Sonic Generations (360, PS3, 3DS) - Holiday 2011

Rin · 100415

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline VixyNyan

  • Kind & Generous Fluffy Pillow~
  • RPM Ecchi Princess
  • ****
    • Posts: 9824
    • Gender: Female
  • ♪ Vixylicious Nya Nya~ ♪
    • View Profile
    • Rockman Perfect Memories
Reply #200 on: June 24, 2011, 04:14:48 AM
I did play it at 1920x1080 while at my work place (360 version), and I thought it looked amazing. It looks good at home at 1280x1024 too. >U<

And yes, it doesn't play at 60 (visual) fps in the style of Smash Bros. More like 30 (visual) fps like in Colors and Unleashed.

And the demo does keep track of your time record, and the check points show how fast or slow you are.

It won't matter much I guess, since the demo will stop working in 3 weeks.

Nintendo 3DS Friend Code: 3480-2506-4200
[DeviantArt|Twitch.tv|Youtube|Fan Work|WiiVC|Character File]
Rock10: Ranking. Rock9: AC, EA, SS, Challenge, Ranking.
(c) Sky Child~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         


Offline Police Girl

  • A total qt
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 16878
    • Gender: Female
  • cannons are cool i guess
    • View Profile
Reply #201 on: June 24, 2011, 04:31:58 AM
Colors and Unleashed were 30fps? Why?



Offline OBJECTION MAN

  • Neo Arcadian
  • *
    • Posts: 1847
    • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Reply #202 on: June 24, 2011, 05:30:40 AM
The majority of the industry says "screw frame count, go high end graphics".

You can do prettier things when you have twice the draw time than normal. In some games, it doesn't effect things. Like turn based games, or puzzle games, or games that dont require split second decisions and timing. On other games, this can be detrimental, such as fighters, shooters, FAST PACED PLATFORMERS, etc.

For a good example, turn on the 3D mode in SSFIV-3D and see the difference. Try playing on and off back and forth, you'll see what I mean. I can't play seriously with the 3D on most of the time, because its too choppy and I cant react as quick with such slow visual updates.


TWITCH   ➧ TWITTER   ➧ DISCORD   ➧ MY GAMES

Knockout Mondays
Experimental day: Fighting game engine project Live Gamedev (8PM - 10 PM EST)

WIP Wednesdays
Hamster Drop Gold Edition Live Gamedev (8PM - 10 PM EST)

Weekend Game Hangout
Marc, Amber, & Friends (Saturday Evening EST)


Offline Solar

  • SHSL Solar Boy
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 6696
    • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Reply #203 on: June 24, 2011, 05:34:02 AM
You're over reacting at the end there. I'm not saying it doesn't affect anything, but it's not that bad and a lot of people can't tell the difference. Hell, I got most trials with said choppy mode, including trials I hadn't done on the console version yet.


My life is currently bears and Jojos and everything is great.



Offline STM

  • says you shouldn't play with your
  • Neo Arcadian
  • *
    • Posts: 1667
  • Herpus Derpimus Prima
    • View Profile
Reply #204 on: June 24, 2011, 04:33:58 PM
This game utilitzes the Hedgehog Engine, which as an aside I'd like to state is just a rather powerful global lighting engine, not a physics engine. That one's done by Havok (or PhysX on the Wii.) The only other game that used it was Sonic Unleashed. Problem is with all the detail Sega puts in surrounding environments, on levels, on objects, on things exploding everywhere as you zoom right by them, it gets to be somewhat taxing on the system.

For that reason, the Xbox 360 version had a limiter on its framerate. The game was capped to run at 30FPS, and you'll notice on some of the more intense moments that the framerate still drops (especially in places like Adabat, the Southeast Asia stage.)

The PlayStation 3 version, for whatever reason, doesn't have this limiter on. The game runs at 60FPS, but jumps around at times to 45, sometimes to 30, and infrequently to levels lower than that during more infrequent scenes.

Sonic 2006 runs at 60FPS (usually), but it also doesn't have as much going on and doesn't have to load global lighting effects from the Hedgehog Engine.

As for Sonic Colors, that one I'm not sure about. We know the Wii is quite capable of handling 60FPS without much of a problem, but perhaps Sega put it in as a precaution? It doesn't use the Hedgehog Engine (as they claim the Wii isn't strong enough for it) so I can't really think as to the reason so much as a few levels have a lot going on that 60 to 45 dips would be occasional.



