Topic: Dtoid: "Rockman is not Going Over; How to Fix Capcom"

[Police Girl]

What about Sonic Mega Mix, or S2 HD?

Megamix has been on hiatus forever now.

S2HD on the other hand, that got cancelled.

[Flame]

Mega Mix is still ongoing? I thought they finished that already. Seems more like they just upgrade it whenever the [tornado fang] they feel it needs to be mixed some more.

It is a shame about S2HD. Looked good.

But my point was that at least those two projects were pretty hotly followed by the fanbase.

[Ladd Spencer]

Personally, I'm a fan of those hard as nails ROM hacks. Unfortunately they seem to mostly just be of Mega Man 2, at least the highest quality ones. Best thing about hacking a Wii IMO.

[Phi]

S2HD on the other hand, that got cancelled.

Oh, come on.

[Protoman Blues]

The thing I would fear most with a boycott, is simply, with the way Capcom has been going minimal risk, milk the cash cows, a boycott would simply register as "Mega Man is no longer profitable", and result in a more PERMANENT blow to the franchise. Abandonment by Capcom.

Well we're already teetering with that thought already.

Woops. Actually, I wasn't calling a boycott "backing down", but I should've been more clear. I was just responding to the defeated attitude of having no other recourse than an impossible carpet-bombing tactic like boycotting.

I don't know why you think a boycott is meant to be vicious. It's just another way of potentially getting them to listen or even talk when they've been ignoring us. You are right though, it is impossible.

Least they had fun in the meanwhile. Also, I have a hard time believing that the Sonic fanbase weren't in some way responsible for games like Sonic 4 and Generations. Those resulted from sheer demand.

The point isn't to magically reach some milestone that will guarantee Capcom makes a good Mega Man game for us. The point is repairing our reputation that was damaged in the wake of Legends 3, and to grow the fanbase and provide more venues for them to hang out and have a good time. It's to distract us a bit from the bitter state of the franchise, but it's also for more exposure. If we start big events ourselves, chances are Capcom will take notice and reach out to us.

Our reputation? Who gives a [parasitic bomb] about our "reputation?" Fellow nerds? Other fanbases? [tornado fang] them. It's not just the Mega Man fanbase that's pissed off with Capcom. Even the fighting scene is upset with the recent BS DLC tactics of MvC3 and Street Fighter X Tekken. This is not simply Sega pumping out bad games and then the fans complain. This is about some of the worst PR tactics I've even seen from the company. And they're still doing it. Do you really, really think us joining together for a franchise distraction is going to distract us from a [parasitic bomb] WAM-X game that the majority of fans cannot even play if they wanted? If anything, it shows that they're forgetting about the loyal fans and moving on to the Facebook/Phone/Tablet crowd.

Capcom doesn't give a [tornado fang] about our reputation either, especially since they're essentially the ones who gave the crazies their fuel. They'll do what they always do: what makes them the most money. They can [acid burst] on their fans all they want and they know if they do release something eventually, whether a standard nostalgia money maker in MM11 or an actual new game/series, we'll buy it. New fans are what they want, and it's going to take more than a new comic and us joining in unity to get some. It's going to take a new series from Capcom. It's all on them.
 

Boycotts can also be pretty divisive. Dangerously so. Imagine the kind of damage that would wreak on the Mega Man fanbase's reputation. I guarantee it'll be many times worse than Legends 3 and UMvC3.

So can getting together lots and lots of Mega Man fans with different ideas. The more you add to a group, the more crazies you add to a group. And again, [tornado fang] our reputation. It's irrelevant in regards to us getting a new game or not.

I was thinking more along the lines of starting conventions and competitive events, like Devroom-type contests, fan game/rom hack contests, speedruns, etc. Active social stuff. Stuff that gets us noticed and attracts attention, specifically of other gamers as well as Mega Man fans.

I'd say the Get Me Off The Moon group already handle that quite well, and their numbers are still growing I believe. That seems like the best place to get that kind of thing started. But for us to start our own conventions and competitive events? That takes both time and money, which I'd say 99% of us are unwilling and unable to contribute to. Especially towards something like a video game franchise. Other gamers already know about Mega Man and either they've moved on or, like many of us, are actually waiting for something new and innovative from the franchise.

Whatever they're planning, they're doing a shitty job of getting us even remotely hyped for anything.

That's an understatement.

