Topic: David Wise Leaves Rare.

[Jericho]

And I cry bitter tears. From his facebook:

"I think the business of Rare has changed a great deal, and at the moment there is just not the opportunity to create the soundtracks that Rare were fortunately very famous for."

It's really sad to see this happen, especially after Grant Kirkhope left much earlier this year as well. It's really enough to make ya wonder what's going on  in Rare's studios. A part of me would love to see the two of them composing for Nintendo again, and another part of me just wants them to keep composing for games regardless because they're both amazing.

And for those of us who don't know why Wise leaving is a big deal, he's the one who did the soundtracks for the Donkey Kong Country series, most notably (and fondly remembered), Donkey Kong Country 2.

[HokutoNoBen]

Eh.

Not to sound heartless, but really and truly? This is just yet another thing that represents how the Rare from the 90s and turn of the century died a LONG time ago. Now, it's just a shell that tries, but still ain't ****in' it right, all the same.

I wish the best for Wise. He did a lot of the music for the Battetoads games, too, which still stand up to this day. Maybe he and the guys at Free Radical (which used to be made up of former Rare employees, before THEY jumped ship), will some how, both make it out ok in this world...

[Gaia]

I hope he makes it out okay, I slightly remember him composing some of the tracks in Perfect Dark (I still remember a friend bringing a copy of the game over to play while I was younger)..  

[Acid]

Remember when Rare was good?

I'm talking DKC and Killer Instinct here.

[HokutoNoBen]

Remember when Rare was good?

As in, the Rare that gave me the likes of Battletoads, and so many other classics from the 90s and up to the turn of the century? Sure thing!

[Jericho]

I didn't want to believe it, but it seems as though that Rare is gone. Unless of course the rest of the team brings their N64 A game to Natal.

[VixyNyan]

R.C. Pro-Am and Snake Rattle 'n' Roll~

And I love the Killer Instinct and DKC soundtracks. ^.^

[Satoryu]

It took him this long to realise how much Rare has changed? Come on, I thought it was painfully obvious once Ninty sold them.

[Acid]

I think it was hope that kept him there. Can't blame him.

[HyperSonicEXE]

It took him this long to realise how much Rare has changed? Come on, I thought it was painfully obvious once Ninty sold them.

Might also be the job market; he may have only now found another place to turn to.

[Fxeni]

Yeah, pretty sure it quickly became obvious why ninty got rid of Rare. Too bad, too, because I really liked their games.

May Mr. Wise find good work somewhere else.

[Sky]

his best work is already done so it doesnt really matter

[HyperSonicEXE]

Yeah, pretty sure it quickly became obvious why ninty got rid of Rare. Too bad, too, because I really liked their games.

Banjo-Kazooie was decent fun, at first, but the collecting got old, fast, and so did the slow-ass movement combined with areas that couldn't be accessed until you had a specific power.

Starfox Adventures should have just stayed Dinosaur Planet. Great LoZ clone, but didn't sit well with the Starfox line.

Then of course we know how overrated DKC was, and how it forced Miyamoto to make SMW2 into something like it.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Fxeni]

... SMW2 was freaking awesome though. DKC 1&2 were both good (I'm iffy on the third one), and while the two N64 Banjo-Kazooie games were indeed collectathons, I don't see the logic behind

combined with areas that couldn't be accessed until you had a specific power.

Honestly, a lot of games work in this fashion, and it works well with adventure games.

The only thing I really agree with in your post is the Starfox Adventures thing, but that's mainly because the characters were just slapped in for the heck of it. Also, the last boss was a disappointment.

[Jericho]

his best work is already done so it doesnt really matter

Yea it does. The guy has talent out the ass crack and what was the last thing he did for Rare? Viva Pinata DS. Prior to that, he worked on song remakes for the GBA port of Donkey Kong Country 3. His only new work at the time was only given to him because the GBA couldn't handle the bass lows in the original soundtrack. That's just not right. It's not his fault Rare didn't put him on enough projects to get the best of his talents put to good use.

Yeah, pretty sure it quickly became obvious why ninty got rid of Rare. Too bad, too, because I really liked their games.

May Mr. Wise find good work somewhere else.

It seems as though the blame for this much lies more on the Microsoft side of things, not Rare.

Banjo-Kazooie was decent fun, at first, but the collecting got old, fast, and so did the slow-ass movement combined with areas that couldn't be accessed until you had a specific power.

Starfox Adventures should have just stayed Dinosaur Planet. Great LoZ clone, but didn't sit well with the Starfox line.

Then of course we know how overrated DKC was, and how it forced Miyamoto to make SMW2 into something like it.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

1st point is debatable, but it boils down to opinions, opinions, opinions (Banjo was awesome). Second point, totally agreed. I really don't know who's to blame for the change as people always point to Miyamoto's mentioning of StarFox working in there or the Stamper Bros. apparent eagerness to work the Nintendo IP into Dinosaur Planet, but lord knows neither party came out without some [parasitic bomb] on themselves.

