Topic: Dear SEGA...Never Stop Making SONIC Games. Your Fan, [insert name]

[HyperSonicEXE]

In the old days, you had to "earn" the right to make Sonic go fast...by the time you did so, you felt proud of yourself that you were able to get to that fast.

As long as modern day Sonic Team does NOT get that, they'll never make a Sonic game that TRULY goes back to Sonic's roots, either 3D or 2D. That's why the tagline has been worthless since they started touting it around Sonic Heroes, and will continue to be so.

Agreed up until this point.

See, they're already making you, "earn your speed", and they're doing it through inane Gimmicks and those god-forsaken Boost Rings.

On top of that, enemies now have health bars. Sonic Unleashed did a little bit to alleviate this during the day stages, but that benefit was equally destroyed by the blur effect of the Dash Boost and the poor camera angle, not to mention floaty jump physics.

And as far as "earning your speed", yeah, okay, I will grant you that memorizing the stage layouts of the S3&K and Sonic CD stages is the reason why I (or any other gamer, for that matter) can get through stages in record times. I'll grant you that.
But at the same time, even the beginner players got to feel that speed by way of stage design, especially in Sonic 2 where Emerald Hill and Chemical Plant Zone had loop-de-loops that made your jaw drop, skill level regardless. In fact, there was more skill and reward in how you landed after those segments than in actually obtaining the speed.

[HokutoNoBen]

Agreed up until this point.

See, they're already making you, "earn your speed", and they're doing it through inane Gimmicks and those god-forsaken Boost Rings.

On top of that, enemies now have health bars. Sonic Unleashed did a little bit to alleviate this during the day stages, but that benefit was equally destroyed by the blur effect of the Dash Boost and the poor camera angle, not to mention floaty jump physics.

All in all, though, you're just doing more to elaborate on what I'm talking about.

Gimmicks. Married together to bad physics, bad camera AI and etc.

These are the things that are just proof to how modern ST does NOT get it. They rather just add on to the long-standing problems the series has, without adequately addressing that which should be fundamental things to make a solid Sonic game (or hell, just a solid game, period).

And as far as "earning your speed", yeah, okay, I will grant you that memorizing the stage layouts of the S3&K and Sonic CD stages is the reason why I (or any other gamer, for that matter) can get through stages in record times. I'll grant you that.
But at the same time, even the beginner players got to feel that speed by way of stage design, especially in Sonic 2 where Emerald Hill and Chemical Plant Zone had loop-de-loops that made your jaw drop, skill level regardless. In fact, there was more skill and reward in how you landed after those segments than in actually obtaining the speed.

What I'm trying to get at though, is that "earning" the speed came from being able to actually utilize the level, the solid physics engine, and Sonic's own momentum, all to your advantage.

That much was definitely present in the older games. As time has gone on, in this modern era, it either hasn't been so much of a part, or just utterly passed-over.

But hey, it is what it is, when it comes to modern Sonic. Won't be buying any more Sonic games, unless a) they get their act together, or b) AM2 makes a new "Sonic the Fighters". 

[Waifu]

Dear SEGA,

Please get your arses in gear and make a [tornado fang]ing SONIC GAME! 

GAP

[HyperSonicEXE]

All in all, though, you're just doing more to elaborate on what I'm talking about.

Gimmicks. Married together to bad physics, bad camera AI and etc.

These are the things that are just proof to how modern ST does NOT get it. They rather just add on to the long-standing problems the series has, without adequately addressing that which should be fundamental things to make a solid Sonic game (or hell, just a solid game, period).

What I'm trying to get at though, is that "earning" the speed came from being able to actually utilize the level, the solid physics engine, and Sonic's own momentum, all to your advantage.

That much was definitely present in the older games. As time has gone on, in this modern era, it either hasn't been so much of a part, or just utterly passed-over.

But hey, it is what it is, when it comes to modern Sonic. Won't be buying any more Sonic games, unless a) they get their act together, or b) AM2 makes a new "Sonic the Fighters". 

I thought we might have been clashing on how the player "earns their speed," but I don't think we even disagree on that.

But even then, a beginner player should still be able to get a darn good time. In fact, it should be like Sonic CD; get unlockables via Time Attack (and not ranking, **** ranking).

And OH GOD, SONIC THE FIGHTERS.
In a collection called Sonic GEMS.
GEM?! Nuh uh! No!

EDIT:
No, you know what I'd buy from Sonic Team?

Tails' Adventure 2. For the DS and/or PSP. That, I would buy.

[Police Girl]

Tails' Adventure 2. For the DS and/or PSP. That, I would buy.

I would buy this myself, personally. Along with a console release of SegaSonic the Hedgehog (Please bring this to the VC Sega!)

[HyperSonicEXE]

http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/

Ep. 21, y'all. Bob actually made a very, very good case for Sonic's cool factor staying in its own '90s era.

I disagree, though. I think Sega actually made a cool character that could stay timeless. And I don't think Shadow sucks, although the lack of characterization and the eternal immaturity Sonic Team seems to have given him does not help at all.

