Topic: MegaMan 10 - More Playable Blues

[Align]

Lol... Commandoman... Captain Commando reference maybe?

Commando is a real word...

-Stock up on items in the shop "just as in Mega Man 9"
-no charge/slide for Rock
-more DLC milking

God damn it. If there's no samescreen coop I think I'll skip this one.

[Dr. Wily II]

I don't care.
I'm on Cloud 9. Best news I've heard all week.

[Turian]

Also, the Yashichi. I never thought that I'd get to see that old friend again.

Not picking on you here, just using your post as an example.
Everyone knows the yashichi was in mm8 right?

[Satoryu]

It was an actual item? I don't remember that.

Shelly: You do know the Top 10 is a Wii-only thing, right? On XBLA and PSN, they track everything and everyone.

And while Mega Man wasn't about speedrunning, it's become very popular to do. Including the time attack whatnot was a pretty smart move to satisfy that part of the fanbase.

However, I'm confused by what you mean "physics abuse." I guess you're talking about the pause screen cancelling, but that's not physics. That's more of a game design thing. The closest thing MM9 has to physics abuse is Concrete Zipping, and those only save about .15 seconds each.

[Sapphire✧9]

It was an actual item? I don't remember that.

Rush Charger 

[Satoryu]

Oh. I never really used the Rush stuff too much aside from Cycle. Never really needed it.

[Protoman Blues]

Even though there are no Female RM's, thanx to the internet they eventually will be anyway! 

[Hypershell]

Shelly: You do know the Top 10 is a Wii-only thing, right? On XBLA and PSN, they track everything and everyone

You speak as if I own a 360 or PS3.

Still stupid to make that the game's default mode.  No matter how popular speedrunning gets, MegaMan is about blowing stuff up.  When the game attempts to rank you and yet ignores that, there's a problem.  As I said, a Time Attack mode is a different story, since it exists specifically for that purpose.  My gripe is with clear time goals being the default mode.

I guess you're talking about the pause screen cancelling, but that's not physics. That's more of a game design thing.

Call it what you like.  Physics can apply to literally anything.

"Canceling" is an exploit in my book.  Even though I am well aware that the pause screen cancel is a MegaMan staple,  it's just annoying to see the game designed so that you have to depend on it.

[Satoryu]

No one ever said you HAD to pause cancel. If you want to play the game fast, then it's a must. But if you're just playing casually and taking your time, you never have to do it. If you want to pause and leave that BHB on screen, just open the Challenge list or press Home.

And I totally disagree with speedrunning being the game's goal. Just because the game gives you your time at the end, you're supposed to get the lowest time? No way. Plenty of games keep track of your time, and aren't really prime for speedrunning. Take RPGs for example. Though it can and has been done, I doubt you're playing them for time. Hell, I don't think the majority of people really give a damn about their times in MM9, anyway. They'd be happy just to beat the game.

They don't show the time at the end to show you what to improve. It's just there as a convenience, if you're curious how long it took you to beat the game. It's nothing new to Mega Man, either. X5 and X6 showed you at the end, and X7 and X8 allowed you to save a final save with your clear time visible.

[Protoman Blues]

Admit it, Sato.  It totally makes you feel like more of a man, dare I say, a MEGA-MAN, to be in the Top 10 Speedrunners list!   

[Satoryu]

Absolutely.

[Hypershell]

I know, I used to be there.  Vix lasted longer than I did, of course, but still.

No one ever said you HAD to pause cancel.

The game by default ranks you on clear time.  You get the best clear time by pause canceling.

Take RPGs for example.

RPGs do not post that time on a leaderboard, nor does any MegaMan game you mentioned.  In those instances it is a simple matter of record, not competition.  There's a difference.

[Acid]

I'll start a new game on MM10 and max out the timer.

[Satoryu]

The game by default ranks you on clear time.  You get the best clear time by pause canceling.

Well who said you HAVE to get the best time?

It's only a goal if you make it a goal. You know, like people say they haven't beaten a game until they've beaten it on the hardest difficulty without dying and using only default equipment. Blindfolded.

Or better yet, take rank for example. Tons of games track ranking nowadays. But very rarely have I ever felt compelled to get the best rank in a game. The only example I can think of is getting all As in Sonic Adventure 2. Everything else? DMC, MMZ, and all that? I don't give a [parasitic bomb].

[Hypershell]

ranking

You are preaching to the choir.

Well who said you HAVE to get the best time?

leaderboard

[Satoryu]

Well that's a big contradiction right there, I hope you know. So this argument is now dead.

[Hypershell]

Replace "time" with "rank" in my response two posts ago and paste it here.

You're ignoring where the game was deliberately designed to create a competition, and I'm getting a little tired of having to reiterate the obvious.  A stat for your own records and a stat automatically loaded onto web servers for the sole purpose of competing against other players are not the same thing.  Your solution is to treat the latter as if it is the former.  I'm not satisfied with that.  If you were not connected to the internet, you'd have a point.  But then you wouldn't be playing MM9 to begin with.

[Acid]

Why not quit your connection while you're playing?

[Hypershell]

For starters because my router is always on.
Besides, there's no difference between that and just pretending it's something else, except you're giving yourself a chore for your own reassurance.  It's a matter of developer intent, and where their focus is.  What challenges the game itself is presenting you with, and whether in doing so they are building or detracting from the experience.

Again, I'm referring to Normal Mode when I say this.  Time Attack exists for that specific purpose and is thus exempt to any question of focus.  Hero, Superhero, and ProtoMan are not applicable to the leaderboards, which is comforting.  But none of them were available on release day, much less the core package.

[Protoman Blues]

You're ignoring where the game was deliberately designed to create a competition, and I'm getting a little tired of having to reiterate the obvious.  A stat for your own records and a stat automatically loaded onto web servers for the sole purpose of competing against other players are not the same thing.  Your solution is to treat the latter as if it is the former.  I'm not satisfied with that.  If you were not connected to the internet, you'd have a point.  But then you wouldn't be playing MM9 to begin with.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, your grip with MM9's ranking system is that the developers made it where it posts your ranks on an online board so all can see either how good you are or how much you suck, and thus making it an automatic competition for everyone who plays the game with their online connection turned on?

[Turian]

I felt awesome that I placed in the top 50 on xbox live. On the other hand I too ish that the game had kept track of more than just the time.

[Hypershell]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, your grip with MM9's ranking system is that the developers made it where it posts your ranks on an online board so all can see either how good you are or how much you suck, and thus making it an automatic competition for everyone who plays the game with their online connection turned on?

Turian nailed it.  It feels great when you make it.  I know, I was there.  But there's more to MegaMan than clear time.  If you're going to rank players based on that alone, keep it in Time Attack.  Not the game's default.

It's a minor complaint compared to the game's shop system and blindsided traps, but one which fellow forum-goers seem driven to harp on, hence the unnecessarily long discussion.

[Acid]

No, honestly the best way to deal with this situation is to not give a [tornado fang] about your time and reputation. People won't even notice you unless you're in the top ten.

[Protoman Blues]

Turian nailed it.  It feels great when you make it.  I know, I was there.  But there's more to MegaMan than clear time.  If you're going to rank players based on that alone, keep it in Time Attack.  Not the game's default.

But don't they have the other challenges for more than just clear time?  Or are they not posted on the online boards?  (I'm not sure as I never really looked)

[Irgendein]

No, honestly the best way to deal with this situation is to not give a [tornado fang] about your time and reputation. People won't even notice you unless you're in the top ten.

Thank you, Acid.

Seriously, it's just a leaderboard, it's not like you get anything special for having the best time.