Topic: Zero turned good by the Sigma Virus

[Align]

Maybe it's from when he was being examined at MHHQ after Sigma captured him?

[Zan]

(Although it says Irregular Zero... Something that seems out of place... lack of translating irregular aside.)

Then you'd be surprised to know there are other schematics in that same scene which read "irregular hunter".

[marshmallow man]

I figured the "first infected" statement works in a couple of ways. Noting that RPM says Zero was perhaps born with it, and that Wily put it inside of him, and going with the X4/ZERO1 radiation symbol, I'd say it's likely that Wily had indeed tried to infect Zero upon his creation. Either to test the virus' workings on Zero's psyche, to gradually build up his immunity, or to strengthen Zero by use of the immunity. Leaving us with a Zero that does spread the virus, but has yet to be infected to facilitate the change to good. Zero can after all be infected many times, only for his immunity to counter that infection, until the moment that his immunity is breached and the virus reaches his brain.

Niiiiiice, Zan. Perfect. Cut, print, that's a wrap.

I still wonder about the details of Sigma's own infection. Can you clarify what Sigma himself said in RockmanX8?

I'll see what I can do when I get back.

I think doing that would have conflicted with the established concept of "irregular of one's own accord" presented with Sigma, VAVA and Lumine.

I think it would have fit fine. Some reploids already didn't need a virus to be jerks.

Then you'd be surprised to know there are other schematics in that same scene which read "irregular hunter".

We're not going to have to try to account for that famous flub, are we?

[Mirby]

??? Now that is odd... Meh, no matter.

[Rodrigo Shin]

what Sigma said in RockmanX8?

I'll see what I can do when I get back.

This help?
[spoiler]　シグマ
　また会えたな、ゼロ…
　一つの世界の終焉に
　他ならぬキサマと立ち会えるとはな!

　ゼロ…、究極の破壊者となれる
　そのDNAから得られたウイルスで、
　私はこの世界を侵すことができた…

　そして、そう…それこそが、全てを
　終わらせるこの時の始まりだったのだ
　そう思うだろう?

　ゼロ
　イレギュラーのたわ言は
　そのぐらいにしておいて貰おうか…

　シグマ
　くくく…、そう怒るな
　キサマには感謝しているのだ…
　こうして、新世代のレプリロイド…

　我が意思を受け継ぐ子供たちが
　宇宙に、我らの新たな世界を
　創り上げることができたのだしな

　ゼロ
　子供…、だと?

　シグマ
　そう…

　ヤコブ計画で産み出された新世代型
　レプリロイド全てのコピーチップには
　我がデータが刻まれている!

　これからの世界を築くのは、我々だ!
　ゼロ!古き世界と共に滅ぶがよい![/spoiler]

[Flame]

??? Now that is odd... Meh, no matter.

What's odd?

[Zan]

I think it would have fit fine. Some reploids already didn't need a virus to be jerks.

But having the majority of Irregulars caused by defected thought circuits removes the special aspect from VAVA. Who for that very reason falls within that small niche Sigma considers irregulars of their own accord.

We're not going to have to try to account for that famous flub, are we?

Well, if we're going to make some sense of the "1XX years ago" statement.. This image being famous not only for the "Irregular Hunter Zero" label, but also for the many X2 design elements on an X1 Zero. You'd think the creators of the X4 anime sequences would be well aware of either of these things. After all, they're the ones that established X1 and X2 Zero as distinctly different; they're the ones that revealed Zero was originally an Irregular.

Chalk it up to Zero's dreams being messed up as dreams usually are, I suppose.

[Mirby]

Chalk it up to Zero's dreams being messed up as dreams usually are, I suppose.

That's... that's what I was going to say...

[marshmallow man]

Marsh & Rod presents... X8 (in COLOR)

Sigma:
So we meet again, Zero...
How fitting that none other than yourself should bear witness to the end of the world!

Zero... the inherent ultimate destroyer.
The virus I acquired from that DNA allowed me to lay siege to this world...

And, so... you could say that's when it all began,
the beginning of the end of everything, don't you agree?

Zero:
How much irregular bullshit do you expect me to take...?

But having the majority of Irregulars caused by defected thought circuits removes the special aspect from VAVA. Who for that very reason falls within that small niche Sigma considers irregulars of their own accord.