[Mirby]

I'd say the Get Me Off The Moon group already handle that quite well, and their numbers are still growing I believe. That seems like the best place to get that kind of thing started.

Just to add on to this
108,160 likes · 2,936 talking about this

so yeah, still growing.

[Treleus]

I don't know why you think a boycott is meant to be vicious. It's just another way of potentially getting them to listen or even talk when they've been ignoring us. You are right though, it is impossible.

Relevant: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6187-Why-Boycotts-Fail-Where-Whining-Tantrums-Win

[Align]

I was about to post the same, that one sure popped up at an opportune time.
Extremely relevant, and slightly depressing...

[Treleus]

Look at it this way: he's basically vindicating whining as a legitimate form of democratic discourse. Meaning that even though whining looks terrible, it works. Sonic fans had the right idea, and they got Generations for all their trouble, even if it did unleash a bunch of crazies in the midst of it all.

@Proto: I get what you're saying, but I kinda care about promoting my fanbase as hip and cool rather than impotently whiny and overly self-entitled. I don't want to be represented by the worst we have to offer, but then that's not really up to me. Capcom might not care, but I do.

I guess you just have to take the good with the bad and make the best of it. That's kinda what I was going for with all this talk about activism. Things like cons, contests, and meetups are meant to be positive outlets for our feelings about the franchise and, by extension, Capcom. They're also meant to connect to the outside world a bit more, which is always nice. Especially if it means we can mend the frayed relations between our Street Fighter and Resident Evil peers, whether we share the same feelings about them and how Capcom's handling them or not.

Frankly, though, this is just me talking to read myself talk. RPM's got a lot of fangames being made and TMMN has always got people submitting artwork. MMX9's got that Sigma Body contest going on now, and we're all already well aware of what GMOTM is doing. Better that I start something myself and talk about it than talk about seeing other people do cool [parasitic bomb].

[The Great Gonzo]

I watched that video, and--Capcom actually listened to the fans about something? Wha?!

Oh, and Treleus: you realize that if our reputation does improve, the dickheads at PRC and TMMN who laugh at the other commenters and brag about how much better they are--they'll just find something else to try and shame us over.

[Treleus]

Oh, and Treleus: you realize that if our reputation does improve, the dickheads at PRC and TMMN who laugh at the other commenters and brag about how much better they are--they'll just find something else to try and shame us over.

Well,

[tornado fang] them.

EDIT: No, honestly I was intending that we'd all pitch in, since we're all fans, but I figure everyone here knows that.

[Gaia]

Look at it this way: he's basically vindicating whining as a legitimate form of democratic discourse. Meaning that even though whining looks terrible, it works. Sonic fans had the right idea, and they got Generations for all their trouble, even if it did unleash a bunch of crazies in the midst of it all.

Sonic also has that CARRAZZEY Sonic CD iOS port that was aided by a fan (and dominates the MMX port). Maybe if Capcom got the "don't fix what ain't broke" and "bigger the stuff, bigger the money" gig out of their heads, then there's a possible chance that oh, I don't know, if the fans started doing the same thing of instead of consistant bitching and whining, and think over it. A "what can we do to fix this?" scenario.

Such as:

Showing Capcom we care by putting more effort into our fanwork, I actually have noticed quite a drop of activity in that department there for quite some time now.. As what comes around, goes around. When was the last time we put helluva much effort into something..? Legends 3? MMX: Corrupted? Get Me Off The Moon? The Megas?

Yeah, basically what I'm going here is that there's a good chance that the product will get BETTER if we actually SHOW we care, not just yell at them.

[Treleus]

The Sonic CD iOS port by Christian "The Taxman" Whitehead is a fantastic illustration of what I'm getting at. Not only was it a dedicated goal achieved by a passionate fan, but it was good enough to get recognized by SEGA. A few months later, it releases on the very system he designed it for: iOS. Proving once and for all that iOS ports do not have to be shitty ports or cheap casual games, and fans do not only have whining or ill-fated boycotts as a recourse to discontent with a company like Capcom.

So basically one of us has to effectively port one of or the entire SNES X series (and the PSX series while we're at it) onto the iOS and, if Capcom has the slightest bit of business sense among them, they will not issue a C&D and instead work with us on it to get it out. The port could even fixes some of things that were wrong with the X games, like how the Double Shot stops you dead when you fire them or the retarded boss AI in X3.