Even so, gameplay. Gameplay. And yes, maybe 2D is the only way to go, although I think maybe zipline and event coding might still allow for occasional forays into the 3D environment.

[HokutoNoBen]

I thought we might have been clashing on how the player "earns their speed," but I don't think we even disagree on that.

But even then, a beginner player should still be able to get a darn good time. In fact, it should be like Sonic CD; get unlockables via Time Attack (and not ranking, **** ranking).

Agreed.

And OH GOD, SONIC THE FIGHTERS.
In a collection called Sonic GEMS.
GEM?! Nuh uh! No!

Hah! Say what you will, but even the likes of denizens from SRK.com can agree that Sonic the Fighters had its merits. If AM2 was given the tap to make a sequel, I'd likely would get behind such a game. AM2 is one of the few "houses" within Sega that delivers consistently, even when it comes to "tie-in" games. 

Furthermore, the whole notion of the collection being called "Sonic Gems" is, of course, left up to the eye of the beholder.

CD? A definitive gem. The 3 Bare Knuckle/Streets of Rage games (in the JP version)? DEFINITELY gems, even if they're not the least bit related to Sonic. 

However....Spinball GG? Tails Sky Patrol? Sonic Drift 2? Sonic R?  Yeah, no.

No, you know what I'd buy from Sonic Team?

Tails' Adventure 2. For the DS and/or PSP. That, I would buy.

Agreed, again. I would love it very much, if they made a sequel to the Metroid-like Sonic game they crafted. Plus, after so long of being reduced to Sonic's lil cheerleader all over again, maybe another solo role will up his street cred again.

However, without Aspect (the original developer of that game), I dunno how I would feel about such a game in other's hands.

[Hypershell]

Disagree a bit with this statement.

See, what's still essentially the problem with modern Sonic games, is that they try to focus all on speed, and think that's the "return to Sonic's roots" that we've been waiting for.

And...that's wrong. Simply put.

Gotta agree there.  It's not just about running around, even if the whole dash mechanic in Sonic Rush was awesome.  Sonic is a platformer, period.  You're not ALWAYS running.  You never were.  And every game critic and their dog jumps on any moment in a recent Sonic game when you're not.  They don't help matters either.

And yes, "return to roots" tagline is worthless.  When's the last time we spin-dashed through a wall?

[Waifu]

What we need is to bring bavck that gameplay balance that Sonic possessed in the nineties.

[Satoryu]

When's the last time we spin-dashed through a wall?

when's the last time we spindashed period? he can't even do it in the Storybook games or Unleashed. and i don't know if he had it in 06. instead, we get the Homing Attack.

Dear Sega,

Downplay the Homing Attack.

Signed,
Some Guy

[HyperSonicEXE]

When's the last time we spin-dashed through a wall?

Windy Valley post-tornado, Sonic Adventure 1.

...er, at least I did.

Hah! Say what you will, but even the likes of denizens from SRK.com can agree that Sonic the Fighters had its merits. If AM2 was given the tap to make a sequel, I'd likely would get behind such a game. AM2 is one of the few "houses" within Sega that delivers consistently, even when it comes to "tie-in" games. 

Furthermore, the whole notion of the collection being called "Sonic Gems" is, of course, left up to the eye of the beholder.

CD? A definitive gem. The 3 Bare Knuckle/Streets of Rage games (in the JP version)? DEFINITELY gems, even if they're not the least bit related to Sonic. 

However....Spinball GG? Tails Sky Patrol? Sonic Drift 2? Sonic R?  Yeah, no.
Agreed, again. I would love it very much, if they made a sequel to the Metroid-like Sonic game they crafted. Plus, after so long of being reduced to Sonic's lil cheerleader all over again, maybe another solo role will up his street cred again.

However, without Aspect (the original developer of that game), I dunno how I would feel about such a game in other's hands.

Well, I was only referring to Fighters, but yeah, the other games are a mixed bag, too, come to think of it.

But Tails' Adventure is far and away a great deal. Sonic CD and Tails' Adventure are reason enough to own that game.


I don't know, I actually think Sonic Team could do really well with Tails' Adventure 2. They seem to like really cheesy storylines and extra characters; this might actually be a good way to have Tails and Marine/Cream/Wave/Big or maybe even some other lesser known characters work as a team and allow for co-op play.

[HokutoNoBen]

What we need is to bring bavck that gameplay balance that Sonic possessed in the nineties.

Not likely going to happen, unfortunately.

See, the thing that's probably MOST important to note is that, Sonic was as good as he was in the nineties, because he was made of the sum of great parts. Without those parts, he doesn't amount to much.

Naka and his original game code. Oshima and his character designs. Yasuhara and his level design. These are (arguably) the three main cornerstones that made Sonic what he was. All of the "Blast Processing" campaigning, the "hip" mascot character, marketing and all that? Wouldn't have meant a hill of beans if these three guys didn't have their hands involved in the project, and then came together to deliver something truly special.

Now-a-days, all 3 of those guys are off, doing their own thing, leaving Iizuka and the rest of modern Sonic Team to piddle along, and just churn out more Sonic games for kids to beg their parents to buy for Christmas.

