Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

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Offline Blackhook

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Reply #225 on: February 26, 2012, 06:45:12 PM
So am I...yet, I found no enjoyment in X6...

though honestly...I really enjoy only X1 and X8 from the x series....


Offline Flame

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Reply #226 on: February 26, 2012, 08:06:08 PM
X6 is Nintendo hard.

Which is funny because it's on a Sony.

X8 just feels bland to me overall the more I play it. Its a good game, but levels feel bland and boring and linear. And X4 is STILL the only game to actually do Jetbike stages well. Good God Man-o-war's stage is such a nightmare...

I attribute some of the blandness to the way power ups work, which is, just grind metals and find poorly hidden rare metals and buy from the shop. (and capsules aren't too hidden either.) Though that's hardly an excuse, since Classic 9 and 10 do the same thing and they still have better level design than X8. X8 simply has more linear levels that are easy to go through without weapons.

I dont know why, but I sometimes find myself enjoying X7 over X8. I must be silly.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Karasai♪

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Reply #227 on: February 26, 2012, 08:33:08 PM
Yeti's stage is worse, it has a bunch of crappy ways to die, and you NEED both characters to survive if you want that armor piece (Zero and X)

why do you have to get killed for touching a wall? why cant they just move you over a bit when you hit it? (like when the Stingray ship appears the 2nd time)



Offline Blackhook

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Reply #228 on: February 26, 2012, 10:53:11 PM
Well..I like X8 mostly due to it's soundtrack and Zero's weapons >3>
That's where my enjoyment comes from.And some of the boss battles. For me it's gennerally hard to enjoy something. The games I enjoyed the most get replayed by me the most....I've played each of the X games once (besides X1 which I can replay any day without getting tired of it)
There was literaly nothing for me to return to after playing the rest once...


Offline Treleus

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Reply #229 on: February 26, 2012, 11:18:08 PM
Weapons or parts.  Neither are outright required, it's a matter of what tickles your fancy.  That's why I love the game.
ABSOLUTELY not.  For all of the ambition that X5 showed, X6 pretty much perfected everything it attempted (other than the armor-must-be-completed-before-use thing, dunno what they were thinking with that one).  X6 is one of my favorite main-series games, right up there with X1 and X4.

I wouldn't call grinding for Nightmare Souls and forcing you to reload saved games to save a corrupted Reploid here and there "perfected", but it's a little better than how X5 handled it. And as rewarding as that secret info cutscene was, inadvertently collecting 3000 souls to get it--and then removing High Max from the secret areas--wasn't the best way to do it.

Holy hell, is that ever burying your head in the sand.  All of the game's "standard" forms (Falcon, Blade, Shadow, Zero) are balanced according to offense, defense, and mobility (mainly in mid-air).  Falcon is the all-arounder without excelling in anything in particular.  Blade is more mobile, less offensive.  Shadow is more offensive, less mobile.  Zero is both offensive and mobile at the expense of defense.

Isn't defense merely a factor who rescues more Reploids and collect life-ups with? Also, Zero's Z-buster is stronger than X's standard buster while X's saber is much weaker than Zero's. Sure, you can only fire the Z-buster when you're standing, but you can still take out a wider range of enemies in midair in a single swipe of the Z-saber than X can, making short work of mid-bosses and the like, so it hardly matters. The saber does like 5-10 hits of chip damage whereas X does 1-2. Oh, and get this: the Z-buster is devastating against High Max, whereas the X-buster only manages to stun him. Evidently just hitting him with Zero's saber is enough to do damage to him, whereas X's doesn't even do damage. Same deal with the Blade Armor. How [tornado fang]ing retarded is that? So you can't even blame me for fighting High-Max with regular X (and even if you did, I'd point you to the name of the game).