Sonic fans had Sonic Genesis on the GBA as a precedent to how poorly SEGA can botch a simple port. They follow up with a successful port of a SEGA CD game to the latest popular mobile device, and there you go. We have MMX on iOS.

[Flame]

Didnt the CD port also add Tails as a playable character and make the special stages smoother or something?

X3 port could add playable Zero.

[Align]

After thinking about it a little more, I don't think we can fix the direction of Megaman by complaining, since it's basically not bad enough to warrant a massive outcry like Mass Effect's ending and on-disc DLC did. Cutting Legends 3 would've done it if anything, but...
And in general, Capcom's games aren't actually bad, they're just not what we want. They're in this sort of, muddy, safe, grey zone.

[Treleus]

Basically a muddy haze of action, horror, and fightan' games. Not to say that any of those aren't fun. They just have details that are easy for people to harp on.

DMC? New design.
Resident Evil? Combat spinoff from minigame with no saves
MvC3? No "actual" Mega Man; also DLC and UMvC3 shenanigans which aren't that bad
SFxT? I've heard issues about balance and whatnot; also Fat Mega Man (which I thought was awesome btw) and more DLC shenanigans
Dragon's Dogma? Derivative.

None of these are actually terrible games. The more we realize that, the less alienating we'll be as disgruntled Mega Man fans. The fact is that, yeah, we got screwed over, it was a low blow, it wasn't fair, and Capcom should make amends. But our problem is the majority of Mega Man fans have been taking it out on anything and everything Capcom has been doing on what seems like the barest or most irrelevant of grounds, and so people are not taking us seriously. Worse yet, they've lost all sympathy for what happened with Legends 3. They just go into "Legends is [parasitic bomb]" and "It's the fan's fault" mode and brush it aside like it means nothing--which is true for them. It doesn't mean anything. Just another bunch of whiny fans that need to shut up and will be ignored.

Complaining is fine, but only if it stays on point. We're angry at Capcom for cancelling Legends 3 & the Prototype. That's it. And we're a little insulted by the MMX iOS and Rockman Xover offerings as of yet, and at the ridiculously expensive E-can soundtrack compilation, but if they bring in more money and more fans, fine. Let Capcom separate some cash to their mobile departments to make those games happen. But we're going to let you know we think it's [parasitic bomb] and we want better from them. Jim Sterling is right: threatening boycotts sends the wrong message and punishes developers, not the publisher. Buy what you want and don't go into crusader mode making other people feel bad about buying games they like or they want. That'll just make you look like a bit of an ass if you can't back it up with good reasons they'd listen to.

Hell, if I decide to get an iPhone. I'll put money down for both MMX iOS and Rockman Xover just so I can [sonic slicer] about how shitty it is, and show everyone else how much it sucks and why. I might even be fair to the game and point out it's good parts. How about that?

[Flame]

DLC and UMvC3 shenanigans which aren't that bad

dunno bout you, but those were PRETTY damn bad.

[Treleus]

Admittedly I didn't pay much attention, since I couldn't buy the game anyways. Too stingy for Steam I guess.

What was that about again? Locked disc content you have to purchase to unlock? It's uh, kinda bullshit I guess, but I honestly don't have much of an opinion about that. Now, I did think UMvC3 was bullshit; locked or not, THAT should've been DLC and basic product support. Wankers.

[Flame]

UMVC3 should have been the full damn game, instead they released an incomplete version at full price, then shortly after, the complete version, at a slightly reduced price, with no kind of actual deal for people who bought the original, now obsolete and useless version. And it had On disc DLC if I'm remembering right. It was all kinds of bullshit, and completely unacceptable.

On the matter of on disc DLC- if it's on the disc, it shouldnt be DLC. It ISN'T DLC. It should be part of the default game, or just not part of the disc so it can be DLC proper, not just making you pay extra for content you already paid for.

[Protoman Blues]

None of these are actually terrible games. The more we realize that, the less alienating we'll be as disgruntled Mega Man fans. The fact is that, yeah, we got screwed over, it was a low blow, it wasn't fair, and Capcom should make amends. But our problem is the majority of Mega Man fans have been taking it out on anything and everything Capcom has been doing on what seems like the barest or most irrelevant of grounds, and so people are not taking us seriously. Worse yet, they've lost all sympathy for what happened with Legends 3. They just go into "Legends is [parasitic bomb]" and "It's the fan's fault" mode and brush it aside like it means nothing--which is true for them. It doesn't mean anything. Just another bunch of whiny fans that need to shut up and will be ignored.

