Topic: Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon

[Ramzal]

I don't know, but so far, this is my least favorite Fire Emblem game.

I know that it's a remake of FE1, and I am not really sure if this option was available back then, but did Intelligent Systems really had to leave the rescue option out? I mean, when I think of Fire Emblem, rescuing your allies is one of the traditional tactics.

The rescue option was never taken out. It was introduced in Fire Emblem 5. Leaf's story. So, no, it's no traditional and it wasn't in FE 1-4 to begin with.

[STM]

I see this sort of as playing Devil May Cry 3, with its bevvy of choices and weapons and a nicely refined battle system, then jumping down to Devil May Cry and seeing how restrictive it is in comparison, due to less refinement.

At any rate, the lack of rescue option means you need to be all the more careful with your strategic planning. In essence, you can't screw up as much and need to be at least two-three steps ahead of the computer.

[Hypershell]

The rescue option was never taken out. It was introduced in Fire Emblem 5. Leaf's story. So, no, it's no traditional and it wasn't in FE 1-4 to begin with.

He said it was "left" out, not that it was "taken" out.  The game may be a remake but, as I mentioned earlier, it is remade in gameplay as much as it is visually.  It does include various now-standard aspects that were not a part of FE1.  Nothing wrong with being bummed that one such option was not added.

Incidentally, unused data shows that it was at some point planned to have a dismount option.  Maybe they figured the reclass option made it a little redundant?  Although since there's no such thing as a playable Soldier, you'll lose Lances that way.

[Pringer X]

I feel so smart I took the Arena abuse thing and changed it just a wee bit to make it better. Here's my logic: Healers get xp for healing, and the arena causes you to lose hp, so you need healing. So, rather than just use one healer or use a fort to restore HP, why not use the Class Swap feature and switch some of your lower leveled characters into healers, and have them keep the Arena goers up to par on health? I found the downside to this though; during that period of time as a healer, you don't build up your weapon exp for the weapon you were using before, so if it isn't up to a decent level, you're going to be a bit weaker than normal when you class change back. Luckily even that is solved if you class change characters who are a tad underleveled, but have high weapon levels. It's a great way to go through the arena's faster, and you have another member getting exp at the same time. I did this on stage 16 and by then I had the Silver Card, which helped in buying Mend's from the nearby Vendor since I spent less in getting them.

[Hypershell]

I found the downside to this though; during that period of time as a healer, you don't build up your weapon exp for the weapon you were using before

The other downside is that Classes influence your growth rates, so you may find yourself lacking in Strength and HP using that method.  You could seriously screw up a Fighter or Pirate that way.

[Pringer X]

The other downside is that Classes influence your growth rates, so you may find yourself lacking in Strength and HP using that method.  You could seriously screw up a Fighter or Pirate that way.

True, but that can be (somewhat) slightly remedied when you Class Swap back. Frey got about +8 or 9 strength when he went back to a Cavalier from a curate, and he was one from 11 to 20. That's about +1 strength every level or two, with a gap in the middle, which isn't too bad. I was going to use Barst or Darros as a cleric, but they don't become one, so I had them fight. The plus side to that downside though is how it affects your resistance. Abel was a curate and once he hit 20, i switched him to a Cavalier and notice he had more Res. than he did Def. which helped him as a Paladin on the next stage. Granted it isn't the best method ever, but if your mages are lacking in levels, then it's a win-win; Mages love the Res. boost because they're made to fight with and against magic, so def. matters a little less.

Is the method perfect? By no means, but it's handy for when you just want your units to get up in levels, since the class swap handles a little bit of the class influence rate.

[Hypershell]

I was going to use Barst or Darros as a cleric, but they don't become one, so I had them fight.

Right, right, I forgot that the Male classes are divided into two sets.

Mages love the Res. boost because they're made to fight with and against magic, so def. matters a little less.

