RockmanPM Forums

Gaia · **Reply #25 on:** June 26, 2009, 03:54:40 AM

That explains why he went down easy in X8, rather than having him go down quick in X7. genticals is basically Axl's weakness. THE GEM, the all powerful life source for reploids.

Seriously, the gem what powers the reploids are visible to every one in existance. it's thier bull's eye.

Rock Bomb · **Reply #26 on:** June 26, 2009, 03:59:25 AM

Quote from: Gaia on June 26, 2009, 02:52:26 AM

Reploids were allowed to have free will; just that the old models had a little bit of it, meaning they can't be bad in any way, so their AI was limited until Copyroids showed up.

"For I am indeed Sigma", is prolly just a wannabe copyroid trying to be badass too, cute capcom, cute.

>>Implying that the Sigma you fought on the Moon wasn't the real Sigma.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

CyberXIII · **Reply #27 on:** June 26, 2009, 04:01:13 AM

Well, I figured that out when Sigma showed up without a second form.

Gaia · **Reply #28 on:** June 26, 2009, 04:02:30 AM

Actually, the Sigma before the real one on the moon made you thought the game was done.. then Lumine came and screwed the plot. yeah, it's confusing. the real one was the one that was using the last of his energy. remember, he was emitting a green arua.. remember the virus you fought in X2 that shared the same color?

CyberXIII · **Reply #29 on:** June 26, 2009, 04:10:23 AM

Quote from: Gaia on June 26, 2009, 04:02:30 AM

Actually, the Sigma before the real one on the moon made you thought the game was done.. then Lumine came and screwed the plot. yeah, it's confusing. the real one was the one that was using the last of his energy. remember, he was emitting a green arua.. remember the virus you fought in X2 that shared the same color?

Of course, the virus was supposedly destroyed in back in X3; we all know how that turned out....

Zan · **Reply #30 on:** June 26, 2009, 06:52:04 PM

Wow.... I'm amazed at how completely wrong you all interpreted Lumine's words...

Gotham Ranger · **Reply #31 on:** June 26, 2009, 10:36:14 PM

So then enlighten us instead of just trailing off?

Tickle Buffalo · **Reply #32 on:** June 26, 2009, 10:56:18 PM

He would.

But you just wouldn't be able to understand.

Flame · **Reply #33 on:** June 26, 2009, 11:36:09 PM

...
Even the X9 forum handles the topic of lumines words better.

All of the New Generation Reploids have Copy chips, yes?

They achieve transformation by utilizing the DNA of thousands upon thousands of old model Reploids that is embedded in their Copy Chips.

Thousands of old model Reploids.

Take a guess at who's included.

Thats right, He who is without hair. The bald one, Sigma. They have his DNA as well as all those other Reploids. And its been established that Sigma did not go Maverick because of the virus really, but because he realized that he was superior. the virus was just a means to an end. Therefore, new Gens inherit that way of thinking that made Sigma "Maverick."
They can literally become Sigma. Both Body and Mind.

Zan · **Reply #34 on:** June 27, 2009, 12:26:27 AM

X: You're Lumine? You were alright?
Lumine: Alright, of course. I suppose you're all very satisfied being able to defeat Sigma. Thanks to which, up until now, plans have proceeded smoothly.
Axl: Weren't you taken and used by Sigma?
Lumine: Used? I'm afraid you're wrong. He just played his part. Awakening us, the new types, and changing the world.

Lumine: The copy chip was made from the analysis of various former Repliroids, and among them, naturally, Sigma is there too.

Lumine: It isn't the case that Sigma was by any means insane.
Sigma, of his own free will, rebelled against your world.
And us repliroids of the new generation, are able to become like Sigma at any time.
We, of our free will, are able to wage battle against your old world.
To put it in a way you understand...
We, of our free will, are able to become Irregular.

Zero: Just becoming Sigma can hardly be called evolution.

X: They all seem to be him.

Sigma: You may call me by that name, for I am indeed Sigma.

Flame · **Reply #35 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:11:48 AM

Quote from: Zan on June 27, 2009, 12:26:27 AM

X: You're Lumine? You were alright?
Lumine: Alright, of course. I suppose you're all very satisfied being able to defeat Sigma. Thanks to which, up until now, plans have proceeded smoothly.
Axl: Weren't you taken and used by Sigma?
Lumine: Used? I'm afraid you're wrong. He just played his part. Awakening us, the new types, and changing the world.

