Topic: Musings - What Makes X Different From Rockman?

[Zan]

Well I wanna discuss it NOW!

"Word of God" disagrees with you.

From X-compendium:
CONNECTION TO OTHER WORKS
The setting of Rockman X is established about 100 years after the world of Rockman. It seems that after Dr. Light built Rockman, he developed X as a still more advanced version. Also, someone resembling Wily can be glimpsed in Zero’s vicinity.

I mean, it seems to me that if Wily can make the MM9 robots up and say "geez, the humans are wrong ... we CAN still be usefull" and MM to say "geez, I guess I don't really reason with robots, I am no better than Wily's being" then, even though Capcom says X thinks on a deeper level, I don't think that nessasarily holds up.  I can't talk too much of the X series, my intrest / knowledge is spotty, but I do recall Alia having some mixed feelings about Gate.  Not that she turned rogue, but she had mixed feelings.

I'd say a good place to start would be IHX, that alone is a grand example of the entire concept of X's worrying. All the other games simply put focus on it by talking about how X's compassion is over the top and how he might be fit to one day guide the world to unite humans and Repliroids. Then there's the manga, which also hits you over the head with the concept.  Whilst X worries much deeper than others, it doesn't stop others from worrying alltogether. All Repliroids are after all based on X.

There are however also Repliroids that barely worry at all, but they have the ability to determine right and wrong for oneself, even if highly biased thoughts come from them. Sigma himself barely worries, barely hesitates, barely has any compassion to speak of. The same counts for VAVA and Sigma's new generation.

When you consider it this way, X's heightened worrying leads to over the top compassion for all living beings, Sigma's lack of worrying makes him a psychopath. Regular Repliroids are in the middle, just normal people, neither saints nor demons.

All of the above are capable of determining right and wrong because they have "Kunou Kairo" (suffering, distress, affliction, anguish, agony circuit) installed. That circuit is one target for the Sigma Virus to control the "heart", by changing their views of right and wrong, their allegiance changes. It's just that the how well it functions changes the effects visible on the outside. Ranging from Sigma to X.

When compared to the older robots, who never had X's circuit, it's obvious that these robots are not psychopaths like Sigma, they have something else installed to avoid that. Between those robots and Repliroids, all have "Shikou Kairo" -thought- circuits, which allow for independent thought and reasoning.

The key difference between those robots and Repliroids is "Ryoushin Kairo" versus "Kunou Kairo", the conscience circuit verses mental suffering circuit. Because Rock has a strong sense of justice, his Conscience yields similar results to X's worrying. Both are circuits with the explicit function of creating a conscience.  Between regular robots, who have less of a sense of justice, and regular Repliroids, who worry much less than X, the results are also comparable.

Looking at the definition for both circuits, the only thing that pops out is the inability of the conscience circuit to invoke growth of the conscience, growth of their views of right and wrong. That's where X's circuit is the huge improvement. It sheds away the final limitation in the ability to truly be free by allowing variability in the conscience.

Rock thinks within the confines of the conscience Dr. Right programmed him to have. X's conscience can evolve away from the conscience that Dr. Right programmed him to have. This growth is subtle, but to Dr. Right, it marks a new epoch in robotics where robots can truly be equel to 'people'. Giving robots that ability is what stops the humans from considering robots as just tools and much more as equals. Rock might act just as much as a person as X, but to the humans that created him that are aware of his limitations as a robot, that alone is justification to consider him just a tool to be used and thrown away. When they become aware that these robots will adjust their views of right and wrong, humanity will be far more cautious to simply deem them as tools, even though unavoidable, some still will.

If someone programmed a robot to know absolutely in its conscience that "killing is wrong" then a robot with a Kunou Kairo installed can come to the conclusion of its own accord, given time, that "killing is right." The keyword in Repliroids is "evolution", their conscience can evolve, their body can evolve. Previous robots were able to evolve their thought patterns and personality, but not their "conscience" and "bodies." That's where X and the Repliroids are different.

