Topic: Super Smash Bros. Bitchslap: What Do You Want To See In It?

[Sakura Leic]

- Playable Ridley

You know that's not going to be possible.

[Jericho]

@HS.EXE: Keep in mind, I meant they needed more of that style in quantity. I loved the orchestral and rock tunes, but some of my favorites (Norfair, "Right There, Ride On!") opted for a different approach.

Also, Smash needs more Hideki Naganuma music.

And Sakura, it's pretty possible and a concept for it is kinda growing on me. I swear I over think these things too much.

[Police Girl]

@HS.EXE: Keep in mind, I meant they needed more of that style in quantity. I loved the orchestral and rock tunes, but some of my favorites (Norfair, "Right There, Ride On!") opted for a different approach.

Also, Smash needs more Hideki Naganuma music.

And Sakura, it's pretty possible and a concept for it is kinda growing on me. I swear I over think these things too much.

Get Equipped with Modchip, ISO and Stack Smash Texture Hack! (When It comes out at least.)

[Nexus]

Get Equipped with Modchip, ISO and Stack Smash Texture Hack! (When It comes out at least.)

If I recall correctly, Nintendo shut down the whole thing with a C&D, didn't they?

[Pringer X]

Weaken Meta Knight so people can stop bitching about him every god-damn-time they play the game.
Fix Pikachu, he was royalled [tornado fang]'d in Brawl (I hearted the electric rodent of death back in Melee and 64, but Brawl went and fixed something that wasn't broken).
Add more flying characters, having only 3 that can glide is crap. Give someone hover jets or an item that lets you do something like that.
NO MORE [tornado fang]ing BOMBS IN SUDDEN DEATH.
Whoever said more female characters is right. Nintendo needs to start making more original series, and a female-non-eye candy lead female would be great.
More 3rd Party characters. Nintendo has the cash, and if they offered to have Capcom characters, then maybe the ol' company could show some more Nintendo love and put something of theirs on the Wii and/or DS (at least more since RE5 and Bionic Commando aren't on the Wii).
Better stages, more old-but-gold stages (seriously, Mushroom Kingdom from SSB64? That was just awesome), and alter moves NOT for the sake of just using ideas from an older and crappier Mario game (who liked the squirt gun taking over the Mario Tornado?)
Change up the Final Smashes a lot. Having to pummel an item is an unfair advantage, why not just rip Street Fighter and have a meter that builds up? That way, everyone has a chance to use their Final Smash, and have the Smash Ball just charge the gauge up 30-50%.
Stop adding in crap characters just because. Olimar and Diddy Kong are somewhat decent, but over all, Diddy Kong's specials suck (face [twin slasher]? charging back pack? flinging a banana? Why couldn't they power up his cartwheel to special attack status? It's his signature move!)
Ditch the ^B whip thing, it's annoying trying to grab onto the edge with the thing if that's you're ONLY way to get back on the stage. Something like Link's or Shiek's chain thingy that clings to the wall is one thing, forcing a pin-point grab is insane.
Speed the character's up, Link and Samus were bolting across the stages in Melee, now they're like walking through sand the whole time.
If they have a create a character thing, why not make it like the Create-A-Stage method like in Mega Man Powered Up? Like you have to find little power ups and upgrades that relate to a certain character, but can only be obtained by the character them self in some way? (example: one requirement to get Link's Boomerang would be to play as Link a total of 5 times, the Bow a total of 10 times, and then gradually get higher until all of the special's and the final smash are gotten, then have it like clear X mission or game play in X amount of time/tries/whatever, and use a method like that to build up the regular attacks).
Make it easier to grab CDs and Trophies in battle, a couple of my friends STILL don't have all the music and they've been playing it for quite some time.

[HyperSonicEXE]

I'm still trekking after 5 stickers. UGH!

Agree on the bombs and sudden death.

Pikachu...I don't know. His Down+A Smash should have a little less priority, but other than that, he's about right. Maybe put Thunder a set distance above him? I dunno.

She's not the lead, but Rosalina is hardly eye candy (well, to me she is) and would do well. Midna's Twili form? Now THAT was eye candy, and it was so sweet, it tasted bad.

Tether Recovery was ridiculous; that should go. But then so was the Kirby characters' flight, Pit and Metaknight's gliding and Peach's floating. And Marth's Up+B priority.

