Super Smash Bros. Thread

[Hypershell]

Said it before, say it again: Mewtwo's absense sucks because of the fact that everyone dissed him in Melee, so me, Quickie, and the other two people in the hemisphere who were actually good with him had something to prove.  It just really blows not being able to strut our stuff with him online.

And this invalidates him ever being a fighter.
Because stage elements are not things that can be played as.
This is good because now people can shut the [tornado fang] up about Ridley.

Ridley was TWO bosses in the last game, and people still talked about him well after the full roster was revealed.  Why would this be any different?

That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. And although it is a step in the right direction, a lot of people would've preferred a Battlefield variant since Final Destination is far from the most balanced stage, FYI.

That's mostly the Brawl crowd that says that; in Melee, it was all FD.  IIRC that has more to do with the edges of the level than it does the existence of platforms; Brawl's FD apparently was too easy to get trapped under.

I'm kinda happy for the segregation, though I'm sad that it had to come to that.  Despite the fact that Final Destination spamming was "officially" a Melee policy and not a Brawl policy, there were a LOT of "tournament wannabes" insisting on FD in Brawl's online.  I wouldn't personally care if the game's "random" selection had the good sense to not entertain repeat requests, but such was not the case.  Also, kudos to Nintendo for their word play; I resent the "hardcore/casual" labels in that instance that everyone naturally jumps to anyway, since you can literally sink some damn "hardcore" hours into any game mode one chooses.

Gotta admit, single Charizard makes me very happy! Lou and I are gonna have some fun Charizard vs. Greninja battles.

Me too on that one, seeings how Charizard was the entire reason I played as Pokemon Trainer.  Who knows, maybe I can actually pull my weight as him this time around...

With all the Mewtwo stuff, I find it really hard to believe that even after they include Jigglypuff (You know they will.) That they'll allow the Pokemon rep count to go over the Mario rep count, despite how popular Pokemon is they'd never put more of them in over their flagship series. Notice how they seem to tie in each game.

SSB 64 had Mario & Luigi, Pikachu & Jigglypuff.
Melee had Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser and Dr. Mario, With Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pichu, and Mewtwo. Mario has more in this game but that's only because of the clone. Pokemon would only have three without Pichu.
Brawl cut Dr. Mario but otherwise had the same lineup for Mario characters, Pokemon dropped Mewtwo and Pichu for Lucario and PKMN Trainer, who if you really wanted to could be considered three seperate characters but because they share one slot I'd say they're one. Feel free to disagree, but in this game they're 4 to 4.

SSB4 adds Rosalina to the Mario mix adding it up to 5, so potentially we'll get one more Pokemon and that'll most likely be Jigglypuff because she's part of the original 12.

Yoshi and Wario don't count in the mix obviously because they're labelled as their own series.

I'd say that Yoshi is a grey area.  I know they give him his own icon and all, but Yoshi was never really separated from Mario's "world".  By contrast, Wario (and DK) have unique supporting casts.  Yoshi really doesn't, the main supporters in his series ARE Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and a Magikoopa with a name.

But even assuming Yoshi is not counted, the simple solution would be to add Mewtwo and Daisy.

Samus got so nerfed in Brawl. So did Link.

AND FOR [tornado fang] SAKE, GIVE JIGGLYPUFF BACK THE POWER OF HER REST MOVE.

What got me in the way of Brawl nerfs was the goddamn fireballs.  Mario and Luigi couldn't send a projectile more than three feet in front of them.

Speaking of which, I'm really hoping that Luigi's jump punch will stop sucking as a recovery move.  ...probably not, but we can dream.

[Police Girl]

Ridley was TWO bosses in the last game, and people still talked about him well after the full roster was revealed.  Why would this be any different?

Consider it more of a hope than anything else. I personally don't want to see Ridley be a playable character because it just seems like a stupid concept.

[Sakura Leic]

Consider it more of a hope than anything else. I personally don't want to see Ridley be a playable character because it just seems like a stupid concept.

I'd argue an uneeded and wishfulilment concept.

