Ridley

Soultrigger · 3560

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Offline Soultrigger

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on: April 14, 2014, 11:37:13 PM
A space dragon so big controversial, he deserves his own topic.

I am NOT getting into Other M plot stuff. And I suggest everyone else drop it. We all know neither side will budge, and the argument itself has already been beaten into the dust since the game came out 3 and a half years ago. If you really want to do this back and forth again, at least don't do it here. Keep it to Smash related stuff, of which "the Ridley Scene" is not.

Are you saying only the games can be legit sources of information? Do the officially licensed manga and Nintendo Power comic just not count? Even when events that took place in those are called back to within the games and other related media?

And I'm not just talking about the ending pictures in Fusion. Old Bird is one of the Chozo that raised Samus. He debuted in the Nintendo Power Comic. He was a major character in the official manga, panels of which were repurposed for those extra ending pictures in the Japanese release of Fusion. And, and this is the important one if my questions before yield yesses, you see Old Bird in a flashback in Zero Mission. Samus' backstory with Ridley on K-2L also was first shown in the Nintendo Power comic. And it has been referred to in other games as well, such as Smash Bros. trophies and the manual for Metroid Prime.

But more importantly than all that. You are saying that a big pterodactyl-like creature and a bunch of marauding aliens under his command decimating a space colony and orphaning a very young Samus is in no way a heavy contribution to the Metroid mythos. That sounds like some pretty heavy [parasitic bomb] to me, man. Doesn't seem like the kinda thing you can just shrug off. If that event never happened, none of the games would have taken place. We have Ridley to thank that we can play these games ironically enough.

I don't know how else to show Ridley's significance and therefore eligibility to be a playable character in Smash Bros. I've accepted the fact that he's not gonna be playable in this one cause there's too much evidence against it. But the point of all this is to show that his inclusion is possible, appropriate, and relevant. Ignoring all this evidence is just ignorant, man.
First and foremost, the current discussion is how important Ridley's contribution to the series is, specifically as the murderer of Samus's parents. I am not denying such events exist within the mythos. Now while this may sound entirely subjective, you can argue for or against this importance depending on your line of reasoning.

I'll reiterate my stance: Ridley killing Samus's parents is not made important relative to everything else within the games. The main reason for this is because the K-2L backstory isn't a main focus or major plot element for many of the games, so the developers chose not to emphasize it in light of other priorities (which is typically the already minimalist plot). Said event is only emphasized within the manga and Other M.

To say that Ridley's murder is important is to say the manga and Other M is important relative to the other games. Ignoring Other M for now, I'm going to point out that knowing such a fact pre-Other M was in fact very obscure Metroid trivia that many players would not have known without outside research or coincidental reading via Smash trophies or forums. It doesn't make sense that most people wouldn't be aware of such an "important fact" after playing the games. It's not people being ignorant, it's you and the writer(s) being unreasonable expecting people to know. If you asked 10 people what Metroid is, 10 out of 10 people will tell you it's a game series, NOT a manga.

Such event could be explained through instruction manuals, as is the case with many older games. However, every pre-Other M Metroid given the bare backgrounds of the plot function perfectly fine without knowing said fact. Again, the boss fights with Ridley are never portrayed explicitly or implicitly as one of personal vengeance, therefore saying that they are is forcing an interpretation that can't conclusively be supported without outside material.

Which brings me to my next point: Other M, despite emphasizing such a fact occurred, never even bothered to tell the players such an event happened, in spite of all its other flashbacks. On top of that, such a plot element is completely useless within the context of Other M's story: Samus doesn't get vengeance for supposedly-dead Anthony and is denied proper closure.  Plain and simple, that's bad storytelling. Going by Occam's razor, it's obvious the writer(s) shoehorned the breakdown flashback in an attempt to reveal Samus's backstory, add drama, bridge Super and Fusion, and give fanservice (ie Ridley), but ultimately this results in not only character regression (Samus revisiting a problem she already resolved, even IN the manga) but character assassination (her once boundless courage is now revoked, destroying her larger-than-life superhero status).

But let's say you accept Other M's "story" at face value: that still doesn't change the fact that Ridley killing Samus's parents was never emphasized until now outside the manga, which again should be seen as complimenting the games rather than an essential read.

Lastly, saying Ridley is the cause of everything Samus because "backstory" is like contributing a significant portion of Apple's success to Steve Job's biological father.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 12:00:12 PM by Soultrigger »



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Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 02:40:44 AM
Who cares



Offline Hiryu

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Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 05:07:34 AM
If you didn't then why did you bother posting in this thread? Just because we're a Rockman site doesn't mean people only care about Rockman.



Offline Sakura Leic

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Reply #3 on: April 15, 2014, 05:12:37 AM
If you didn't then why did you bother posting in this thread? Just because we're a Rockman site doesn't mean people only care about Rockman.
He doesn't care about Rockman either.