Offline VixyNyan

  • Kind & Generous Fluffy Pillow~
  • RPM Ecchi Princess
  • ****
    • Posts: 9824
    • Gender: Female
  • ♪ Vixylicious Nya Nya~ ♪
    • View Profile
    • Rockman Perfect Memories
Reply #205 on: June 24, 2011, 05:53:30 PM
A good example of frame rates. Compare Sonic Adventure (original Dreamcast, not the updated version) and Sonic Adventure DX (all the other versions on Gamecube and XBLA for example).

Nintendo 3DS Friend Code: 3480-2506-4200
[DeviantArt|Twitch.tv|Youtube|Fan Work|WiiVC|Character File]
Rock10: Ranking. Rock9: AC, EA, SS, Challenge, Ranking.
(c) Sky Child~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         


Offline OBJECTION MAN

  • Neo Arcadian
  • *
    • Posts: 1847
    • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Reply #206 on: June 24, 2011, 06:45:37 PM
You're over reacting at the end there. I'm not saying it doesn't affect anything, but it's not that bad and a lot of people can't tell the difference. Hell, I got most trials with said choppy mode, including trials I hadn't done on the console version yet.

If I recall correctly, these trials are just a static patterned combo each time. A set static timing sequence that really wouldn't have much to do with the frame rate.

I'm talking about, in a real match, the opponent's foot twitches a few pixels and I read, judge, and select my counter attack or blocking stance based on that. The less frames, the less I get to see that movement, the slower my reaction time is, and the less effective my fighting becomes.


TWITCH   ➧ TWITTER   ➧ DISCORD   ➧ MY GAMES

Knockout Mondays
Experimental day: Fighting game engine project Live Gamedev (8PM - 10 PM EST)

WIP Wednesdays
Hamster Drop Gold Edition Live Gamedev (8PM - 10 PM EST)

Weekend Game Hangout
Marc, Amber, & Friends (Saturday Evening EST)


Offline Fxeni

  • Master's Unit
  • *
    • Posts: 4552
    • Gender: Male
  • Shall we?
    • View Profile
Reply #207 on: June 24, 2011, 07:10:54 PM
It could be that they don't want the FPS to vary and jump all over the place quite as much (like the PS3 version seems to do, I'll have to check that out later). It could also be that they haven't quite optimized the coding to handle everything that's going on, although they really should have for the demo level at the very least. I also suspect the Hedgehog Engine probably has it's own issues, but it's only conjecture more than anything else to be honest.

As far as Sonic Colors, I assume it was in the interest of keeping the framerate constant. Chances are they toyed with the idea of having it at 60 frames, but it varied too much to be to their liking. A stable framerate is more important than a higher one in the grand scheme of things. We'll see how it turns out for Generations, although I'm not holding my breath.



Offline Police Girl

  • A total qt
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 16878
    • Gender: Female
  • cannons are cool i guess
    • View Profile
Reply #208 on: June 24, 2011, 08:58:56 PM
This game utilitzes the Hedgehog Engine, which as an aside I'd like to state is just a rather powerful global lighting engine, not a physics engine. That one's done by Havok (or PhysX on the Wii.) The only other game that used it was Sonic Unleashed. Problem is with all the detail Sega puts in surrounding environments, on levels, on objects, on things exploding everywhere as you zoom right by them, it gets to be somewhat taxing on the system.

For that reason, the Xbox 360 version had a limiter on its framerate. The game was capped to run at 30FPS, and you'll notice on some of the more intense moments that the framerate still drops (especially in places like Adabat, the Southeast Asia stage.)

The PlayStation 3 version, for whatever reason, doesn't have this limiter on. The game runs at 60FPS, but jumps around at times to 45, sometimes to 30, and infrequently to levels lower than that during more infrequent scenes.

Sonic 2006 runs at 60FPS (usually), but it also doesn't have as much going on and doesn't have to load global lighting effects from the Hedgehog Engine.

As for Sonic Colors, that one I'm not sure about. We know the Wii is quite capable of handling 60FPS without much of a problem, but perhaps Sega put it in as a precaution? It doesn't use the Hedgehog Engine (as they claim the Wii isn't strong enough for it) so I can't really think as to the reason so much as a few levels have a lot going on that 60 to 45 dips would be occasional.

There are some places in the PS3 version where it tends to run better than the 360 version (Adabat is considerably better in places) while in most cases its worse (Empire City, Eggmanland, almost ALL Werehog segments, etc.)

And when I was playing the PS3 Demo I never noticed any loss of framerate, just a steady 30fps.



Offline Hypershell

  • needs DRAGONITE POWER!
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 5271
    • Gender: Male
  • Steel in Zee Head
    • View Profile
    • Get equipped with Hyper's DA
Reply #209 on: June 24, 2011, 11:28:07 PM
You know, it's pretty sad when we're having these same 30-vs-60 discussions when Sonic Adventure 2 did a steady 60fps on the Dreamcast so long ago (and was for the most part better-looking than either Heroes or Shadow, to boot). 