It's basically the same thing for why Square Enix should probably NEVER do another Chrono game. Without the original people involved, it would likely end up being just something that would just sully the legacy of Chrono Trigger, and who wants that?

[spoiler]...as if that "new ending" didn't tick me off enough...[/spoiler] 

I don't know, I actually think Sonic Team could do really well with Tails' Adventure 2. They seem to like really cheesy storylines and extra characters; this might actually be a good way to have Tails and Marine/Cream/Wave/Big or maybe even some other lesser known characters work as a team and allow for co-op play.

No! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Don't give them ideas! 

[HyperSonicEXE]

Oh, but I must! It's a character flaw, you see!

Besides, how often is it we get a Castlevania/Metroid/whatever-esque game with co-op?
And cute, fuzzy forest creatures?
Wielding bombs?

EDIT: Funny story, I actually predicted Sonic Advance 2's final boss, Sonic Riders, and the use of super attacks (including Super Sonic) in SSBB.

My last idea was for the Chaos Emeralds to shapeshift into various elemental (or not) weapons. I doubt that one will happen, although I do seem to recall some Sonic X figures that used the emeralds as part of some kind of weaponry...

[Waifu]

Well, I guess I might as well search for the next cool thing from Sega. I just hope amongst all the [sonic slicer]ing crap they dish out, they finally create a Sonic game that even an old Sonic fan enjoy but also while it may not satisfy everyone, at least it will good game that will have its place among the classics. Till then, Sonic and some Storybook games and the kick ass music that still have going for them.

[Hypershell]

when's the last time we spindashed period? he can't even do it in the Storybook games or Unleashed. and i don't know if he had it in 06. instead, we get the Homing Attack.

Well, you could do both in the Adventures.  Whoring it for better speed was necessary for some of the emblems in the first, but it was pretty forgettable in the second (in fact it can screw up some of the stunts; "rolling around at the speed of sound" my butt).

Windy Valley post-tornado, Sonic Adventure 1.

...er, at least I did.

Good memory.  I just jump the thing.

[Fxeni]

Spindash was fun to use in SA2 at certain points just to gather some quick speed, but otherwise it was mostly useless, which is a shame.

[STM]

EDIT: Funny story, I actually predicted Sonic Advance 2's final boss, Sonic Riders, and the use of super attacks (including Super Sonic) in SSBB.

Who didn't see Sonic's final smash as Super Sonic? What else was he going to do? Run around and circles and cause a tornado to blow everyone away? Call in Tails to crash the Tornado into the field, causing a screen wide explosion?

[HokutoNoBen]

Who didn't see Sonic's final smash as Super Sonic? What else was he going to do? Run around and circles and cause a tornado to blow everyone away? Call in Tails to crash the Tornado into the field, causing a screen wide explosion?

The music could've changed to Sonic 1's Boss Music, and Dr. Eggman would have wrecked house with his Wrecking Ball formation. 

[HyperSonicEXE]

Who didn't see Sonic's final smash as Super Sonic? What else was he going to do? Run around and circles and cause a tornado to blow everyone away? Call in Tails to crash the Tornado into the field, causing a screen wide explosion?

Actually, yeah, that one. Especially considering Mario wasn't going to use a Starman but rather used some vague never-before-seen fire attack, so a number of people thought Super Sonic would be a no-show.

[Hypershell]

Evidently those people were running dinosaur computers that cannot stream media: Super Sonic was featured in Sonic's announcement video.

[HyperSonicEXE]

Before that trailer. Although I had no idea Sonic would actually be in Brawl. Just that, if Sonic had to have some sort of uber special attack and ever made it into SSB, it'd be Super Sonic.

Can't blame people for thinking Super Sonic wouldn't be playable when he hasn't even been playable in the course of regular stages. Super Sonic could have been a final cutscene-only thing.

[Hypershell]

The absence of Super Sonic is only true of platformers, though (see Sonic Riders).  And actually Brawl doesn't even change that, given that Smash Balls don't appear in SSE (SAKURAAAAAI!!!).

Likewise, Starman is not really comparable to Super Sonic.  It's a generic short-term invulnerability, and one which Smash already included anyway.  That'd have been like giving Sonic the star item box.  Super Sonic is not merely a status change but an alternate form, able to be maintained indefinitely depending on rings, and allowing flight when gameplay permits (hovering and large jumps when it does not).

[HyperSonicEXE]

That's all true; I'd still prefer a Starman over Mario Finale, though. /wii

[Waifu]

Starman rocks but Super Sonic is the [metal blade].

[Jericho]

That's all true; I'd still prefer a Starman over Mario Finale, though. /wii

Rainbow Mario if anything, still though the Mario Finale was great for sheer wow factor (see E3 2006 Reveal trailer) and it's pretty freakin' cool gameplay wise. Then there's the fact that the only logic Smash has to follow is it's own. I'd have been saying wat every time Mario did a FS and got a more powerful Starman when Bowser's friggin' goin' Super Sayajin.