Topic: Why we can't have a Sonic game with nothing but speed...

[Protodude]

Apparently, Sonic runs too fast:

In the latest IGN Three Red Lights podcast at the 19:40 mark David Clayman recalls a time when he talked to a member of the Sonic Unleashed team about this very issue...

"I asked one of the developers at TGS, you know I was like, come on everybody just wants Sonic running, like whats up with the werehog? And he was like, well, heres the deal... he runs at this miles per hour, kilometers per hour, and he laid out all of the statistics on how fast this hedgehog goes, and he was like In order to make a game where Sonic is running and everybody enjoys the whole thing we'd have to design this many miles of level, and it was some ungodly number. And he's like and that would be like maybe a three hour game and I was like wow, well that kinda stinks and he's like yeah, so we gotta do this other stuff."

Source

Seriously...what the [tornado fang]. Considering how short the early Sonic games were, would anybody mind a three hour game? I most certainly don't.

[VixyNyan]

I wouldn't mind, and the past Sonic games did have replay value, so you would always play over and over just for the enjoyment, or in the Adventure/Advance/Rush games, you'd try and get the better ranks or complete some objectives. o.o;

[Jericho]

I remember someone on NeoGAF bringing up this article. All I have to say is a short 3 - 5 hour Sonic game with classic -- hell tightened Unleashed Day Stage mechanics, tons of replay and a light story would be leaps and bounds greater than anything one could do to artificially extend the game's length.

Besides we all know what bloating tends to do to otherwise solid games (see Twilight Princess).

Also, since it was on my mind and related to this topic, anybody ever realize how easy it is to go back and play through the Genesis Sonics multiple times, seeing the same things over and over again, and yet never get tired of it?

[Solar]

If it was full price I'm most certainly sure people would rage/ignore it/only rent it, just look at Mirror's Edge.

[Jericho]

If it was full price I'm most certainly sure people would rage/ignore it/only rent it, just look at Mirror's Edge.

Are you kidding me? Everywhere I go there are people talking about or buying this game in droves. Some people are actually upgrading their PCs so they can double dip when the PC version comes out since it takes advantage of some PhyX tech Nvidia's pumping out.

[Solar]

I remember reading about people not buying it because of length at GAF, maybe they just got over it >_> But still, people WOULD complain.

[STM]

Yes, with the price most games are going today (...which is a joke since Genesis and SNES carts were between $54.99 to $69.99, printing amount pending), most people would like meaty games on their consoles. However, a shorter Sonic game like proposed would work best on handhelds, since those games have a much stronger focus on quick pick-up-and-play styles. It's my belief that 2D Sonic in this vein is destined to be on the DS, PSP and their successors. Meanwhile, more chunkier games will keep seeing releases on the consoles. Do note how handheld Sonic has also been better received than console Sonic. This includes the two Rivals games.

[VixyNyan]

Do note how handheld Sonic has also been better received than console Sonic. This includes the two Rivals games.

Collecting cards is fun and has value~

[Protoman Blues]

Seriously, when have games ever been cheap?  I mean, that's why I laugh when anyone says that $10 for MM9 is somehow a rip-off.  That makes NO sense to me at all.

Don't get me wrong.  I grew to really like the Werehog levels.  But, will I replay them over the Day levels?  Never.  The primary appeal of Unleashed is the Day stages, and what a glorious, fun, way past cool job they did on them.  I mean, if the whole 3-Hour Game thing is a factor...then can't they just simply add triple the speed levels, or something like that?  I know I'd have no issue with that.  Also, perhaps have like 5 bonus levels designed solely for the use of Super Sonic.  Also, why not Playable Tails either?  I don't know, I think I'd play the game over and over again if just some of these factors were added in. 

[Sky Child]

If you're willing to wait two years for every hour of gameplay, then sure.

[Jericho]

Then here's another idea that will go unused. Remember in the olden days when the then not so shitty characters could play the same levels as Sonic, but would explore it differently? Why not use that mechanic again? Instead of shoehorning them in mid Sonic play through though, make it like Sonic Advance 1 where you choose your character from the start and go through the levels doing what the character you chose does best. (Sonic = speedy platforming; Tails = aerial exploration; Knuckles = mowing down areas and blazing new trails; Amy = "Challenge mode", no Spin Dash, Final Destination)

This done right is the next step [after Unleashed and it's godly day stages] toward a grand game SEGA.

If you're willing to wait two years for every hour of gameplay, then sure.

I waited 5 years after Sonic 3 + Knuckles for Sonic Adventure. This is like a no-brainer if the quality is on par with a possible Sonic The Hedgehog 4.

[Protoman Blues]

I waited 5 years after Sonic 3 + Knuckles for Sonic Adventure. This is like a no-brainer if the quality is on par with a Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

I believe she meant in terms of loading time.

[Rad Lionheart]

I just wanna have Sonic run through loops, pick up rings, and fight a baddie at the end of Act 2.

[STM]

Seriously, when have games ever been cheap?  I mean, that's why I laugh when anyone says that $10 for MM9 is somehow a rip-off.  That makes NO sense to me at all.

Don't get me wrong.  I grew to really like the Werehog levels.  But, will I replay them over the Day levels?  Never.  The primary appeal of Unleashed is the Day stages, and what a glorious, fun, way past cool job they did on them.  I mean, if the whole 3-Hour Game thing is a factor...then can't they just simply add triple the speed levels, or something like that?  I know I'd have no issue with that.  Also, perhaps have like 5 bonus levels designed solely for the use of Super Sonic.  Also, why not Playable Tails either?  I don't know, I think I'd play the game over and over again if just some of these factors were added in. 