The effects might not be as profound as you want it to be, but still it is there. That this effect isn't as pronounced as it can be shows without a doubt how close to the holy grail of free willed robots the robots Right made were from the very beginning. Those robots were 99% of the way there, X and all Repliroids just fill in the final 1% of the equation.

Emphasizing once more: thought and reasoning is the same, the key difference lies with the conscience.

"X" IS THE FIRST OF A NEW GENERATION OF ROBOTS WHICH CONTAIN AN INNOVATIVE NEW FEATURE - THE ABILITY TO THINK, FEEL AND MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS."  This statement is total BS.  Now X's ability to worry without thinking humans or robots are superior is considered to be what is different, but this is a retcon.  The first reason they gave us it definately BS.

DR. LIGHT: I granted X special powers that no other robot possesses. Utilizing his conscience, he is able to think, worry and act entirely of his own accord.

Dr. Right says something similar in IHX, so as you can see, it isn't bullshit, it's simply an oversimplification and if you actually look at the japanese subtitled X1 warning, it's partially a mistranslation on Japan's part.

Furthermore, I can not stress enough that X's ability to worry is NOT a retcon! It's included in the very first game's manual! THREE versions of the same text are included within the very same package you would have bought 15 years ago!

-----------------

Version1, English RockmanX game warning:
"X" IS THE FIRST OF A NEW
GENERATION OF ROBOTS WHICH
CONTAIN AN INNOVATIVE NEW
FEATURE - THE ABILITY TO
THINK, FEEL AND MAKE THEIR
OWN DECISIONS. HOWEVER THIS
ABILITY COULD BE VERY DAN-
GEROUS. IF "X" WERE TO BREAK
THE FIRST RULE OF ROBOTICS,
 "A ROBOT MUST NEVER HARM
A HUMAN BEING", THE RESULTS
WOULD BE DISASTROUS AND I
FEAR THAT NO FORCE ON EARTH
COULD STOP HIM.

APPROXIMATELY 30 YEARS WILL
BE REQUIRED BEFORE WE CAN
SAFELY CONFIRM  HIS RELI-
ABILITY. UNFORTUNATELY I WILL
NOT LIVE TO SEE THAT DAY,
NOR DO I HAVE ANYONE TO
CARRY ON MY WORK. THEREFORE,
I HAVE DECIDED TO SEAL HIM
IN THIS CAPSULE, WHICH WILL
TEST HIS INTERNAL SYSTEMS
UNTIL HIS RELIABILITY HAS
BEEN CONFIRMED. PLEASE DO
NOT DISTURB THE CAPSULE
UNTIL THAT TIME.

"X" POSSESSES GREAT RISKS
AS WELL AS GREAT POSSIBILI-
TIES. I CAN ONLY HOPE FOR
THE BEST.

        SEPTEMBER 18, 20XX
                   T.RIGHT


-----------------

Version2, Japanese RockmanX game Warning:
“X” is a new type of robot with more complex, human-like mental capabilities. However, these capabilities are also extremely dangerous. If “X,” of his own volition, ever broke the basic law of robotics, “A robot must not injure a human,” likely nothing could stop him, and the results would be fearsome.

If I had 30 years, it would be possible to confirm his safety. However, my life will not last that long, and there is no one to whom I can entrust my research. Therefore I will seal him in this capsule. This capsule will test his internal structure for me until his safety is confirmed. Until then, please do not open the capsule.

“X” is laden with both unlimited possibility and unlimited danger. I just hope it turns out for the best.

20XX 9/18 Thomas Light


-----------------

Version3, Japanese RockmanX manual warning:
“X” presents many problems inconceivable in existing robots. There is a danger he may worry over or question even the absolute requirement for robots, “Do not harm a human.”

The act of worrying in “X” marks a new epoch in robotics and is the first time this experiment has succeeded, but if it extends to matters that by their nature must not be questioned, it would be disastrous. In the worst case, if a robot were to harm humans deliberately, humankind would tremble with fear the like of which was unknown even in the days of the “Dr. Wily” incidents…

I conclude that “X” is an extremely dangerous being. If I am to send “X” out into the world, he must have a verification period of 30 years at the least. However, I do not have that long to live, and regrettably there is no one who understands all my research to carry it on for me.

