Topic: Dtoid: "Rockman is not Going Over; How to Fix Capcom"

[Treleus]

http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Excel-2011/rockman-is-not-going-over-how-to-fix-capcom-233329.phtml

Thoughts? Seem too over-the-top to even be reasonable? Not enough motivation to go through with it? If so, is it because of numbers or because "I don't care"?

[The Great Gonzo]

I'm sorry, but I can't get past how he said MMU and MML3 being cancelled was a good thing. (Though I did read the article, and it seems to assume that Capcom would be smart enough to get the hint)

[Protoman Blues]

I understand his reasoning for saying the cancellations were a good thing, in terms of releasing half-assed work. That was never the issue with MML3 though. However, onto the article...

It's pretty much what I said when the game was cancelled. The only way to get through to them that this kind of bs is unacceptable is to stop giving them money. It's not going to happen though because gamers are crack addicts.

[Hypershell]

I understand his reasoning for saying the cancellations were a good thing, in terms of releasing half-assed work. That was never the issue with MML3 though.

Bingo.  Universe, I get.  For how long it took for Capcom to "officially" cancel it, it pretty much dropped off the radar the moment Inafune left the company.  Nobody besides him seemed to really "get" what in the hell the game was supposed to be.  Hell, I played it, and *I* don't get what he was going for.  The most optimistic appraisal I could ever give that game is Powered Up 2 under a new brand name; which would have been pretty sweet if the last two main series releases weren't already dry-humping Mega Man 2.

Anyway, Legends 3 most definitely did not have that problem.  There was a definite passion among the game developers throughout the entire life of the project.  They wanted to continue as badly as we wanted them to, and some dick at the top of the chain had other plans.  Probably had something to do with Capcom's most profitable game at the time being some Smurfs phone game.

It's pretty much what I said when the game was cancelled. The only way to get through to them that this kind of bs is unacceptable is to stop giving them money. It's not going to happen though because gamers are crack addicts.

Well, you're certainly right on the gamers being crack addicts part.  A "true" boycott would mean abandoning all licensed usage as well; the comics, the figures, etc.  I couldn't do it.  I doubt anyone here really wants to.  The fan-based products can be pretty damn awesome but I couldn't go on them alone when I know I have a choice.

That being said, I am in no way convinced that draining Capcom's bank accounts would convince them to change their ways.  Yes, in theory, a business that exists to make money should take a lack of income as a definite sign that something is wrong, but we're assuming a company that is far more idealistic and competitive than Capcom really is.  Low cash reserves are a valid reason to take less risks and make only the most minimal of investments, which we're seeing with XOver.  This is the Capcom that wasted money creating a perfectly marketable product and deliberately withheld it, and in doing so committed PR suicide for no reason other than they knew they could get away with it.  If they're that stubborn, who's to say that when they become poor they'll be desperate enough to spend money they may not have, instead of simply closing their doors?

Keiji Inafune has said before that Japan has lost its desire to "win".  That desire to win is what creates the desperation that allows a poor company to buck their failing trends against all odds; because they absolutely refuse to accept failure.  But if the company never finds that lost drive, and I do not believe that Capcom has, then they're unlikely to pull a hail-mary 180-degree turn from their established practices, even in the face of adversity.

Moot point since, as you said, there's no way that kind of impact would ever happen, at least not through gaming activism.  Still, I just can't help but feel that the boycott talks are naive for more reasons than just the impossibility of gathering enough supporters.

[The Great Gonzo]

So basically, there's nothing we can do.

I kinda already knew that, but man, that's depressing.

[Protoman Blues]

Well, you're certainly right on the gamers being crack addicts part.  A "true" boycott would mean abandoning all licensed usage as well; the comics, the figures, etc.  I couldn't do it.  I doubt anyone here really wants to.  The fan-based products can be pretty damn awesome but I couldn't go on them alone when I know I have a choice.

Except for the figures & patches, the comic and music can be acquired without giving Capcom any money. Believe me, I hate saying that as I LOVE buying things. The real key is to abandon the games, I think. I mean, the minor stuff is cool, but the main profit lies with the games themselves. Like we both said though, no chance.

So basically, there's nothing we can do.

I kinda already knew that, but man, that's depressing.

The boycott really is the only thing, but like Shell and I said, it's really a moot point due to the fact that you're never get enough support for fans to stop purchasing games. Only thing to do is wait for something more substantial.

[Treleus]

[tornado fang] off, that's not our only recourse.

