Topic: Metroid Discussion Thread

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

The green is pretty bright though... (seeing so upon my low% run of the game (3% so far, although it could've been 2%, but ah well, a minor mistake.)

Hopefully they'll tweak the target reaction to be a click faster if they are to keep the pixel/investigative hunts in the next "Other M" game (I personally hope they do.  They got the mechanics down very nicely (albeit needing some tweaking/fixing here and there) and they can definitely do a more open world next time around ).

[The Blind Archer]

Dunno if this was posted yet, but I found this article through TV Tropes.  It's in regards to that one scene, for those of you who haven't played or spoiled it for yourselves yet.

http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/story/81909/ptsd-or-weakness-real-experts-on-why-samus-didnt-shoot/

Looks like either the writers got lucky, or did extensive research on post-traumatic stress disorder.  Either way, this was an interesting read.

[Mirby]

Hahaha, all those idiots just got pwned.

Seriously, it's PTSD, and it's good to see that they accurately portrayed it. ^.^

[Fxeni]

Still think a short flashback of some sort (which the fricken commercial actually does well enough) ingame would have solidified it for people. As it stands it's too open, and people who have no experience with the backstory of Samus won't get the issues Samus has with Ridley. Did the game do a good job of displaying PTSD? Yes. Did it do a good job at explaining why Samus has PTSD? Afraid not. The people that were interviewed there were told of Samus' backstory before viewing the scene, the majority of the complainers were not informed of said backstory properly. I stand firmly in that.

Just to reiterate, I already knew of her past so I could understand what she was going through. A lot of people that played the game did not have this luxury however, so I can see why they would react the way they did. Not to mention PTSD is sadly brushed under the rug a little bit too often, sadly.

[Align]

Here's some Fridge Logic that maybe you guys can help explain (or maybe the game does it later I dunno):
Why the #¤"&!@$ does Samus disable things like the Varia Suit and Space Jump in the first place?

The power bombs are perfectly justified in-game, missiles I can buy as well for being inaccurate blast damage, maybe even the different beams to minimize casualties in case any marine suddenly jumps into the line of fire or whatever... But why stop her from getting around easily? Why would Adam even want that? He certainly doesn't say anything about them at the beginning.

And why aren't these things enabled when I first step onto the Bottle Ship?!

[Satoryu]

Items are only activated when they're absolutely necessary. Varia is kinda the exception, however the heat damage was not that severe at all. Being stuck in the boss fight for x amount of time, however, Samus may not survive.

I guess. It's gameplay design, not story design.

The green is pretty bright though... (seeing so upon my low% run of the game (3% so far, although it could've been 2%, but ah well, a minor mistake.)

No you didn't make a mistake. 3% is the lowest you can get on Normal. There's 2 energy tanks and a missile you have to pick up.

[Align]

Yeah it was story I meant. She disabled missiles when Adam disliked her using them without permission, presumably because they're dangerous (rather than because he MUST have CONTROL over EVERY LITTLE THING, which would be silly), but what kind of risk could the Space Jump possibly pose to the squad?

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

No you didn't make a mistake. 3% is the lowest you can get on Normal. There's 2 energy tanks and a missile you have to pick up.

I picked up another missile by accident during...just before you hit the second switch to turn the power on. (the little Morph Ball hallway w/ the lil' falling blocks you explode on the way.)

Now i'm 4% so far lol.

[Hypershell]

Items are only activated when they're absolutely necessary. Varia is kinda the exception, however the heat damage was not that severe at all. Being stuck in the boss fight for x amount of time, however, Samus may not survive.

I guess. It's gameplay design, not story design.

Indeed.  I'll quote The Game Overthinker on this one:

"Instead of roaming the lava area looking for the fire-proof armor, you're looking for the point at which Mr. Voice tells you to turn on the fire-proof armor."

Yeah, I don't get disabling purely defensive upgrades either, but the gameplay is identical in any case.