Therefore I seal “X” here. If by some chance there is someone who discovers this capsule, as long as “X’s” thinking has not been fully analyzed, please leave him untouched. “X” is a robot laden with both unlimited possibility and unlimited danger…

Sep. 18 AD20XX
T. Right

-----------------

Because these are games meant for ACTION, the plot presentation of the game's was minimized, good portions of the story come from the game manuals and the subsequence guidebooks. The much more in depth warning in the manual is meant to be the version that's the most accurate and deep, and was thus even included in X-compendium more than a decade later. That extended warning was even written BEFORE the journal of Dr. Cain ever made it in any of the manuals. That journal was initially written for MEGAmanX and then adapted for the ROCKmanX pc port to be included in the X-compendium a decade later.

So, why do we, who often cite things like Cain's journal from the manual as being part of how the series from the day 1, go around claiming the concept of "worrying" is a retcon when it even precedes that infamous journal? If there's anything, it's our lack of info as people that can only speak English and are reliant on Capcom of America's localizations, that's at fault.

See, Bass just feeling an obligation to Wily isn't quite enough for me to accept that he sees humanity as a whole as superior.  Even his line of "but humans made us" doesn't really say superior.  It could say "superior", but it could also say "eaqual".  He never treats Wily as his superior.  And doesn't try to be useful to mankind.  Okay, he displays obligation to Wily.  But obligation and superiority are two different things.

You're taking "bias" to be absolutely one extremely over the other, it's not so extreme, it's all about subtlety again. X's circuits are meant to provoke complete non bias by constantly forcing growth of his conscience to acquire that exact 50-50 equality for all races and individuals to judge solely on actions. For previous robots there's no growth, so their bias, which can never be exact equality, is always the same. In certain situations they will favor a human over a robot, one individual over another, or vice versa. They're simply stuck with whatever conscience they have been given by their creator, no matter what the contents of these consciences actually contain. To establish true equality of judgment in such a static system, is akin to an impossibility.

[Hypershell]

So, basically, the robots are unable to distinguish between the laws human governments create .... and what one human is telling them is in their best interests?  As long as it comes from a human's mouth it's all fine?

As I believe Zan told you at some point, you're looking for an extreme where there is none.  It's not a law of "thou shalts", it's a programmed bias that influences their own decision making.  Pre-X robots do not consider themselves to be of equal "value" as humans, that doesn't mean they don't think.

I had to very recently discuss a key point with Zan on MM9: The robots did *NOT* commit to an uprising of their own will.  That was Wily's doing.  They asked Wily to "repair" them so that they could continue to be useful to the humans, his ideal opportunity to modify them for his own purposes (note the evil grin when he agrees, and the RMs joining Light after the game, clearly foul play was involved).  Despite their disagreeing with the law their favoritism towards humanity still stands, more on that later.

King is actively rebelling against humanity, but he's just lying.  And Wily's other robots under no illusions are still helping ONE human so they aren't actually rebelling against humanity even if they are fighting to bring down the entire world.

I have no idea what it is you find odd about Wily's robots being programmed as Wily sees fit.  Why SHOULDN'T Wily program King to favor robots if it all fits into his scheme?  Why SHOULDN'T Wily program his robots to favor him over other humans?

The bias towards humans is not a technological limit, it is the standard by which the robots are programmed.  That standard can be broken by anyone, but due to risks which Light outlined in his capsule warnings, good luck trying to get such work to be accepted.

This is opposed to X who, if he ever rebelled against humanity, would ACTUALLY be able to rebel against humanity because he's totally neutral.  Even tho he never actually does rebel against humanity.

The fact that X approved and assisted in assassinating the leader whom all humans but one in the entire world worshipped doesn't mean anything to you?

Lack the ability or ... just the will?  Because there's a HUGE difference of the thought not coming into their heads and just not having the heart to go through with it.  Obviously they were unhappy with being disgarded.  Wily didn't have to twist their arms to get them to disobey human laws in order to continue to exist.