We shouldn't have to back down from disappointment or betrayal. We just keep being fans and passionate about what we love. In fact, we should become even more passionate. Not because we're outraged at what Capcom is and isn't doing with Mega Man--those are just catalysts. We can do whatever we want because goddamnit, we [tornado fang]ing love Mega Man.

Look at the Sonic fanbase. That property has been dragged through [parasitic bomb] just as bad as the Mega Man franchise, if not worse. And look at the fans. They're probably about as insane and maligned as we are right now, but they've got Summer of Sonic, the Sonic Amateur Games Expo, Sonic Retro and it's freakishly awesome dedication to archiving everything Sonic and starting a fun romhacking community, collaborating with Sega of America to make SoS better in the UK and make Sonic Boom awesome over here in the 'states. All of that is [tornado fang]ing love, man. Love and fandom.

What do we want to do? Let GMOTM handle everything? Wait around for Tuttle's Legendary Tales or Mega Man X: Corrupted? It would only take a few of us to bring all of us together and make the fanbase bigger and better than it's ever been. Certainly better than how it seems to be now, in the wake of the bawfest that followed Legends 3's cancellation and MMX getting snubbed in MvC3.

I'm not saying that the MM community hasn't been doing a lot of the same stuff that the Sonic fanbase has been doing, like showing their love with fanart, fan music, and fan games, but I think we can all step it up. And it doesn't have to be a boycott. Nay, it shouldn't be a boycott. Forget it. Before we could ever hope to think of doing that, we would need to be bigger. But by the time we become bigger, we won't need to institute a crazy boycott campaign born out of sheer hatred and anger. We can just stand tall, strong, and numerous.

[Ladd Spencer]

Stagnation doesn't really bother me. Mega Man's plenty profitable in the long-run, and a back-burner spot has done the series good before. I can only imagine it's nerve-wracking to try and balance avoiding making games that are, essentially, different pieces of fluff on the same skeleton, while still doing that "true to its roots" thing.

Capcom made a lackluster Jojo game recently? This is the first I've heard of that, but many things are the first I've heard of since I've jumped back into the circle of news. That's really too bad. Jojo's such an amazing concept, and the Dreamcast two-in-one was so amazing I think it took #1 on my personal list of DC games. It's nice when you can play a game for months with friends and still haven't the foggiest clue how to do the coolest moves.

UMvC3 was pretty dumb after the fact. I abhor Tekken, so I avoided CxT or whatever, but I could see it being lackluster for those that would've loved it. Capcom's fighting games are always at such high risk of failing to meet potential.

It's not like Capcom is ever going to abandon any concepts. If anything they'll just pull more [parasitic bomb] out of the vault. Let's just hope that they revisit Strider proper when the time comes.

[Protoman Blues]

[tornado fang] off, that's not our only recourse.

We shouldn't have to back down from disappointment or betrayal. We just keep being fans and passionate about what we love. In fact, we should become even more passionate. Not because we're outraged at what Capcom is and isn't doing with Mega Man--those are just catalysts. We can do whatever we want because goddamnit, we [tornado fang]ing love Mega Man.

How the hell is a boycott backing down? Backing down is complaining and doing nothing about it, which is exactly what Capcom fans ARE doing. A boycott is just one form of showing that you still want the quality service and games that disappeared no more than two years ago.

Look at the Sonic fanbase. That property has been dragged through [parasitic bomb] just as bad as the Mega Man franchise, if not worse. And look at the fans. They're probably about as insane and maligned as we are right now, but they've got Summer of Sonic, the Sonic Amateur Games Expo, Sonic Retro and it's freakishly awesome dedication to archiving everything Sonic and starting a fun romhacking community, collaborating with Sega of America to make SoS better in the UK and make Sonic Boom awesome over here in the 'states. All of that is [tornado fang]ing love, man. Love and fandom.

All that didn't amount to much. Newer, better quality Sonic games did. Also, Capcom fans DID have that kind of relationship with Capcom of America. It's one of the reasons they fought so hard to get TatsuCap localized for a western audience, something which was thought to be impossible due to the licenses. But they got it done. When TatsuCap, SFIV, and MvC3 were released, Capcom held tourney's in the US at certain places. I went to one at PAX East.

THIS THE POINT OF WHY CAPCOM FANS GOT SO [tornado fang]ing PISSED.