I really expected the Blade Armor to be more offensively capable than X's standard buster and saber, but that's incorrect. The only good things about the Blade Armor are mobility (particularly to rescue Reploids and get the Shadow Armor) and a decent Giga attack. I'd much rather just use vanilla X with some parts equipped, but clearly the game doesn't want me to do that, because certain stages require greater mobility than he's capable of in order for me to progress and not die. Central Museum is one example. The least they could've done is just given the air dash to regular X and scrapped the Falcon Armor altogether, but they decided to wait until X8 to do that.

Beyond that we have the cheat code unlocked Ultimate Armor and Black Zero which both excel across the board, and plain vanilla X, who as previously mentioned exists for no reason other than challenge.

I mean, besides the game being called Mega Man X. That reasoning is just a step away from being the optional unlockable. >.>

It's also worth mentioning, as far as "balance" goes, that this is the *ONLY* PS1 game where the Ultimate Armor is not "abilities you already had + infinite Giga Attack".  I still don't get why X5 didn't just give 4th Armor the Stock Charge...

Because nobody liked the Stock Charge, despite it being better than the Plasma Shot if you knew how to use it.

Also, the Ultimate Armor shouldn't have been reused so much. Even as a cheat code. It's just lazy.

While X6 does pretty much throw the kitchen sink at you, I don't agree in the SLIGHTEST that it is unfair (well, besides maybe Mijinion's nightmare effect).

And the general game design. They do literally throw [parasitic bomb] at you that you couldn't have possibly seen coming.

If it's not unfair, it's probably just put there to have no effect but annoy and frustrate you, despite your best efforts. Those [tornado fang]ing mosquitos, man. During Blaze Heatnix's stage, no less. And how about that stupid blackout rave party effect? [tornado fang] the Nightmare System.

It is more open, and expects you to think for yourself, and the solutions run considerably deeper than the formulaic obstacles that the other games present.  While it presents tremendous challenges there's also a wealth of work-arounds to its many challenges, which engages the player by having them find *a* solution without it necessarily being the only arbitrary strategy that the developers just decided should work.  Further, the game takes what X5 attempted to do with the expansion to armor and parts, adds more to the mix, and unlocks its full potential in a way that X5 simply does not allow.  The increased difficulty is the natural evolution to continue to keep the game balanced in the face of all that power.  Otherwise, you get Xtreme 2 (which I also love, but not everybody likes easy games).

You're making "excessive, overly punishing trial and error" sound deeper and more fun than it is.

As was said above I too get that X6 isn't for everyone.  But the things it does differently are an extension of what Mega Man is built on: non-linear progress, growing more powerful, and finding the best weapons and equipment to tackle a given obstacle.  They were simply taken to a far greater extreme than ever before (or since).  To me, that is challenging for all of the RIGHT reasons.  Unfortunately, it also makes the game less approachable, both to outsiders and to the not-so-hardcore fans.

Oh, seriously man? I don't enjoy X6 because I'm a less hardcore fan than you? The one that's bothering to play as vanilla X on Xtreme difficulty? Give me a break.

It's a poorly balanced, chaotic, and marginally rewarding Mega Man X game. It punishes you for using and exploring stages with X (just about any variation) by giving you an unwinnable fight with High Max and giving you arguably gimped weaponry and clearly substandard mobility compared to any other choice in the game. You can't even beat the game with just X because of how the Gate stages are designed, so finding armors (or playing as Zero) has now become a necessity where it used to be optional. Then there's the bullshit Nightmare System with it's bees, random blackouts, and spamming enemy placement with Nightmares all over the game. Even Ninja Gaiden isn't full of so much bullshit. It's not like any of this is fixed by not picking vanilla X, so that's hardly an refutation for why I think the game sucks--more like part of why I think it sucks.

If you enjoy it, I can't change your mind. But I sure as hell can disagree.

And by the way, X6 may be the toughest X-series game, but it is a long way from being the most sadistic Mega Man game.  That title, far and away, goes to Powered Up.

Make that thread. Right now. I want to read it.



Offline Police Girl

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Reply #230 on: February 26, 2012, 11:21:41 PM
The least they could've done is just given the air dash to regular X and scrapped the Falcon Armor altogether, but they decided to wait until X8 to do that.