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Offline Hypershell

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Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 03:17:39 PM
I'm not going to go for the usual multi-quote dissection, Soul, because I consider your entire premise to be flawed.  Your post is based on the idea that obscure = insignificant.  It doesn't.  Just because something is unseen does not mean that it is unimportant.  You acknowledge all events as fact but presume them to be insignificant simply because they are not presented plainly on-screen, that's like saying Dr. Wily has no significance to the Mega Man X series.

It *IS* a flaw of Metroid Other M that it did not re-emphasize the point when basing a significant scene on it, though.  Something as simple as a full scene flashback instead of just an image of Samus reverting to a child would have gone a long way (which, oddly, the game's commercial did a better job of).  However, that is a flaw in presentation, not a flaw in premise.  What they were trying to do with that battle was perfectly valid, and Ridley's significance very real and inarguable once all facts are known; the problem is that the game did not present the relevant facts properly.

Because the premise itself was not flawed, Other M's Ridley battle cannot be used as argument against Ridley's appearance in a future title in which the "presentation" aspect is taken entirely from scratch.  Least of all Smash Bros., a world where toys fight each other, and all the story it needs is given in the form of trophy descriptions, which is the very same format in which Sakurai ALREADY acknowledged Ridley's significance directly.  You can't ask for more than that.

Lastly, saying Ridley is the cause of everything Samus because "backstory" is like contributing a significant portion of Apple's success to Steve Job's biological father.

Causality and credit are not the same thing.  Nobody was talking about Samus's accomplishments, they were talking about the general course of her life, which is impossible to separate from her past experiences and the circumstances of her childhood.

This falls back on whether or not one chooses to simply view Samus as an avatar of the player.  Is Samus's character significant, or is she merely a graphic, a combination of her appearance and her player-controlled actions?  If she is significant as a character, then Ridley was among the most significant impacts on that character.  If she is merely an avatar, then her own significance is only that of her repeated appearances, and Ridley therefore needs no further justification as a villain than his own repeat appearances.

My personal opinions aside, one can argue that either way.  And either way, Ridley's a big deal.  You can only dismiss him by double standard.



And, just as an aside, what is the single most recognizable musical theme in the Metroid series? :V

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Offline Zan

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Reply #5 on: April 18, 2014, 04:43:53 PM
Quote
Which brings me to my next point: Other M, despite emphasizing such a fact occurred, never even bothered to tell the players such an event happened, in spite of all its other flashbacks.

I find it incredibly ironic how people criticize Other M for its copious monologues only to shut down their brains during actual efforts at subtle presentation.

Quote
character regression (Samus revisiting a problem she already resolved, even IN the manga)

PTSD, of its very nature, does not surface lest one lowers their defenses.

Samus believed Ridley to have died for good with the destruction of the Zebesian Space Pirates. She had, at long last, closed off that chapter of her life. This, Adam and the infant Metroid, left Samus unprepared for Ridley's sudden return.

Quote
assassination (her once boundless courage is now revoked, destroying her larger-than-life superhero status).

Courage is not absence of fear, it is triumph over fear. Her past victories against Ridley are empowered by this knowledge.

Quote
eligibility to be a playable character in Smash Bros

Do want playable Mother Brain.



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #6 on: April 19, 2014, 04:45:35 AM


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Reply #7 on: April 19, 2014, 05:41:01 AM
Wow image thief



Offline Rin

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Reply #8 on: April 19, 2014, 12:03:08 PM
Mayhaps you should have reuploaded that image, hombre?



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #9 on: April 19, 2014, 04:20:25 PM
If you copy pasted the URL you'd be fine.

Either way, I just uploaded it using the forum instead.


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Offline Rin

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Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 09:18:21 AM
Either way, I just uploaded it using the forum instead.
Who [tornado fang]ing does that?
Oh yeah, you I suppose.



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 07:00:43 PM
Yeah. I'm the odd ball.


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Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 07:11:59 PM
I forgot that feature even existed.



Offline Sakura Leic

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Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 07:36:14 PM
Which is actually a good thing sometimes since if you look at a lot of super old topics you can't see picture uploaded on photobucket or the like, but those photos uploaded on the forum are still there.

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Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 07:39:06 PM
But who looks at 'super old topics'? I sure don't.



Offline Sakura Leic

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Reply #15 on: April 20, 2014, 07:43:32 PM
At random when I'm bored sometimes, quite a few users do it too.

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Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #16 on: April 21, 2014, 05:34:37 AM
At random when I'm bored sometimes, quite a few users do it too.

You go back and read my GoRPMs, don't you?  8D



Offline Sakura Leic

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Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 05:35:54 AM
You go back and read my GoRPMs, don't you?  8D
Yes I do, especially if I have an idea an need to check back for a reference.

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