Yeah it was story I meant. She disabled missiles when Adam disliked her using them without permission, presumably because they're dangerous (rather than because he MUST have CONTROL over EVERY LITTLE THING, which would be silly), but what kind of risk could the Space Jump possibly pose to the squad?

I still say that, if criticizing the story implications, one should not sweep under the rug the fact that Samus herself activates none of that fancy stuff even before meeting Adam, not to mention a particular aspect of the escape sequence.  Samus of her own will takes a very minimalist approach in the game.

Still think a short flashback of some sort (which the fricken commercial actually does well enough) ingame would have solidified it for people. As it stands it's too open, and people who have no experience with the backstory of Samus won't get the issues Samus has with Ridley.

That much I'll give you.  Even a full-on flashback as opposed to the image of a little girl standing on the Bottle Ship would have done a lot better.  Only Fusion (and by extension Zero Mission, if you've linked/hacked them) has thus far touched on the issue in-game.  Still, given that you know the backstory, I think the scene works exceptionally well.

[Align]

Okay I have beaten the game and am not quite happy with the story. Ridley scene could've been a flashback to the first time they fought and it would've made perfect sense to me since they already demonstrated that Samus was entirely human when she was younger (which we wouldn't know from previous games), but this is like the 5th time he gets revived and she has to put him down, and only now do the symptoms manifest? ...It may be psychologically accurate, but in video games you're supposed to go with what feels realistic, not what actually is.

But I actually had a bigger problem with the Sector Zero cutscene. It was rather unclear why Adam shot Samus - his explanation made no sense, he shot her so she wouldn't shoot the infant with her superior weaponry that would work wherever his did and then some - although I could buy that it was just an excuse and actually meant to stop her from going into S0 instead of him. More than that, I had little emotional connection with Adam (and by extension his heroic sacrifice) since I had only seen him talk for all of like 20 seconds total. Faceless orders don't count, at all. And probably most irritating, Samus reacting exactly like she did when she was an emotional teenager suggests she hasn't matured at all - meaning she's a girl, not a woman.

Posted on: 2010-10-16, 22:53:21Only real other complaint is that the music sucks.

[Flame]

Really? I found the music quite good. What little there was that wasnt just ambiance stuff.

All the other stuff goes back down to bad writing.

[Align]

It doesn't hurt to listen to it but that's about as far as I'm willing to go. It's very bland, like stuff out of a film (Disney films notwithstanding).

[Hypershell]

Well, since they were clearly going for a cinematic presentation, that's not too surprising.  I will admit, though, the fact that very near the entire soundtrack is atmospheric leaves little memorable themes besides those which are remixed from/inspired by past ones (title theme, Ridley, and "the story thus far" screens).

Ridley scene could've been a flashback to the first time they fought and it would've made perfect sense to me since they already demonstrated that Samus was entirely human when she was younger (which we wouldn't know from previous games), but this is like the 5th time he gets revived and she has to put him down, and only now do the symptoms manifest? ...It may be psychologically accurate, but in video games you're supposed to go with what feels realistic, not what actually is.

What part of "Samus thought she put Ridley behind her" do people not understand?  We expect him to be there by "it's a game" logic simply because he's the next most recurring enemy after the title creatures, but the in-story rationale is that the Space Pirates are toast and as such nobody is around who would WANT to revive him.

But I actually had a bigger problem with the Sector Zero cutscene. It was rather unclear why Adam shot Samus - his explanation made no sense, he shot her so she wouldn't shoot the infant with her superior weaponry that would work wherever his did and then some - although I could buy that it was just an excuse and actually meant to stop her from going into S0 instead of him.

Well, good, because that's EXACTLY why he did it.  Adam decided ahead of time what he was going to do, and he knew Samus would never go along with it.  Heck, Samus said so herself earlier with Anthony, if another allegedly no-win situation would arise, she would still take her chances because it's "who she is."  Adam knows that.  Samus will not make the same compromises that he would.  And if for any reason the player didn't get that, her mirroring her words from Ian's sacrifice should have beat them over the head with it.

