What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?

[Flame]

GO GO ZX RANGERS!

[Galappan]

There should be a Pink Mega Ranger!!!

[spoiler]

Tah dah! 
[/spoiler]

[HokutoNoBen]

Well, that's all up to personal preference, which is part of what the entire appeal of multiple forms is: customization to your own play style. 

Well, of course, this boils down to personal preference. That much goes without saying. But like with some other types of games, like fighting games, the game is not at all balanced for each play-style, so there really does exist a thing where, a player could stand to probably stick with an all-around/top-tier form like ZX, and never have much reason to go with anything else.

This is the thing that I was talking about in my original post. If it came down to it, I would rather see Inti do more to focus on elaborating the original 6 forms (X, ZX, Shi-Ten-Oh), give each form the works as far as making it as "playable" as possible. Hell, take a note from the likes of DMC3, where each style had a number of different "moves" that you could learn. That would speak to me a lot more, than doing anything similar to what we had in ZXA.

As much as I like to jump into a fight and get my hands dirty, I'm also quite adept at planting myself in a proper position before I strike.  Comes a lot from my Zero fandom, I suppose; PS1 games have no walking attack and, save X4, pitiful dashing moves, while the Zero/ZX games punish you in attack strength for slashing while walking.

In the PS games, Dash-Canceling was even more of your best friend than it was in the Zero series.

Hit the Attack Button, lightly tap Dash to cancel the animation of Zero's first slash, this then allows you to either a) get Zero moving or b) start the slash again, so that you can lather, rinse, repeat. If you had good dexterity with your fingers, this was probably one of the single best tactics to do with Zero.

This was more of "exploit", rather than perhaps something that was intended by Capcom, but it was nice way to make Zero a speedier character, such that you didn't have to have "commit" to Zero's 3 step-slash again and again.

[Flame]

Turbo button +Zero + X6 = bai bai.

[Hypershell]

Well, of course, this boils down to personal preference. That much goes without saying. But like with some other types of games, like fighting games, the game is not at all balanced for each play-style, so there really does exist a thing where, a player could stand to probably stick with an all-around/top-tier form like ZX, and never have much reason to go with anything else.

The thing is, though, that Model ZX is an extraordinarily boring form.  Z1 Zero had more abilities than that, not to mention better range on the saber (and better strength on the charged saber).  But ZX just happens to have overall attack strength on its side.  This and the fact that the Model which is story-wise set up to be the next starter is so ludicrously powerful are among the reasons why I believe ZX3 needs to revamp the damage system entirely.  Ever since Day 1 Inticreates gave a far greater advantage to the charged buster (as compared to rapid-fire) than any previous Classic/X title, and Model X adds to the imbalance further.  Not that I don't love it, I do, but if that's going to be our new standard then things simply need to be reworked.

This is the thing that I was talking about in my original post. If it came down to it, I would rather see Inti do more to focus on elaborating the original 6 forms (X, ZX, Shi-Ten-Oh), give each form the works as far as making it as "playable" as possible.

While most could stand adjustment, I do believe that, Model ZX aside, a very minor upgrade would suffice.  All of the "Model" forms are pretty well playable as it is, those who claim otherwise are simply people who think that their own preferences are standardized.  Model PX is near worthless to me, but I don't go around the boards saying that it contributes nothing to the game.  What doesn't work for me can work very well for others.

As I said above, Model ZX has no real special abilities to call its own, and nothing that contributes to "navigation" or maneuverability over the other forms in any way.  It merely has high attack strength.  Additional moves, be they to new forms or to existing ones, will solve nothing.  With the possible exception of L, they already have all the variance they need.  If anything Model ZX is the one that needs new abilities, what the others need is respectable charge attack strength.

In the PS games, Dash-Canceling was even more of your best friend than it was in the Zero series.

Besides being an OBVIOUS physics exploit, you only furthered my point.  Dash-cancelling is not a dashing attack, it is a standing attack.  You only hit the dash button to improve your rate of fire.