Final Smash could be changed. I'd like to see it something akin to Dissidia's Break system where the character that's doing better gets to lay the smack down.

Create-a-character? Well, maybe if the next console has Miis, that would be alright. In the meantime, there's too many gaming icons to be pitting LOL ORIGENUHL CHARACTERZ against.

[Jericho]

I'm still trekking after 5 stickers. UGH!

Agree on the bombs and sudden death.

Pikachu...I don't know. His Down+A Smash should have a little less priority, but other than that, he's about right. Maybe put Thunder a set distance above him? I dunno.

She's not the lead, but Rosalina is hardly eye candy (well, to me she is) and would do well. Midna's Twili form? Now THAT was eye candy, and it was so sweet, it tasted bad.

Tether Recovery was ridiculous; that should go. But then so was the Kirby characters' flight, Pit and Metaknight's gliding and Peach's floating. And Marth's Up+B priority.

Final Smash could be changed. I'd like to see it something akin to Dissidia's Break system where the character that's doing better gets to lay the smack down.

Create-a-character? Well, maybe if the next console has Miis, that would be alright. In the meantime, there's too many gaming icons to be pitting LOL ORIGENUHL CHARACTERZ against.

Oh my God, the brokenness that would ensue if someone was having an off day. Punishing the other guy for not being up to par with the guy eating his lunch would be cruel. I'd much rather prefer the idea Ballade suggested where it's a steady buildup based on how well you play. Maybe making the crowd cheer more often could emphasize that mechanic a la Paper Mario 2 (minus them throwing things at you or being visible mind you ).

Also tethers are awesome, take that back.

Agreed on everything else though.

[HyperSonicEXE]

Oh my God, the brokenness that would ensue if someone was having an off day. Punishing the other guy for not being up to par with the guy eating his lunch would be cruel. I'd much rather prefer the idea Ballade suggested where it's a steady buildup based on how well you play. Maybe making the crowd cheer more often could emphasize that mechanic a la Paper Mario 2 (minus them throwing things at you or being visible mind you ).

Also tethers are awesome, take that back.

Agreed on everything else though.

Well it wouldn't be that giving of Final Smashes. It'd probably take 3 or 4 K.O.s to build up your gauge, and there'd probably be some other way for the other player to get back on track.

Tethers are awesome...for those that have them! I dunno, it just feels like an automatic Up+B recovery, no skill involved. I suppose it's an advantage of the character, like ZSS or Ivysaur. I guess it could stay, if the range is nerfed ever-so-slightly.

[Jericho]

OK, since we've pretty much touched on everything else already and people love playing the character speculation game, I'll start off the educated guessing on SSB4's roster. To make things interesting though, we'll be doing these one series at a time until we've tapped out the ideas among ourselves for said series. Only after that will you all get to make your own movesets and so forth. (Remember guys, this is purely for entertainment purposes, not what should be expected [although highly desired] in the next game. So no "serius buizness".) As the title of my post dictates, we're going to start with the Mushroom Kingdom's finest.

Super Mario Bros. (5 – 6 Characters)

- Mario (Has a Dr. Mario & Shadow Mario alt that doesn’t change gameplay style; has a Paper Mario alt that modifies his moveset somewhat.)
- Luigi (Has a Mr. L & Paper Luigi alt that might change his gameplay a bit)
- Peach (Has a Paper Peach alt that doesn’t modify her moveset much)
- Bowser (Has a Dry Bowser alt, no changes to gameplay)
- Daisy* (Has a Super Mario Strikers & Mario Strikers Charged alt just for recognition’s sake, and yes there’s a difference between the two.)
- Rosalina*

Reasoning

As the franchise that defines and is almost synonymous with Nintendo, not to mention its biggest, it's not beyond reason for this group to have a larger than standard selection of characters to choose from. Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are definite no matter which way you look at it all, so let's move on to the two newcomers I chose, namely Daisy & Rosalina. 