Actually that started in X7, though its easy to forget since nobody plays that.



Offline Flame

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Reply #231 on: February 26, 2012, 11:25:58 PM
Well..I like X8 mostly due to it's soundtrack and Zero's weapons >3>
That's where my enjoyment comes from.And some of the boss battles. For me it's gennerally hard to enjoy something. The games I enjoyed the most get replayed by me the most....I've played each of the X games once (besides X1 which I can replay any day without getting tired of it)
There was literaly nothing for me to return to after playing the rest once...
Unfortunately music is another area where it falls short for me. Its nice, but only a few tunes stood out to me. Jakob, both Sigma battle themes, Lumine's themes, and Vile's theme I guess. The other stage themes are somewhat forgettable. im of the midn that X8 relies way too much on sounding like rock music with guitars and such, and ends up just feeling hollow. Or maybe I just dont like the guitar type they use for everything.

Zero's weapons WERE nice. So were Axl's. I loved the ice gatling. X however, got sort of shafted, as almost all of his weapons are useless unless he's grounded, or just kind of useless/cumbersome in general.


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The least they could've done is just given the air dash to regular X and scrapped the Falcon Armor altogether, but they decided to wait until X8 to do that.
X7 started that, as RMZX just stated.

That is however something I am against. Mainly because the usual point of how X works is that he has little mobility, and requires his armors in order to gain extra mobility like the air dash. Having it from the start makes the leg parts obsolete without giving them better more creative functions, which X7 and 8 sort of failed at, since the glide was all sorts of stupid and giving you a shadow dash dont quite cut it.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Treleus

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Reply #232 on: February 26, 2012, 11:31:43 PM
Unfortunately music is another area where it falls short for me. Its nice, but only a few tunes stood out to me. Jakob, both Sigma battle themes, Lumine's themes, and Vile's theme I guess. The other stage themes are somewhat forgettable. im of the midn that X8 relies way too much on sounding like rock music with guitars and such, and ends up just feeling hollow. Or maybe I just dont like the guitar type they use for everything.

Aw come on, don't tell me you didn't like the Missile Base themes. Especially when you board the Ride Armor. That was awesome!

Zero's weapons WERE nice. So were Axl's. I loved the ice gatling. X however, got sort of shafted, as almost all of his weapons are useless unless he's grounded, or just kind of useless/cumbersome in general.

The ground crystal move for X is necessary to find some of Zero's weapons and other knick-knacks throughout the stages. The others are barely memorable, and you're better off just sticking with X's charged shots to clear the screen. I'm glad they buffed his charge shot this time around. Much more effective than in the PSX games.

That is however something I am against. Mainly because the usual point of how X works is that he has little mobility, and requires his armors in order to gain extra mobility like the air dash. Having it from the start makes the leg parts obsolete without giving them better more creative functions, which X7 and 8 sort of failed at, since the glide was all sorts of stupid and giving you a shadow dash dont quite cut it.

That's irrelevant, since air-dashing (and double-jumping) had become standard for Zero even before X7, and now that him and Axl have it by default, it'd be stupid to not let X have it.

Besides, it's not like air-dashing is the end-all-be-all of mobility upgrades in the X games. They can come up with more stuff for leg upgrades if they even tried a little bit to be creative.



Offline Police Girl

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Reply #233 on: February 27, 2012, 12:01:16 AM
That's irrelevant, since air-dashing (and double-jumping) had become standard for Zero even before X7

Yeah, in X6. X5 he had Air Dash by Default but still had to obtain the Double Jump.

Axl is a newer reploid, and while this isn't that big of a deal normally, its a good excuse as to why he has Air Dash by default.

X I can assume finally integrated the Air Dash into his systems in X7 despite choosing to be some pacifist wuss.