And probably most irritating, Samus reacting exactly like she did when she was an emotional teenager suggests she hasn't matured at all - meaning she's a girl, not a woman.

That was already addressed in her monologue after flashing back with Anthony.  She's matured in that she better understands why Adam did what he did, even why he was right to do so, and how difficult it must have been even if he wouldn't show it.  But that still doesn't mean she'd act as he would.  She already stated directly, to herself at least (Anthony let it go) that she wouldn't.

[Flame]

Also, I found the Adam/Sector Zero scene to be awesome. When Adam was finally going in and Samus was banging on the door and then gives her thumbs down to him, I was already slightly tearing up.

[Align]

Yeah, other people did as well, but it did nothing for me.
And why are you yelling HOLD IT at me and then agreeing with me?

[Hypershell]

Get equipped with Ace Attorney.  It's the general "interrupt for more details" phrase.  If I believed you to be flat-out wrong, you'd have gotten the OBJECTION! instead.

Also, "although I could buy" implies that you believed that to be a hypothetical scenario, whereas I very much believe that to truly be what was going on.

[Align]

I would say that was definitely what was going on, except it wasn't outright said in the story, so ultimately it's a theory.

Let's talk about Ridley once more (THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING)
Why wouldn't Samus get equally upset the first time he's revived - Metroid Prime 1, I think? - when she's bound to be just as unprepared for his return?
And, are we dismissing Prime 3's Pirate Home World canonicity? I mean, they weren't Zebesians, but Ridley was a Space Pirate leader, wasn't he?

[Ephidiel]

I would say that was definitely what was going on, except it wasn't outright said in the story, so ultimately it's a theory.

Let's talk about Ridley once more (THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING)
Why wouldn't Samus get equally upset the first time he's revived - Metroid Prime 1, I think? - when she's bound to be just as unprepared for his return?
And, are we dismissing Prime 3's Pirate Home World canonicity? I mean, they weren't Zebesians, but Ridley was a Space Pirate leader, wasn't he?

Prime series kinda removed from the canon though o__o
and in Metroid 1 ridley fled heavily wounded

[Align]

I kinda realized he's never been assumed dead on a planet that exploded before, too. For some reason I thought that happened at the end of Prime 1...
So I guess it would be reasonable of her to be surprised at him coming back after being atomized rather than seemingly shot to death.

Then again the Pirates work [tornado fang]ing fast. In Zero Mission he lands like 4 hours in, then you kill him shortly after, then some 2-4 hours later you fight MECHA RIDLEY!!! So it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to take off from Zebes with his remains while Samus is otherwise occupied.

[Flame]

The other metroid games have never been too big in the story deparment. often telling it from lore, and events in game. We rarely see Samus reaction to anything other than "body language". For all we know, Samus Jaw drops and her eyes widen in disbelief every time she sees ridley.

Also, the "Zebesians" thing. thats Other M. For some reason, they decided to make "Space Pirate" Synonymous with "Zebesian"

[Align]

I've been reading up on the wiki and the manga (the one simply called Metroid). The wiki claims that the Pirates that conquered Zebes (and altered themselves to live on it, according to the manga) renamed themselves Zebesians and considered it their home world, though they were still basically Space Pirates..
The manga also deals with Samus reaction to Ridley - much stronger than in Other M, but then it's also much easier to swallow since it's the first time she sees Ridley after her parents death. When they next meet she attacks without hesitation ("That's right, I'm your nightmare!"). Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see here, but the feeling I get is that she's over and done with her terror, and even taking into account she now thinks him gone for good, her totally seizing up doesn't gel.

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

PTSD is one of those things that creep on ya.  Samus's is more of a less than the more serious PTSD cases.

Or so that's how I see it anyways.

