Topic: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 (Wii, PS3, 360, iPhone)

[Jericho]

No [tornado fang]ing way... Yasuhara? How the [tornado fang] did they rope him in from Naughty Dog?

[Gotham Ranger]

See, that would be great.

Here's the porblem. It's Takashi Iizuka. http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3#Production_Credits

"Senior Game Designers: Takashi Iizuka,"

And Iizuka is not only still very active, but very unpopular with the fans for certain mishaps (NiGHTS sequel, anyone?)

[Flame]

I have to agree on the "just a name" thing.
It's not just a name. It is named Sonic 4. and therefore, it has a big name to live up to. Sonic 3&Knuckles. You cant make a long awaited sequel after many failures and unpopular moves, and just name it Sonic 4 without living up to expectations or there WILL be a backlash.

[Alice in Entropy]

I understand where you guys are coming from, and I agree that it's a risky move on Sega's part, but why compare it to Sonic 3 and Knuckles? That game is pretty much legendary amongst the fanbase. It's highly unlikely Sega could now try to achieve that same level of awesomeness. Rather than comparing it to something you should know that, at this stage in their career, Sega can never hope to equal, why not just try the game out and see how fun it is in its own right?

[Fxeni]

I understand where you guys are coming from, and I agree that it's a risky move on Sega's part, but why compare it to Sonic 3 and Knuckles? That game is pretty much legendary amongst the fanbase. It's highly unlikely Sega could now try to achieve that same level of awesomeness. Rather than comparing it to something you should know that, at this stage in their career, Sega can never hope to equal, why not just try the game out and see how fun it is in its own right?

Listen to this. Just like I've had to say to most series revivals nowadays (which makes me so sad) how about we wait to see how the final game is before we start bitching about it. It's one thing to speculate, it's another to whine away about things that are so minuscule and might not even be final.

[Nekomata]

To all those complaining about the game's name: It's just a [tornado fang]ing name.

Sonic fans don't have common sense.

[Hypershell]

but why compare it to Sonic 3 and Knuckles?

Because it's what the name "STH4" directly references.  It makes S3&K the game's immediate predecessor in the series.

Now not every sequel game equals/surpasses their predecessor, and that doesn't make them bad games.  Does Super Mario World surpass Super Mario Bros. 3?  I don't think anybody really cares.  But the quality of the titles should be at least comparable, ESPECIALLY when attempting a long-absent revival.

What is further detrimental to Sega here is that 2D Sonic didn't actually go anywhere; we've had 5 brand new titles across two handheld generations.  Sega digging up the STH line is not referencing a genre which they were absent from (Mario), nor a particular timeline/cast of characters long given the shaft (MegaMan).  It's referencing what separated the STH line from ALL Sonic games since, including every one of Dimps' projects.  Take whatever lost aspect of the STH series that you will; it's one hell of a promise.  Can you blame people for being skeptical as to whether or not Sega is actually up to it?

So, to call a game Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is to try and sell the consumer, being us, that this game is going to finally give new life to the classic Genesis series of old and bring back the good times and good memories that Playable Super Sonic has brought so many of us in the past, just how Mega Man 9 did to a generation of fans who grew up with the classic games of olden times

It's funny you should bring up 9.  Because, even though I like MM9, I do see a certain correlation between (some of) what I dislike about 9 and what direction STH4 is seemingly taking (unless Sega is saving a few bombshells for us, anyway).

Namely, that there is such a thing as going TOO basic in the attempt to "go back to roots".  9 disables the slide unless you're ProtoMan (double damage/knockback).  Not my favorite design choice.  Whereas the NES era encompasses 6 titles with a massive variety to them 9 and 10 are very clearly derived from the first two, and unlike games such as New Super Mario Bros., virtually discard the advancements that the sequels made.  Most of the "new age" stuff they tried to do for 9 didn't turn out so well (shop is horrid), besides the new game modes like Endless Attack.

I think that a "Sonic solo" game, which is what STH4 has been advertised as so far (especially if non-Super), is repeating Capcom/Inticreates' mistake (and they did the same thing with Model ZX's abilities).  Let's assume for the sake of argument that DIMPS gets the level design and gameplay absolutely perfect.  You're still looking at STH1 + spindash and homing attack, which is not what STH4 should be.



The name is just one more thing for the pile.  Wii's limited system memory and my general distaste for the use of digitally distributed games are also factoring in (getting low-dev-cost games out there is one thing, but a lot of devs simply want to replace physical media in order to kill used sales and tighten their grip on the consumer; somehow I don't think a 4-episode title is going to add up to a cheap price).  Bottom line: Sega's made some gutsy moves and they DEFINITELY have something to prove if they want to justify them.

