Dr. Wily replaced his solar energy power generator with an atomic power generator. He also modified Proto Man to have battle capabilities.

----

Proto Man, serving Dr. Wily, attacked Mega Man on various occasions under the identity of Break Man. Due to the nature of his atomic power generator he could only battle for short periods of time.

I don't remember there being any evidence that the two had met before.

Taking into account the above;

---ProtoMan: When you attack me, watch out for my unstable nuclear core... One big shock and we're both vapor, I'd say.---

ProtoMan made clear cut mention of a piece of hardware he given by Wily. This is once again reflected in the following passage:

---ProtoMan: It's always been on my mind...what it means to be born with weapons in our hands. I haven't found the answer yet, but with the powers you've given me, I will crush your villainy.---

And the narration clearly specifies ProtoMan's being born with weapons as after the creation of humanoid industrial robots:

---The year 20XX. With the advancement of science, humans were able to create industrial humanoid robots. Then suddenly, a robot with built-in weapons made for combat was also developed...---

Which MegaMan agrees with, to his knowledge, there's no robot made for combat that precedes the creation of the Yellow Devil:

---MegaMan: This is a first! A robot made for combat?! Well, you're going to have to get out of my way!---

Yet ProtoMan is the first humanoid robot ever created. This apparent contradiction is only explained by Wily having worked on ProtoMan's "rebirth".

That Wily is well aware of who ProtoMan is, is also reflected in the following:

---Wily: I have no need for a robot that won't take orders! Nuhahahahah...---

"A robot that won't take orders", that is very much how ProtoMan described himself:
 
---ProtoMan: Robots are machines that follow orders. I'm a machine that doesn't, so what does that make me?---

Wily wouldn't have said that line unless he was well aware of his origins. He says similar things to all the others, rejecting them for certain quirks in their design and personality.

So, Wily knows exactly who ProtoMan is. ProtoMan is equipped with a power core Wily gave him. ProtoMan is equipped with weapons Wily gave him. ProtoMan acknowledges all of this.

Finally, I believe I mentioned before that the Japanese sourcebooks postulated the possibility that the only reason why Wily could so easily reprogram Dr. Light's robots was because of the knowledge he had obtained from having worked on ProtoMan's systems at the time he changed his solar core to a nuclear core.

Given all of the above, how can it be that Wily and ProtoMan never met?

Light's rival could have become his assistant.  There is no discontinuity.  You're creating a fuss over it, but it's just not there.

You know, you're looking for an outright statement: Wily was not Dr. Light's assistant!

Why would such a statement exist?

Why would the writers go to great lengths to disprove a notion that's not part of their story to begin with? We all know the original manual for Rockman1 did not speak of Wily as Light's assistant. So it's only natural that any and all subsequent materials that are not subject to the exact same treatment as the MegaMan1 manual, will not address the matter at hand.

Why are you clinging to "Wily is Light's assistant" as part of some region specific canon when none of the later games acknowledge that fact? Literally all of the later games have chosen to keep the "Japanese canon" as its story. The very fact that they did not keep up with consistently adding: "Wily was Light's assistant" into their manuals state that they've discarded the notion.

Powered Up is simply the final nail in the coffin as it is a remake of "MegaMan1" that just as many of the other sources disregards the Wily assistant story of favor of Wily as the exiled rival.

If the story was "US canon" they would have once again changed their manual to reflect it; they didn't.

In that regard, your "US canon" is actually "EU/German canon" as I recall hearing from BTD/Saber that the German manual for Powered Up did re-include the notion.

And well, that's just plain silly. The assistant notion is just something made up by people in charge of localization. There is no region specific canon, it doesn't exist; there is only the story that the original writers themselves wrote before we went through the process of translation/localization.

The originals can be fan-mistranslated or differently interpreted, though (remember Mr. Shin mentioning "Yakasa"?). And, yeah, errors in localization are annoying, but apart from those in the X series, I don't think any of them have been large enough to care about.

I consider making up whole pieces of story about Wily as Light's assistant as a error big enough to be cared about. Likewise to MegaMan telling Wily to go die and that he's more than robot, likewise to ProtoMan telling MegaMan they both have the same creator.

Those changes give completely the wrong impression than the original story.

And yes, the X-series is even worse.

[The Great Gonzo]

I think you got that in reverse. The mentioned "unstable nuclear core" is the one Wily gave to Blues. Light originally built him with the solar one.

Looking back on that, that wasn't worded very well, but I meant that he shouldn't have a nuclear core if he hasn't met Wily yet, because that's what he replaced Proto's original solar core with. The solar core was what was messing Protoman up originally, not the nuclear one (which still messed him up, but came after).

That Wily is well aware of who ProtoMan is, is also reflected in the following:

---Wily: I have no need for a robot that won't take orders! Nuhahahahah...---

Everything you mentioned up to this just sounds like a giant continuity headache on the fault of Capcom (on both sides of the pond).

Again, I must point out: It's highly likely that Wily got the impression that Proto wouldn't take orders.

Now, that "powers you've given me" line...just conflicts with the other timeline. (And who says Proto isn't just talking about the weapons he's acquired from the other bosses?) If he knows that Wily is a bad guy this early in the timeline, how can he be working with Wily in MM3? It makes no sense.

As for the manuals and game intros that don't mention Wily being an assistant to Light--could it be that they're just not reaching that far back into the past? And I don't find it implausible for Light to have had two assistants--Rock was a household robot, after all, and not a fellow scientist like Wily.

[Zan]

Everything you mentioned up to this just sounds like a giant continuity headache on the fault of Capcom (on both sides of the pond).