I don't think it's terribly detrimental in terms of gameplay, but for a decent high-speed experience (Sonic, F-Zero), 60fps definitely goes a long way.  Certainly further than rendering some extra leaves in the background.

Also on DeviantArt, Rumble, DLive.tv, and the Fediverse (@freespeechextremist.com and @bae.st)


Offline Police Girl

  • A total qt
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 16878
    • Gender: Female
  • cannons are cool i guess
    • View Profile
Reply #210 on: June 25, 2011, 01:20:11 AM
You know, it's pretty sad when we're having these same 30-vs-60 discussions when Sonic Adventure 2 did a steady 60fps on the Dreamcast so long ago (and was for the most part better-looking than either Heroes or Shadow, to boot). 

I don't think it's terribly detrimental in terms of gameplay, but for a decent high-speed experience (Sonic, F-Zero), 60fps definitely goes a long way.  Certainly further than rendering some extra leaves in the background.

But all people care about nowadays are graphics.

Sure, those are nice, but is it worth sacrificing gameplay?

If there is a PC version surely it will be the best graphics wise (Which might also mean best Framerate wise.), worst controls wise.



Offline OBJECTION MAN

  • Neo Arcadian
  • *
    • Posts: 1847
    • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Reply #211 on: June 25, 2011, 02:46:37 AM
You know, it's pretty sad when we're having these same 30-vs-60 discussions when Sonic Adventure 2 did a steady 60fps on the Dreamcast so long ago (and was for the most part better-looking than either Heroes or Shadow, to boot). 

I don't think it's terribly detrimental in terms of gameplay, but for a decent high-speed experience (Sonic, F-Zero), 60fps definitely goes a long way.  Certainly further than rendering some extra leaves in the background.

*high five*


TWITCH   ➧ TWITTER   ➧ DISCORD   ➧ MY GAMES

Knockout Mondays
Experimental day: Fighting game engine project Live Gamedev (8PM - 10 PM EST)

WIP Wednesdays
Hamster Drop Gold Edition Live Gamedev (8PM - 10 PM EST)

Weekend Game Hangout
Marc, Amber, & Friends (Saturday Evening EST)


Offline Phi

  • RPM Knight
  • ****
    • Posts: 14855
    • View Profile
Reply #212 on: June 26, 2011, 07:27:44 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcbZxeUbGys&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]

YES plz

Honestly, something about this seems more fun than using modern Sonic. Maybe the fact that you can't boost everywhere, thus making it more challenging. Almost like Sonic Adventure (2) but more straight forward. Now we just need Omochao with his incredibly insightful advice and we're good.



Offline Police Girl

  • A total qt
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 16878
    • Gender: Female
  • cannons are cool i guess
    • View Profile
Reply #213 on: June 26, 2011, 10:55:46 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcbZxeUbGys&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]

YES plz

Honestly, something about this seems more fun than using modern Sonic. Maybe the fact that you can't boost everywhere, thus making it more challenging. Almost like Sonic Adventure (2) but more straight forward. Now we just need Omochao with his incredibly insightful advice and we're good.

Wonder how they did that, thats pretty sweet.



Offline Flame

  • The obsessive
  • RPM Soldier
  • ****
    • Posts: 16013
    • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Reply #214 on: June 27, 2011, 03:41:10 AM
*How modern Sonic should have been all along*

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Solar

  • SHSL Solar Boy
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 6696
    • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Reply #215 on: June 27, 2011, 07:44:15 AM
If I recall correctly, these trials are just a static patterned combo each time. A set static timing sequence that really wouldn't have much to do with the frame rate.

I'm talking about, in a real match, the opponent's foot twitches a few pixels and I read, judge, and select my counter attack or blocking stance based on that. The less frames, the less I get to see that movement, the slower my reaction time is, and the less effective my fighting becomes.

*back from a trip*
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that it doesn't affect anything or that 60 is not clearly superior to 30, just that if it's a steady 30 like SF4 3D it's decent enough for most people and definitely not unplayable or choppy.


My life is currently bears and Jojos and everything is great.



Offline STM

  • says you shouldn't play with your
  • Neo Arcadian
  • *
    • Posts: 1667
  • Herpus Derpimus Prima
    • View Profile
Reply #216 on: June 27, 2011, 10:58:26 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcbZxeUbGys&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]

YES plz

Honestly, something about this seems more fun than using modern Sonic. Maybe the fact that you can't boost everywhere, thus making it more challenging. Almost like Sonic Adventure (2) but more straight forward. Now we just need Omochao with his incredibly insightful advice and we're good.