Having it from the start makes the leg parts obsolete without giving them better more creative functions, which X7 and 8 sort of failed at, since the glide was all sorts of stupid and giving you a shadow dash dont quite cut it.
I'm not even really sure what X8's leg parts do (I thought Shadow Dash was part of the Ultimate Armor.) so I can't really comment on that.
X7's glide was extremely helpful when it came to A) Eliminating any need to play as Axl and B) Skipping large parts of levels, other than that it was really a little too slow.



Offline Flame

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Reply #234 on: February 27, 2012, 12:08:32 AM
Yes, Zero and Axl have Air dash by default, but they dont get armors. X does. And they have to do things. X1 gave him dash, X2-4 gave him air dash, X5 and 6 evolved and gave free flight and a multidirectional mach dash, (which lets you hover in mid air until you let go of the button) but X7 which gave him air dash by default, went backwards and gave him a not so great glide, and X8 just gave him a higher jump, and a shadow dash.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Da Dood

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Reply #235 on: February 27, 2012, 12:10:51 AM
X6 is one of my guilty pleasures in gaming. I gotta admit that back then I was in a serious Mega Man vibe and would play the hell out of anything they released in the series. Maybe it'd be a different story had I played it one year later.

I guess the fact that the engine and controls are the same as X4 and X5 made me feel right at home.

I don't bother arguing about technical stuff in X6 because it's obviously not a well designed game. My runs usually boil down to unlocking Zero, doing everything until Shadow Armor is available, then alternating the two. Sometimes I only collect the essential stuff and go straight to High Max, sometimes I get UH ranks. I like the options there. Nightmare system is dumb, but usually there's a least annoying effect that I can take advantage.

And I love the X8 soundtrack, even bought it from Japanland. :D

X8 Hermes Leg also allows him to run faster, by the way.


Offline Hypershell

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Reply #236 on: February 27, 2012, 12:11:07 AM
Aw come on, don't tell me you didn't like the Missile Base themes. Especially when you board the Ride Armor. That was awesome!
Can't argue with that.

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The ground crystal move for X is necessary to find some of Zero's weapons and other knick-knacks throughout the stages. The others are barely memorable, and you're better off just sticking with X's charged shots to clear the screen. I'm glad they buffed his charge shot this time around. Much more effective than in the PSX games.
Charged Crystal Wall is essentially Rush Search X, which I feel is one of the worst ideas to hit Mega Man.  It's somewhat less insulting in X8 because you're not relegating a whole character to such a useless and unwieldy function, but it's still moronic.  Hiding crap in invisible spots in the ground only works when your method of uncovering them is fast and is not limited by ammunition.

I wouldn't call grinding for Nightmare Souls and forcing you to reload saved games to save a corrupted Reploid here and there "perfected", but it's a little better than how X5 handled it. And as rewarding as that secret info cutscene was, inadvertently collecting 3000 souls to get it--and then removing High Max from the secret areas--wasn't the best way to do it.
No gaming perfectionist expects to not grind or hit the reset button occasionally.  As far as killed Reploids go, most of them don't hold anything.  For practical purposes the only things at risk are Speedster, D. Converter, one Life Up (out of 16), and one Energy Up (out of 8 ).  None of that is vital, nor does it come CLOSE to the amount of crap that is absolutely impossible to obtain in X5.  As for rank, PA rank is perfectly reasonable to clear the game with and I hit it today by my fifth investigator (it helps to know Dynamo's weakness, but I hadn't deliberately camped him).  

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Isn't defense merely a factor who rescues more Reploids and collect life-ups with?
Nope.  Any of X's armors reduce his damage by half (besides Shadow they also reduce his weapon energy consumption by 1/4).  Zero (red) takes the same damage as unarmored X.  If you want to counter that, you have to blow a slot on the Shock Buffer part.

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Also, Zero's Z-buster is stronger than X's standard buster while X's saber is much weaker than Zero's. Sure, you can only fire the Z-buster when you're standing, but you can still take out a wider range of enemies in midair in a single swipe of the Z-saber than X can, making short work of mid-bosses and the like, so it hardly matters.
The Z-Buster is awesome, but it is also situational.  It specializes either against bosses (kinda like the Gaea buster) or at point-blank range (where it would otherwise have been redundant with the saber).  For distance attacks against standard enemies, it's actually rather weak.