The early handful of incidents would have little bearing on Vile's importance to Sigma. When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Well, if we're going to make some sense of the "1XX years ago" statement.. This image being famous not only for the "Irregular Hunter Zero" label, but also for the many X2 design elements on an X1 Zero. You'd think the creators of the X4 anime sequences would be well aware of either of these things. After all, they're the ones that established X1 and X2 Zero as distinctly different; they're the ones that revealed Zero was originally an Irregular.

You'd also think they'd get the main characters' eye colors right. I'm fine with calling a mistake a mistake.
I think the animators must have been given Zero's old X3 model kit box as a reference (or perhaps some common piece of source material that the model kit's art was also based on), and they used the English from it without giving it a second thought, the contradiction getting overlooked. That box is the only other place I can think of that used "breast" armor instead of "chest" armor.

That reminds me though, I wonder how the "Z-brain" and "Z-heart" lens functions mentioned in the Rockman X4 Saikyou Daizukan would fit into the current scenario. Maybe the Z-brain acts as the virus armor for his mind, while the Z-heart concentrates and converts the virus to boost his power...?

[Zan]

Marsh & Rod presents...

Thanks.

And this only further establishes Sigma had to had gotten the virus from Zero, not his capsule..

The early handful of incidents would have little bearing on Vile's importance to Sigma. When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Sigma put importance on VAVA not just because of his combat capabilities, but also his mental state. By having nearly everyone have defects in their electronic brains, ruins what makes VAVA special.

I think the animators must have been given Zero's old X3 model kit box as a reference

Whilst that might explain the terms present, it doesn't explain the use of both an X1 and a pseudo-X1 Zero design.

the "Z-brain" and "Z-heart"

The what? Feel free to provide us with more info.

[Flame]

Sigma put importance on VAVA not just because of his combat capabilities, but also his mental state. By having nearly everyone have defects in their electronic brains, ruins what makes VAVA special.

I disagree. I personally- Think Vava is pretty special no matter what. Not only is he an irregular of his own accord, but you could say he always was one. He was made with the defect, he always enjoyed destruction, It got him into trouble as a Hunter. I think its more not just the defect that makes him special, but just everything that makes him who he is. from his look to his personality, to his abilities, and his history.
If we had well, lets take Larry as an example again, if he were compared to Vava, he still wouldnt really compare. he would just be like any other reploid gone nuts. He would be terminated, end of story.

Yet our purple/blue/green faceless friend here, is not just "a reploid gone nuts". The defect is said to cause his destructive persona. Thats just the thing though. He was always that way, from the very start. And his defect is unique in making him who he is. He is a war machine, from head to toe. He is an A class Ex hunter. he has a grudge against X, and constantly sides with Sigma, because Sigma allows him to run rampant as long as he serves him. even with introduction of other reploids with defects, it really wouldnt damage Vava's uniqueness at all. Thats like saying Colonel isnt unique because Signas happens to resemble him. they have similar features, but both are unique. In the same way, even if both Vava and Larry here are irregulars caused by defect, doesnt make Vava any less special. in fact, it makes him MORE special. Because out of a small group of reploids that are made with defects and either do or do not go nuts because of them, He stands out, he is unique, he is superior, he is Vava, the over destructive A class hunter who has revived over and over, and will haunt X to the day he dies.

Also, defect? He has been revived over and over, and he is always the same, and while the initial Vava had the defect in his brain, im not so certain that his subsequent bodies would have such a flaw in their design. yet he remains the same.

For the sake of argument, lets say that he was eventually repaired of his defect. He was still destructive for God knows how long. That is his personality. Its who he is. Are you so sure The defect si what KEEPS him that way? Its what casued it, but thats what he has become and always will be, he cannot change, and doesnt care to. He has developed a destructive personality. Its not just caused, but learned behavior as well. Its become part of him.

Which is another reason why he is so unique.

[marshmallow man]

And this only further establishes Sigma had to had gotten the virus from Zero, not his capsule..

Before ZC's timeline, I would have said it was all but fact.

Sigma put importance on VAVA not just because of his combat capabilities, but also his mental state. By having nearly everyone have defects in their electronic brains, ruins what makes VAVA special.

