What does Hideki Kamiya know about Rockman DASH?

[Jericho]

> Legends
> Vanquish Gameplay + Dungeon Crawling a la previous DASH entries
> Success

Fixed.

[Acid]

Using shoulder buttons to move around in this day and age is not just unrealistic, it would be idiotic for anyone with two brain cells to rub on each other.

Nothing against you, but that's one of the dumbest [tornado fang]ing things I have ever read in my life.

[Bueno Excelente]

Nothing against you, but that's one of the dumbest [tornado fang]ing things I have ever read in my life.

Would you be so kind to explain this? Because honestly, nostalgia isn't enough of a reason to pick up a SERIOUSLY aged control scheme that's worse than the old Tomb Raider games in terms of fast movement unuseability. Why in the hell would Capcom reuse the old movement style, ALONG with the [tornado fang]ing dumb turning-by-triggers when they can simply use the system all third-person shooters use nowadays, which is intuitive, and you don't need to carefully position yourself one or two steps to the right just because the [tornado fang]ing controls take seconds to make a single turn.

[AquaTeamV3]

I'm still confused as to how you're having trouble with the control scheme.  Not only can you turn while running (streamlining things greatly), you can also do a quick turn with the circle button.  Rolling is pretty much the best evasive maneuver in the franchise, giving you large invincibility frames that really do wonders in boss fights.

[Bueno Excelente]

I'm still confused as to how you're having trouble with the control scheme.  Not only can you turn while running (streamlining things greatly), you can also do a quick turn with the circle button.  Rolling is pretty much the best evasive maneuver in the franchise, giving you large invincibility frames that really do wonders in boss fights.

WHOOOOA. You can TURN while running? Man, that's a total movement revolution. Who needs quick intuitive controls that all games use nowadays when you got [parasitic bomb] like THAT?

[xnamkcor]

There's always re-assigning the triggers to left and right on the stick.

[Bueno Excelente]

There's always re-assigning the triggers to left and right on the stick.

Finding excuses to make a bad control system slightly better does not replace the need for today's control scheme on a possible new Legends.

[AquaTeamV3]

"Bad" is pretty subjective.  It's one thing if you don't like the system, but complaining when the game clearly offers a solution to it (changing the controls) seems pointless.  I'd be perfectly fine if Capcom just included both control methods in a new game.

[M[u]ddy]

Finding excuses to make a bad control system slightly better does not replace the need for today's control scheme on a possible new Legends.

It's not like you have to manually reassign buttons. There are 3 control schemes you can select:
A: "Tank Controls"(for some reason default)
B: "Normal Controls"
C: "PSP Friendly Controls" (no L2 and R2)

[xnamkcor]

Finding excuses to make a bad control system slightly better does not replace the need for today's control scheme on a possible new Legends.

Today's control scheme is outdated. We need a better one.

[Bueno Excelente]

"Bad" is pretty subjective.  It's one thing if you don't like the system, but complaining when the game clearly offers a solution to it (changing the controls) seems pointless.  I'd be perfectly fine if Capcom just included both control methods in a new game.

For nowadays' controls, YES, it's bad. Controllers have evolved, and so have games. No other game ever used any kind of control like this, simply because it doesn't work anymore. With any game with quick reactions, fast enemies and other kind of hazards, dual analog stick control plus one dodge button works fine.

u]ddy link=topic=5254.msg281610#msg281610 date=1284846533]
It's not like you have to manually reassign buttons. There are 3 control schemes you can select:
A: "Tank Controls"(for some reason default)
B: "Normal Controls"
C: "PSP Friendly Controls" (no L2 and R2)

AGAIN, none of those would work well in the least with a recent game, and with a new Legends game, unless they go 32-bit retro, you shouldn't expect old controls, or the game would be seriously awful.

Today's control scheme is outdated. We need a better one.

This is so [tornado fang]ing stupid I'm not even gonna bother with typing a good answer. Mind explaining your logic, genius?

[AquaTeamV3]

Controllers have evolved, and so have games

Well, if it's released for the PS3, it'll have the exact same controller.  I honestly haven't played many new games at all sans Wii (old-schooler here), but if the control scheme worked on the PSX, why wouldn't it work on PS3?  As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[Bueno Excelente]

Well, if it's released for the PS3, it'll have the exact same controller.  I honestly haven't played many new games at all sans Wii (old-schooler here), but if the control scheme worked on the PSX, why wouldn't it work on PS3?  As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

...