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The saber does like 5-10 hits of chip damage whereas X does 1-2.
So Zero's better with the saber than X, shocker.

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Oh, and get this: the Z-buster is devastating against High Max, whereas the X-buster only manages to stun him. Evidently just hitting him with Zero's saber is enough to do damage to him, whereas X's doesn't even do damage. Same deal with the Blade Armor. How [tornado fang]ing retarded is that? So you can't even blame me for fighting High-Max with regular X (and even if you did, I'd point you to the name of the game).
You need to actually test this stuff before you go spouting it off.  As either character, High Max must be stunned first, then damaged (unless in the secret-routes battle he is low on health and uses his spread-shot, then you can skip stunning him).  As X, you stun with the charged buster, then damage with a special weapon.  As Zero, you stun with a special weapon, then damage with a normal attack (although the Ensuizan can count as both, it still has to hit twice).

X has quite a few methods of putting High Max to shame in ways that Zero is nowhere near capable of (and even the Z-Buster only works if you stun him at ground level, which is not always possible, and generally more trouble than it's worth).  Mach Dash and Guard Shell for one, bizarre as it is.  Shadow Armor's charged saber wails on him as it does pretty much everybody, and High Max is absolutely WRECKED by the Nova Strike (and I know what you're thinking, everybody is, but High Max is about as weak to it as Metal Man is to his own weapon).

"Vanilla" X is also able to bypass High Max's shield in the Gate's Lab fight by firing point-blank, something that Falcon and Blade armors are not capable of.

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I'd much rather just use vanilla X with some parts equipped, but clearly the game doesn't want me to do that, because certain stages require greater mobility than he's capable of in order for me to progress and not die. Central Museum is one example. The least they could've done is just given the air dash to regular X and scrapped the Falcon Armor altogether, but they decided to wait until X8 to do that.

I mean, besides the game being called Mega Man X. That reasoning is just a step away from being the optional unlockable. >.>
Falcon X is still X.  You're supposed to be familiar with what you're up against before you forsake what was given to you at the title screen.  If you're not, and it bites you in the ass, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

There is not a single obstacle in the entire game that cannot be cleared with unarmored X, you just need to know what weapons and parts are best used to compensate for the lack of armor.

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And the general game design. They do literally throw [parasitic bomb] at you that you couldn't have possibly seen coming.

If it's not unfair, it's probably just put there to have no effect but annoy and frustrate you, despite your best efforts. Those [tornado fang]ing mosquitos, man. During Blaze Heatnix's stage, no less. And how about that stupid blackout rave party effect? [tornado fang] the Nightmare System.
The Nightmare System is annoying as hell, but it's also predictable and easily manipulated.

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You can't even beat the game with just X because of how the Gate stages are designed
XD
You, sir, surprise me.  I thought one as stubborn as yourself would be more determined than that.  There is NO REASON you should not be able to clear Gate's Lab unarmored.  I've done it, and I never once played any mode BUT Xtreme, so if you're looking for bragging rights, you have a ways to go.

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Make that thread. Right now. I want to read it.
An 8-boss teleporter room with absolutely no health restores.  X6 was never that crazy.

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Offline Police Girl

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Reply #237 on: February 27, 2012, 12:11:23 AM
Yes, Zero and Axl have Air dash by default, but they dont get armors. X does. And they have to do things. X1 gave him dash, X2-4 gave him air dash, X5 and 6 evolved and gave free flight and a multidirectional mach dash, (which lets you hover in mid air until you let go of the button) but X7 which gave him air dash by default, went backwards and gave him a not so great glide, and X8 just gave him a higher jump, and a shadow dash.

