Topic: Rockman Zero Collection Thread

[xnamkcor]

I thought I'd start up a central thread here dedicated to Rockman Zero Collection info.

Rockman Zero: Collection
Nintendo DS
04/22/2010

http://www.capcom.co.jp/rockman/zero/index.html

Questions:
Any additions or removals?
Emulated?
DS can play the games directly?
Will the extra DS buttons be usable?
Will the DS's extra power be used to reduce slowdown?
Any new Music or Voice Acting?
Wifi features(e.g. NWC Scoreboards)?
Any sound re/upsampling?

Additions:
Touch screen Displays Art

[Blackhook]

Don´t we have TWO already?

[xnamkcor]

Don´t we have TWO already?

Are you talking about the threads acting as "comment"s for the news posts?

[Blackhook]

Are you talking about the threads acting as "comment"s for the news posts?

Yeah?

[xnamkcor]

If you are willing to edit and update the initial post with current info and move it to this board, sure. Or we can just use this one. Seems sort of silly to use a news post as an official thread for a game.

[Flame]

He's got a point.
I think.

[Blackhook]

Nah, I don´t mind to have it more organized

[Archer]

I'll probably get it, even if it didn't have anything extra just like I'd get OSS if it came out.

Because I don't have the original anymore.

[Hypershell]

Emulated?
DS can play the games directly?

You know, that's actually an interesting question that hadn't occurred to me.  GBA emulation on the DS (at any sane framerate) is theoretically impossible, due to the cutoff of GBA BIOS files and some of the sound circuitry while in NDS mode.  You can't just run GBA code in DS mode, but maybe for a professional developer with game source code and all it was an easy conversion?  I dunno, but it'd really suck if the only reason we're not seeing the full DS resolution is because they didn't want to draw an extra 16 pixels for the areas that don't vertically scroll.

Hm, now that I think about it, the difference in sound handling may cause some tweaks in that department (compare GBA and NDS Gyakuten Saiban games, it's a minor difference but it's there).

Although not confirmed, there is a strong possibility that we'll be seeing in-game usage of the Z3 e-Reader modification cards.  If so, that'll probably be the main hook of the collection for existing fans (besides just the convenience of 4 titles in one cart, anyway).

[xnamkcor]

You know, that's actually an interesting question that hadn't occurred to me.  GBA emulation on the DS (at any sane framerate) is theoretically impossible, due to the cutoff of GBA BIOS files and some of the sound circuitry while in NDS mode.  You can't just run GBA code in DS mode, but maybe for a professional developer with game source code and all it was an easy conversion?  I dunno, but it'd really suck if the only reason we're not seeing the full DS resolution is because they didn't want to draw an extra 16 pixels for the areas that don't vertically scroll.

Hm, now that I think about it, the difference in sound handling may cause some tweaks in that department (compare GBA and NDS Gyakuten Saiban games, it's a minor difference but it's there)j.

Although not confirmed, there is a strong possibility that we'll be seeing in-game usage of the Z3 e-Reader modification cards.  If so, that'll probably be the main hook of the collection for existing fans (besides just the convenience of 4 titles in one cart, anyway).

Probably ported MMZ to the ZX engine.

[Hypershell]

In terms of source code it's probably the same engine.

So, yesterday, MMN found out that Ippo Yamada is apparently putting some hard work into some new Zero arrangements.  Zero Collection bonus features?  Some unannounced "Zero Gigamix" soundtrack?  Or just fine-tuning for the DS's midi instruments?  No matter what, I'm itching to find out.

[Yllisos Zanon]

One thing I am curious about, what kind of special features will we have, if we have the GBA Zero games in the GBA port.  While playing the collection?

[STM]

The better question is, did you get anything from OSS if you had EXE 1 slotted in?

The answer to that may likely be your answer here.

[Hypershell]

W-Slot was something of a niche-feature as it is; I think ZX's bonuses were unusually significant compared to what other games were doing.  Then of course ZXA had none.  With the DSi out there now, they're only less likely to use it since it's not a given that the entire installed userbase has a GBA slot anymore.  At the very least, if there is anything, I'm sure it'd only be an alternate unlock method.

[OBJECTION MAN]

It is likely not emulated. You can see the second screen reacts to whats going on in the main game. While its technically possible with emulation to achieve this effect (as far as I've seen from screens) it would be awkward and require many work arounds. All in all, I wouldn't bet on emulation being the case.