That's a popular tactic as I understand it, but one that I'm personally not so sure of.  My preferred method of tackling an enemy Mage is with a Falcon Knight (physical attacks with strong Resistance).  As such I'd rather have the stronger Magic growth, which is applicable against all opponents, than extra Resistance which is applicable only to opposing Mages which Caeda will likely kill ages before a magic-user can get anywhere near them.

Is the method perfect? By no means, but it's handy for when you just want your units to get up in levels, since the class swap handles a little bit of the class influence rate.

That stat adjustment when reclassing only accounts for the Base stat difference, not growths.  It's the same for a Level 1 character as it is for a Level 20 character.

BTW, I think your memory on Frey is off.  Curate to Cavalier is +5 Strength.

[Pringer X]

That's a popular tactic as I understand it, but one that I'm personally not so sure of.  My preferred method of tackling an enemy Mage is with a Falcon Knight (physical attacks with strong Resistance).  As such I'd rather have the stronger Magic growth, which is applicable against all opponents, than extra Resistance which is applicable only to opposing Mages which Caeda will likely kill ages before a magic-user can get anywhere near them.
That stat adjustment when reclassing only accounts for the Base stat difference, not growths.  It's the same for a Level 1 character as it is for a Level 20 character.

BTW, I think your memory on Frey is off.  Curate to Cavalier is +5 Strength.

I dunno, with the way Caeda ended up getting her stats from leveling up, she couldn't handle too many magic attacks (her res. was lower than her defense), so having some magics that can soak up magic attacks is a plus for me. Oh well, that's just me and doesn't really matter to others.

I checked and you were right, the difference was +5. I could swear it was higher though. Eh, oh well, I'll just have him kick some ass as a Paladin once I buy some more Master Seals Thursday. I used the Arena Abuse because I was sick of how Wolf was pretty much taking up everything (for some reason, he was an enemy magnet, EVERYONE targeted him), so I leveled everyone up to 20 (except Marth, but the next stage has an arena as well, so it's not like it's too bad), and only a handful of my characters aren't upgraded.

[Hypershell]

I dunno, with the way Caeda ended up getting her stats from leveling up, she couldn't handle too many magic attacks (her res. was lower than her defense), so having some magics that can soak up magic attacks is a plus for me. Oh well, that's just me and doesn't really matter to others.

Lower, maybe, but most physical units have utter crap for Resistance.  Then there's always Catria and Est later on.

Nobody's immune to RNG-screwing.  But the Falcon Knight promotion helps quite a bit.  Dragon Knights lose their Resistance in exchange for their insane Strength.

[Pringer X]

lulz I found something pretty funny in the game. Because the boss of ch. 20 isn't on the seize point, it's possible to beat the stage without killing him It's kind of funny, because they still say the same thing that happens when you finish the chapter and kill him. "I'm sorry we lost him in the fight" "I'm right here!"

[Hypershell]

You know, I fell in love with the Arena again as I was tanking Julian up to Level 30.

......then I remembered why I hated it when, due to an error in my math-brain, Minerva died (I know she's not that great, but I got a soft spot for girls and dragons, and most of my units are far crappier anyway).

Oh well, not like it matters.  Next chapter I have to basically solo as Marth and get the whole rest of the party killed in order to reach the sidequest.

I'm still amazed that any of them, besides 24x, are considered aid for the lesser skilled players.  Seriously, if anyone sucks badly enough to hit them without trying, I don't think one extra character is going to save them.  Especially since they tend to blow after Athena anyway.

[Pringer X]

You know, I've always wondered, is Julian a good unit to use? I hear "He's great!" "He sucks!" and it seems no one wants to give a good answer. People say that Gordin's also pretty bad, but until Wolf and Sedgar showed up, he scored like half my kills when the enemy had full HP <.< He used to be my "IKILLYOUNOWBITCH!" unit that just curb-stomped everything.

[Align]

Maybe he's wildcard tier, like Eliwood.

[Ephidiel]

well if your lucky even the unit with the lowest growth can outgrow all the others
it is like Micaiah or Illyana and their speed growth its only 30 but the maxed it both out on all my playthroughs.

