Topic: How would a 3D Mega man work?

[Jericho]

The combat mechanics of Metroid Other M (especially if you only do charge shots in battles, and I mean ONLY charged shots) somehow, can give a vision of a very nice 3D X game~

I thought about this from the moment I first did the tutorial for that game. In the case of Megaman though, there's got to be a good use of analogs mixed with pointer for ranged game things. Melee as per Zero can go straight DMC style with some Vanquish boost mechanics here and there.

Basically like a third person shooter with lots of movement options, then throw in some 2.5D platforming parts to stay traditional.  It's that simple.

X7 actually TRIED to do this and FAILED miserably.  In all honesty, it could have worked out.  It's obviously too late now.

Agreed entirely with this. X7 was something that could have had it, but the issues the game wound up having were just detrimental. Things were just too slow and choppy looking, there's was an aura of cheapness to it after like the very first part of the opening stage (first 3D switch at that), collision detection issues all over the place and DAT CAMERA.

In a way, it's kinda sad that after this, they went back to 2D gameplay with X8 instead of playing with the ideas for a 3D X game more, but at that time, there weren't a lot of things to take inspiration from were there in regards to making a fast paced high mobility robot asskicking-a-thon were there?

I liked X6.

Except the first(?) Gate Laboratory stage with all the totem poles and spikes and enemies everywhere, it was complete hell

I actually hate this level because from when I first played the game in 2001 until now, I could never make this one specific wall jump in that level to keep going with the Shadow Armor (bestest armor ever).

[Hypershell]

I actually hate this level because from when I first played the game in 2001 until now, I could never make this one specific wall jump in that level to keep going with the Shadow Armor (bestest armor ever).

I believe you guys are talking about the second Gate's Lab level (although I've heard some complaints about wall-jumping during one of the lava segments in the first, but that's just a matter of needing to try harder).

Hyper Dash + Jumper, if you want to make it easy.  Hyper Dash alone works if you're pressed for part slots, but you have to position it just right.

[Flame]

instead of playing with the ideas for a 3D X game more,

Well at least Command Mission was a good 3D X game, even if it was a different genre all together. Only real 'technical' issue with it is the lack of facial expressions. Its noticeable most on X, since Gatha does his thing and X just stands there with the same look on his face all the time.

[Hypershell]

Considering that it was the only 3D X game to even do lip movements, it's kinda hard to criticize Command Mission for its expressions...

Doubly so when you consider the extreme laziness of X8/MHX's character mugshots during dialogue.  I REALLY don't like Yoshikawa having the art director's seat...

[Jericho]

Considering that it was the only 3D X game to even do lip movements, it's kinda hard to criticize Command Mission for its expressions...

Doubly so when you consider the extreme laziness of X8/MHX's character mugshots during dialogue.  I REALLY don't like Yoshikawa having the art director's seat...

I was once one of the detractors to his style being used in X8, but after seeing his lush concept art for said game in the R20 book recently, I might have to reconsider and blame the in game stuff on a still immature transition to 3D models and the like on the PS2. The character captions were ok, no need to nitpick there even if animated portrait expressions would have been nice.

Seriously, his stuff is good, almost Nayakama good with regards to scenery. Character design is here and there though.

[Treleus]

Legends had facial expressions and body language nailed. Even the game engines were a pretty solid bed for a 3D action game in the X series, but they have since been superseded by Lost Planet and Legends 3, so there you go.

I do like the idea of Vanquish with Mega Man characters though. That powerslide they do could work great for Mega Man's powerslide. As for an X game, I can just imagine a real tasty recreation of the factory fight in X2's intro stage in 3D, where the big robo would take a lot more hits and destroy a lot more platforms before he was through.

[Hypershell]

I was once one of the detractors to his style being used in X8, but after seeing his lush concept art for said game in the R20 book recently, I might have to reconsider and blame the in game stuff on a still immature transition to 3D models and the like on the PS2. The character captions were ok, no need to nitpick there even if animated portrait expressions would have been nice.

Seriously, his stuff is good, almost Nayakama good with regards to scenery. Character design is here and there though.

Honestly I'm not the biggest fan of Nakayama either, but that's more on the grounds of feeling unfit for the character of Zero himself than it is his actual ability.

Here's the thing, though.  Platform transitions and new technologies do not excuse the level of laziness present in the character expressions.  I'm not even talking about lacking animation, either.  It's things like the Neutral Armor being very obviously designed to excuse the lack of armored expressions.  The parts that you've selected demand only a palette swap and they can't even be assed to do that.  MHX then took it a step further and ignored armor outright.  The basic concept of "layers" should be all that is needed to handle these things properly, but they can't be bothered to do so.