Because Vile has a natural tendency towards hate, cruelty and violence, no other reploid in the world can also have that trait? I don't really buy that. Though we don't have any exact statistical data, if there are millions of reploids in the world and we say that 1 in a thousand or even less that had a defect in their brains, it can be considered both a rare but not unheard of trait. For every reploid that goes maverick, how many reploids don't? How many of those defects are unique model reploids and not a random error of mass production? How many of them have Special A Hunter combat skills? If Vile couldn't kick ass the way he does, his mental state would be of no more individual consequence to Sigma than the average stage enemy's reasons for fighting. Vile is the right guy in the right place at the right time. He's still special because he's just the right mix of madness and power to shake things up the way Sigma wants, and that wouldn't be significantly diminished whether there's a thousand other defective reploids or a thousand other combat reploids. There's still only one Vile.

Edit: (I totally missed Flame's post)

Also, defect? He has been revived over and over, and he is always the same, and while the initial Vava had the defect in his brain, im not so certain that his subsequent bodies would have such a flaw in their design. yet he remains the same.

Of course, the people who revived him likely planned to use his violence to their own ends, and so probably had in mind that he stay roughly the same way once resurrected. But it's still a pretty interesting basis, the defect is only a flaw from the standpoint of someone who wanted him to turn out some other way. One man's personality defect is another man's proudly unique sense of character.

Whilst that might explain the terms present, it doesn't explain the use of both an X1 and a pseudo-X1 Zero design.

It might, all it would take is for an illustrator working from multiple sources to get a little mixed up on what minor design trait belonged in the picture and what didn't, and for nobody to correct it. Unless Inafune has some inside story behind it, we'll probably never know.

Of course if we wanted to apply a plot explanation we could chalk up the differences to it being an intermediate phase in Wily's style designs, but of course the Irregular Hunter label couldn't be excused in the same way. Zero's buggy memory might be the best excuse to overlook it, since either way it's in error.

The what? Feel free to provide us with more info.

I thought we'd discussed it before, especially since it's part of the same page that says Zero's made of Titanium Z and uses solar energy, conflicting with other sources that say atomic power. Maybe I skipped some of the details though, so here's the whole section.

4. The Secrets of Zero's Body and Abilities

He possesses abilities no less amazing than X's, and with just as many mysteries surrounding them!

Zero self-destructed in "Rockman X", only to be revived by Sagesse in "X2". (That's the reason for the design changes around his shoulder area and such.) His power source is solar energy like X, while his body material is comprised of a Titanium Z alloy, and is equipped with peculiar mechanisms called the Z-brain (the head lens)  and the Z-heart (the chest lens), which conceal an unknown power.

[Mirby]

So the boob lights are the Z-heart?

[Flame]

"lens" Would those be those two rond gems in the X4 Zero ending? one big one in the middle of his chest, and the other on his head?


these?

[marshmallow man]

Probably. They didn't supply a picture showing exactly what they meant in the book. Zero's insides don't look quite the same way when shown in X5, but he still seems to have a upper chest gem and a head gem underneath, so I imagine the vague idea holds true. That page is the only place that ever talks about them, so far as I know.

[Flame]

Well in X5, it actually looks justa s if not more suspicious, as it has a "W" on it. And if wily was gonna put a W anywhere it would be the outside, not the inside of his creation.

[Mirby]

There aren't W's on any of his RMs, so why would Zero be any different?

[Zan]

Before ZC's timeline, I would have said it was all but fact.

But ZC's timeline does not specify how Sigma got infected. Yes, it says that virus comes from the capsule, but that's ultimately where Zero's also comes from. Even if Zero gives it to Sigma, it still comes from the capsule.

It might, all it would take is for an illustrator working from multiple sources to get a little mixed up on what minor design trait belonged in the picture and what didn't, and for nobody to correct it. Unless Inafune has some inside story behind it, we'll probably never know.

X5 also occasionally shows intermediate designs. And these "minor design traits" are fixed within an identical, but colored image within the same scene.

conflicting with other sources that say atomic power

About which Zero are these conflicting sources talking, X1 Zero, X2 Zero, or X6 Zero?

(That's the reason for the design changes around his shoulder area and such.)

This is you or the book speaking?

which conceal an unknown power.

Which they never bothered to elaborate on...

[Flame]

There aren't W's on any of his RMs, so why would Zero be any different?

Well, exactly. there arent, yet Zero has a W on his person. Now, if Wily was gonna put it somewhere, it would be the OUTSIDE, no? yet its not only on the crystal, but on a crystal that does not appear externally, something which is very odd.

A hidden, internal gem on his upper chest with a 'W" on it, and a note of a "Z-Heart"
Something seems to fit right.