I might be the minority here, but I would personally like to see either the Mach Dash or X3's Vertical Air Dash return, Mach Dash probably more since it was a lot more useable than the PSX Air Dash.
X4's Armor also gave us a rather worthless hover move that lasted for 2 seconds.



Offline Sigma Zero X

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Reply #238 on: February 27, 2012, 12:22:21 AM
As far as Megaman X8's soundtrack goes, I really like it because it sounds excellent.  Me loving rock and metal music makes the soundtrack more meaningful.  I like Real Sigma's theme, Lumine's second form boss song, Paradise Lost, Jakob, Vile's boss theme , Angry Boss, and the ride armor theme at Pandamonium's stage the most.

Yeti's stage is worse, it has a bunch of crappy ways to die, and you NEED both characters to survive if you want that armor piece (Zero and X)

why do you have to get killed for touching a wall? why cant they just move you over a bit when you hit it? (like when the Stingray ship appears the 2nd time)

Finally someone besides me who says that Yeti's stage is harder than Manowar's.  I can beat Manowar's as long as I have weapon chips equipped and it is very short (I usually beat it in less than a minute.)  For Yeti's stage on Hard, I had to use X and Alia because the shot ranges of Zero, Layer, Axl, and Pallette were too close.  X and Alia were versatile for having regular and charged shots.  I did not have a problem with dodging the obstacles though.

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Actually that started in X7, though its easy to forget since nobody plays that.

Actually, I still play Megaman X7.

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That is however something I am against. Mainly because the usual point of how X works is that he has little mobility, and requires his armors in order to gain extra mobility like the air dash. Having it from the start makes the leg parts obsolete without giving them better more creative functions, which X7 and 8 sort of failed at, since the glide was all sorts of stupid and giving you a shadow dash dont quite cut it.

I'll admit that the glide ability was not too useful, but it was effective against Ride Boarski's fierce ram attack at Crimson Palace on Hard, especially when he does it four times in a row while Boarski's health is low.

The Shadow Dash from X8 is definitely useless against physical contact, grounded attacks (e.g., Antonion's blocks or Trilobyte's Crystal Wall), and attacks from swords (e.g., Sigma's sword attacks).  However, it does help against projectile attacks and I can hold the dash button to make the invincibility last a little longer since X's dash is quite good.  Of course the timing is everything (which I am also good at doing.)

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I'm not even really sure what X8's leg parts do (I thought Shadow Dash was part of the Ultimate Armor.) so I can't really comment on that.

Foot Parts I allows X to jump higher.  It is a double-edged sword, but I managed it by tapping the jump button softly to jump lower or pressing the jump button harder to jump higher.

Foot Parts H allows X to move faster and have the "invincible" shadow dash (the shadow dash which I just discussed in this post as well.)

Foot Parts U (part of the Ultimate Armor) has all of the abilities of Foot Parts I and Foots Parts H.

"Well.  This is just delightful!" - Marino, from Mega Man X Command Mission


Offline Treleus

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Reply #239 on: February 27, 2012, 06:37:52 AM
Charged Crystal Wall is essentially Rush Search X, which I feel is one of the worst ideas to hit Mega Man.  It's somewhat less insulting in X8 because you're not relegating a whole character to such a useless and unwieldy function, but it's still moronic.  Hiding crap in invisible spots in the ground only works when your method of uncovering them is fast and is not limited by ammunition.

I wouldn't say that. If you look closely at the ground, you'll notice certain giveaways that tell you there's something buried in there.

No gaming perfectionist expects to not grind or hit the reset button occasionally.

Doesn't mean it should be built into the design! Especially to the degree that X6 does it.

Nope.  Any of X's armors reduce his damage by half (besides Shadow they also reduce his weapon energy consumption by 1/4).  Zero (red) takes the same damage as unarmored X.  If you want to counter that, you have to blow a slot on the Shock Buffer part.

I'm speaking from the perspective of unarmored X, so basically they're equal unless one collects more life-ups and Reploids with Life+ parts than the other. Doesn't Black Zero also increase Zero's defense?