However, an emulated game could possibly be within reason, technically. Remember that while emulators on the DS now, through means of homebrew, are far less efficient than if it was an officially made emulator.

Case in point, the PSP can emulate PS1 games without skipping a beat. There is a vast difference between officially built emulators as opposed to fan ones. The main difference is, the official emulators are build with full knowledge and documentation available, along with official bios and other utilities freely available to the developers. There is no guess work, or reverse engineering, which leads to a much faster and more accurate emulator.

[Police Girl]

I'm intrested in knowing if the EXE Viruses will be an unlockable in Zero 3 for Cyberspace.

[Klavier Gavin]

The better question is, did you get anything from OSS if you had EXE 1 slotted in?

Yes. You got the EXACT SAME [parasitic bomb].

[STM]

Oh u

[Hypershell]

However, an emulated game could possibly be within reason, technically. Remember that while emulators on the DS now, through means of homebrew, are far less efficient than if it was an officially made emulator.

Case in point, the PSP can emulate PS1 games without skipping a beat. There is a vast difference between officially built emulators as opposed to fan ones. The main difference is, the official emulators are build with full knowledge and documentation available, along with official bios and other utilities freely available to the developers. There is no guess work, or reverse engineering, which leads to a much faster and more accurate emulator.

That is a very, very apples-and-oranges comparison.  The PSP is about 10 times as fast as the PS1 whereas the DS is only about 4 times as fast as the GBA.  Your argument would be more applicable if you were talking about, say, the Genesis or Super Nintendo.  But the GBA is quite a bit faster.

If this were the DSi, then maybe I could buy the whole professional development edge in getting GBA emulation out there.  But on the plain old DS, I just don't see it happening.

[OBJECTION MAN]

MHz are not an accurate indicator of processor power when comparing. Different models and other factors play a large part in this. The 333MHz mode is also overclocking the PSP processor. It is designed to be a 222MHz chip. Nor is four times the MHz a valid gauge in not enough power to emulate. The N64 processor was clocked at 93.75 MHz, while the Gamecube was clocked at 486 MHz. This is a bit under 5 times the MHz, yet the GC flawlessly emulated some N64 games.

The point of the comparison was; the PSP homebrew PS1 emulator ran at 1.5 frames per second, usually. The official one runs at full speed always.

In addition, even official emulation is usually not refined enough to be 100% compatible with all games without constant updates and patches. For single games, or collections such as this game, it is suited best. For wide range use, patches and updates are required. This is why Nintendo, put a hardware chip in. This was to ensure the compatibility to the highest level, for an already vast library of games. The same can be seen in the PS3 models. The original had the PS2 chipset, and had vastly superior compatibility when compared to the PS3's second model which used software emulation. In addition, I hear the software emulator takes up roughly 10GB of space on the PS3's HDD. That exorbitant size is undoubtedly for patches and other hacks for compatibility issues.

I would believe an official emulator could run GBA games at full speed on a DS.

[xnamkcor]

GC flawlessly emulated some N64 games.

Even a current PC can't flawlessly emulate N64 yet(why did they have to make it so complicated?). First hand knowledge of the architecture and hardware helps great deals in emulating.

Also, the similarity in architecture between DS and GBA would also lend itself to easier emulation.

Of course, this is all speculation, and they're probably running it under a modified ZX engine. Running a game from an old platform on a new platform by using its successor's engine, which was a modification of the old platform's game. I'm sure it's been done before.

[Align]

We needed another thread:
http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=3462.msg202227;topicseen#new

[Hypershell]

The 333MHz mode is also overclocking the PSP processor. It is designed to be a 222MHz chip.

Your information is outdated.  Although I'm unaware of when PS1 emulation coincides with this, one of the firmware updates allows the PSP to officially run at 333MHz (3.5, I think).

[OBJECTION MAN]

Your information is outdated.  Although I'm unaware of when PS1 emulation coincides with this, one of the firmware updates allows the PSP to officially run at 333MHz (3.5, I think).

It is still overclocking, regardless. Official overclocking is still overclocking. Developers got the OK to use the overclock mode about two years ago.

[Hypershell]

Did you see the term "overclocking" anywhere in my response?  I was talking about where you said "designed to be".  That implies the use of the PSP at 333MHz is outside its official specifications.  There was a time when that was true.  At current, it is not.  The 222MHz limit existed only because Sony willed it so, and they removed it.  That simple.

Are we done derailing the thread now?