[Pringer X]

I've discovered something else that's worth a giggle. On Chapter 22 where all of the enemies are in one little area with only one way out, you can warp a unit over there and (if their defenses are high enough) have them just stand there and take on the incoming enemy. I found that a high strength Wolf as a General can take out almost ALL of the enemies with just a single full-use Javelin The only enemies that will be left are a thief that doesn't attack you, two healers, and the boss

[Hypershell]

You know, I've always wondered, is Julian a good unit to use? I hear "He's great!" "He sucks!" and it seems no one wants to give a good answer. People say that Gordin's also pretty bad, but until Wolf and Sedgar showed up, he scored like half my kills when the enemy had full HP <.< He used to be my "IKILLYOUNOWBITCH!" unit that just curb-stomped everything.

Julian is awesome.  His average Level 30 stats are comparable to Marth, with extra Skill and Speed while Marth has a lead in Strength and HP.  Julian will dodge, double, and critical like crazy.  Moreover, he is EASILY the best character for Arena abuse.  As a Thief, the Arena underestimates him frequently, and when they pit him against an opposing Thief he'll score an easy win and a ton of experience, also getting you stinking rich along the way for all the victories.  Finally, if you want a Thief at all (which you should, since it bypasses the need for keys), he beats the hell out of Rikard.

Most people who say that he sucks are probably comparing him to Navarre.  A Level 30 Julian is no 20/20 Navarre, this is true.  But considering how early and easily you can level up Julian, there's no reason to not use him, whether you're using Navarre alongside him or not.  I'm at Chapter 18 and Julian is still one-rounding damn near everything with an Iron Sword.

As for Gordin...well, Castor is stronger (and also easier to Arena-abuse), and Norne is faster.  I used Gordin early, and yeah he's alright, but I found the others to be better.  And despite the fanbase's raving I didn't bother with Wolf.  On average he won't overtake Castor until his last two or three levels, so I didn't think it was worth babying him when Castor was already at 20.

Just as well.  Choosing only 14 characters to live all the way up to Chapter 20 is a pain.  Minerva and Maria were already killed at 17; no matter how much I wanted them to be good it was apparent by then that they sucked.  I WANTED to keep the Whitewings alive, but it looks like Palla will probably get the axe at Ch. 20, along with Beck and Bantu.

I absolutely HATE the level I'm on now. Nothing but sand that reduces the distance that everyone can walk at (barring flying and mage units), and an insanely powerful bastard that happens to be a mage that can darts towards you, and is invincible. About the only way I can think of to beat the stage is to use up the Warp staff I have and send Wolf over to kill the mage that's at the end point, and then next turn have Marth take the win. Sadly that means I lose out on an Energy Drop, but at this point, it's not worth it. The AI's become too smart and doesn't fall for the bait you place. I don't know what to do. If I go for the Energy Drop, it'll help in the later stages to power my characters up. If I don't, I don't have to deal with Magey McBastard.

In my case I just walled him with Caeda.  Lena was there in case she needed healing, but Caeda dodged everything that Gharnef threw at her, so it didn't matter.

He EVENTUALLY leaves.  So, yeah, I routed the chapter and nabbed the treasure.   If you can't wall Gharnef then it obviously pays to leave behind those who are not either mobile in the sand or severely tanked up.

[Pringer X]

^I just stuck with Est, but sadly as awesome as she was, there wasn't any real point. Since the last chapter you just have to kill the boss (which wasn't hard with a lv. 30 Marth with max strength and strong Falchion), she's pretty much there for about 2 or 3 chapters, and depending on how quickly you want to get to the last stage, it just takes a single use of Warp to win it within 2 turns on the 2nd to last one. Her use was pretty much gone after the fight with Gharneff or whatever his name was.