And if you think dash-canceling is the only way to avoid committing to the 3-slash combo, you need to play the PS1 games more.  It's just the easy way out.  Even without it, tactics against certain enemies in X4/5, including Jet Stingray, Magma Dragoon, Grizzly Slash, Skiver, and the U-555, benefit from repeated use of single slashes.  You don't have to utterly break the game through dash-canceling to do that, a sense of rhythm will suffice.

[HokutoNoBen]

Dash-cancelling is not a dashing attack, it is a standing attack.  You only hit the dash button to improve your rate of fire.

Be that as it may, it STILL does gives you forward momentum (the factor depending more how much you allow Zero to go forward from the dash before you cancel it). If you have good fingers, it might as well be a dashing attack, because the frames for when you're doing the "standing attack" will be fundamentally negligible. Hell, in a number of ways, it's better, because again, the ability to cancel the animation gives the player more options to work with, which is always a good thing.

And if you think dash-canceling is the only way to avoid committing to the 3-slash combo, you need to play the PS1 games more.  It's just the easy way out.  Even without it, tactics against certain enemies in X4/5, including Jet Stingray, Magma Dragoon, Grizzly Slash, Skiver, and the U-555, benefit from repeated use of single slashes.  You don't have to utterly break the game through dash-canceling to do that, a sense of rhythm will suffice.

Sure, it, and other methods can suffice, but why bother when you have a tool that can do the job better, and more? 

It's just like dash shot in X1 and X2. Sure, you could stick with regular rapid fire (without the additional attack boost that the dash gives you), but unless you were in it for the challenge, you would go with something that would do more to compliment the notion of "playing to win", correct?

[Satoryu]

i'm sorry, but Model Xx? that's just silly. how the hell can Model X Double Rock On with itself? and don't say there are two Model X's, cause there aren't.

[Protoman Blues]

how the hell can Model X Double Rock On with itself?

This sounds like Modelsturbation to me!

[Sakura Leic]

i'm sorry, but Model Xx? that's just silly. how the hell can Model X Double Rock On with itself? and don't say there are two Model X's, cause there aren't.

Even more ridculous than having a random NPC from the previous game be a Megaman.

[Satoryu]

Even more ridculous than having a random NPC from the previous game be a Megaman.

sadly, i can see that happening.

[Sakura Leic]

sadly, i can see that happening.

Unless you mean Vent and Aile then NOOOOOOOOOO!

[Zechs]

Even more ridculous than having a random NPC from the previous game be a Megaman.

I suppose that would make 'Pierre' more refined from Advent...

[Tickle Buffalo]

There should be a Pink Mega Ranger!!!

But there is a pink Megaranger.



She's like right there.

[Align]

-(M)/(R) can use DRO(Double Rock On.) on the Big4 Models. But (M)/(R) are still dominant, Meaning no element/colour change but rather just a few added abilities and an secondary attack. it is equipped on the pause menu rather then having an quickmenu alá ZX/ZXA.

this is a bad idea

the more similar they are the less interesting they are

[Hypershell]

Sure, it, and other methods can suffice, but why bother when you have a tool that can do the job better, and more? 

It's just like dash shot in X1 and X2. Sure, you could stick with regular rapid fire (without the additional attack boost that the dash gives you), but unless you were in it for the challenge, you would go with something that would do more to compliment the notion of "playing to win", correct?

Yeah, but there's a difference between playing to win and cheating.  I may be utterly addicted to Xtreme2 Ultimate Buster pjwnage, but I don't dash-cancel.  Known about it for years and don't really give a damn.

[Satoryu]

Yeah, but there's a difference between playing to win and cheating.  I may be utterly addicted to Xtreme2 Ultimate Buster pjwnage, but I don't dash-cancel.  Known about it for years and don't really give a damn.

i don't see the difference.

[Align]

I do, but I can't put my finger on it.