...you people are trolling me, right? You people are certainly making me the fool in some kind of twisted online candid camera just to get my reaction. Because there is no way anyone on Earth is this dumb.

[Protoman Blues]

Because there is no way anyone on Earth is this dumb.

Always make sure to check your grammar and sentence structure before your insults. 

I think what they are trying to say is that while yes, they can update the control scheme with better controls, there's no reason why they can't include the older Legends controls Legends fans are use to. The controller, being the physical DualShock thingy that you hold in your hands, is the same controller that Legends 2 used. It's no different than Halo offering the vastly superior "Legacy" controls for their games.

[Bueno Excelente]

Always make sure to check your grammar and sentence structure before your insults. 

I think what they are trying to say is that while yes, they can update the control scheme with better controls, there's no reason why they can't include the older Legends controls Legends fans are use to. The controller, being the physical DualShock thingy that you hold in your hands, is the same controller that Legends 2 used. It's no different than Halo offering the vastly superior "Legacy" controls for their games.

Unless the game is made exactly like the old ones, which were limited due to hardware limitations of the time, no, it will NOT be like it. [parasitic bomb] like lock-on and turning with the triggers , as well as maze like dungeons with samey textures are a thing of the past, of the 32-bit age. People aim up and down as well as left and right nowadays. And a lock-on seriously isn't the way to deal with a game where you have to be turned to your enemy at all times. That would be like making a current-generation first person shooter with ABXY as turning controls. It would be STUPID, because we have analogs that work better, and just because Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were good games, it doesn't mean their controls aren't clunky as [tornado fang] nowadays.

So seriously? If anyone wants a current Legends game to be well-paced and good in quality, they gotta stop being nostalgic for the [tornado fang]ing control scheme. Otherwise, IF that control scheme was indeed an option, they'd have to scale back the rest of the damn game so using analog controls would slow the action down to a crawl and would make it TOO DAMN EASY. There's a reason controls evolved. Because they're easier and more logical to use that way, giving place to better games with more fast-paced action. I want to play a Legends game where enemies pop out from everywhere and shoot at me the way enemies are supposed to shoot. I don't want to have to turn to one slowly, then lock-on it, fire, then turn back to the other one and lock-on to it as well. I want to do it intuitively, the way ANYONE could do it nowadays. Pick up the damn Lost Planet engine and replace the models and some physics. There, that's your Legends 3.

[The Great Gonzo]

Sir, you may have some good points amidst all that ranting, but getting all explosive like this is making you look like an [dark hold].

[Acid]

I just love our board's censorship.

[Protoman Blues]

Unless the game is made exactly like the old ones, which were limited due to hardware limitations of the time, no, it will NOT be like it. [parasitic bomb] like lock-on and turning with the triggers , as well as maze like dungeons with samey textures are a thing of the past, of the 32-bit age. People aim up and down as well as left and right nowadays. And a lock-on seriously isn't the way to deal with a game where you have to be turned to your enemy at all times. That would be like making a current-generation first person shooter with ABXY as turning controls. It would be STUPID, because we have analogs that work better, and just because Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were good games, it doesn't mean their controls aren't clunky as [tornado fang] nowadays.

There's a difference between gameplay & control scheme. You're suggesting turning Legends into a game where you do aim up and all that fun stuff, instead of the lock-on type play that the Legends games had. That's different than saying they should change the control scheme, and based on what I've read, people are assuming a Legends game would be that type of gameplay. So that's different.

Also yes, the ABXY turning control wouldn't work because of the 2nd Analog being more useful for it. But the Halo "LEGACY" control scheme is just an updated version of it. The gameplay is still the same for the most part.

So seriously? If anyone wants a current Legends game to be well-paced and good in quality, they gotta stop being nostalgic for the [tornado fang]ing control scheme. Otherwise, IF that control scheme was indeed an option, they'd have to scale back the rest of the damn game so using analog controls would slow the action down to a crawl and would make it TOO DAMN EASY. There's a reason controls evolved. Because they're easier and more logical to use that way, giving place to better games with more fast-paced action. I want to play a Legends game where enemies pop out from everywhere and shoot at me the way enemies are supposed to shoot. I don't want to have to turn to one slowly, then lock-on it, fire, then turn back to the other one and lock-on to it as well. I want to do it intuitively, the way ANYONE could do it nowadays. Pick up the damn Lost Planet engine and replace the models and some physics. There, that's your Legends 3.

