Topic: Pokemon Generation VII: Sun/Moon/Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon *Leaks/Spoilers ahead!*

[ViperAcidZX]

Anyone else besides me getting a bit of Jibanyan (who's also a Fire type yokai in Yo-kai Watch oddly enough) vibes from the Fire starter, at least in the way it's face is designed?

[spoiler=For reference][/spoiler]

[Sakura Leic]

Nah the fake Fire Starter doesn't seem Jibayanish to me, it needs more tails. 

[Psycho Yuffie]

Holy [parasitic bomb]! New thread! I declare this generation officially open! *shoots Dr. Wily II in the head with a nerf missile*

Also, one thing about the fake leaks that I liked is the older protagonists. This was discussed in the old thread, but I think it would be interesting to have older protagonists and have a deeper character-driven story this time around. We don't necessarily have to save the world every single game. I mean, we didn't in RBY or in GSC. Yeah, we stopped Team Rocket, but that hardly compares to stopping the oceans and all life being roasted in the sun (Omega Ruby).

Changing the motivations of the protagonists doesn't necessarily mean that he formula has to radically change, either. Instead of being some kid who just falls into being a trainer just because. Maybe this time you choose the starter from the introduction scene and it's a Pokemon you've had since you were a kid, but you never trained it. But then something happens and you're forced into battling with it and that's how you decide to be a trainer.

I still really like the idea of starting a Pokemon game as an ex-PokeMart or Pokemon Center employee who gets fired for some reason. You become a trainer not because of some idealistic attitude, but because you have no other choice. You could play as a cynical person for the first time who learns to love and cherish his/her Pokemon through experience, as opposed to always fighting against cynical people as a bright-eyed goody-goody.

None of these ideas have much potential toward kids, though. I mean, something can be said about teaching kids that even cynical people can change. They're not always horrible people, which seems to be the message in nearly every Pokemon game--except WB/W2B2.

[Sakura Leic]

Yeah I certainly would like idea very much, but unfortunately since the player is supposed to represent you more or less it most likely won't happen in a main series game.

However that being said that idea is why I can appreciate the Colosseum games a lot since it does use that idea, especially the first game since Wes is an ex Snagem member.  Micheal while not as interesting is also pretty cool, he has personal reasons for doing what he does because not only is it the right thing to do to defeat Cipher and save the Shadow Pokemon, but because he wants to make sure his Mom's project and Dad's dying wish is fulfilled.

It's just too bad it was in a game that is kind of not very popular due to the Double Battle mechanics and limits on Pokemon to use, but darn if they aren't interesting.

[Strider Xhaiden]

Nevermind all that, I want the option to join the inevitable shadowy, nefarious organization that will hound you throughout the game.

Just because they're bad guys doesn't mean they're bad guys.

[Sakura Leic]

I'm sure Plasma in BW would have been the only option to do so since the others are too obviously evil or destructive, however they decided to establish that Plasma were hypocritical dicks very early on so that idea would be out the window.  Again Wes is probably the closest we'll get to a morally ambiguous protag, we seriously have no idea what the hell his motivations were in Colosseum.

[Sakura Leic]

Next month's Corocoro will bring info for Sun and Moon.

[Hypershell]

I just want to know how the VC transfers work...  I mean, the fact that that's possible is ALL we know about Sun/Moon until we get the real scans, so yeah.

I'm sure Plasma in BW would have been the only option to do so since the others are too obviously evil or destructive, however they decided to establish that Plasma were hypocritical dicks very early on so that idea would be out the window.  Again Wes is probably the closest we'll get to a morally ambiguous protag, we seriously have no idea what the hell his motivations were in Colosseum.

The basic plot/mechanics of Colosseum would imply that he did not approve of the alliance with Cipher.  What I'd like to know is how/why Wes got into Snagem in the first place.

Yeah, I loved Colosseum, not only for Wes being my favorite protagonist, but for Shadow Pokemon being the only proper expression of any need/benefit to RAISE Pokemon in gameplay, instead of just letting them rot in a PC.  Also great Ruby/Sapphire remixes in the battle mode.

[Sakura Leic]

Yeah it's so weird, especially when you keep in mind that Wes' starters, Espeon and Umbreon, evolve with Friendship.  So it's odd that he was involve with Snagem, who at least have Team Rocket levels of morality and have no problem with Shadow Pokemon existing.