Fans had a great relationship with Capcom at one point, literally not even that long ago. THEN it finally looked like it was MM time. They announce Legends 3 and even invite fans to help make it. Shell, Jericho, Ninja Lou, Sato, and I were all witnesses to this at the NYCC. Then we all know what happens next. Fan passion and love is REALLY kinda hard to get back when they [parasitic bomb] on it in one of the most horrific PR debacles I've ever seen. Sonic fans got it back when SEGA started actually trying to make them happy again. When we get something other than Winter Apple Martini X, it will probably return.

What do we want to do? Let GMOTM handle everything? Wait around for Tuttle's Legendary Tales or Mega Man X: Corrupted? It would only take a few of us to bring all of us together and make the fanbase bigger and better than it's ever been. Certainly better than how it seems to be now, in the wake of the bawfest that followed Legends 3's cancellation and MMX getting snubbed in MvC3.

Joining together in unity is what a boycott is all about. It's a group of devoted people, with different beliefs and ideas, joining together to stand up and do something to try and improve the state of the situation they are in.

I'm not saying that the MM community hasn't been doing a lot of the same stuff that the Sonic fanbase has been doing, like showing their love with fanart, fan music, and fan games, but I think we can all step it up. And it doesn't have to be a boycott. Nay, it shouldn't be a boycott. Forget it. Before we could ever hope to think of doing that, we would need to be bigger. But by the time we become bigger, we won't need to institute a crazy boycott campaign born out of sheer hatred and anger. We can just stand tall, strong, and numerous.

So, lemme guess this straight. Your solution is for us to join together in love and essentially draw, compose, and play our troubles away? What does this accomplish? Lemme tell you what that has, thus far, accomplished...

People are already making fanart, fan music, and fan games and all we've received in return is Winter Apple Martini X, a $200 collection of music comprising of only ONE series that I would imagine the majority of us already own already, and another two remix albums from only one series. This is factoring in that the majority of MM fans continue to buy these albums, shirts, patches, comics, figures, and the other kibbles and bits they decide to feed us. MM Fan unity continuing to do what they already do out of love and passion means that Capcom clearly will see that the fans are accepting the kibbles and bits and continue half assing it and that they might never have to full ass it again with our franchise. Winter Apple Martini X and the classic series nostalgia will be all the assing they need to do. A boycott IS standing tall, strong, and numerous. It's pretty much THE last stand before backing down and just giving up. It starts from outrage but comes from passion and love for the product and service you've been a fan of for so long now.

Also, it's still early. While WAM-X and the music are frustrating, it might not be everything Capcom is planning for the 25th. We don't know yet and we can still hope that we get something much more substantial.

[Mirby]

I just want to say that WAM-X is a hilarious name.

but yeah, the whole legends 3 thing was probably the complete opposite of what pr should be. you don't announce a game fans have been clamoring for for years, let them get involved and string them along, announce a demo of sorts to gauge interest, and the CANCEL the whole thing before the prototype version made to gauge interest even has a chance and then have the gall to tell those very fans who were helping out that they weren't, that it wasn't enough.

to my knowledge, sega never did anything like that, so honestly comparing the sonic fanbase to this one isn't really a fair comparison.

[Protoman Blues]

Exactly. What's sad is that CoA took to blunt of the fan psychotics when CoA had NOTHING to do with it.

[Ladd Spencer]

Well, from my understanding there was a whole can of worms where Capcom tried making Inafune do things he didn't want to with Legends 3. It seems to synch up with when he quit and the reasons he quoted very well.

[The Great Gonzo]

Where'd you hear that?

[Ladd Spencer]

He didn't explicitly say he quit for that reason, but I remember reading a big dissertation about a lack of quality in the industry, people keeping their positions simply because of seniority, and being pressured to change things to sell copies. Mostly all about the number of copies sold being prevalent at the earliest stages of development.

[Flame]

The thing I would fear most with a boycott, is simply, with the way Capcom has been going minimal risk, milk the cash cows, a boycott would simply register as "Mega Man is no longer profitable", and result in a more PERMANENT blow to the franchise. Abandonment by Capcom.

[Treleus]

How the hell is a boycott backing down? Backing down is complaining and doing nothing about it, which is exactly what Capcom fans ARE doing. A boycott is just one form of showing that you still want the quality service and games that disappeared no more than two years ago.

Woops. Actually, I wasn't calling a boycott "backing down", but I should've been more clear. I was just responding to the defeated attitude of having no other recourse than an impossible carpet-bombing tactic like boycotting.

All that didn't amount to much. Newer, better quality Sonic games did.