The Z-Buster is awesome, but it is also situational.  It specializes either against bosses (kinda like the Gaea buster) or at point-blank range (where it would otherwise have been redundant with the saber).  For distance attacks against standard enemies, it's actually rather weak.

Point is it actually proves stronger at point-blank than X's. Even as much to damage High Max more than any other weapon.

So Zero's better with the saber than X, shocker.

My point is it could use some more chip damage hits.

You need to actually test this stuff before you go spouting it off.  As either character, High Max must be stunned first, then damaged (unless in the secret-routes battle he is low on health and uses his spread-shot, then you can skip stunning him).  As X, you stun with the charged buster, then damage with a special weapon.  As Zero, you stun with a special weapon, then damage with a normal attack (although the Ensuizan can count as both, it still has to hit twice).

Looks like I misremembered. Sorry about that.

That being said, the Ensuizan is thusly broken. And actually, so is the power of almost any of his techniques against High Max: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHCTEefO9SY&feature=related

Wow! I had to work way harder than that to beat High Max as unarmored X.

X has quite a few methods of putting High Max to shame in ways that Zero is nowhere near capable of (and even the Z-Buster only works if you stun him at ground level, which is not always possible, and generally more trouble than it's worth).

It's not as hard as you think, and well worth it.

Mach Dash and Guard Shell for one, bizarre as it is.  Shadow Armor's charged saber wails on him as it does pretty much everybody, and High Max is absolutely WRECKED by the Nova Strike (and I know what you're thinking, everybody is, but High Max is about as weak to it as Metal Man is to his own weapon).

I'm gonna discount armors gained by cheat codes, but you're right. Shadow Armor's charged hit makes the fight a joke. Even moreso than with Zero. It's almost like using his Z-buster in midair, just less powerful. The Blade Armor doesn't compare.

"Vanilla" X is also able to bypass High Max's shield in the Gate's Lab fight by firing point-blank, something that Falcon and Blade armors are not capable of.

So I've discovered. 6 charged shots to breach his shield, which isn't saying much compared to the Shadow Armor's charged saber or even the Blade Armor's phase-through-matter shot followed by a Flame Sword wave. Nevertheless, I just managed to get through Gate Lab 2 (crossing that normally impassable pit by using the oldest trick in the book) and hand both High Max and Gate their asses with unarmored X. After much repetition, but victorious nonetheless.

Falcon X is still X.  You're supposed to be familiar with what you're up against before you forsake what was given to you at the title screen.  If you're not, and it bites you in the ass, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

I'm not interested in using dumbed down, rehashed armors from previous games, and I'm not excusing the game giving regular X certain handicaps.

There is not a single obstacle in the entire game that cannot be cleared with unarmored X, you just need to know what weapons and parts are best used to compensate for the lack of armor.

Again, so I've found out. I still had to cheat to get to High Max, but it's a time-honored cheat in Mega Man lore.

The Nightmare System is annoying as hell, but it's also predictable and easily manipulated.

How do you manipulate your way through darkened areas or render those mosquitos helplessly benign?

XD
You, sir, surprise me.  I thought one as stubborn as yourself would be more determined than that.  There is NO REASON you should not be able to clear Gate's Lab unarmored.  I've done it, and I never once played any mode BUT Xtreme, so if you're looking for bragging rights, you have a ways to go.

Oh, I've earned my bragging right. I just had to cheat, and you probably did too. Got the helmet part for the Shadow Armor the same way.

An 8-boss teleporter room with absolutely no health restores.  X6 was never that crazy.

Is that all?

I might be the minority here, but I would personally like to see either the Mach Dash or X3's Vertical Air Dash return, Mach Dash probably more since it was a lot more useable than the PSX Air Dash.
X4's Armor also gave us a rather worthless hover move that lasted for 2 seconds.

Seconded. We may be in the minority, but we're better.