[Flame]

What he said. ^

[Bag of Magic Food]

It's not just Sega, though. Plenty of others have learned the hard way what happens when you just attach a name to a series all "willy-nilly".

Hey, shouldn't Sega have already learned this, from that time a few years ago, when they came out with this weird 3D game that they called simply "Sonic the Hedgehog", even though there was already a game with that exact same name from like fifteen years earlier?

Or do we really need to bring up the likes of some of Capcom's own mistakes, like "Final Fight Revenge" and "Final Fight Streetwise"?  

Don't forget "Street Fighter 2010: The Final Fight"!  


And now back to "You're nitpicking too much!"  "You're not nitpicking enough!"

[Alice in Entropy]

The game isn't even out yet. At least wait until you've played the damned thing before complaining about the name.

This is the most retarded argument I've ever been in.

[Bag of Magic Food]

What's worse: complaining about a game that's not out yet, or complaining about complaining about a game that's not out yet?

[Alice in Entropy]

What's worse: complaining about a game that's not out yet, or complaining about complaining about a game that's not out yet?

Or complaining about complaining about complaining about a game that's not out yet? We could go on ad nauseum. And at the end of the day, none of us are right.

I'm not complaining, I'm just hoping people will stop whining and at least give it a chance. But as we all know...

Sonic fans don't have common sense.

[Hypershell]

Besides Ben I'm not sure how many people have refused to give the game a chance.  What I hope for and what I expect are two very different things, but neither are certain.

I just think it's foolish to say that an S3&K comparison is not called for when Sega has named this project, not only by title but also by storyline mind you, as S3&K's direct sequel.  Whether they gave two shits about what that actually meant is something we have yet to see, but the fact remains they invited it themselves.

[Satoryu]

Sonic fans don't have common sense.

I realized this 2 seconds after I posted. It's like talking into a wall that makes their own crappy Mary-Sue-hogs.

What's worse: complaining about a game that's not out yet, or complaining about complaining about a game that's not out yet?

Sonic 06 

[Mirby]

First off, Sonic the Hedgehog 4 may be a name to some people, but to others it's been a long time coming and the fact Sega chose this name shows that they're trying to make amends. They're using the name as a major selling point to the repeatedly dissapointed fan base, the people much like some of us here who think that the past games have been a major mistake (I don't think that personally).

Secondly, S3&K was great, but is it possible that some of our memories of it have been clouded by time and childhood glee? Yes, it had lots of stages. Yes, the music was cool. Yes, there was MOAR LOCK-ON! But... I hate to be honest here, but I had more fun with RA than I did with S3&K. Yes, the original Sonic games were fast, colorful, fun... but it seems like the examples given here are hyperbolic descriptions of what S3&K is. Go play it if you can, and tell me if it's exactly as you remember. If it is, then your arguments stand. Otherwise, I'm right and adolescent adoration has altered your memory of the game. If the latter is true, then nothing could possibly live up to it, because your memory of it is not the true game; it is something greater than S3&K ever was. Your only hope is that they make it match your altered perception of an admittedly great game, albeit one that may not be as you remember it.

Thirdly, Homing attack does have a good purpose in sidescrollers; it can help you get across large gaps with an extra push, it can create a combo of pwnage on a bunch of enemies, it can show you hidden things (if you use it at the right moment). And Spin Dash has been a series staple since 2; if they removed it just to get back to the good old days of Sonic 1, then we'd be even angrier.

Fourth, maybe Sega should take a page from New Super Mario Bros. Yes, NSMB is 3D (like STH4), and it does have modern moves (like the Wall Jump) and it's 2.5D. Actually, I think that's exactly what Sega is doing here. And NSMB is one of the most fun Mario games in a while because of the nostalgia factor. So maybe this is exactly what Sonic needs. A hearkening back to the days of Mega Drive while retaining a few gameplay elements from the days of Dreamcast and beyond.

Lastly, maybe we should stop picking apart every tiny tidbit of new info the moment it comes out and wait until there's a new major update to analyze it. Because right now all we're doing is being hypercritical and overcynical of everything that comes out about this.