Least they had fun in the meanwhile. Also, I have a hard time believing that the Sonic fanbase weren't in some way responsible for games like Sonic 4 and Generations. Those resulted from sheer demand.

The point isn't to magically reach some milestone that will guarantee Capcom makes a good Mega Man game for us. The point is repairing our reputation that was damaged in the wake of Legends 3, and to grow the fanbase and provide more venues for them to hang out and have a good time. It's to distract us a bit from the bitter state of the franchise, but it's also for more exposure. If we start big events ourselves, chances are Capcom will take notice and reach out to us.

Also, Capcom fans DID have that kind of relationship with Capcom of America. It's one of the reasons they fought so hard to get TatsuCap localized for a western audience, something which was thought to be impossible due to the licenses. But they got it done. When TatsuCap, SFIV, and MvC3 were released, Capcom held tourney's in the US at certain places. I went to one at PAX East.

THIS THE POINT OF WHY CAPCOM FANS GOT SO [tornado fang]ing PISSED.

Fans had a great relationship with Capcom at one point, literally not even that long ago. THEN it finally looked like it was MM time. They announce Legends 3 and even invite fans to help make it. Shell, Jericho, Ninja Lou, Sato, and I were all witnesses to this at the NYCC. Then we all know what happens next. Fan passion and love is REALLY kinda hard to get back when they [parasitic bomb] on it in one of the most horrific PR debacles I've ever seen. Sonic fans got it back when SEGA started actually trying to make them happy again. When we get something other than Winter Apple Martini X, it will probably return.

I don't doubt that, honestly.
 

Joining together in unity is what a boycott is all about. It's a group of devoted people, with different beliefs and ideas, joining together to stand up and do something to try and improve the state of the situation they are in.

Boycotts can also be pretty divisive. Dangerously so. Imagine the kind of damage that would wreak on the Mega Man fanbase's reputation. I guarantee it'll be many times worse than Legends 3 and UMvC3.

So, lemme guess this straight. Your solution is for us to join together in love and essentially draw, compose, and play our troubles away?

I was thinking more along the lines of starting conventions and competitive events, like Devroom-type contests, fan game/rom hack contests, speedruns, etc. Active social stuff. Stuff that gets us noticed and attracts attention, specifically of other gamers as well as Mega Man fans.

Also, it's still early. While WAM-X and the music are frustrating, it might not be everything Capcom is planning for the 25th. We don't know yet and we can still hope that we get something much more substantial.

Whatever they're planning, they're doing a shitty job of getting us even remotely hyped for anything.

[Archer]

Why would one need to 'fix' Capcom? They're not broken.

[Flame]

Their PR sure is. Though "Broken" ain't the [tornado fang]ing word.

[Phi]

Their PR sure is. Though "Broken" ain't the [tornado fang]ing word.

Apathetic?

[Treleus]

Retarded?

[Gaia]

Weak-Minded?

I was thinking more along the lines of starting conventions and competitive events, like Devroom-type contests, fan game/rom hack contests, speedruns, etc. Active social stuff. Stuff that gets us noticed and attracts attention, specifically of other gamers as well as Mega Man fans.

However, for several times we see many a mega man sprite comic. I don't think a simple webcomic would be enough to patch the massive hole in the fanbase either. Also, mega man fangames very rarely go past the MM2 formula, being NES style at best, with once-and-a-blue-moon fangames such as Corrupted.

Also the last unique sonic fangame I've witnessed so far was an eggman-themed romhack in which you captured Sonic's animal friends per zone before the timer runs out.

[Treleus]

Ever played Eggman Hates Furries?

Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen as ambitious and hotly anticipated a Sonic fan game as Mega Man X Corrupted is for MM fangames.

[Flame]

What about Sonic Mega Mix, or S2 HD?

Pretty sure those were pretty anticipated.

Cant say how much since I'm not really active in the Fan community like I am in the Mega Man/Castlevania one.

[Gaia]

Yeah. And most of the graphics in the fangames aren't the same old genesis style sprites, heard of the Modern Genesis Project for that matter?

Yeah, I have yet to see an ambitious spriting rockman project like that. Though after seeing Xover makes me wanna do it.

[Flame]

I would like to say Mega Man X Next, but to be honest, while it was likely the most ambitious fan game before MMXC, it's sprites dont particularly look that great, I mean, they certainly are not amazing. X Corrupted however, looks plenty damn official, and tries pretty hard to stay within it's SNES visual style. (X Next certainly strayed pretty far from actually looking anything like the GBC X series style, color aside)