To continue to exist, because (emphasis added):
"We still want to be of use to people. Can you repair us?"

Which is followed by:

*close-up of Dr. Wily, grinning*
Dr. Wily:"I'd be glad to. You're in good hands with me!"

I shouldn't have to spell that out for you.  You honestly think Wily isn't doing anything crooked while he has the robots on his maintenance bed?  You may as well be trusting Albert with your Biometal repairs.

For the ability or the will:  Can they conceive of it?  Of course they can, they can think.  Will they do it?  No way, because to them, it's just not the way things are done.

I maintain that Capcom's official answer is BS.

That's because your entire argument is based around taking extremes where there is no need to, to say nothing of the unfortunate lapse of information across regions which Zan outlined above.

[The Great Gonzo]

In Gauntlet's defense, Capcom's "story consistency" record isn't very good. Just look at the clusterfuck that is X's canon X6 and on.

[Hypershell]

There's a difference between recognizing a contradiction of fact, and picking apart interpretation to attempt to invalidate an otherwise feasible scenario.

That and claiming such screwups are new to X6 is an extremely fanboyish bias.  I will point that in X5 Zero dies from a BOSS EXPLOSION (which he has survived dozens of times over) with no regard whatsoever to how his proximity to it compares to X's.  I'm not sure by what logic a direct retcon such as changing 3 years into 3 weeks (although if you want to get into technicalities, that aspect of the ending could be worked into the "unused" fork in X6 of never finding Zero) is considered less acceptable than writing an event that doesn't even make any sense within its own immediate circumstances.

Also, try comparing the condition of X's body between scenes.

[Nexus]

There's a difference between recognizing a contradiction of fact, and picking apart interpretation to attempt to invalidate an otherwise feasible scenario.

That and claiming such screwups are new to X6 is an extremely fanboyish bias.  I will point that in X5 Zero dies from a BOSS EXPLOSION (which he has survived dozens of times over) with no regard whatsoever to how his proximity to it compares to X's.  I'm not sure by what logic a direct retcon such as changing 3 years into 3 weeks (although if you want to get into technicalities, that aspect of the ending could be worked into the "unused" fork in X6 of never finding Zero) is considered less acceptable than writing an event that doesn't even make any sense within its own immediate circumstances.

That and claiming such screwups are new to X6 is an extremely fanboyish bias.

extremely fanboyish bias

... Extreme or not, aren't we all fanboys/fangirls given that this is a ROCKMAN SITE? 

[Hypershell]

Let me rephrase that:

It is a grossly ignorant misconception, usually born out of fanboyism of Inafune coupled with an overreaction to an interview quote regarding the origins of MMZ that was taken out of context.

Happy now?

[Nexus]

Let me rephrase that:

It is a grossly ignorant misconception, usually born out of fanboyism of Inafune coupled with an out of context overreaction to an interview quote regarding the origins of MMZ.

Better! 

Anywho, I stopped trying to connect the X stuff years ago. X4 is almost like a stand-alone story, as is to a much smaller degree X3, and continuity has been disregarded quite often. X5 seemed like pretty much everyone but X, Zero, and Sigma no longer lived and instead we have a new cast of characters as flat as cardboard cutouts - at least Vile and Cain had some backstory, not counting Mac. The only new character that ever really gets any of that is Alia in X6, and even that's obscure. Hell, Axl is pretty much a walking enigma that was Naruto before we even had Naruto.

Then again, I suppose they could have flubbed up due to making games with so little story, and then jumping into making games while trying to add so much story. 

[The Great Gonzo]

I know that the X series did have its flubs before X6; it's just that, in my mind, X6 is when it became REALLY noticeable, even before MMZ.

Guess citing X6 in terms of how much Capcom really cares about story logic was stretching it.

[Zan]

X6's story is actually one of the best in the entire X-series. It's just badly understood by the fans because of the shoddy translation it was given. Aside from localization, the X-series generally suffers from the most important pieces of info not being presented in the games and only in manuals or other such books. For the rest, it's biggest inconsistency is in matters of story focus, actual inconsistencies in fact are few and far between.