Complaining is fine, but only if it stays on point. We're angry at Capcom for cancelling Legends 3 & the Prototype. That's it. And we're a little insulted by the MMX iOS and Rockman Xover offerings as of yet, and at the ridiculously expensive E-can soundtrack compilation, but if they bring in more money and more fans, fine. Let Capcom separate some cash to their mobile departments to make those games happen. But we're going to let you know we think it's [parasitic bomb] and we want better from them. Jim Sterling is right: threatening boycotts sends the wrong message and punishes developers, not the publisher. Buy what you want and don't go into crusader mode making other people feel bad about buying games they like or they want. That'll just make you look like a bit of an ass if you can't back it up with good reasons they'd listen to.

Hell, if I decide to get an iPhone. I'll put money down for both MMX iOS and Rockman Xover just so I can [sonic slicer] about how shitty it is, and show everyone else how much it sucks and why. I might even be fair to the game and point out it's good parts. How about that?

While I do agree that the fans who bitched about everything were annoying, what the outside gaming world doesn't understand is that it wasn't just the cancellation that was the problem. It was also the major bullshit that came before it. The hype, the fan involvement, THEN the pay to play prototype which they said would determine if the game gets released, based on sales. Then, even though the idea behind that was absurdly bullshit, they don't even release THAT and instead just cancellation. That's what made MM fans go crazy.

As for you buying those insults, that's exactly why complaining yields nothing when it comes to gamers.

[Flame]

If you buy X iOS and Xover, even if you complain about them, yknow what the only thing Capcom will hear coming out of your mouth is?

"kaching kaching kaching"

Because you still bought it, and therefore proved to them that it was a successful product.

[Treleus]

While I do agree that the fans who bitched about everything were annoying, what the outside gaming world doesn't understand is that it wasn't just the cancellation that was the problem. It was also the major bullshit that came before it. The hype, the fan involvement, THEN the pay to play prototype which they said would determine if the game gets released, based on sales. Then, even though the idea behind that was absurdly bullshit, they don't even release THAT and instead just cancellation. That's what made MM fans go crazy.

Oh yeah, man. Absolutely. Preaching to the choir on this one. But that's what most people don't understand because they don't know it. The only way to know it was to be a fan who got involved, so for anyone who didn't and thinks they can pass judgment, they can shut the [tornado fang] up.

As for you buying those insults, that's exactly why complaining yields nothing when it comes to gamers.

If you buy X iOS and Xover, even if you complain about them, yknow what the only thing Capcom will hear coming out of your mouth is?

"kaching kaching kaching"

Because you still bought it, and therefore proved to them that it was a successful product.

Even if I didn't buy them, lots of other people who are either iPhone fans, Mega Man fans, or both, will buy them anyways. It's an inclusive albeit intersecting set of people that Capcom's aiming for with this game, not primarily Mega Man fans who don't own an iPhone. My purchase will make a miniscule, negligent difference, but my voice can travel much farther than my $5. At least if I experience it for myself and give it a legitimate thrashing, my voice can at least be taken seriously and propagate.

In the meantime, all I can do is give my negative impressions of the previews of the game that are available. Until then, I can't say it's definitely a bad game without someone else saying, "WELL HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED IT," and they'd be right.

[Flame]

That is assuming anyone would listen to you. Granted most people are pretty impressionable, (thats how internet game/movie reviewers make money) but many people would probably want to judge for themselves, or just wont know who you are. Unless you have some widely trafficked blog, or some show, your voice will only be heard within the Mega Man community, and theres already plenty of talk in it over how bad this game is, or your circle of friends/relatives.

On the other hand, miniscule or not, buying it is still buing it, and you still contributed to it's success. So when Capcom unleashes yet another flush of the toilet iOS filter game X, you would have been part of the problem.

I see what you mean, but I just dont think it's worth it. You would also be throwing away money on a bad game.

[Archer]

That is assuming anyone would listen to you.

No one important would.

[Treleus]

I dunno, guys. All a fire needs is some flammable mat and a spark. Word of mouth is like that and can say many things. Money isn't so flexible.

Also I got hired as a news contributor for Twinfinite, so I got that to look forward to as well.