Finally, if I remember correctly, didn't Miyamoto release SMW2 against the higher ups wishes to make it more like DKC2? I remember that much clear as day because it was Miyamoto who called DKC "vapid" stating that while the graphics were top notch, the gameplay left much to be desired. It escalated to a point where he said that he didn't like what Rare was doing with Donkey Kong, but then the two dueled it out with Donkey Kong Country 2 (a MUCH stronger entry) and Yoshi's Island.

[HyperSonicEXE]

All I know is, SMW2 played nothing like any Mario game before it. It felt forced and artificial then, just like DKC's gameplay (...or was that just a lack of polish on the physics?), and now it all makes sense.

[Jericho]

All I know is, SMW2 played nothing like any Mario game before it. It felt forced and artificial then, just like DKC's, and now it all makes sense.

*Bails out a [tornado fang]ing window*

[Fxeni]

All I know is, SMW2 played nothing like any Mario game before it. It felt forced and artificial then, just like DKC's gameplay (...or was that just a lack of polish on the physics?), and now it all makes sense.

Sooo you dislike it because it's... different? I don't think I quite get what you mean by forced and artificial, considering it didn't really feel like DKC.

[Klavier Gavin]

Remember when Rare was good?

I'm talking DKC and Killer Instinct here.

Yes. ;__;

[HyperSonicEXE]

Sooo you dislike it because it's... different? I don't think I quite get what you mean by forced and artificial, considering it didn't really feel like DKC.

SMW was different, but tried so hard to be so different that it lost its simplicity and replay value.

Even Super Mario Sunshine did THAT right.

[Protoman Blues]

Time to put on some Mining Melancholy!

[Satoryu]

Yoshi's Island is not a Mario game, despite having Mario in the title. It is a Yoshi game. Therefore, it doesn't have to play like a Mario game.

SMW was different, but tried so hard to be so different that it lost its simplicity and replay value.

Even Super Mario Sunshine did THAT right.

What? What Mario World were you playing?

[STM]

1st point is debatable, but it boils down to opinions, opinions, opinions (Banjo was awesome).

I don't know... maybe it' just me, but when I was replaying Banjo-Tooie, I became kind of annoyed at how much they recycled mission objectives per level. The shooting games where red ones are worth x points, green ones are worth y points and blue ones were worth z points are especially guilty of this. It's not as irritating and stupid as the level it was done in for Nuts and Bolts (a horrid game in execution--pretty much how the whole thing played, objective and plot wise--and fun in concept--designing crazy vehicles, even if they were mostly useless in trying to advance the game) but it also was more deliberate than how much it happened in the original Banjo-Kazooie... sort of like a line graph of Rare's creativity in contrast to their laziness (the more lazy, the less creative.)

Finally, if I remember correctly, didn't Miyamoto release SMW2 against the higher ups wishes to make it more like DKC2? I remember that much clear as day because it was Miyamoto who called DKC "vapid" stating that while the graphics were top notch, the gameplay left much to be desired. It escalated to a point where he said that he didn't like what Rare was doing with Donkey Kong, but then the two dueled it out with Donkey Kong Country 2 (a MUCH stronger entry) and Yoshi's Island.

Both were great games, so players benefited from them, but in my book... Diddy destroyed Yoshi. I had a little more fun with DKC2 than I did with Yoshi's Island.

[Jericho]

I don't know... maybe it' just me, but when I was replaying Banjo-Tooie, I became kind of annoyed at how much they recycled mission objectives per level. The shooting games where red ones are worth x points, green ones are worth y points and blue ones were worth z points are especially guilty of this. It's not as irritating and stupid as the level it was done in for Nuts and Bolts (a horrid game in execution--pretty much how the whole thing played, objective and plot wise--and fun in concept--designing crazy vehicles, even if they were mostly useless in trying to advance the game) but it also was more deliberate than how much it happened in the original Banjo-Kazooie... sort of like a line graph of Rare's creativity in contrast to their laziness (the more lazy, the less creative.)

I agree honestly. I'll take off the nostalgia goggles for a little bit and say that a lot of Tooie relied on reused content. The thing about it though that excused it for me was the feeling of scale it brought to the series. It really felt like an adventure game first, then a platformer, but it didn't suffer from that at all. If some of the missions that were scattered about were more integrated and didn't feel like "bring stone from one end of Earth to other", i think it would have been looked upon better in hindsight.

There were certainly quite a few different directions the next Banjo could have gone in afterward, but I guess we'll probably never find out how that will fare. I want to believe in them so much -- there was a time when I said that Rare were the only people who could sway me into buying a 360, but as of now, it's going to be quite a harder sell for me. As for all of the talent that's leaving the company now, one has to wonder if Rare will soon become nothing more than a memory.

[Protoman Blues]

Honestly, once Rare puts Perfect Dark on XBLA, they don't really serve much of a purpose to me anymore.