[Nexus]

So with the Rally-X flag showing up in press images as what seems like an Assist Trophy alternative, and two pictures of Galaga aliens as well, some people are assuming that not only are some Namco assists sneaking in, but there's going to be an inevitable Namco representative.

I mean, the obvious first guess would always be Pac-Man, but for once if it happens, I really hope it's Klonoa. 

[Phi]

YES to Klonoa!

[Sakura Leic]

Honestly I wouldn't know who they could put in as a Namco representative, I would like Klonoa to be it over Pac Man since Klonoa does need more love, I mean if Earthbound, Fire Emblem, and freaking Kid Icarus could be in I don't see why Klonoa can't.  But you can also make the Pac Man argument with Game and Watch and R.O.B.

A Tales character would be an alternative but there's so many of them that I couldn't choose, and even then if they did it would probably be Lloyd anyway because Tales of Symphonia is the most iconic with Phantasia being distant second and both share the same timeline.  I'd honestly think Rita could be a interesting character to put in.

[Phi]

Well, it definitely makes sense that Kid Icarus is in, as Uprising is still fairly new; FE Awakening is even newer. Earthbound is coming (came?) to the Wii U VC (still pissed that it's not on 3DS), so yeah.

In relation to Fire Emblem and the other franchises, Klonoa doesn't have too great of a chance. He wasn't in anything recent. I do hope he's a Namco representative, but right now, it's mostly wishful thinking.

*fingers crossed*

[Sakura Leic]

I was talking more from Brawl's roster more than this one.

[Police Girl]

I'd say if they did a Tales character they'd probably want to limit it to characters that have been in games released worldwide, I mean it'd be no good if they put in somebody like the main from Hearts since that was Japan-only.

Which would bring it down to a rep from Phantasia, Destiny, Eternia, Symphonia, DotNW, Abyss, Vesperia, Graces, and Xillia/Xillia2.

But yeah, it'd probably be Lloyd. Symphonia is relatively popular and such, his Final Smash could be Falcon's Crest/Divine Justice.

But hey, in the last game we got two third-party characters and seeing as Sonic came back and Snake probably won't its safe to say we'll have a Namco friend, maybe two.

[Protoman Blues]

What got me in the way of Brawl nerfs was the goddamn fireballs.  Mario and Luigi couldn't send a projectile more than three feet in front of them.

Pills were superior! 

So speaking of Brawl, since I'm going to PAX East this weekend, I will be participating in the Brawl tourney. Since she's so low on the Tier List, I'm gonna rep Zelda! 

[Sakura Leic]

I'd say if they did a Tales character they'd probably want to limit it to characters that have been in games released worldwide, I mean it'd be no good if they put in somebody like the main from Hearts since that was Japan-only.

Which would bring it down to a rep from Phantasia, Destiny, Eternia, Symphonia, DotNW, Abyss, Vesperia, Graces, and Xillia/Xillia2.

But yeah, it'd probably be Lloyd. Symphonia is relatively popular and such, his Final Smash could be Falcon's Crest/Divine Justice.

But hey, in the last game we got two third-party characters and seeing as Sonic came back and Snake probably won't its safe to say we'll have a Namco friend, maybe two.

You forgot Legendia.

Pills were superior! 

So speaking of Brawl, since I'm going to PAX East this weekend, I will be participating in the Brawl tourney. Since she's so low on the Tier List, I'm gonna rep Zelda! 

Heck yeah represent RPM and everywhere else you go with glory, even if I have it in my head cannon that Peach is forever your main main.

[Phi]

PB representin', oh yeah, bring those RPM colors. Word up.

[Police Girl]

You forgot Legendia.

You're right, I did.

It must not be very memorable if I forgot about it.

[Protoman Blues]

She's definitely more of my main than Zelda is. I just wanna see how far I can get with her! 

[Sakura Leic]

She's definitely more of my main than Zelda is. I just wanna see how far I can get with her! 

Well you better practice a lot with her.

[Protoman Blues]

I know her inside and out! 

[Soultrigger]

That's mostly the Brawl crowd that says that; in Melee, it was all FD.  IIRC that has more to do with the edges of the level than it does the existence of platforms; Brawl's FD apparently was too easy to get trapped under.