Why Daisy wasn’t in Brawl even is a mystery to me considering that not only is she a memorable character from within the universe itself, she is also deeply rooted in Nintendo history due to being created by the late Gunpei Yokoi, the man Miyamoto himself considers his most important and only mentor. With that history lesson aside, let’s move on to why she should be in gameplay wise. She offers something of a counter to Peach's character and gameplay. Where Peach is meant to be played strategically and evasively, Daisy has shown herself to be more of a contender, not shy to jump in and hold her own in the fray. This reasoning is of course due to their characters from the games they appear in. There's also the idea that she could always represent the Mario Sports titles (due to her continued appearance in said games), whose presence has been sorely lacking, with her potential moveset.

Rosalina however is interesting to say the least. Debuting in one of the best and most memorable Mario games and games of this generation (Super Mario Galaxy) and actually gathering a good bit of fame from that and her Mario Kart Wii exposure, she seems poised to become another big mainstay in the series. Enough about the Mario series talk though; you all just want to know how she fits into the Smash fray. The answer is: she's a spell caster, something Smash hasn't truly explored or fully realized in all three of its games, unless Zelda is meant to cover that whole area by herself. Also, since I sense the whole "she doesn't have moves/exhibit moves that could work in Smash" arguement coming, just remember that anyone can get something unique and varied that would work in Smash Bros, especially if characters like R.O.B. & Mr. Game & Watch did.

The last note for this group is the fact that you all probably noticed an asterisk next to both Daisy & Rosalina's name. This is used by myself as a sort of check to say that if the majority feels like 6 isn’t a number that could work (even thought this is a highly special situation), then it's literally a fight between the two to see who should earn that extra spot rightfully. Get used to it though, there are plenty of series that will have two or more of these character clashes. Fire Emblem, I’m especially looking at you.

Keep in mind though, none of these suggestions are simply fanservice. They are picked because the lend themselves to Nintendo's history well and would also be unique within the Smash game itself. Also, the notes in brackets are just there to show ideas of what could happen should the alt vs. playable debate ever come to a reasonable end. If anyone else has any good ideas to throw in on the side, put them in brackets next to what you're addressing for future reference. My final note is simply a question, do you all like the idea of this thread so far? Boredom and a manic appreciation for a game series can kinda make one do silly things, but I hope the community is enjoying my antics.

[Nexus]

.. What about a character select screen where you can choose from each of the "Nintendo universes," which then allows you to pick the available characters from that 'universe' via a drop-down menu or something. Ya know, to save room on the menu while allowing for a large amount of characters at the same time?

[Jericho]

I was thinking more along the lines of an expansion on how Wario was done, namely you would pick the character from the selection screen then pick the appearance you wanted from a little mini menu after that. In the special cases (my Paper Mario example) this would essentially be like picking a totally different character while conserving the actual roster space.

[Alice in Entropy]

Actually, while we're on the subject of Mario series characters, there is one character in particular that I would realy enjoy seeing:

Waluigi. That's right, the beanpole-bodied, eggplant-munching, bird-nosed anti-Luigi!

Think about it. Although Wario is similar to Mario in looks and was originally intended to be his "evil counterpart", he has recently spun off into his own "mini-franchise" (like DK and Yoshi), even earning himself a totally different moveset from Mario's. Waluigi, if anything, would only prove to be even more chaotic and OTT than his portly partner-in-crime. If you'll notice, none of the games seem to be consistent with his special abilities: different spin-offs mean different moves, ranging from flooding the area to creating walls of thorny vines. The only recurring element is the fact that Waluigi is a trickster. Scratch that, he's the trickster of the Mario universe. He relies on villainy, cunning, conniving schemes, various gadgets and, of course, good old fashioned cheating. I think you can see where I'm going with this. Waluigi would be an interesting character because, let's face it, the developers would be almost totally free to come up with whatever crazy moves they wanted. Maybe chuck in some explosives and a wrecking mallet, just as a throwback to his apparent love of demolition (I'm kind of speculating on this one, but I think he's connected to Wrecking Crew in modern games, plus he just strikes me as the demolition kind). He could be similar to both of his moulds, Luigi and Wario, by being a character that's kind of hard to get used to, but once you get good at using them, they can become a formidable opponent. His strategy would most likely involve using trickery and traps to gain the upper hand, then batter the opponent off the stage when they've been suitably softened up. In fitting with his typical appearances, he'd essentially be a bizzare pastiche of various existing characters.

[Jericho]

Don't put Waluigi under Mario Enigma! I have a plan for him and I wouldn't want you riling up everyone with the thought of a playable Waluigi right now.