[Hypershell]

Agreed, the translation blows, but the storyline itself was impressive.  One thing I liked was tying Alia into past events with Gate, which killed two birds with one stone.  One was giving Alia an actual character, since in X5 she came off as married to her work.  And the other was actually allowing a decent amount of info within the game itself, since she cues you in on the backstory behind each boss after all the butt-kicking is done and overwith.

And of course, Zero's encounter with Isoc was epic.

then X5 has Gaea and Falcon armor, which Light outright says are armors he made a long long time ago

Actually, that was the Gaea Armor specifically.  As I recall there was no such notion made towards the Falcon Armor.

As big a fan as I am of the X5 armors, the thought of a MM6 reference never occurred to me.  I always took the idea of Gaea being old as an explanation for its slowed dash, limited rapid-fire, and incompatibility with X's VWS.

[Flame]

I must agree with Zan. crappy game developmet has nothing to do with the story. it was rushed, very difficult, and not all the music was enjoyable, but the story was pretty good. It really went in depth into Gate's past and what happened to him, and what went on with him and Alia, the only problem i found with the story was references to events that never occured in other games, which left you feeling like you missed a game. especially since all the Mavericks save for maybe two, have some backstory to their deaths. and for a few, that Backstory is some big event that leaves you feeling like you missed something. the main culprit to that is  actually Sheldon IMO... with X saying like he was involved in this whole thing...
but maybe thats just me. actually, Gate s probably one if the ritchest characters in the series in terms of motives and backstory. Moreso than many others. you actually end up understanding what Gate feels like, and WHY he's doing what hes doing. You even feel sorry for him.

Posted on: December 14, 2008, 05:14:37 PM

Actually, that was the Gaea Armor specifically.  As I recall there was no such notion made towards the Falcon Armor.

it was just the Gaea armor, but if its based off of rush Power adpt. then you look at Falcon and see that it is more than likely based off of Jet adpt. with X5's reference full disc, its more than likely too. I mean, come on. the first final stage was freakin Quickman's stage. lasers and all.

[The Great Gonzo]

Don't get me wrong, I like X6's story. But thanks to not knowing more about it before going into MMZ, I can't think of it in the series timeline without consequently bringing up MMZ and their "sealed at the end and out in X7/waking up from sealage" conflict.

And I'm afraid I may have singlehandedly derailed the thread. I must hit myself now.

[Align]

The backstory of the X6 mavericks bothered me a lot. Alia says stuff like "...It was I who did it! I was the one..." which just makes me feel confused because clearly it's supposed to be dramatic but I never even knew of the guy or the event.
And Sheldon, as mentioned. Big role in some major event, yet for the player he pops up out of nowhere.

Was there some manga or other story in between?

[Gauntlet101010]

That's because your entire argument is based around taking extremes

My argument is based on a line being a line.  A decision being a decision.  Whether it's a small "to be of more help, we'll disobey the greater law" or a bigger "You'r robots are junk, Wily!  I'm gonna trash them all to show you who's the strongest" a decisoon is a decision is a decision.  Whatever the reason behind it ... a decision to disobey a human's laws ... whomever that human is ... shows that to be within the classic series' robots capabilities.

In Gauntlet's defense, Capcom's "story consistency" record isn't very good. Just look at the clusterfuck that is X's canon X6 and on.

Thank you!

It's especially galling when most of the story is in Japanese sourcebooks.  it's like trying to enjoy a picture with half of it covered.  Zan has a bit of a point, I suppose ... the Japanese books are more consistant as to what it is.  Even though they don't really say X considers humans and reploids eaqual and that THAT is what makes him the superior robot; they just say his thought porcess is more complex and that he worries.  I mean, if those are the summeries then the part about him considering all sides eaqual and THAT being the revolutionary part comes later on.  At least, just based on what zan's showing here.