And again, gameplay vs. control scheme comes up again. So no need to comment on that aspect further.

Also, you might want to play a Legends game like that, but that doesn't mean other Legends fans don't. It's funny how personal preference works like that.

And finally...

I want to do it intuitively, the way ANYONE could do it nowadays. Pick up the damn Lost Planet engine and replace the models and some physics. There, that's your Legends 3.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, you're complaining about fans & companies who hang onto older game styles, outdated controls schemes, and constantly talk about improvement, yet you're suggesting that Capcom simply use the Lost Planet engine for Legends 3 instead of actually trying something new? LoL, that sounds like a Most Excellent Contradiction! 

I just love our board's censorship.

One day I'll update it! 

[Zan]

Can't we just say Capcom would use Lost Planet as a basis for DASH3 and be done with it?

[Acid]

One day I'll update it! 

It's fine the way it is!

Can't we just say Capcom would use Lost Planet as a basis for DASH3 and be done with it?

Didn't Inafune even state explicitly that he'd use the LP engine? So yeah, let's do it.

[Bueno Excelente]

There's a difference between gameplay & control scheme. You're suggesting turning Legends into a game where you do aim up and all that fun stuff, instead of the lock-on type play that the Legends games had. That's different than saying they should change the control scheme, and based on what I've read, people are assuming a Legends game would be that type of gameplay. So that's different.

Also yes, the ABXY turning control wouldn't work because of the 2nd Analog being more useful for it. But the Halo "LEGACY" control scheme is just an updated version of it. The gameplay is still the same for the most part.

And again, gameplay vs. control scheme comes up again. So no need to comment on that aspect further.

Also, you might want to play a Legends game like that, but that doesn't mean other Legends fans don't. It's funny how personal preference works like that.

And finally...

Unless I'm reading this wrong, you're complaining about fans & companies who hang onto older game styles, outdated controls schemes, and constantly talk about improvement, yet you're suggesting that Capcom simply use the Lost Planet engine for Legends 3 instead of actually trying something new? LoL, that sounds like a Most Excellent Contradiction! 

One day I'll update it! 

...I'm saying the old gameplay was suited to the game's old design, which was limited by the hardware.

...update Legends' graphics and release it today. It'll get [parasitic bomb] ratings because it's a limited game for the time we live in. A Legends game nowadays would have to up the ante considerably in terms of pretty much everything, starting with the 3D movement.

[Zan]

Didn't Inafune even state explicitly that he'd use the LP engine? So yeah, let's do it.

They've been saying from the very beginning they designed Lost Planet with DASH3 in mind.

[Acid]

They've been saying from the very beginning they designed Lost Planet with DASH3 in mind.

Which brings me back on topic:

If Inafune and Capcom were preparing MML3, how come Kamiya teases us now?

[Protoman Blues]

...I'm saying the old gameplay was suited to the game's old design, which was limited by the hardware.

...update Legends' graphics and release it today. It'll get [parasitic bomb] ratings because it's a limited game for the time we live in. A Legends game nowadays would have to up the ante considerably in terms of pretty much everything, starting with the 3D movement.

Yessss. This is what I was pointing out!  You were simultaneously arguing both game play & control scheme, not directly responding to one single argument over the other, and thus your argument got all silly willy.  

They've been saying from the very beginning they designed Lost Planet with DASH3 in mind.

Could Lost Planet just be a cover up and secret plot to gain enough popularity for Legends 3?

Which brings me back on topic:

If Inafune and Capcom were preparing MML3, how come Kamiya teases us now?

...He's a dick?

[Phi]

Which brings me back on topic:

If Inafune and Capcom were preparing MML3, how come Kamiya teases us now?

Perhaps they were still at a conceptual stage. They most likely experimented a variety of times to actually find a solid design/control that worked for the franchise.

I don't think MML3 would be carbon copy of Lost Planet's control scheme.