[Strider Xhaiden]

So it's odd that he was involve with Snagem, who at least have Team Rocket levels of morality and have no problem with Shadow Pokemon existing.

On a general scale. It's not impossible that some of its' members would be capable of forming genuine bonds with their Pokemon, even with the dubious nature of the organization as a whole.

[Sakura Leic]

The thing is though when you look at other Team Leaders, Maxie/Archie, Cyrus, and Lysandre they all have Crobats to show they aren't necessarily bad people but rather extremists, which is jarring especially considering Cyrus and Lysandre's plans.  In fact part of Silver's character growth is enhanced by the fact that he too has a Crobat when he started to care about his Pokemon.

Ghetis, Giovanni and the Team Leaders in Snagem and Cipher don't have such Pokemon which shows that they are assholes, Ghetsis especially.  Giovanni might an exception since at the end he did redeem himself and has a sense of honor, but it doesn't change the fact that by large Team Rocket considers Pokemon to be tools, not friends.  In fact this is best shown in the anime, as much as I hate to say that.  Besides Jessie, James and Meowth everyone in Team Rocket are dicks to their Pokemon, Butch and Cassidy actually used a machine to make their Pokemon stronger by forcing them to get Angry.

There may be exceptions to the rule, such as half of Plasma, the Team Rocket Trio, game Giovanni at the end, and Wes but by large I don't think Snagem as a whole can be considered questinably good if they are okay with Shadow Pokemon.

[Strider Xhaiden]

Yeah, I understand that Cypher and Snagem on the whole are evil beyond a doubt. I just wanted to point out that Wes might be, as you mentioned, an exception. 

[Sakura Leic]

It still begs the question of why Wes was in Snagem in the first place though.  I mean Wes seems to smart too be fooled by some Snagem recruitment offer, especially since the first thing we see is him stealing the Snag machine and blowing up the place which reveals to the world where Snagem is so he can throw them off his tail for a while. 

I'm actually wondering if Wes was secretly some government agent who infiltrated Snagem but then took extreme messures once he realized their alliance with Cipher and the existence Shadow Pokemon.  I mean that does ruin Wes' moral ambiguity but it does sound plausible.

[Strider Xhaiden]

That definitely sounds interesting.

Maybe he's....I 'unno, a bad guy with a heart or something? He's fine bonding with Pokemon (his Eeveelutions are proof of that), but had a change of loyalties once he found out about the Shadow Pokemon? Hell, maybe he figured he was doing people a favour by taking their Shadow Pokes away from them.

[spoiler]Or maybe we're all reading way too deep into what is ostensibly a kids' series. 

I'm picturing the meeting where the plot was discussed, and the lead supervisor just sort of shrugs and says "Whatever you think'd be cool. Not like this series makes much sense anyway."[/spoiler]

[Sakura Leic]

I mean yeah we are thinking too into this, but it's just Orre in general is so freaking dark compared to everything else, even Black and White.  It's a desert wasteland that is only barely starting to recover in Gale of Darkness where not even Wild Pokemon dare set foot in and nearly everyone in the orginal Colosseum, besides most of Phenac and all of Agate village, are shady as hell.  It's really jarring.

[Strider Xhaiden]

Alternate universe of Red & Blue, perhaps? I remember Lt. Surge and some other NPCs making reference to a war....

[Sakura Leic]

No it's not an alternate universe as far as I'm concerned, Orre is just very far away compare to everthing else. 

The War Lt. Surge was talking about would not cause ecological devastation on the scale of Orre unless nukes were involved, granted he didn't say the war was in Kanto but I doubt it was Orre.  Hell even with the war in Kalos 3,000 years later Kalos is still freaking beautiful so whatever happened in Orre must have been something different or recent. And even then Orre is recovering by the time Gale of Darkness comes around, so it definitely wasn't a nuke.

[Hypershell]

The fact that there are Pokemon elsewhere who thrive in desert environments does make you wonder what the heck happened to Orre.  Literally the only Pokemon in the region in Colosseum are its guardians: Celebi and Ho-oh.  And even in Gale of Darkness, you'll only ever see wild Pokemon by laying out bait.

Yeah it's so weird, especially when you keep in mind that Wes' starters, Espeon and Umbreon, evolve with Friendship.  So it's odd that he was involve with Snagem, who at least have Team Rocket levels of morality and have no problem with Shadow Pokemon existing.

Evil people can still make friends, it's just that if they have evil bravado, they're not allowed to call it that.