[Alice in Entropy]

*Gasp* I don't know what this plan is. But already, I smell genius! =D

[Jazz Shaking]

Nobody wants Bowser Jr.... 

I mean ever since Sunshine he plays as the second main villain of the series under Bowser. Sunshine was his big debut, then in NSMB for the DS he reappears once more playing the role of villain, and in Galaxy he helps out his father. Plus add in all his appearances in the spin off games and you have a well known villain. His moveset be easy to work with considering they just have to give him his magic paintbrush which would open a lot of paint related atacks up. He can't breathe fire, nor body slam people, nor bite like his father can so he be much less of a clone if anyone think he would be. He play fast, and dirty with his paint skill.

Yes he's arguably the reason why the Koopalings have not shown up in a main Mario platformer for years ever since he showed up, but he's still good in his own ways.

[Crimson Lightning]

one thing i don't get is how would you be able to play as Ridley? don't get me wrong he's kick-ass but i don't see him really fighting material if someone can explain how he could fight

the cust characters isn't a bad idea what they could is what they did in SC4 i think where you download costumes of different characters my friend did that SC4 i think and he got a Cloud and Ryu and Ken suits and he was how should put it delicately for him giddy

another thing extend the letter input im tired of abbreviating titles and forgetting what they were to begin with

[Jericho]

Feel free to comment on the previous one if you haven't done so already, I'm just leaving this one here and headed off to sleep. Maybe some of you might have something interesting to add that you haven't already. Anyway, here's round 2:

The Legend of Zelda (4-6 Characters)

- Link (Has a "Toon Mode" that modifies his style and appearance to Toon Link’s[?])
- Zelda/Sheik (Has a "Toon Mode" that modifies her style and appearance to Toon Zelda/Tetra [?])
- Ganondorf (Has a "Toon Mode" that modifies his style and appearance to Toon Ganondorf [?])
- Midna* (Humanoid)
- Vaati* (Humanoid)
- As of now unknown Zelda Wii important character*

Reasoning

The Legend of Zelda is yet another legendary franchise heralded by the combined force of Nintendo EAD and Shigeru Miyamoto. With its unique gameplay, memorable stories and immensely diverse character pool, it's a wonder to me how Smash has gotten away with a few things. For example (and the biggest one I have), Captain Ganondorf. That [parasitic bomb] has to stop in the next game. For someone who is supposed to be the wielder of the power of the gods and an immensely powerful warlock thief regardless of that, he sure doesn't have anything backing that rep in Smash. I will admit though, there are some moves that he possesses now that would make me sad to see them go (namely Thunderstomp [Down Air], Flame Choke [Side Special] and Warlock Punch) if they de-clone him how I have envisioned. What Ganondorf needs is a total redo that allows him to show off what he is best, a warlock. They need to balance his brutish physicality with his supposedly legendary magic ability. Again, since Smash has barely grazed the surface in regards to witches, warlocks, spellcasters and magic in general, they potential is there to make him something incredibly unique and I'm sure that it wouldn't take much to get something great from him.

Next up is the Link/Toon Link debate. Some say that Toon Link needs to go because it isn't a situation where Luigification is enough, especially since we already have Link. Others, me included, would find it blasphemous to remove a character so integral to the series (if you treat him as the rep for the "Young" Link and universes that a younger Link pertain to that is). So then what do we do to appease both sides of this debate? I have an idea, namely a selectable "Toon mode". This would work in the following way. A person who chooses Link would then be able to click on Link's spot on the roster (much like Zelda/Sheik in Brawl) and they would be able to play as the Toon version of this character. Now we have to address the next part of this scenario which is making the characters more diversified.

Why the Windwaker wasn't Toon Link’s Final Smash I'll never know. The Ballad of The Gales was one of the first ideas I came up with for him when I first heard he was going to be in the game. Imagine summoning a fully controllable cyclone for a few seconds and letting it wreak havoc all over the stage? The next best thing would be the Four Sword. Imagine four Toon Links standing up on top of one another and unleashing one powerful Hurricane Spin that you could tilt in one direction or the other? Outside of a final smash though, Toon Link as is was a pretty ok job, so I'll leave this at that and move on to the last issue of business, namely Vaati vs. Midna vs. potential newcomer from Zelda Wii.