[marshmallow man]

But ZC's timeline does not specify how Sigma got infected. Yes, it says that virus comes from the capsule, but that's ultimately where Zero's also comes from. Even if Zero gives it to Sigma, it still comes from the capsule.

It is pretty specific, actually. Sigma and Zero were both infected at around the same time (literally, "douji ni" could be implying simultaneously) by the unknown computer virus that was explicitly said to be leaking from the capsule in the very same sentence.

X5 also occasionally shows intermediate designs. And these "minor design traits" are fixed within an identical, but colored image within the same scene.

X5 has its own oddities, be they intentional or mistakes. Maybe whoever the scene's colorist was had a better grasp of what things should be when working on that image.

About which Zero are these conflicting sources talking, X1 Zero, X2 Zero, or X6 Zero?

Simply Zero, with no suggestion that the power source ever changed between games. The first source citing an atomic powered engine is from a Cyber Mission guide, so both ideas were presented before X6 came around.

This is you or the book speaking?

All the text in parenthesis there is what is written in the book.

[Zan]

It is pretty specific, actually. Sigma and Zero were both infected at around the same time (literally, "douji ni" could be implying simultaneously) by the unknown computer virus that was explicitly said to be leaking from the capsule in the very same sentence.

I still don't see how it's mutually exclusive. Sigma was after all constantly in the vicinity of this virus spreading capsule that even infected Zero. It just means Sigma got something extra whilst punching Zero's lights out, passing that along from Zero to him.

Simply Zero, with no suggestion that the power source ever changed between games. The first source citing an atomic powered engine is from a Cyber Mission guide, so both ideas were presented before X6 came around.

But if the first source saying Atomic is Cyber Mission, then it seems like another one of those "X5 team" things. Like Sigma being the first Repliroid. If that X4 quote is the only one that mention solar, I would perhaps attribute it to just X1 Zero, since the context is heavily related to Zero's origins, if you ignore the mention of his revival by Sagesse.

However, if it's just Cyber Mission, and not anything after X3... What about the damage to Zero's power system that happened in that game? Do any other sources mention Atomic?

[Flame]

I still don't see how it's mutually exclusive. Sigma was after all constantly in the vicinity of this virus spreading capsule that even infected Zero. It just means Sigma got something extra whilst punching Zero's lights out, passing that along from Zero to him.

That actually gets me thinking...

Considering all these mentions of a "Peculiar" Z brain and Heart, which seem to "which conceal an unknown power", and the fact that there are constantly both 2 strange canisters with purple and yellow lights, and tubes, as if mixing something, with yellow and purple in X4's cutscenes, (with, may I add, a biohazard symbol that resembles something seen in Zero 1 in the abandoned lab)

And now you mention that Sigma was constantly exposed to the virus, yet possibly caught something MORE when punching Zero in the head and smashing his headgem...

could it be that the components to the Virus, or whatever Wily originally had, POSSIBLY for use with Zero, (to mess around with that excessive violence caused by his cognitive flaw) was composed to two parts? one in the "Z-Brain" and another in the "Z-Heart"? The two of which either together (or used separately within each lens) would affect Zero uniquely and make the "Awakened" state we saw in X5? (And I think X2, you mentioned as well)

Maybe each was supposed to affect his heart and brain separately?

Im stretching it a bit, but just wondering

[rock_volnutt2010]

true. in X6 gate found zero's DNA trying to analysing it but then gate was infected unnoticed because zero's DNA was still infected bu the virus after X5 that how gate created the nightmare virus. zero came back alive as the nightmare zero since X was dreaming about zero he should fight him and bring back to normal. the nightmare virus can cause other reploids to go irregular that would be bad zero was surprised that his DNA was on gate that he was holding zero blaming himself causing to the entire world.

[Mirby]

We've already established this.

[Flame]

true. in X6 gate found zero's DNA trying to analysing it but then gate was infected unnoticed because zero's DNA was still infected bu the virus after X5 that how gate created the nightmare virus. zero came back alive as the nightmare zero since X was dreaming about zero he should fight him and bring back to normal. the nightmare virus can cause other reploids to go irregular that would be bad zero was surprised that his DNA was on gate that he was holding zero blaming himself causing to the entire world.

first of all, Nightmare Zero is not Zero, he is a clone.
second, I STILL dont understad you.
third, from what i can gather, we have already established that stuff, and it has nothing to do with the subject matter...