Also if you want to nit-pick, you could argue that Pokemon evolve through "happiness" and not friendship, meaning you can basically force them to evolve by feeding them a bunch of junk food.

It still begs the question of why Wes was in Snagem in the first place though.  I mean Wes seems to smart too be fooled by some Snagem recruitment offer, especially since the first thing we see is him stealing the Snag machine and blowing up the place which reveals to the world where Snagem is so he can throw them off his tail for a while. 

I'm actually wondering if Wes was secretly some government agent who infiltrated Snagem but then took extreme messures once he realized their alliance with Cipher and the existence Shadow Pokemon.  I mean that does ruin Wes' moral ambiguity but it does sound plausible.

I get the impression Wes was with Snagem for some time, though.  IIRC, the early grunts who were trying to kidnap Rui recognized him and implied that he was among their best.

We can only speculate, but I'm guessing the "honorable theif" angle goes back further than the Shadow Pokemon incident.  It actually could tie into Wes having happiness/friendship-starters if he made it a point to steal from trainers that he saw as less than honorable (Orre has no shortage of people who barely notice when their Pokemon are stolen, sad to say).  How he got started, who knows?  Maybe he had a prior history with Gonzap.

Also on the topic of his starters, Wes does seem to enjoy their company.  Before Rui joins him, he leaves them out of their Pokeballs during bike trips.  I don't think there's a single other player character in the series who had more than one Pokemon out for leisure at the same time.

[Sakura Leic]

There's going to be some Sun and Moon footage on April 3rd during a Japanese Variety Show with Junichi Masuda, Shiheki Morimoto, and Shigeru Ohmori.

[Psycho Yuffie]

I'm anxious. It's weird we haven't seen anything already, considering it's supposed to come out in December. Usually there's at least some screenshots by now--if not a a trailer with gameplay.

[Sakura Leic]

It's actually not really that weird to be honest, every game reveal is different, they don't exactly follow a strict formula for reveals.  I mean realistcally the game is probably already done and is in the extensive bug testing phase at this point, they just decided to show other Pokemon related things like Pokken Tournament and Pokemon Go, especially since Pokken Tournament was so close to be being released at the time, not to mention the Volcanion Movie coming in July with how much info they're putting into that. 

So when you put it that way you can understand why they down played Pokemon Sun and Moon at the time so they can focus on every thing else.  I mean yeah they could have revealed more, again the title reveal was still pretty lukewarm but I'm sure they'll go into detail about a lot of things next Sunday, especially since one of those dudes is the battle director.  Besides it gives people a reason to speculate and make ridiculous creative fake leaks, at least people are still talking about it.

[Psycho Yuffie]

They're probably confident it's already going to sell. It's a mainline Pokemon game. I bet they wouldn't even need to advertise a main Pokemon game for it to sell like crazy. It would just pop up on the eShop and the servers would instantly crash from everyone trying to download it at once.

That being said, I gotta be honest about something: this is the most excited I've been for a Pokemon game since Gold and Silver. No idea why, but I'm so hyped. I've seen nothing except concept art and the Pokemon Direct video. That's it. I hunger for more information that'll do nothing but drive me insane with more hype until the game comes out because I'm a masochist--it's true.

[Sakura Leic]

They're probably confident it's already going to sell. It's a mainline Pokemon game. I bet they wouldn't even need to advertise a main Pokemon game for it to sell like crazy. It would just pop up on the eShop and the servers would instantly crash from everyone trying to download it at once.

Nah that would never happen, you do need at the very least some minimal advertisement in this day and age even if it was digital only.  The Internet and word of mouth is still the most powerful tools for generating a consumer base in gaming, with TV being somewhat viable since Pokemon is easier to market than anything else.  I mean it wouldn't be as bad as the Sega Saturn's 'brilliant' reveal, but it would be the lowest selling Main series Pokemon game ever sold, and it would be bad for rep to do that, especially if it was indeed digital only with quite a significant percentage of gamers so resistant on purchasing full digital games in the first place.

Sorry I'm taking this seriously but I'm an HR major who also had to take some basic marketing classes.  Very basic marketing mind you, but sufficient enough.

[Amatiramisu]

Uh have you guys seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlgczxOr1Ow

[Sakura Leic]

I recognize the YouTube user, he mostly does videogame walk throughs.  However I'll wait until Serebii reports it, streaming the TV show is kind of illegal.  I think it's supposed to be on now and will last half an hour, however don't expect too much news or footage just in case.