I don't see how it's a continuity headache at all.. It's as Atomic Fire's encyclopedia states. (That is what they found out by looking at the classic R1~8 sources from before RR's release.) Wily finds Blues, changes the reactor from solar to nuclear and equips him with weapons. This happens before the first game as Wily uses the obtained knowledge to reprogram Right's robots with ease.

All of Rockman Rockman agrees with this except a simple "Who are you?" question Wily asked upon first seeing him. Either a completely normal reaction to not excepting to see Blues there, or a rejection of Blues as his partner.

If he knows that Wily is a bad guy this early in the timeline, how can he be working with Wily in MM3? It makes no sense.

The difference is that by witnessing Wily's broadcast, Blues learned of Wily's true character as early as that. But, Blues never did listen to Wily's broadcast, therefore he followed Wily, unaware of his true character, until the incident in which Kalinka was kidnapped.

Within Rockman Rockman it was the player's choice to have either Blues, Rockman or anyone else to listen to that broadcast; according to the story of Rockman3, it was Rockman who did. Therefore Blues remained blissfully ignorant of Wily's true character. (The broadcast in question is mentioned in the MM8/R8 manual as the time Rock found out about Wily's intent.)

(And who says Proto isn't just talking about the weapons he's acquired from the other bosses?)

Blues does not take weapons from the boss robots in Rockman Rockman. He's only done so in the Arcade games and Rockman9. Therefore, he is not talking about that. He's talking about something Wily had done to him preceding the events of Rockman Rockman; giving him his nuclear core and supplying him with weapons.

So you don't take "Who are you?" at face value but you do take "their robot" as such.  You have a strange double standard.  After this it seems even more clear that we're arguing your own personal canon against Wily being Light's assistant.

Narration has to be taken at face value, characters do not. The narration does not have reasons to say anything but the undeniable truth, the narration has no reason to be influenced by circumstance, the narrator is not a character.

[The Great Gonzo]

Blues does not take weapons from the boss robots in Rockman Rockman. He's only done so in the Arcade games and Rockman9. Therefore, he is not talking about that.

*hits self for her crappy memory*

I don't see how it's a continuity headache at all.

Here's the problem. The entirety of of MMPU, Proto is trying to stop Wily. Towards the end, he clearly says that he'll stop Wily's "villainy". Originally, Proto wasn't trying to stop diddly (except Light repairing him), and he didn't know Wily was a bad guy.

Thus, Proto's scenario in MMPU does not match up with the rest of the series.

"Who are you?"

ither a completely normal reaction to not excepting to see Blues there,

I think a more normal reaction would be more like, "What are you doing here?", not "WHO ARE YOU?" That implies that he doesn't recognize Proto at all.

[Zan]

Here's the problem. The entirety of of MMPU, Proto is trying to stop Wily. Towards the end, he clearly says that he'll stop Wily's "villainy". Originally, Proto wasn't trying to stop diddly (except Light repairing him), and he didn't know Wily was a bad guy.

Thus, Proto's scenario in MMPU does not match up with the rest of the series.

I believe I've already explained this:

The difference is that by witnessing Wily's broadcast, Blues learned of Wily's true character as early as that. But, Blues never did listen to Wily's broadcast, therefore he followed Wily, unaware of his true character, until the incident in which Kalinka was kidnapped.

Within Rockman Rockman it was the player's choice to have either Blues, Rockman or anyone else to listen to that broadcast; according to the story of Rockman3, it was Rockman who did. Therefore Blues remained blissfully ignorant of Wily's true character. (The broadcast in question is mentioned in the MM8/R8 manual as the time Rock found out about Wily's intent.)

Do I really need to draw a complicated timeline diagram explaining how "Rockman Blues" works? It's the same way as "Rockman Elecman" and "Rockman Roll" operate.

The player's choice determines the circumstances of the story. The sequels determine what the player should have chosen. That is the explanation in its simplest form.

I think a more normal reaction would be more like, "What are you doing here?", not "WHO ARE YOU?" That implies that he doesn't recognize Proto at all.

If he even said "Who are you" in the Japanese script. I'm willing to wager that he actually noted his surprise in a a lot more ambiguous matter.

Really, given all the both RR and the whole of the classic series established, do you not think the "Who are you?"  line is in question instead of everything else?

[Gauntlet101010]

Why are you clinging to "Wily is Light's assistant" as part of some region specific canon when none of the later games acknowledge that fact? Literally all of the later games have chosen to keep the "Japanese canon" as its story. The very fact that they did not keep up with consistently adding: "Wily was Light's assistant" into their manuals state that they've discarded the notion.

Why are you trying so desperately to uncanonize a canon part of MM history?

I'm not "clinging". I don't have to.  It's there.  No matter how you spin the facts, bring in non-relevant parts of the story, bring in all the other MM games in every MM series that does or does not count in the US game continuity, and a lot of stuff not relevant to consideration, but nothing you can do will erase it.  

First you've tried insisting that it doesn't work within the story.  But it does well enough.  Then you say it doesn't work with Protoman's story.  But you refute your own point later by saying Wily couldn't have built Proto anyway.  Then you say it wouldn't work with the Japapanese stuff, which wasn't the point anyway.  Then you say it doesn't work with itself.  But it does.  And now you're saying it was never referenced again in the manuals or games which also is irrelevant to it being canon.

You've brought in every single game you possibly could to try and uncanonize it, but you can't.  You just can't.  Because it causes no conflict.  It seems like you're clinging to the wrong notion of it not being in continuity (in US continuity that is).