Ancient Theories/Fanon

The Great Gonzo · 91012

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Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #100 on: January 07, 2009, 05:15:58 AM
It's gotta mean "brought back Wily" in terms of data; there's no way Wily's still alive, in fact, it says he died.

I guess it's a similar fashion to Dr. Light.
That right there is exactly what I mean.  Fanon.  I mean, it makes sense, but ... it might just make a little too much sense.  If you get my meaning.


Offline HyperSonicEXE

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Reply #101 on: January 07, 2009, 05:22:28 AM
That right there is exactly what I mean.  Fanon.  I mean, it makes sense, but ... it might just make a little too much sense.  If you get my meaning.

True, not to mention it's not fact.

My gosh, Wily could have taken any number of forms. Capsules, cyberspace, virus, wireframe virus, face-in-the-monitor, self-reconstructing robot, who knows?

No one, that's who.



Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #102 on: January 07, 2009, 05:27:02 AM
True, not to mention it's not fact.

My gosh, Wily could have taken any number of forms. Capsules, cyberspace, virus, wireframe virus, face-in-the-monitor, self-reconstructing robot, who knows?

No one, that's who.
You left out reanimated corpse and ghost!  SPOOKY!


Offline HyperSonicEXE

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Reply #103 on: January 07, 2009, 05:29:47 AM
Ghost, I can see. Soul, I can see.

Zombies? Impossible, for a number of reasons, none the least of which are medical.



Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #104 on: January 07, 2009, 06:41:21 AM
That may depend on how you define zombies, though.



Offline Align

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Reply #105 on: January 08, 2009, 02:19:20 AM



Offline HyperSonicEXE

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Reply #106 on: January 08, 2009, 02:24:15 AM
That would've been nice if Wily had possessed Sigma for the first fight, trying to communicate with X and Zero, but the syntax was messed up due to data format mess-ups (or however you'd explain Wily saying JUS DIE XXX).

That may depend on how you define zombies, though.

True, if they're reanimated by sorcery, now that's one thing.
But as far as an empty host body being reanimated, the body's support structure is severely damaged and wouldn't be capable of movement, much less a whole host of bodily functions.




Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #107 on: January 09, 2009, 12:59:22 AM
But what if they haven't been dead that long?



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #108 on: January 09, 2009, 03:24:38 AM
That would've been nice if Wily had possessed Sigma for the first fight, trying to communicate with X and Zero, but the syntax was messed up due to data format mess-ups.
As much as I'm surprised to hear myself arguing with a "more Wily" scenario, I WOULD NOT change a thing with the X6 Sigma fight.  Sigma's only been dead 3 weeks, it makes sense that he's not up to snuff yet.  Plus the whole joy of that battle (besides the extraordinarily rocking remix in part 2) is kicking the baddie while he's down, something that is sadly lacking in most fantasies period, much less MegaMan.

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Offline HyperSonicEXE

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Reply #109 on: January 09, 2009, 03:46:49 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot about the 3 weeks bit. I figure Wily would be impatient, so much so as to even try and fight X with an incomplete Sigma.

But X6's final battles did have a great feel to it.



Offline marshmallow man

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Reply #110 on: January 09, 2009, 04:39:53 AM
Sorry to derail the zombie discussion, but I'm going to write as though this were still a nostalgia thread.

Classic fanon is great stuff. I remember Pixelboy's site, and how amazed I was at the time that he could rip the sprite textures out of the game like that and arrange them on display. Or was it Megaboy I'm thinking of? He had a website too, I think I might be getting them mixed up, but IIRC Megaboy was more fanfic geared. And Maelgrim's Rockman World, I think it was called, with its oodles of Rockman MIDIs. Slash(Man?)'s Mega Maniacs had that really cool world map design, where each section of the site was somebody's headquarters, like Skull Castle or Big Eddie's or Maverick Hunter base. And Generation Mega Man X, the webmaster was called Illumina I think, which I think was the first place I'd ever seen scans of Rockman (primarily X) mangas. I was really impressed by all the unique extensively inclusive character art and profiles of M Sipher's Megalopolis back then too.

And then of course there was the MMHP... So much great fanon. Break Man being a welder bot suffering a teleporter accident. Bioroids. So many things like that which wound up almost subconsciously being taken for granted.

What else... I remember a rumor that Return X of Mega Mission was going to be appearing in X4, based on some early screenshots with "R" logos on it. I think it was the Meganest bee-hive enemy from Web Spider's stage, some people thought it was RX's Limited cocoon or something. Mega Mission was taken pretty seriously back then, even though it didn't seem that anybody in the English-speaking net really understood the story, so that RX would return seemed like a natural conclusion.

That mangas were the official story of the game was a big assumption back then, too. They told the story of what "really happened" in a way the games, being games, could not. Although again, nobody really seemed to know exactly what was going on in them, everybody tended to give up an argument when somebody says "according to the manga, this happened." Some stuff was more infamous though, like Centaurman actually being a woman, or X having a mermaid/pirate girlfriend, and a persistent rumor about the games taking place "Tokio" Texas because somebody managed to translate part of a sign in the R6 manga. But then there were some things just generally way off, like Cain's reported death in the X4 manga, or Teal/Till/Tyr as Zero's love interest instead of Eagleed's. Or so-and-so being overtly homosexual, although besides X and Zero I don't remember who else was said... maybe Snakeman or Starman... Oh, and some Japanese fanfic site that gave full names to some characters like Iris Rose or Zero Omega (heh) that were taken as official.