[Hypershell]

The way I see it, the all-too-easily-dismissed element of surprise is key in the Ridley encounter.  Even though I don't particularly buy the premise of the Space Pirates having been annihilated, that premise is there all the same.  And under that premise, nobody is left to revive Ridley, so Samus would believe she'd put him behind her.  The worst possible time to face your fear is when it's by surprise.

Why wouldn't Samus get equally upset the first time he's revived - Metroid Prime 1, I think? - when she's bound to be just as unprepared for his return?

In Prime 1, Samus witnessed Ridley on board the Frigate Orpheon (and again in Phendrana, IIRC) long before ever doing battle with him.  So, yeah, cat was out of the bag.  There's also no telling how familiar she is with Pirate habits in regards to resurrecting defeated leaders.

And, are we dismissing Prime 3's Pirate Home World canonicity? I mean, they weren't Zebesians, but Ridley was a Space Pirate leader, wasn't he?

Other M seems to refuse to acknowledge the Primes, although quite frankly with or without the Primes I have a few issues with their canon as to how they depict the Space Pirates.

Whether you're acknowledging Prime 3's Pirate Home World or not, the Pirates as a whole AREN'T Zebesian.  Zebes was a Chozo Colony as well as Samus's childhood home after K-2L.  Presumably Other M is using the term as short-hand for "Zebesian Space Pirate", as in those which were bred there, but that only further emphasizes the oddity in an interplanetary race being destroyed as the result of losing one planet.

Then again the Pirates work [tornado fang]ing fast. In Zero Mission he lands like 4 hours in, then you kill him shortly after, then some 2-4 hours later you fight MECHA RIDLEY!!!

I think that's less speed and more vanity.  "Mecha Ridley" having no organic components, I see it as a part of the mothership, which Ridley commands, that was designed in his image.

The wiki claims that the Pirates that conquered Zebes (and altered themselves to live on it, according to the manga) renamed themselves Zebesians and considered it their home world, though they were still basically Space Pirates.

Again, Pirates being bred on/modified for/otherwise tied to Zebes is not the problem.  The problem is how exactly does Zebes' loss equal the death of ALL Space Pirates?  It makes absolutely no sense because Zebes was lost twice, once in the original and once in Super.  Granted in the original, the entire planet didn't explode, but having bombed their base and their mothership I think it's a safe bet that they were routed from the planet.  So the fact that they survived its loss once but couldn't survive the same loss again is exceptionally hard to swallow.

[Align]

I can kinda buy her reaction if she genuinely thought he was permanently dead - and also importantly, she didn't think so previously - it's just that I think it's stupid that she would think that.

[Zan]

Whether you're acknowledging Prime 3's Pirate Home World or not, the Pirates as a whole AREN'T Zebesian.  Zebes was a Chozo Colony as well as Samus's childhood home after K-2L.  Presumably Other M is using the term as short-hand for "Zebesian Space Pirate", as in those which were bred there, but that only further emphasizes the oddity in an interplanetary race being destroyed as the result of losing one planet.

Again, Pirates being bred on/modified for/otherwise tied to Zebes is not the problem.  The problem is how exactly does Zebes' loss equal the death of ALL Space Pirates?  It makes absolutely no sense because Zebes was lost twice, once in the original and once in Super.  Granted in the original, the entire planet didn't explode, but having bombed their base and their mothership I think it's a safe bet that they were routed from the planet.  So the fact that they survived its loss once but couldn't survive the same loss again is exceptionally hard to swallow.

Wouldn't that just mean that prior to Super Metroid, the pirates were simply practically wiped out, only having a stronghold at Zebes remaining? Things like the Pirate Home World being struck by a Leviathan would surely leave a mark, not to mention continuous conflicts with Samus' and the Federation.

There's also no telling how familiar she is with Pirate habits in regards to resurrecting defeated leaders.

One has to wonder how the Federation captured Ridley in Metroid Fusion relates to pirate resurrection habits.