Topic: Mega Man 7, Mega Man 8, and Mega Man & Bass: The worst games in the series?

[Krazy Monkey]

Note: I know I've posted this topic at the Mega Man X9 forum already, but I thought I'd do that here, too, in order to get some more opinions on the matter.

This is something that's been on my mind for quite a few months now. After reading a certain IGN article, there's something that quickly caught my attention:

Mega Man 7 and 8 are regularly considered the worst games in the series by the most ardent fans of the franchise, so shouldn't that tell us all we need to know?

Not very long after that, I was watching a Mega Man 10-related video on Youtube (it was either the trailer, or a Strike Man stage video; I don't remember which one it was, exactly), it's also come to my attention that Mega Man & Bass is also on the list. When someone mentioned the fact that they liked Mega Man 7, and would've liked to see another game like it, someone else responded with something along the lines of, "You DO realize that Mega Man 7, 8, and Mega Man & Bass are considered the worst games in the series, right?", and that comment got several thumbs up.

So, my question is, why is it that these games are all of a sudden so loathed and despised by the fanbase? These games used to be so well-liked before, and I always heard such positive things about them, but as soon as Mega Man 9 came out, these three games were suddenly labeled as garbage. I don't understand this at all. Do people hate these games, simply because they evolved from the 8-bit art style? Is it because of the fact that they contain in-depth storylines, which are apparently frowned upon?

Whatever the case may be, I really don't understand all the hate for those games. I thought all three of them were extraordinarily good, and very fun to play. Mega Man 7 happens to be my favorite of the three games, since it's what got me into the Classic series in the first place. Localization issues aside, I could hardly think of a single negative thing to say about the game. It had good graphics, level layouts, music, a good storyline, and quite a few hidden secrets and surprises, which added some replay value to the game. In fact, I hold this game above Mega Man 2, as strange as that may sound to some people.

Mega Man 8 and Mega Man & Bass were also pretty fun. I loved Mea Man 8's extended level layouts, Mega Man's new abilities (such as swimming, swinging on poles with the Thunder Claw, etc.), and pretty much everything else about the game (except for the voice acting). Mega Man & Bass brought Bass' playabilty to the series (not counting Mega Man 7's hidden two-player mode). In fact, I actually found him to be more fun to play as than Mega Man. Mega Man & Bass also had some replay value, because of all those collectible data CDs and everything. I just don't understand why people hate these games so much.

[Stardius]

Because people are afraid of new unexplored things and they hate to part with things they have deeply burned in their brains, same as I noticed that 5 is often considered the worst of NES MM games.
That's also the reason, why I've seen so many people liking MM9 and judging MM10 and the reasons were often really stupid, like that they
didn't like how they made music in 10.
Personally I liked 7 and M&B, it took some time before I got used to them but they were enjoyable. Eight never really got me though.

But overall I think it is nothing you should think too deeply about, people simply have different opinions. But what is truly important is, if you liked them.

[HyperSonicEXE]

8's stages are too blasted long, Bass is too easy, and the backtracking, UGH.
RnF was just a rush job. I think. Certainly near the end it was; it's evident by the King Tank fight.

But now 7 hate I just don't understand. That game plays more like a classic MM game than those above two; the only negative to MM7 is the proportions/ratios of character/hitbox/screen size, that's it.

[Psycho Yuffie]

Here I go being blunt again, but it can't be avoided. The reason why people hate Mega Man 7, 8, and Bass, is because they're not NES or NES-styled (like 9 and 10). That's the reason. People give a lot of bullshit reasons, but that's the real reason.

[Solar]

They are the worst to me, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're bad. 7 is good, 8 is ok and has its great moments but I don't like the stages that much (JUMPJUMPSLIDESLIDE for example), and I absolutely hate MM&B's fortress ([tornado fang] you King Castle 2).

[Protoman Blues]

The only one I'm not really a fan of is MM&B.  Otherwise, I love 7 & 8.

[Blackhook]

Indeed, that´s the reasson people got overly excited about 9 and 10, that´s the reason why people wanted to make RM 7 and 8 FC. I don´t care about the style, I just want to play the games, which is with MM9 AND 10 immposible. I like MM7, 8 , andB more than MM 4, 5,6 .
But this whole debate is useless because it is still about people´s opinions

[Hiryu]

Bah, who cares what other people think about 7,8,and MM&B. There's nothing wrong with any of them. They are far from the worst megaman games.