Lumine: The copy chip was made from the analysis of various former Repliroids, and among them, naturally, Sigma is there too.

Lumine: It isn't the case that Sigma was by any means insane.
Sigma, of his own free will, rebelled against your world.
And us repliroids of the new generation, are able to become like Sigma at any time.
We, of our free will, are able to wage battle against your old world.
To put it in a way you understand...
We, of our free will, are able to become Irregular.

Cue that awesome cutscene.

and yeah. Copy Sigma wasn't lying when he said he was Sigma. He was. In body and mind. Only he was still just copying him.

Shiki Tohno · **Reply #36 on:** June 28, 2009, 04:16:59 PM

Quote from: Zan on June 27, 2009, 12:26:27 AM

Alia: They all seem to be him.

Fix'd.

Zan · **Reply #37 on:** June 28, 2009, 04:48:04 PM

Somebody said it, at least. >.>

CyberXIII · **Reply #38 on:** June 30, 2009, 02:16:05 AM

Wait. If the newgen reploids all have Siggy's DNA Data, then why didn't Axl go nuts?

@Zan: And wasn't the whole "of his own free will" thing a massive retcon? Sigma was always said to have been driven insane by the virus Zero gave him.

Sakura Leic · **Reply #39 on:** June 30, 2009, 02:30:59 AM

Axl was a proto type and didn't have any other DNA when he was activated he had to shoot enimies with a copy shot to get other DNA. If I'm wrong please correct me.

Ryo · **Reply #40 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:08:05 AM

As far as I remember, you're right.

By the way, just want to add to the "And... a man is..." thing. I'm just going to say that I always thought that they were referring to RockMAN X/ MegaMAN X. Just throwing in my two cents.

CyberXIII · **Reply #41 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:11:13 AM

Still, saying you can become Maverick at will is like saying you can go Joker-class, batshit insane at a moment's notice, which is clearly not true for Reploids unless the Zero/ Sigma/ Maverick/ Nightmare Virus is involved.

It wasn't here, just Sigma's DNA data. (I refuse to simply call it DNA.)

Flame · **Reply #42 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:17:34 AM

No, your right.
plus Hes no maverick, 'Heck, Hes a maverick hunter!"
no seriously, Axl is just a prototype. He does not have the DNA of thousands of old model Reploids on his copy chip. He has to obtain the DNA before he can use it. plus, that also limits his copy ability. He can only "copy" as in, he can copy forms, and weapons, and in X7, make a copy of an enemy's ability. (like a bee and stuff) Whereas Redips with Supra force metal for example, can achieve his God Redips transformation. and Lumine can turn into Seraph Lumine.

Posted on: June 29, 2009, 09:12:38 PM

Quote from: CyberXIII on June 30, 2009, 03:11:13 AM

Still, saying you can become Maverick at will is like saying you can go Joker-class, batshit insane at a moment's notice, which is clearly not true for Reploids unless the Zero/ Sigma/ Maverick/ Nightmare Virus is involved.

It wasn't here, just Sigma's DNA data. (I refuse to simply call it DNA.)

And cant you? if I wanted to, I could suddenly go outside and stab someone and kill them without any previous history of issues.
And Im perfectly sane. They have his DNA. Sigma went maverick of his own free will. The same way that there can be reploid burglars and criminals who are not viral or glitched. He began to, over time, after discussing X with Cain over the course of X's initial huntership, he realized after witnessing X's evolutionary potential, that Reploids, like X, can evolve past themselves. they can advance. However, Humans are a hindrance to this. So they must be eliminated for the sake of progress. This was something that he was thinking over for a while. and once he became one with the virus and gained immortality, He realized he could put his idea into motion without fear, for he could easily revive.

The virus was a means to an end.

Zechs · **Reply #43 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:30:52 AM

Exactly. What Flame said.