Actually, one last point. STOP ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF IMMATURE TODDLERS WHO LOVE TO ARGUE ABOUT ARGUING AND ACTUALLY LOOK AT WHAT'S GOOD ABOUT THIS! ALL YOU'RE [tornado fang]ing DOING RIGHT NOW IS LOOKING AT EVERYTHING THAT COULD GO WRONG WITH THIS! "WAAAA! THE JUMP SUCKS! WAAAAA! IT'S NAMED SONIC 4, THAT SIGNALS FAILURE! WAAAAA! THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THISTHIS THIS THIS THIS" STOP BEING A BUNCH OF DOOMSAYING WHINERS AND BE GLAD THAT SEGA IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO RIGHT THEIR [tornado fang]ing WRONGS INSTEAD OF DOING THE SAME MISTAKES OVER AND OVER AGAIN LIKE THEY HAVE FOR THE PAST DECADE! God...

That wasn't directed at PB or Nekomata or any of the more mature users here. Just at the people who are arguing apparently for the sake of arguing, not to actually make some sort of point.

[Bag of Magic Food]

I'm not complaining, I'm just hoping people will stop whining and at least give it a chance. But as we all know...

Well, what else is there to talk about before the game comes out?  If there's nothing good to say about it, then nobody will say anything good about it.

[Satoryu]

Go play it if you can, and tell me if it's exactly as you remember. If it is, then your arguments stand.

I play it all the time. And it's still as awesome as I remember. Hell, I learn new things in the game sometimes, making it even awesomer. S3K is my favorite game of all time, and nostalgia is not the driving factor of that despite it being my first game. No other game has been able to match the amount of enjoyment I get out of S3K.

And comparing Rush Adventure to S3K? Ouch. To me, that's like comparing A New Hope to The Phantom Menace; there's no contest.

[Hypershell]

I play it all the time. And it's still as awesome as I remember.

[commandycan]

Well, what else is there to talk about before the game comes out?  If there's nothing good to say about it, then nobody will say anything good about it.

Is there anything about it that's been largely considered "bad" by a general consensus of people who have been looking forward to this game to talk about? I mean, being doubtful is one thing, but outright bashing based on, as far as it can be told, speculation, is another. As it's been said time and time again, be your own judge as it comes out. Are people not allowed to have individual opinions anymore?

[Flame]

Sonic 06 

Was very fun.

Also, a bad jump is actually a pretty big thing. Especially in the game that has you jump a lot. Classic sonic is about Spindash and jumping on baddies. a bad jump in 4 would be pretty significant to nag about, since that is a basic concept. how the hell can that possibly be screwed up? Yknow?

Now, Im still getting this game, but

ALL YOU'RE [tornado fang]ing DOING RIGHT NOW IS LOOKING AT EVERYTHING THAT COULD GO WRONG WITH THIS!

Because Sega with Sonic is like Murphy's law incarnate. if theres something that they can mess up, they usually will.

[Alice in Entropy]

Because Sega with Sonic is like Murphy's law incarnate.

Silly Flame, that's Afro!

[Mirby]

BUT... You don't have to follow that by anticipating it every time. It is possible, nay probable from what I've seen, that Sega's finally doing something right for a change. I'm just tired of looking into this topic and seeing nothing but BAWWWWW!
Look, instead of anticipating a failure (because if you do that, when you play it all you won't enjoy it because of your mindset), be glad that they're trying to go back to what made Sonic fun. Speed and pure sidescrolling on a console. Now for some specific responses.

@Sato: since you said that, I respect your opinion. You have modern experience to back it up.
@BoMF: Just... shut... up... You're arguing about the fact that Lucky Star doesn't want to argue. That is just retarded. Counter intuitive. And if you ask me, a bit off-topic. You're not even talking about Sonic anymore. So just shut the [tornado fang] up and quit your bitchin'.
@Flame: Is it not possible this is a pre-release build? One that hasn't have everything tweaked to perfection? If it is, of course the jump is bad; they haven't perfected it yet!

If you want to [sonic slicer] and complain about every little thing about this game, wait until you see a final release build. Then you'll know exactly how they [tornado fang]'d up; some mistakes may not have been corrected yet at this stage in time! So there's no point in complaining about them if, in all probability, they're being worked on as we speak.

[Jericho]

ITT: Sonic is confirmed to be a master level troll. The simple mention of his name gets people raging over nothing.

[Alice in Entropy]

ITT: Sonic is confirmed to be a master level troll. The simple mention of his name gets people raging over nothing.

How great would it be if this entire game, right down to the name and the flaws, was carefully planned out by Sega in advance just to troll the fanbase?

[Mirby]

They'll delay this until December 22, 2012, the day AFTER the apocalypse.