But why do they think that? Maybe it's a genuine reason, maybe not for others.

[Satoryu]

I don't know where they get their data, because a third of seems flawed from my experience. I hear nothing but praise of Mega Man 8 if only because of the anime cutscenes. Sure, people pick on JUMP JUMP SLIDE SLIDE, but overall I'd say a lot more people like the game than dislike it. I am not particularly a fan of 8, so that would put me in the minority. It feels too slow and the music didn't do anything for me most of the time.

MM&B I can totally understand disliking. It's a very challenging game, even by Mega Man standards. And it is very rehashy of 8. My real gripe with it, though, was how useless Rush was in casual play, and that Rush Search was needed for half of the friggin CDs.

But I never understood the hate 7 gets. Maybe because 7 is my favorite classic game. I just love how it plays, how it looks, how it feels.

I'd say 6 is the worst or the numbered Classics, actually. But that doesn't mean 6 is a bad game. It just means it's not quite as good as the rest in my eyes.

[Dexter Dexter]

Let's see:

• 7 was one of the best of the lot, 'nuff said,
• I've never played 8, but the voices in the cutscenes don't sound too good, although I congratulate Capcom for giving the characters voices in 8, and
• Mega Man & Bass was, in my opinion, the worst of the lot because, first off, it's HARD AS HELL, and second, the GBA port ducks sick, which is also the reason I hate on this game as a Japan-exclusive. Also, it looks as if Capcom did not put forth much effort into Mega Man & Bass (in terms of the King/Wily stages). I also find the databases to be a nuisance to collect.

That's my take on it.

[Irgendein]

I don't consider them to be even remotely bad. Maybe a bit "meh" at some parts, but overall thoroughly enjoyable like the rest of the series. One thing I'll never understand about dislike towards MM&B though, is why people hate on the music so much. Personally, it's one of my favourite MM soundtracks (note I've only played the SFC version, so I don't know how the GBA version sounds). Also, I find it rather odd that people would consider a game terrible just for being hard.

[Gaia]

Let's see, I have a good few pointers.

• Let's get started with 7, I.. just couldn't stand the FFF-cking capsule boss.. I.. just can't stand him. Annoying git.
• MM8 I had NO problem with it, ironically being one of the few first PSX titles I ever owned. I liked the sky segment in Tenguman's actually. 

• Megaman and Bass, however.. Some of the obsticals were a little unforgiving at best, especially you, evil rabid propane tank I like to call, Burnerman.
• The only thing that bugged me about 9 was the slightly childish resposnes to the first (and seemingly only) female boss. "lol free porn" and all that. Plus how you gotta have perfect timing with Tornadoman's weapon in one of the Wily Stages is just slightly irritating, but fun.

I haven't played 10 yet, I'm waiting for a chance to get some form of money to buy a pair of 2000 point cards and use one of them for 10. . It seems I have really no problem with any of them. It's just the opinions, afterall.

[Gauntlet101010]

After MM9 MM3 hate became vogue.  The return to early 8-bit created backlash against anything that tried to do something new.  7 - R&F had flaws, just as every game.

I remember when MM6 was generally considered the poorest among hardcore fans.  What do they say about it now?  "MM6 shows just how great the NES can be before it was finally shelved".  The fanbase is fickle.  

[Sapphire Knight]

Personally, Rockman 8 is my favorite, if only because it has my favorite Robot Master in it (Astroman with Astro Crash FTW). Yeah, the voice acting wasn't the best, but then again, voice acting on Playstation games were kinda awkward anyway, in my opinion. Wait, I think I said another reason (beyond not being 8-bit) reason right there about 8. It went from a Nintendo system to a Sony system.

Rockman 7, not too sure. Obviously, not 8-bit. When I first played it, I plowed right through it, now I go back and play it, and I can't even get to the first checkpoint. That has no relevance, but I felt like putting out there (My skills are degrading!! ).

Rockman and Forte, never actually played it, so I can't place an opinion on it.

[Da Dood]

They are my least favorites, but that doesn't mean they're bad games, yadda yadda, you've heard the story.

I played Mega Man 7 this weekend and my impression was the same as always: this game is all about the secrets. Mega Man is slow and clunky, they take less risks with platform hazards because everything's so big, the sound effects are weird. These things really bother me. But again, MM7 is all about the secrets. There's something extra to do in every stage you visit, a secondary mission, which makes every trip worthwhile outside of just beating the boss.