It is not simply that they can go 'maverick at Will'. They can simply choose to go against humanity without anything being wrong with them. Sigma himself would have turned against humanity given time. The Virus only sped up his realization. Nothing more. What Lumine stated was to make sense to the hunters. They being with Sigma's DNA Data, they have a connection with the way his mind developed. And with that connection they are able to understand his philosophy. And agree with it, and act upon it. As if they were Sigma themselves. Stated by Alia, and previously posted...

Quote from: CyberXIII on June 30, 2009, 02:16:05 AM

@Zan: And wasn't the whole "of his own free will" thing a massive retcon? Sigma was always said to have been driven insane by the virus Zero gave him.

He would have ultimately rebelled with or without the Virus. It only made his rebellion more agreeable and one sided for his philosophy. Sigma didn't go insane and wasn't a retcon. That is how his character was.

Flame · **Reply #44 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:45:10 AM

It wasnt a retcon. it was just adding to the already presented story.
in X1 they never gave a reason for Sigma going maverick. He just eventually rebelled. it wasnt until the Virus' presence was revealed, and X4, that people began to think that the virus made him maverick. it was just assumption. They saw that he got the virus from the evil Zero, and figured that was why he went evil. they never really presented a solid reason for Sigma's rebellion. also, remember X8.

"Welcome Maverick Hunter... Its good to see you again X... - ...Your dedication to what you referred to as "justice" was what first got me thinking... I realized the Imperfections of this world, and decided I must change it."

"Zero... Who would've imagined wed cross paths at the end of the world... The Moment your Virus entered my system, the seed had been planted..."

The seed is not Sigma's going maverick, but the but what he means is that it gave Sigma the ability to put his plan into motion.

then in maverick Hunter X, they were able to present more with the story as they could use cut scenes and were able to make the Day of Sigma.

in X1, they were limited, and crammed the info they could not present in game into the booklet. and even then there were underlying things that were not included. things that wer eonly delved into in X8 and Maverick Hunter X.
The reason Sigma went Maverick.

Bag of Magic Food · **Reply #45 on:** June 30, 2009, 05:24:30 AM

Quote from: Ryo on June 30, 2009, 03:08:05 AM

By the way, just want to add to the "And... a man is..." thing.

a miserable little pile of secrets

Zan · **Reply #46 on:** June 30, 2009, 11:11:19 PM

There's a strong indication that the Virus affected his psyche to some degree in the sourcebook notion that "the evil virus' hold over him was complete' and "a darkness began to grow in his heart." But all that is a vague oversimplification of the truth.

Quote

Still, saying you can become Maverick at will is like saying you can go Joker-class, batshit insane at a moment's notice, which is clearly not true for Reploids unless the Zero/ Sigma/ Maverick/ Nightmare Virus is involved.

The point is something far deeper than that. It isn't about insanity at all. Lumine after all clearly emphasizes that Sigma is sane.

The first key point is that their viral immunity is absolute; they can not go irregular.

The second key point is that they have Sigma's data, therefore they can literally become like Sigma. Despite popular assumption, Sigma of his own free will decided to rebel against the old world.

Irregular Hunter X further elaborates the concept in that both VAVA with his glitched electronic brain too can become an irregular of his own free will. Placing him and Sigma as opposites of X who has the desired ability of worrying and limitless potential. Worrying which equals compassion, which Sigma does not have. Sigma has no moral restrictions, but he's perfectly sane. This concept is further alluded to in the ZX-series in regards to the DASH tie in.

CyberXIII · **Reply #47 on:** July 03, 2009, 04:50:22 AM

Quote from: Zan on June 30, 2009, 11:11:19 PM

There's a strong indication that the Virus affected his psyche to some degree in the sourcebook notion that "the evil virus' hold over him was complete' and "a darkness began to grow in his heart." But all that is a vague oversimplification of the truth.

The point is something far deeper than that. It isn't about insanity at all. Lumine after all clearly emphasizes that Sigma is sane.

The first key point is that their viral immunity is absolute; they can not go irregular.

The second key point is that they have Sigma's data, therefore they can literally become like Sigma. Despite popular assumption, Sigma of his own free will decided to rebel against the old world.

Irregular Hunter X further elaborates the concept in that both VAVA with his glitched electronic brain too can become an irregular of his own free will. Placing him and Sigma as opposites of X who has the desired ability of worrying and limitless potential. Worrying which equals compassion, which Sigma does not have. Sigma has no moral restrictions, but he's perfectly sane. This concept is further alluded to in the ZX-series in regards to the DASH tie in.