I dunno, tho.  Basically, your (both of you),  saying that officially, robots aren't programmed strictly to obey humans.  They're just strongly inclined to feel they are superior.  Except for King, but that doesn't make him on par with X (presumably because it's not 'eaqual' but 'betetr').  And with Bass needing a different perspective to explain his actions in most of the games he's in.  And with having to consider Blues "mysterious".  

[Zan]

The backstory of the X6 mavericks bothered me a lot. Alia says stuff like "...It was I who did it! I was the one..." which just makes me feel confused because clearly it's supposed to be dramatic but I never even knew of the guy or the event.
And Sheldon, as mentioned. Big role in some major event, yet for the player he pops up out of nowhere.

Was there some manga or other story in between?

Telling you stuff you didn't know is exactly the point of a revelation. There simply is much more to the world than what we see in the games. What's so hard about realizing there's more in the world than X and Zero and that even they do things we're not aware of?

My argument is based on a line being a line.  A decision being a decision.  Whether it's a small "to be of more help, we'll disobey the greater law" or a bigger "You'r robots are junk, Wily!  I'm gonna trash them all to show you who's the strongest" a decisoon is a decision is a decision.  Whatever the reason behind it ... a decision to disobey a human's laws ... whomever that human is ... shows that to be within the classic series' robots capabilities.

There is a reason why I've from the get go established that Asimov's concept of robot laws doesn't apply at all to the Rockman series. There's also a reason why I've mentioned every robot from Blues onward is capable of independent thought and reasoning. Just as much as I've said these robots are capable of the entire range of emotions conceivable. They for all intends and purposes have free will. It's just not as free as Dr. Right would want it to be.

I dunno, tho.  Basically, your (both of you),  saying that officially, robots aren't programmed strictly to obey humans.  They're just strongly inclined to feel they are superior.  Except for King, but that doesn't make him on par with X (presumably because it's not 'eaqual' but 'betetr').  And with Bass needing a different perspective to explain his actions in most of the games he's in.  And with having to consider Blues "mysterious". 

mean, if those are the summeries then the part about him considering all sides eaqual and THAT being the revolutionary part comes later on.

The innovative feature is to "worry". But you shouldn't take that word entirely at face value.  What it means at the core is that it's possible to question one's own beliefs. "Determining right and wrong for oneself." The ability to "worry" about what is right and what is wrong. X's worrying however is hyperactive, and he's a worrywart in general. Because he worries, he has a conscience and he has great compassion for all living beings equally.

What MMZOCW says about equality in the war between humans and Repliroids is a late addition, yes. But really just fancily saying nothing else than what has been established from the get go; the nature of X's character. X's character is to be equally kind to everything, even his own enemies.

I dunno, tho.  Basically, your (both of you),  saying that officially, robots aren't programmed strictly to obey humans.  They're just strongly inclined to feel they are superior.  Except for King, but that doesn't make him on par with X (presumably because it's not 'eaqual' but 'betetr').  And with Bass needing a different perspective to explain his actions in most of the games he's in.  And with having to consider Blues "mysterious". 

What we're saying is that every single person, be it a robot or a human has views of right and wrong. This is their conscience. When going against one's conscience, one feels guilt. When doing as your conscience says, one believes to be doing the right thing.

Sometimes one learns in retrospect one's actions were wrong. Because of misinformation, it wasn't originally realized, but when one thinks back with new information, one realizes that the previously done action was actually violating the own conscience at that time, one simply isn't aware of it at the time. This is something both humans and robots are capable of.

Where humans are different from robots is the ability to actually change their conscience. It isn't something one can actively and forcefully change, but as someone grows as a character by life experience, subtle changes in what they consider right and wrong will occur.

A Repliroid is close to a human and can thus change these views. A robot cannot, as his views have been set in stone by his creator. They have a conscience that can not be changed. Because such an important aspect to the "will" is set and stone, it can be said they can not truly feel and make decisions of their own accord. Only when robots are able to change their own conscience by worrying, then can you truly say they have "free will."