On the Werehog, he's a bit dull at first, but as you level up his Combat rank, unlocking more combos and moves, and as the levels progress becoming more and more challenging (Empire City is quite a notorious one), he'll begin to shine. Half the fun is when you're a godless killing machine and doing cartwheels to savage every enemy around you. It's similar to how you can't really do much with Dante in Devil May Cry until you begin to upgrade his weapons and, in later games, his styles.

Also, I think the person was thinking in terms of SOnic Unleashed speed level style. Naturally, on a 2D scale, they could probably easily do it, but because of how Unleashed is like, they had to do elaborate planning of the levels. Pretty much, they had to design whole cities, landmasses, ruins, jungles, deserts, canyons, and Eggmanland and then fit levels into them. Any artist or game designer will tell you that is no easy feat, especially when you have to be thinking with Sonic's speed in mind.

[Jericho]

I believe she meant in terms of loading time.

Good God, I lol'd.

I had a gif in mind for this response, but Google search fails me now.

Posted on: December 01, 2008, 12:27:34 AM

Also, I think the person was thinking in terms of SOnic Unleashed speed level style. Naturally, on a 2D scale, they could probably easily do it, but because of how Unleashed is like, they had to do elaborate planning of the levels. Pretty much, they had to design whole cities, landmasses, ruins, jungles, deserts, canyons, and Eggmanland and then fit levels into them. Any artist or game designer will tell you that is no easy feat, especially when you have to be thinking with Sonic's speed in mind.

You know, I never really thought of this, but could this also be a reason as to why this game needed inspiration from real life locales instead of trying to pull off the surrealistic "checkerboard chic" of the Genesis games?

[Solar]

That's actually a pretty interesting question, I too would like to know.

[Protoman Blues]

Also, I think the person was thinking in terms of SOnic Unleashed speed level style. Naturally, on a 2D scale, they could probably easily do it, but because of how Unleashed is like, they had to do elaborate planning of the levels. Pretty much, they had to design whole cities, landmasses, ruins, jungles, deserts, canyons, and Eggmanland and then fit levels into them. Any artist or game designer will tell you that is no easy feat, especially when you have to be thinking with Sonic's speed in mind.

That's why I appreciate the Day time levels so much.  I mean, taking a moment to actually look at the level designs and the backgrounds on YouTube vids and when I was playing it, they truly are fantastic.  I think it could be done through, with more locals in mind.  I mean, a Las Vegas level would've been full of hot sex.  Or, if anything, perhaps take a cue from their previous games and make a Unleashed Green Hill Zone level or something like that.  Again, I'd still love another Death Egg level myself. 

[Jericho]

[...]Or, if anything, perhaps take a cue from their previous games and make a Unleashed Green Hill Zone level or something like that.  Again, I'd still love another Death Egg level myself. 

See my previous question for half of the answer. It would seem that creating those kinds of levels from scratch and with all of Sonic's "Game Physics" in mind, it'd be one hell of a feat to pull off correctly. Besides, Eggmanland (Robuttnikland for the super sensitive ) was just a large Deathegg on land for the most part.

...

Yeah I know. Deathegg is still better.

[Quickman]

I would prolly play more Sonic games if it was all about the speed.  That's what I loved about the classic Sonic games.  Hell, I mostly played the Time Trials in two-player mode over and over and over.  That's what I loved about the game; just being able to blast through the level at breakneck speed.

[Protoman Blues]

I just think, just by using the 2-D aspect of the Day time Unleashed levels, what they could do with a game concept like Sonic CD.

[Quickman]

Oh man, that would be godly.  Sonic CD was great.

[Jericho]

I just think, just by using the 2-D aspect of the Day time Unleashed levels, what they could do with a game concept like Sonic CD.

Stop digging up old wounds man. I did this [asked that same question for S3+K] on another forum. Everyone cried because they knew it was beautiful and right, but would never happen.

Unless the fan community REALLY gets bored discovers a way to rip out and code for Blast Processing 3.0 a.k.a. the Hedgehog Engine.

[Protoman Blues]

And he's like and that would be like maybe a three hour game and I was like wow, well that kinda stinks and he's like yeah, so we gotta do this other stuff.

What I find funny about this part right here is the idea of adding stuff to make the game longer.  What I'd have asked him after that is, in his opinion, which type of game do you think would sell more copies?

[Quickman]

Indeed.  The classic Sonic gamers would be wetting themselves to get a copy of an all-speed 3-hr game.

[Jericho]

What I find funny about this part right here is the idea of adding stuff to make the game longer.  What I'd have asked him after that is, in his opinion, which type of game do you think would sell more copies?

This goes without saying. I'm personally beginning to hate the whole "more bang for your buck" mentality that the industry seems to cling to because it feels like now whenever they have a concept that they don't think will do well on it's own, they'll do more to "throw together" anything that might have some redeeming alone but drag down the quality or appeal as a whole. If they could work with one golden concept and build off of it instead of going 100 different directions, I'm sure the public would respond to it well enough.

It's not their fault though, they have to make sure that their game turns even, but that only starts this vicious cycle back up again.

It's also the reason why the platformer as a genre is in so much danger lately.

Indeed.  The classic Sonic gamers would be wetting themselves to get a copy of an all-speed 3-hr game.

Day. One.