Midna is in a very similar situation as Rosalina from the last roster battle I put up. She started in the biggest, most recent and most anticipated game in the series. She has also grown on many people for her own endeavors in Twilight Princess. Some people have even asked for her to return in a future installment of the series. This all has given her some decent backing in terms of popularity and getting into Smash as well. As for how she would blend into the game itself, remember my notes about spellcasters and Smash. She uses magic and abilities that are wildly unlike anything the Zelda regulars are accustomed to [spoiler=Twilight Princess spoilers]Why hello there Final Smash worthy giant ethereal Twili Orochi-arm spear wielding spider thing! [/spoiler] and as such she should never be subjected to a clone treatment should she get in.

Then there’s Vaati, a very interesting situation within the Zelda series. While Vaati has been the main and secondary antagonist in a few of the Zelda titles, there are more extenuating circumstances regarding his use in a game like Smash. He was jointly created by both Nintendo and Capcom (more specifically, Flagship) in the few Capcom co-developed Zelda games, namely The Minish Cap and Four Swords Adventure. Honestly, I believe that he should have the same rights to a Zelda spot as any other important Zelda character, mainly because not only is he important in the games he’s in, he is also one of the only important Zelda characters to have ever been created not entirely by Nintendo, thus giving him his own unique albeit somewhat convoluted title and history. As for movesets and possibilities, I get tired of repeating myself, silly.

The only thing left to find out is whether or not the next Zelda game has a main character that isn’t Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf but has merits that make them worthy of a Smash membership. Also, do you all think that LoZ is a big enough franchise to warrant a big roster a la my Mario idea?

Now with all that said and done, all I have left to ask is what do you think of the whole Toon mode thing? Is it plausible or not? The question mark next to them denotes that it might not be workable, but it’s still an idea to think about. With that, I’m done for tonight!

[Strider Xhaiden]

Y'know, I had a thought for the looks of SSB4 (and possibly SSB DS, if Nintendo ever realise how lucrative such a venture would be)


2-D Sprites/backgrounds, of the same quality/surpassing those of Guilty Gear. Then we can have a large roster and everything else, because character models aren't as data consuming.

[Jericho]

2D sprites on DS sure, that'd be nice. Consoles demand nice 2.5D though.

[Strider Xhaiden]

Yeah, sure. Similar quality to the ones in your sig, perhaps?

[Alice in Entropy]

I don't see why the "toon" approach wouldn't work. It sounds like it could be feasibly worked in, alright. I'd love to play as Toon Ganondorf. X3

[Satoryu]

the idea of customizable characters would blow up in your face. it would be disgustingly unfair.

i forgot to mention to bring back Break The Targets for each individual character. the same would go for Board The Platforms. and someone suggested to me they do the same for Race to the Finish.

i wouldn't put in Rosalina or Midna. with potential new Mario and Zelda games coming out, their notability will be in the tank. come to think of it, i should tweak my Link moveset to eliminate the TP-specific stuff.

and Waluigi is a terrible idea for playable character. that's putting in a Mario character for the sake of. he's already an awesome Assist, anyway.

another idea mentioned to me. if space is that constrained by all the material, why not put the story mode on its own disc?

finally, while on the subject of story mode, it needs more boss fights. perhaps a boss from each game series. i know someone wants to see Ridley fight Mother Brain.

[Alice in Entropy]

and Waluigi is a terrible idea for playable character. that's putting in a Mario character for the sake of.

I, er, honestly don't see how... o_o; But, eh, each to their own...

[Satoryu]

if he shows up in a Mario game that's not a spin off, things will be forgiven. but as of now, Waluigi's only purpose is hand always has been to take up a character slot.

[Jericho]

i wouldn't put in Rosalina or Midna. with potential new Mario and Zelda games coming out, their notability will be in the tank. come to think of it, i should tweak my Link moveset to eliminate the TP-specific stuff.

Hearing some other opinions on Midna, I can agree to this, especially with Zelda Wii on the way. Rosalina however is a totally different story, especially since it's strongly hinted that the next Mario game will be a direct sequel to Super Mario Galaxy.

Also, I had no idea that the internet would prefer Bowser Jr. over Daisy. Different strokes, I guess.