Err...if you don't follow Melee (or Project M), you shouldn't talk with authority on the matter.

Final Destination is not perfectly balanced in either Brawl or Melee, and this is because certain characters benefit greatly from having no platforms. For instance, projectile characters can gain a huge advantage by camping. Another good example (specifically in Melee) is Marth vs Fox/Falco: because there are no platforms, spacies are very susceptible to easy chain grabs which rack up lots of guaranteed damage.

I'm not completely knowledgeable on tourney-legal stages, but "only FD" is simply a huge misconception that tourney-player wannabes spam, which gets actual tourney-players mislabeled.

EDIT: 1st and 2nd match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhiXAou9HwA

[Satoryu]

Platforms are actually part of the Smash metagame from what I understand. Not just their existence or lack thereof in FD, but their positioning could help some characters and hurt others. When I hear counterpicking in Smash, I'm usually thinking of stages more than characters. I think there's maybe six tournament legal stages in Melee, and from what I remember seeing, Yoshi's Story and Battlefield are just as common as FD if not moreso. Gotta love Randall the cloud. Except when he fucks you over of course.

About the Bamco stuff, they originally said they wouldn't be getting special treatment. But yeah, I expect that to be a bluff. Most likely to me is Pac Man because there is a cartoon of him running currently and there's games to go along with it. Second most likely would be Lloyd because he's been in three games that at least temporarily were Nintendo exclusives. Three to my knowledge at least, I don't know if there's a Tales spinoff game on 3DS or something.

But I had an idea of a way they could sneak in a reference. With Little Mac, I'm assuming the wireframe is just an alternate color, and if he were to get an actual new skin it would be the blonde shirtless version of him from Super Punch Out. Well, if Namco wants to have a little fun and fill up his color options, why not give Mac colors that resemble Steve Fox? Hell, he could have Balrog and Dudley colors if they really wanted to.

[Police Girl]

About the Bamco stuff, they originally said they wouldn't be getting special treatment. But yeah, I expect that to be a bluff. Most likely to me is Pac Man because there is a cartoon of him running currently and there's games to go along with it. Second most likely would be Lloyd because he's been in three games that at least temporarily were Nintendo exclusives. Three to my knowledge at least, I don't know if there's a Tales spinoff game on 3DS or something.

Three? Symphonia, DotNW, and... some Soul Calibur game if I'm correct.

Not to mention the HD re-release, despite it being on PS3, probably has Symphonia fresh in people's minds.

But yeah, if not him or some other Tales character than it'll be Pac-Man, hopefully save voice and with Classic Pac-Man skin because the Ghostly Adventures design is just kind of ugly.

[Sakura Leic]

I've never played the 3D Pac Man games so I don't know how he would fight.

[Police Girl]

I've never played the 3D Pac Man games so I don't know how he would fight.

The only ones I've played are Pac-Man World and Pac-Man World 2 and basically his only moves in those games were a Butt Bounce and A Charge Run thing.

I imagine they'd make something up.

[Hypershell]

My fav NamcoBandai characters are by far, Reiji and Xiaomu.

...yeah, I know, the odds of them being in Smash are probably nil.  But crossovers are kinda their thing, and it is fun to think about.  Shinra Bansho: Ultimate would make such an awesome Final Smash.

Consider it more of a hope than anything else. I personally don't want to see Ridley be a playable character because it just seems like a stupid concept.

"Stupid" is a highly relative and subjective term when you're talking about the game series that gave us the Green Missile attack.

The nature of the character select screen means you probably aren't expected to like everyone that's on it (case in point: the Star Fox shenanigans in Brawl).  It's the argument of size itself that I find more "stupid" than arguing against Ridley as a character, because it shows a lack of imagination.  Game design gets to be very boring if nobody behind it knows how to bend a few rules, or defy someone's expectations.  To me it's exactly the same as when people used to say that Mega Man shouldn't have been considered because he'd be too similar to Samus (or Kirby).

I'd argue an uneeded and wishfulilment concept.

Since when is that not all the justification that one needs in a crossover game?

Pills were superior! 

So speaking of Brawl, since I'm going to PAX East this weekend, I will be participating in the Brawl tourney. Since she's so low on the Tier List, I'm gonna rep Zelda! 