Because a robot's conscience is unchangeable and it is the only thing that's stopping them from rebelling against humanity, creating a conscience is a delicate task. The actual contents of the conscience will determine how a robot behaves. However, every robot is unique and needs a unique conscience. In this uniqueness, someone like Dr. Right still tries to implement a couple of basic concepts though. Those are the laws of robotics. He's trying with all his might to always create a conscience for his robots that will not allow them to cause harm to humans, humanity, themselves or other robots. It's the simple fact that he has to establish which is more important that he's creating such a thing as "bias". And even beyond those 4 basic laws, the conscience is far more all-encompassing. The most subtle of differences can exists that allows robots to be defiant, lazy, or any other negative quality. That's why someone like Blues can run off on his own.

Dr. Wily's creations are obviously different. The conscience's he programs, and the consciences he reprograms keep in mind completely different basic concepts. What he keeps in mind is trying to give them as much free will as possible, whilst still making them work for him in his quest to take over the world.

Dr. Right and Dr. Wily will always try to cover everything they can think of during their programming. But they are still human, therefor robots will often behave unexpectedly. It's only up to a certain point that they can estimate how a robot behaves, and that's only up to the point of how much they know them by heart.

Repliroids are simply a step up on being much liable to do things you won't expect. Their consciences can and wil grow from the base one had programmed. Despite all protections, the danger lies with them realizing that by some twisted reason, it's all right to kill a human being and there being no guilt to go with it whatsoever.

 

[The Great Gonzo]

Telling you stuff you didn't know is exactly the point of a revelation. There simply is much more to the world than what we see in the games. What's so hard about realizing there's more in the world than X and Zero and that even they do things we're not aware of?

Nothing, but even with the revelation, there's stuff only mentioned in the source books that not everyone gets a chance to look at. Even if you tend to over-think things (like I do) and assume that there's more to the world than the games present, how can you be absolutely sure that's how it goes if you haven't looked at the documentation that states what's really going on?

I'd just like to bring up MM8's manual (not RM8's). Mandi said that it described the RMs as if they were human, and I later confirmed it for myself. If you had only that specific manual to go by on terms of how "human" Megaman and his friends/enemies were, and only your own inferences of their personalities based on what you've played (Wily's "robots can't harm humans" bit in 7? One could assume it was just a terrific mind screw on Wily's part as Megaman, himself a robot and not terribly emotionally stable at the time, wouldn't know whether or not to fire anyway), well...

Then again, I fail so hard at the X games that I make newbies to that series look like gaming gods. I wouldn't be surprised if everything I just said gets thoroughly ravaged by next post.

[Align]

Telling you stuff you didn't know is exactly the point of a revelation. There simply is much more to the world than what we see in the games. What's so hard about realizing there's more in the world than X and Zero and that even they do things we're not aware of?

There's nothing hard to understand about it, but they never did it before, so suddenly starting acting like the games wasn't all there was to the world was about as jarring as if X and Zero had swapped personalities, to me.

Although, come to think of it, Mac, Douglas and Double were similarly introduced out of nowhere. I guess there was precedence.
Didn't like it much then either. "here's a backstory and you can't have it"

[Nekomata]

What Makes X Different From Rockman?

his primary programming isn't to take it up the ass from Light.

[Gauntlet101010]

 
The fact that you can't take the word worry at face value is what makes me think the idea's BS.  (directed more at Capcom than at Zan)

If "worry" actually means questioning your beliefs (your concience), then we have seen that with Rock in Power Battles.  Which sorta leads me back into the thinking in the beginning of the argument ...

MMZOCW's words on worry seem FAR more actually true than not taking the word worry at face value.

[Bag of Magic Food]

"Word of God" disagrees with you.

Well, maybe a bunch of people who thought up some video games are not God.

[Align]

But if you're not going to take the word of the creators as canon, what else remains?

[Protoman Blues]

But if you're not going to take the word of the creators as canon, what else remains?

Fanfiction

[Bag of Magic Food]

canon

Fanfiction

Fanon

[Flame]

Apropriate.

[Turian]

Wow, before the reset me and marshmallow man had it out about this. It was fun.