I'm done with the game, and I'm not even going to bother with WiFi battles. I've heard that there's already a slew of cheaters on WiFi, and I'd rather not be stuck with that kind of crap like in Star Force 2 (my god, near the end of my experience, there wasn't ONE soul I fought that didn't cheat). I can already imagine the kind of crap that's popping up. Infinite uses of items, even if they're 1/1, max stats, 99 in every stat, maximum movement range. The list can just go on and on. I'm just going to take it, my DS lite, and a couple other games, and trade them in and get a DSi (my DS lite is somewhat busted, but it still works. Touch Screen's out of whack is all <.<)

[Hypershell]

Well, since Fire Emblem can connect with Friend Codes, at least you can just take people off your list when they cheat.  And yeah, I think hacking a strategy game is pretty pointless.  Besides maybe FE Radiant Dawn, if only to compensate for the gross lack of experience points available to anyone not in Ike's party.  I wish so badly that Vika was a viable character....

Hating the Arenas again.  Got Est and Linde up to 20 and 20/20 in Chapter 18, Horace died (since I'm going for the Gaiden chapters I may as well keep their characters, even if they blow), I reset, and then realized that my save after those level-ups was a Suspend and not a Map Save.

And sweet merciful crap, Etzel BLOWS.  Even out of the box he's entirely too slow, and his stat gains are among the most pointless I have ever seen.  For all the flak Horace takes, he's at least usable.

[Pringer X]

Well, since Fire Emblem can connect with Friend Codes, at least you can just take people off your list when they cheat.  And yeah, I think hacking a strategy game is pretty pointless.  Besides maybe FE Radiant Dawn, if only to compensate for the gross lack of experience points available to anyone not in Ike's party.  I wish so badly that Vika was a viable character....

People want to cheat for various reasons. Some for the laughs, others for the thought of winning, it goes on. I know for a fact that if there is a cheat code that allows unlimited uses of items that also applies to 1/1 items, the entire versus mode is going to blow. Why? Infinite uses of the power up items, meaning that you just have to worry about caps, infinite uses of something like Pachyderm for one of the ballista's, there's the spell Swarm that Gotoh comes with, and even the Aum staff just so they can screw you over from hell. Or to be a giant dick, have Imhulla or whatever that spell is, and having like 5 copies of it, with 5 mages. Unless you're carrying Starlight over, you can't hit them. Odds are they've jacked up their resistance anyway to a point where it's maxed out, so even if you DID have Starlight, you can't damage them. Plus, that's 5 mages. Even if it's just one, it's still unfair because once your mage capable of using Starlight dies, you're SOL. I can go on with just the theories behind this, but odds are they'll come true just due to the crap that I saw on Star Force 2 (Rogue's with over 3000 health, using multiple copies of WCC, and once someone hit me with Tribe King's counter twice, without going into Tribe King at all).

[Hypershell]

Well, again, it's just a matter of exchanging codes with someone you know to be decent.  I mean, if someone hacks Imhullu, you probably should stop playing with them.  If there were Random opponents then I'd see your point.

But in all honestly I don't think the game in and of itself is properly balanced for multiplayer (and saving the Aum staff for it hadn't even occurred to me).  There are simply too many ways to break it.  With all the stat-up items purchasable, you should always expect to fight at LEAST one all-capped character.  Add to that how wonderfully numerous and abusable the Warp staves are.  And anyone who got richer than God through Arena abuse probably has a max-forged Brave weapon or two ready to [twin slasher] someone.  I know I do.

But back to single-player, I am wondering who the hell decided to stick Elice in CHAPTER 24 as a Level 10 Cleric.  Sure makes me miss bonus experience, 'cuz it would take some of the most ridiculous camping known to man to get her max-leveled.  I heal-whored the Ch24 reinforcements until they stopped, and the 24x boss until his dragonstone broke, and she made barely any headway past her promotion.

[Pringer X]

Well, again, it's just a matter of exchanging codes with someone you know to be decent.  I mean, if someone hacks Imhullu, you probably should stop playing with them.  If there were Random opponents then I'd see your point.