Real men use low tier characters anyway. Go get 'em, PB! 

Final Destination is not perfectly balanced in either Brawl or Melee, and this is because certain characters benefit greatly from having no platforms. For instance, projectile characters can gain a huge advantage by camping. Another good example (specifically in Melee) is Marth vs Fox/Falco: because there are no platforms, spacies are very susceptible to easy chain grabs which rack up lots of guaranteed damage.

Hey, *I* won't argue with any of that.  When I say "Melee", I'm referring as much to a pre-Brawl timeframe as I am the game itself; probably a bad choice of words on my part.  Different players will have different points of view, tournaments included.  There are those who agree with you and me, there are those who continue to stick to FD like glue.  The earlier became more prominent following Brawl, is all I meant to say.  Some called Battlefield the new FD, some had the good sense to at least consider multiple "fair" stages.

I'm glad it's not that simple.  It shouldn't be.  As I see it, every rule set is its own niche.  Arguing which is the most balanced usually amounts to somebody claiming why one play style is more "valid" than another, which is not something I'm interested in.

That, incidentally, is why I speak as an observer, not an authority.  I apologize if I mislead you somehow.

[Police Girl]

"Stupid" is a highly relative and subjective term when you're talking about the game series that gave us the Green Missile attack.

The nature of the character select screen means you probably aren't expected to like everyone that's on it (case in point: the Star Fox shenanigans in Brawl).  It's the argument of size itself that I find more "stupid" than arguing against Ridley as a character, because it shows a lack of imagination.  Game design gets to be very boring if nobody behind it knows how to bend a few rules, or defy someone's expectations.  To me it's exactly the same as when people used to say that Mega Man shouldn't have been considered because he'd be too similar to Samus (or Kirby).

Why would anybody think Megaman wouldn't be more original, he can shoot while moving as opposed to Samus needing to stop and charge, and why would people think Megaman would be similar to kirby? The Power obtaining? Last I checked he needs to kill a robot to gain a new power for the most part, its not the TV show.

Ridley is stupid. Like Sakura said, its basically Wishfulfillment and while a lot of crossovers do that, not all of them do and at times they'll snub whatever character for a more popular one. I'll refute again that Metroid doesn't need more than Samus/ZSS to represent the series as a playable character, it fits with the lone bounty hunter image, she's the most important, and honestly, only important character outside of the Metroids themselves.

[Hypershell]

Why would anybody think Megaman wouldn't be more original, he can shoot while moving as opposed to Samus needing to stop and charge, and why would people think Megaman would be similar to kirby? The Power obtaining? Last I checked he needs to kill a robot to gain a new power for the most part, its not the TV show.

Samus's default cannon doesn't even charge, and she most certainly can fire while moving.  Smash Bros. merely restricts her to a stationary Charge Beam for the sake of game balance.  Before Mega Man was revealed, it was largely assumed that he, as most other projectile characters, would take a similar approach.

Also, Mega Man can copy weapons from robots he has defeated but not killed in Powered Up.

Honestly, I'm still wondering how such freely used projectiles can be balanced, but I'm content to wait until the game is released rather than second-guess everything.

Ridley is stupid. Like Sakura said, its basically Wishfulfillment and while a lot of crossovers do that, not all of them do and at times they'll snub whatever character for a more popular one. I'll refute again that Metroid doesn't need more than Samus/ZSS to represent the series as a playable character, it fits with the lone bounty hunter image, she's the most important, and honestly, only important character outside of the Metroids themselves.

Ridley, despite his animal-like appearance, is quite intelligent.
(I know, bad joke, but you kinda walked into that one.)

Serious response: Ridley is key to Samus's backstory.  He is the one who orphaned her before she was adopted by the Chozo.  However the Metroid games are so light on storytelling that they barely bother to mention it.

[Fxeni]

Honestly, I don't quite grasp how Ridley being a playable character is stupid, he has more potential than plenty of other characters.

I want playable Baby Metroid. He would start off weak and easily killable, but he'd get bigger as he attacks. His Final Smash would be Mother Brain's Hyper Beam.