This is the part where I tell you he's in the game and serves as the hint bubble this time around. His model was found in the game's data and you can see him flying around Sonic in some City Escape videos. You can also see it in your video link (or the other ones on that channel) if you pause when the player is going through the intro menus.



Offline Phi

  • RPM Knight
  • ****
    • Posts: 14855
    • View Profile
Reply #217 on: June 28, 2011, 03:43:47 PM
This is the part where I tell you he's in the game and serves as the hint bubble this time around. His model was found in the game's data and you can see him flying around Sonic in some City Escape videos. You can also see it in your video link (or the other ones on that channel) if you pause when the player is going through the intro menus.

Just checked the City Escape videos, didn't notice him before.

Posted on: June 27, 2011, 09:06:57 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orT1_jSfOcQ&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]



Offline Police Girl

  • A total qt
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 16878
    • Gender: Female
  • cannons are cool i guess
    • View Profile
Reply #218 on: June 28, 2011, 10:25:49 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwbi1tOgQPM[/youtube]

Have some Classic City Escape Music.

See if you can guess what the secondary melody is. :)



Offline Phi

  • RPM Knight
  • ****
    • Posts: 14855
    • View Profile
Reply #219 on: June 28, 2011, 11:08:40 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwbi1tOgQPM[/youtube]

Have some Classic City Escape Music.

See if you can guess what the secondary melody is. :)

Endless Mine - Sonic 3 (happens to be my favorite "mini-game" theme from the game)

*stretches out hand* Cookie, please.



Offline Protoman Blues

  • Green Lantern of Sector 1337
  • RPM Knight
  • ****
    • Posts: 31343
    • Gender: Male
  • Searching for Wanda
    • View Profile
Reply #220 on: June 28, 2011, 11:10:53 PM
Not bad at all. Man, do I hate Auto-tune though.



Offline Police Girl

  • A total qt
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 16878
    • Gender: Female
  • cannons are cool i guess
    • View Profile
Reply #221 on: July 02, 2011, 03:24:49 AM
Endless Mine - Sonic 3 (happens to be my favorite "mini-game" theme from the game)

*stretches out hand* Cookie, please.

 :cookie:

And say what you will about Auto-Tune, this song uses it pretty well.

Besides, its a Remix, its not like the original used Auto Tune.

Posted on: June 28, 2011, 04:25:48 PM
Goddamnit Sonic Retro is bitching about the Level list like no tomorrow.

They're all like "BAWWW SEGA USED CITY TROPE 4 TIMES AND SEASIDE HILL IS THE SAME AS GREEN HILL BAWWWW"

I want to smack them upside the head for thinking Sega would use their level trope system. Sega is probably choosing the most memorable levels (In their opinions, personally Kingdom Valley was a better Sonic 06 level and Eggmanland for Unleashed would make more sense than goddamn Rooftop Run which wasn't even that fun.) But I digress.

Anywho, Casino Night in 360/PS3 version is a Pre-order bonus at Gamestop.

....SON OF A [sonic slicer].




Offline Phi

  • RPM Knight
  • ****
    • Posts: 14855
    • View Profile
Reply #222 on: July 02, 2011, 03:40:49 AM
Anywho, Casino Night in 360/PS3 version is a Pre-order bonus at Gamestop.

Yeah, but i think it's a pinball game. So it's pretty useless anyway.



It's a slap in the face for me, considering both Casino Night and Lava Reef were one of my favorite stages in Sonic 3.



Offline Police Girl

  • A total qt
  • Legendary Hero
  • *
    • Posts: 16878
    • Gender: Female
  • cannons are cool i guess
    • View Profile
Reply #223 on: July 02, 2011, 03:52:23 AM
Better than nothing.

People at retro are hoping for DLC stages, same here, doubt its gonna happen.



Offline Kieran

  • He's just a
  • SA-Class Hunter
  • *
    • Posts: 836
    • View Profile
Reply #224 on: July 02, 2011, 05:35:39 AM
So, apparently the demo was hacked a little more and they found the elemental shields from Sonic 3, fully functional.

http://www.sonicretro.org/2011/06/elemental-shields-how-do-they-work/

The Other Side
http://www.crowdedstreet.net
irc.esper.net #theotherside

Commander Shepard: *stares blankly at a video of scantily clad asari dancers* ...What kind of hotel is this?
Liara T'Soni: It is a luxury resort with an... exotic edge.  Azure is slang for a part of the asari body in some places on Illium.
Shepard: Where?
Liara: The lower reaches, near the bottom.
Shepard: I meant, "where on the asari body?"
Liara: So did I.