I'd like the Mach Dash more if you didn't stop in mid-air and you couldn't trigger it like a double jump. Reason for the former is so the developer doesn't get the idea of making an obstacle traversable only by the Mach Dash and only with pixel-perfect accuracy. Reason for the latter is because it's jarring.

HX in the ZX games perfected how air-dashing should feel. I wonder why it took them so long.



Offline Flame

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Reply #240 on: February 27, 2012, 09:35:37 AM
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How do you manipulate your way through darkened areas or render those mosquitos helplessly benign?

By doing a different stage beforehand.

The blinds are Mijinion's nightmare effect, and the fleas... I have no idea. Go to another stage and clear/leave it. (possibly only clearing it works, not sure)

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Da Dood

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Reply #241 on: February 27, 2012, 03:04:25 PM
The insects are Commander Yammark's effect.


Offline Align

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Reply #242 on: February 27, 2012, 09:35:33 PM
Just how does the effect work? I'm dumb and never looked closely enough to figure out the connection, apart from the more obvious randomly generated stage sections (what the [tornado fang] who thought that was a good idea??)
Basically after playing some given stage, a specific effect appears in stages that are marked in red?



Offline Da Dood

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Reply #243 on: February 27, 2012, 09:57:21 PM
Yeah, every stage has one Nightmare effect that affects generally two other stages. When you beat Shield Sheldon's level, for example, it'll trigger X/Zero hologram enemies in two other stages (marked red on the area select screen). The holograms will replace whatever other effect that was happening in those stages before you visited Shield's.

Every stage is affected by more than one Nightmare effect, so you can manipulate the system to deal with the less painful effects.


Offline Karasai♪

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Reply #244 on: February 27, 2012, 10:40:44 PM
What are the nightmare effects for all stages anyways?

the only ones i know are...

Heatnix & Sheldoner - Dragonflies
Turtloid, Yammark & Minjion - Light problem



Offline Align

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Reply #245 on: February 27, 2012, 11:21:52 PM
Do the effects go away once they're not marked in red or do they stay once toggled on?



Offline Da Dood

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Reply #246 on: February 27, 2012, 11:54:44 PM
Pretty sure they stay on until you change them somewhere else.

Yammark's effect is insects (affects Heatnix and Sheldon)
Heatnix's effect is fireballs (affects Wolfang and Mijinion)
Sheldon's effect is holograms (affects Wolfang and Turtloid)
Wolfang's effect is icy floor (affects Metal Shark)
Turtloid's effect is rain (affects Yammark and Scaravich)
Metal Shark's effect is metal blocks (affects Heatnix, Mijinion and Scaravich)
Mijinion's effect is the stupid spotlight (affects Yammark and Turtloid)
Scaravich's effect is the weird colored blocks (affects Metal Shark and Sheldon)


Offline Treleus

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Reply #247 on: February 28, 2012, 12:24:08 AM
And they can all be destroyed by their respective Maverick weapons ...

Not that you'd know "mosquito" translates to "Use Yammar Option" or "metallic block" translates to "Metal Anchor", so it's still pure guesswork. I figured the game was [tornado fang]ing with me when there was a metallic block obstructing the very small corridor leading up to the Shadow Armor part. Eventually I came upon the Metal Anchor and got through, so I didn't ended up bashing my head into the television.



Offline Karasai♪

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Reply #248 on: February 28, 2012, 01:09:59 AM
Heatnix's effect is fireballs (affects Mijinion)
Wolfang's effect is icy floor (affects Metal Shark)
Turtloid's effect is rain (affects Yammark)

Hmmm, I've never had these happen before....



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Reply #249 on: February 28, 2012, 01:45:11 AM
IMO X6 was a bit too ambitious with what it wanted to do. I recall they originally wanted the Nightmare system to randomize stage layout didnt they? In the end, they ended up with minor stage alterations and gimmicks. kinda sad. Imagine the game actually altering stage layouts more radically, or actually making random level designs? [parasitic bomb] would be awesome. Though im not sure just how possible that even is.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.