Mega Man 8 has some really cool stuff, like some of the items you can buy in the shop (although I would prefer if we could buy everything). Arrow Shot is one of my favorite items in the series. The arsenal is quite enjoyable and useful, and when they get the level design right, it's a blast.

Mega Man & Bass was seemingly designed for Bass play, and it's solid. I'm hoping we'll get a SNES release on the Virtual Console, because the GBA version rapes the screen ratio.

All three games share one thing I absolutely loathe, however: split boss select. This is an insult to the formula. The one thing that makes Mega Man stand out in design is how much freedom you have to select your route. When they cut the stage select in half, they also cut the game's element of strategy in half.

Overall I prefer the 8-bit games because of the engine. I just feel totally at home with them. I know the exact sprite frame that allows me to jump from the edge of a platform, I like the speed and distance the slide covers, I like how every level is full of spikes and traps, how small Mega Man is compared to the room, I like the sounds.

[Bag of Magic Food]

All three games share one thing I absolutely loathe, however: split boss select. This is an insult to the formula. The one thing that makes Mega Man stand out in design is how much freedom you have to select your route. When they cut the stage select in half, they also cut the game's element of strategy in half.

I would say it's worse than half.  With 8 choices at the start, there are 8! = 40320 possible level completion orders.  With only 4 at a time, there are only 4! x 4! = 24 x 24 = 576 possible orders.  But then if you consider that what equipment you have to start the second set will always be the same and thus independent of how you play the first set, it's really more like 4! + 4! = 24 + 24 = 48 notable ways altogether.

[Satoryu]

split boss select

Agreed. Moreso in MMB's case. That mess is stupid and practically tells you the boss order. I've learned to live with it in 7 and 8, though.

But at least Bass and 7 have a single weakness circle. I really don't like how 8, 3, and 2 to a lesser extent have broken cycles. I understand with 8, the second half was designed so that you had to use the weapons you got in the first half, but I'm just not a fan of it. Only the Wily stages should force you to use a weapon.

[DjKlzonez]

That's simple: People refuses to change.

[Bag of Magic Food]

Another thing I remembered these games took from the Game Boy games is that you don't get to see the Robot Masters' names until after you choose to fight them.  Unless you have the manual with you, you're left to think, "Uh, I guess I'll pick this shifty-looking guy with the horn on his head, whatever he's called."  And they don't have the excuse of the Game Boy's smaller screen!

[HyperSonicEXE]

Before I got heavily into Mega Man, I grew up on MM7. 7's great, 7's better than the classic games in terms of being fun.

But, looking back, it isn't quite the NES style Mega Man, and I appreciate Capcom sticking to the old style to show the err in my ways for 9 and 10.

HOWEVER, 7 was, again, fun. Had the slide, the Charge Shot, had Blues' Shield, had the Super Adapter, whereas things just lack wonder in those departments in 9 and 10. Thankfully in 10, we do get extra weapons from DLC, even though those can only be used in Time Attack.

Mega Man 11 needs some OOMPH. I'm not sure I'd enjoy another 8-Bit, ability lacking mega-romp.

[DjKlzonez]

can only be used in Time Attack.

Did you started a new game as Megaman?

[HyperSonicEXE]

No, why would I do tha...

!

[Flame]

Here I go being blunt again, but it can't be avoided. The reason why people hate Mega Man 7, 8, and Bass, is because they're not NES or NES-styled (like 9 and 10). That's the reason. People give a lot of bullshit reasons, but that's the real reason.

Pretty much my opinion. Its the saem reason people want more retro titles for both classic and X. They care about nothing more than their personal nostalgia.

[Fragman]

I agree, this post 8-bit game bashing is just another fan fad.  Megaman 7 and 8 were every bit the products of game designers who respected the material they were working with and wanted to give the fans everything they could by taking advantage of new technology. 

Before that, Megaman 5 and 6 were being bashed, even though Megaman 5 had some new and innovative level design, and opened up robot master designs to the west for the first time, while Megaman 6 gave us the new combining mechanic that we're still seeing Bass use even today.

The fact is, Inafune has kept tight control over the classic series and won't let something slip by that isn't worthy of the series.  They may try new things, some things stay, others go, but none of the games in the series deserve the unfair bashing that some of the fans are giving to 7 and 8 right now.

[Flame]

I myself liked 6.  The alternate paths thing was real cool.