Okay...

1. You say that Sigma was sane in X8. He was not. Every time Siggy transferred himself to a new body, he got crazier. Compare X1's Original Sigma to X6's Reborn Sigma.

2. You say the newgen reploids cannot go irregular. The events of X8 disprove this; Lumine himself said that they can do so at will.

3. You say that they have Sigma of his own free will rebelled against humanity; he only did so after being corrupted with the program that made Zero go nuts to begin with. That's not free will; that's being corrupted into madness.

4. Disregarding the fact the IHX was a retcon, VAVA wasn't completely sane either; his only real goal was his obsession with X. He rebelled of his own free will, yes, but he did so the same way Repliforce did.

Flame · **Reply #48 on:** July 03, 2009, 05:29:12 AM

Quote from: CyberXIII on July 03, 2009, 04:50:22 AM

Okay...

1. You say that Sigma was sane in X8. He was not. Every time Siggy transferred himself to a new body, he got crazier. Compare X1's Original Sigma to X6's Reborn Sigma.

2. You say the newgen reploids cannot go irregular. The events of X8 disprove this; Lumine himself said that they can do so at will.

3. You say that they have Sigma of his own free will rebelled against humanity; he only did so after being corrupted with the program that made Zero go nuts to begin with. That's not free will; that's being corrupted into madness.

4. Disregarding the fact the IHX was a retcon, VAVA wasn't completely sane either; his only real goal was his obsession with X. He rebelled of his own free will, yes, but he did so the same way Repliforce did.

You cannot compare X6's sigma, as he was barely alive. He was incomplete, and so was his consciousness. Or have you not noticed his zombie design in the game? He was evil. doesnt mean he was insane. plus, X7 and 8 prove he is more than capable of rational intelligent thought. the kind that insane peoiple cannot do. He is a cunning mastermind.

Newgens cannot go irregular because of the Sigma virus. they go irregular because Sigma and his DNA is already inside them from the start.

Sigma had already been thinking about Reploids vs Humans for a while. The virus simply gave him the power to put his vision into effect.

maverick Hunter X is not a retcon.

Zechs · **Reply #49 on:** July 03, 2009, 05:45:16 AM

Quote from: CyberXIII on July 03, 2009, 04:50:22 AM

Okay...

1. You say that Sigma was sane in X8. He was not. Every time Siggy transferred himself to a new body, he got crazier. Compare X1's Original Sigma to X6's Reborn Sigma.

2. You say the newgen reploids cannot go irregular. The events of X8 disprove this; Lumine himself said that they can do so at will.

3. You say that they have Sigma of his own free will rebelled against humanity; he only did so after being corrupted with the program that made Zero go nuts to begin with. That's not free will; that's being corrupted into madness.

4. Disregarding the fact the IHX was a retcon, VAVA wasn't completely sane either; his only real goal was his obsession with X. He rebelled of his own free will, yes, but he did so the same way Repliforce did.

1: He was fully sane in X8. He made the conscious decision to sacrifice his immortality for power. Hence his form. He is fully capable of free thinking, rationalization and conceptions. He merely was resurrected in X6, and wasn't fully revived. Hence his 'evil instinct' ploy.

2: New Gens can choose to ignore their 'Laws' and go against humanity without anything being wrong. And since New Gens are more refined and Virus protected, it is their decisions that classify them as Maverick or not. Not by an ailment.

3: He was coaxed by Cain's discussions of what X possesses. He was shammed in battle by his near defeat by Zero. He was rationalizing that Humans are in they way of reploid progression. He would have rebelled regardless of the Virus infection or not. The Virus is more 'one sided' and therefor it caused him to reach his conclusion much faster.

4: Vile was sane. In the sense for his condition would allow. He possessed an Electronic Brain Glitch. An error within his mental processor that caused him to enjoy destruction. And collateral damage wasn't exactly looked highly upon. Thus he was deemed a Maverick due to his hunger for destruction. His lust for X is to destroy him. Because of the Glory X received that Vile felt he was neglected. He didn't exactly rebel, he simply followed his desires. He fought for only himself.

News

What did Lumine mean?