As much as I love X6, it is still one of the most infamously rushed games in the series, and even it did not commit the extreme lapses in artistic presentation that X8 and MHX do.  Yoshikawa, as I see it, focuses too much on making the job easier, rather than what does the characters justice.

Legends had facial expressions and body language nailed.

An EXTREMELY valid point there.  The use of Legends' facial expressions is phenomenal.  Throughout both games you see a lot of face textures designed for a specific moment, and a specific camera angle, to create the illusion of a level of detail that the PS1 is not technically capable of.  It's some pretty outstanding stuff.

[Flame]

Yeah, X6 had great mugshots.

I recall X4's mugshots followed the same deal for X's armor.

MHX and X8 are the laziest in the mugshot department. (of the X games that USE Mugshots in conversations- X5 had armored mugs for the weapon selectscreen, but didnt use mugs in conversations..)

although the Zero series never made much of a fuss about Zero's color swaps in mugs either.

[Align]

I just wish they made more use of expressions. I mean, I got that shot while X was halfway through blinking by pure chance and it just adds so much personality to it.
(this shot http://i40.tinypic.com/2qmzpd5.jpg in case you don't know what I mean)

[Hypershell]

Yeah, X6 had great mugshots.

I recall X4's mugshots followed the same deal for X's armor.

As did X3 (character switching), and the Get Weapon screens of X1 and X2.

It's sad to think that presentational details that were accomplished on the Super NES cannot be preserved in today's era of gaming technology, but I guess rising development costs tend to encourage devs to cut some very obvious corners.

[Flame]

Actually, isnt the neutral armor itself lazy? Its basically so they dont have to have X running around mix matching parts. This way, he has a full armor on at all times, and all it changes are the lights on it. I mean 2 armors in one sounds nice on paper, but when you realize that parts collection is no different from any other X game, and the full armors have different names to boot, it seems like it's just terribly convenient that the 2 armors are part of the one armor... They dont have to model different armors that way, and dont have to model individual parts either, just the one full armor, and change only the lights on it.

It's even more so lazy when you notice that they also made the Ultimate armor just a pallet swap part of the same armor.

X7 for it's faults, at least stuck to the pre-X5 tradition regarding armor parts. Then again though, there was only one armor to model, whereas X8 has 3.

So perhaps it might have been too expensive. Though it still feels pretty lazy.

[Sigma Zero X]

As lazy as the armor was, the Neutral Armor is my favorite armor for X.  It started off with me loving the white shoes of X in the Neutral Armor when I first saw a picture of him.  Then the functions of the various parts really got me liking the armor even more.  The Icarus and Hermes variants made the Neutral Armor even cooler, although the coloring of Ultimate Armor was fair at best IMO.  Finally, the Neutral Armor made X slightly resemble Casshern (I like Casshern too, BTW.)  X in the Neutral Armor is probably the major factor that made me like Megaman X8 a lot. 

[Hypershell]

I don't blame you.  Functionally the Neutral Armor is freaking awesome.  Mix-and-match armor is something I was dreaming of ever since X6.  It's just that artistically they obviously bare-boned it.

...although that's pretty much the same story for most of X8 and MHX.  And I don't think it's as if the fanbase hasn't noticed, either; Yoshikawa seems to redesign almost everything he touches and the only one that actually stuck was Alia (breasts and feminine hair styles will do that).

[Flame]

Not to mention graphically, X8 and MHX are underwhelming when compared to it's two predecessors.

Actually, one thing I don't get is the getting rid of the cell shaded look X8 had in I believe it was the trailers? Or one of them? And which both X7 and CM have. It looked really good.

[Phi]

I consider CM to be the most visually pleasing MM game. Unfortunately, we haven't really seen a more graphically achieved game in the franchise. And I really, really love the design choice for X's armor. Ultimate armor was overkill, but I like the Gundam vibe.

[Flame]

X-Fire looked more like the traditional Ultimate Armor IMO.

[Hypershell]

I consider CM to be the most visually pleasing MM game. Unfortunately, we haven't really seen a more graphically achieved game in the franchise. And I really, really love the design choice for X's armor. Ultimate armor was overkill, but I like the Gundam vibe.

Very much agreed on all points.  Command Mission was by far the best looking Mega Man game and its original designs, even if at times unorthadox, were pretty damn badass.

[xemiroth]

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[xemiroth]

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