But in all honestly I don't think the game in and of itself is properly balanced for multiplayer (and saving the Aum staff for it hadn't even occurred to me).  There are simply too many ways to break it.  With all the stat-up items purchasable, you should always expect to fight at LEAST one all-capped character.  Add to that how wonderfully numerous and abusable the Warp staves are.  And anyone who got richer than God through Arena abuse probably has a max-forged Brave weapon or two ready to [twin slasher] someone.  I know I do.

But back to single-player, I am wondering who the hell decided to stick Elice in CHAPTER 24 as a Level 10 Cleric.  Sure makes me miss bonus experience, 'cuz it would take some of the most ridiculous camping known to man to get her max-leveled.  I heal-whored the Ch24 reinforcements until they stopped, and the 24x boss until his dragonstone broke, and she made barely any headway past her promotion.

I kind of meant just anyone random, just due to the frequency of it. The game's fairly new and doesn't have a spot on the FC forums just yet, all that's there is a simple thread that got washed away real quick.

I can just think of the crap that some people went and did, just to beat the ever living crap out of people.  Saving the Aum staff, having Warp, people with maxed stats, hacking Imhulla, maxing out Brave weapons, saving the Regelia weapons (or whatever they're called), just all sorts of crap.

I never did bother with Elice, but partly because I didn't know where the heck she was. I never bothered getting the Aum staff; I got too impatient and Warped Marth to the exit and had him pummel the guard there, then take the win the second turn, and then I primarily used Wolf to take out the healers and archers around the boss so that I can warp a couple of ranged users over there and take the boss out in one fell swoop.

One thing I don't get, because I think it's a glitch. Why can only Archers and Snipers wield Longbows? I didn't use any Horsemen or whatever Hunters go up into, but Wolf even at level A in bows could never use a Longbow.

[Hypershell]

Bow Knights/Paladins cannot wield Longbows in the GCN/Wii games (very bummed while raising Astrid in PoR).  So no, that's not a glitch.  Just something to make the Archers/Snipers feel special.

Yet another reason Wifi blows, is a reminder of why I hate Fog of War:  The fact that you can't see anything until AFTER your turn is over, therefore anything not within two spaces of a character is effectively invulnerable.

[Pringer X]

Yet another reason Wifi blows, is a reminder of why I hate Fog of War:  The fact that you can't see anything until AFTER your turn is over, therefore anything not within two spaces of a character is effectively invulnerable.

Wait, can't Theives see farther ahead? Didn't you raise Julian up well to use? Why not equip him with your best sword and have him in your WiFi team?

[Hypershell]

That never occurred to me.  Fog of War does not exist in Shadow Dragon's single-player, so I hadn't taken notice of any sight differences.

Of the course the fact that I have no long-range attacks doesn't help any either.  Cursing the fact that the only Swarm in the game comes with Gotoh, and my first play was covering all the sidequests.  >.>

Hm, I wonder how high you can level-up Nagi in the Endgame?  I should find out sometime instead of Warp-finishing it in one or two turns.

[Pringer X]

That never occurred to me.  Fog of War does not exist in Shadow Dragon's single-player, so I hadn't taken notice of any sight differences.

Of the course the fact that I have no long-range attacks doesn't help any either.  Cursing the fact that the only Swarm in the game comes with Gotoh, and my first play was covering all the sidequests.  >.>

Hm, I wonder how high you can level-up Nagi in the Endgame?  I should find out sometime instead of Warp-finishing it in one or two turns.

Any unit that can't be promoted has a max level of 30, so I'm assuming that Nagi can only go up to lv. 30. 

Personally, Swarm isn't that great. It's accuracy is low, and is pretty much only useful for hitting units like Generals or Marth from afar, and even then it depends on how many resistance increasing items have been used on them. Dracoknights still have better Res. than most units, so Est and Caeda just shrug off the damage from Swarm thanks to their higher-than-average res. as well as decent HP.

If you do plan on making a WiFi team, or a re-run, make your WiFi team by the last Arena, and then Arena Abuse them until they've maxed out in levels and skill ranks (which helps since Gotoh isn't lv. 20 and doing so takes forever).

On a side note, can Hammerne work on the dragon stones?