[Boiled_Egg]

i'm sorry, but Model Xx? that's just silly. how the hell can Model X Double Rock On with itself? and don't say there are two Model X's, cause there aren't.

Well, I will admit it is silly but since my basic story idea was that Ciel was captured by Thomas. So i don´t see why she couldn´t make an PsuedoLM with only battle data, Rather then both battle data and soul... And also, Copy X anyone? (Perfect copy... Physically atleast, i don´t see why he couldn´t become an LM if other people then Ciel gains knowledge on how to make them.)

That actually brings up an good question, If Albert created one Rockman per LM the why are there 2 Model X chosen ones? I mean the A ones are both "mistakes" so to speak. [Insert Rant Here.]

this is a bad idea

the more similar they are the less interesting they are

The basic idea was that DRO was an armor system while you "weapon get"s from the 8bosses for the elemental octagon. But can see where you are coming from.

[Satoryu]

And also, Copy X anyone?

Model C

[Zan]

i don't see the difference.

One triggers the damage barrier, the other does not.

[Hypershell]

^

[HokutoNoBen]

Yeah, but there's a difference between playing to win and cheating. 

Correct. But are you saying that Dash-Canceling, the Dash-Shot and the like, are "cheating"?

Exploits? Sure, because that's what they are: utilizing aspects of the game or the game engine to your advantage, that may not have been what the original developer intended. But who cares, it becomes a part of the "meta-game" any way. But I think you and I have quite different definitions of what constitutes as "cheating", to say the least.

[Protoman Blues]

But I think you and I have quite different definitions of what constitutes as "cheating", to say the least.

George Constanza - "Oh God?"

Married Woman - "What?"

George Constanza - "I've committed adultery!"

Married Woman - "No George.  I've committed adultery."

George Constanza - "Hmm!"

[Ketsurui Chinoumi]

If Albert created one Rockman per LM the why are there 2 Model X chosen ones?

Either Aile or Vent could be the Model X chosen ones, that's why you can only play as one of them per game. The commercial for Rockman ZX just made that confusing.

[Hypershell]

For the last time:

The idea that any Biometal cannot match with any Chosen One is fanon.  Nowhere is it stated that the number of Biometal fragments available had any influence on the number of Chosen Ones he selected (Albert can assign as many Model W fragments as he wants, which is exactly what he would have done anyway before Ciel attempted to counter it, so it's a moot point), that is speculation.  Fun speculation, but still speculation.

Vent and Aile coexist, as was established in ZX pre-release videos, re-established in ZXA's ciphers, and re-established AGAIN by developer interview.  They are both Chosen Ones according to ZXA, but only one finds Model X.

Correct. But are you saying that Dash-Canceling, the Dash-Shot and the like, are "cheating"?

*smacks Ben's face in with a frying pan*

Magic fish is on vacation.

Call anything you like whatever you want, but do not put words in my mouth.  Zan's response should have made it evident what I'm talking about, but to prevent any misunderstanding let me be absolutely clear: When I refer to dash-canceling I am not talking about the simple ability to dash out of a combo.  I'm talking about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2FXLTTNgXQ
(unable to find a video of its use against a boss, but it allows infinite stationary repeated hits at a lightning pace)

The dash-shot is a simple attack programmed to do more damage than a normal shot, there is no question of developer intent.  Dash-canceling is most obviously not, it has been given no official reference despite originating in a title well over a decade old, and has been broken and/or disabled in all but two saber-featuring games, be it by default or through game progress.  It's a glitch in the engine and nothing more.  Sometimes developer intent is overwritten and "unforeseen" techniques may be taken into account in sequels, this is true, but only if game balance is preserved.  The complete negation of the damage barrier doesn't fall under that by any stretch of the imagination.

We have had the meta-game discussion a million times already in Smash Bros. threads, Ben, I have no desire to continue such a fruitless waste of energy.  Any given meta-game is defined by the fans, and exists only to those who honor it.  What constitutes the "main" play style is entirely subjective, ESPECIALLY in a single-player game.