And I remember there was some Japanese (fan, presumably) artwork of X in a crystal armor and Zero in a flame armor that looked so good that many thought it was real artwork for a future X game. And that pic of a cloaked Zero with the X6 logo superimposed that was taken as official as well, I think the artist eventually took credit for that one some years later.

And the insistance that the Guns and Roses names in X5 were fake up until the game was released, I remember. That Zero would stay dead after X5, too.

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"zero is totally roll!! since megaman is in the 22nd century as MMX it makes sence dr. light would upgrade roll too, and you see that they're both blonde, wear red and if you say zero's name real slow it becomes SEE-ROLL!"

Remember that too! Something that always stuck with me was when someone suggested Zero was an acronym for Zeta Roll, which seemed fairly clever. And to think all that was before Roll acquired her swing attacks...

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Legends took place in an alternate universe, similar to how the Classic & EXE series differed.

IIRC, gaming mags in the US did present the game that way. Calling it was a brand new world with new human characters (another big misconception, but could probably be considered a spoiler to say otherwise) and such. Actually, the Rockman 10 Years History Book written by Ariga makes the same claims about the DASH series, that its setting has nothing to do with the rest or the Rockman series and uses entirely different characters who are humans instead of robots, as a completely new adventure anime-styled take on the Rockman franchise. There's a chance he had written that before the game had came out or when it was out only a short time, though Ariga generally seemed disinterested in the DASH series around that time anyway. Still kinda shows that that idea was present in many medias on either hemisphere. I wonder if it wasn't a "Beast Wars planet is Earth" kind of scenario, where they tried to leave it open to decide later whether they wanted DASH to be in the same world or not. Or just leave you guessing. But because of the reference in L1's library about how MegaMan was a historic name, I was a fan of the theory they were distantly connected worlds far before it became officially announced.

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Serges = Wily

Back then, there would have been no convincing me of that. The US script drops nearly everything that would lead one to connect the two. I don't think I even put together that Zero was Wily's creation until I read about Power Fighters on the internet. From X2, I just thought last of the doctor's creations meant Dr. Cain, and that Sigma thought Zero would follow in his footsteps since Cain built Sigma as well. Which is why Cain would have a backup of Zero's control chip. And that the X-Hunters simply fixed up the parts left broken in Sigma's last fortress, which wasn't that amazing because besides being state of the art nobody ever said that Zero was nigh unanalyzable to us.  I thought the X3 manual was talking about his re-creation as being mysterious rather than his initial one, because of the nefarious nature of his revival. And the reason Zero would have to be destroyed per X3's US ending was because they had put something inside him during that time that could still turn him evil again someday, or possibly even help keep Sigma alive. All of which would have made fine sense, with the standard level of understanding back then...

Times have changed, of course. The connection between Sagesse and Wily now seems quite obvious and very intentional, though I'd hardly believe they had all the details ironed out back then, or even that they do currently. Wily coming back in a metal body to revive his greatest work and providing his support to the new main evil character is a cool idea. That they had some strict outline of how Wily's data got into Sagesse and where he'd been during the first X game and even before that, or the transition of how from there he became Sigma's shadowy partner or investigator scientist Isoc, I rather doubt. Leaving mysteries for us to talk about that don't necessarily have a true answer is one thing Cappy loves to do, greatly vexing for those searching for facts, but great for creating controversy and drumming up interest. Well, until they drag it out for too long while making things more and more convoluted to the point where some alienated longtime fans lose their interest and give up on them ever writing satisfying conclusions to what once really seemed like it was going somewhere. Over a decade after X3 came out, R20 still didn't want to come out with a straightforward answer to the Sagesse/Wily question. Certainly enough to cast doubt on whether it will ever be thoroughly and officially explained beyond our theories. That said, I'm still hanging in there, have found interest in the later X series and still have hope for more answers in the future, though I can certainly see and at times have felt that certain plot elements played out to be sloppy and disappointing. Of course, nostalgia is a big driving factor for me with this as well, which made perusing this thread all the more fun.




Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #111 on: January 09, 2009, 05:10:36 AM
That mangas were the official story of the game was a big assumption back then, too. They told the story of what "really happened" in a way the games, being games, could not. Although again, nobody really seemed to know exactly what was going on in them, everybody tended to give up an argument when somebody says "according to the manga, this happened."
I remember that a page made claims the X4 manga introduced a second Zero who would be the "TRUE" Zero, and this second Zero is of course evil, and that he would be the original one and the one that helped throughout everything post-X2 would be a clone. Yeah, seriously.

Oh, I remember the page now. It was ZeroXGold's (EXTREEEEEEEEME! *guitar twang*).

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X having a mermaid/pirate girlfriend
I think the same page that said Teal was Zero's love interest also called Marty "KARIN".

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Oh, and some Japanese fanfic site that gave full names to some characters like Iris Rose or Zero Omega (heh) that were taken as official.
If it's the same one I'm thinking about, it's Virtual Study Desk / Codename Yoshi, author Ryunosoke Kayama. I recall he had "Iris Thorne", "Zero Omega", "Marty Gibson", "Signas Lancaster", "Gate Renoir"... and the list goes on and on.

The Mega Mission manga girl also showed up there as "Ann Aldworth". I don't even know if she had a name in the manga.

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And the insistance that the Guns and Roses names in X5 were fake up until the game was released, I remember. That Zero would stay dead after X5, too.
That was a good one. The reviewer himself for Tips 'n Tricks signed up on GameFAQs to say "sorry, it's legit". Of course, those who knew Mega Man better than Capcom said it was continued bull on their part.

Then it all became a clever plot device that showed us Reploids could have "civilian names".

Uh huh.

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The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
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a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #112 on: January 09, 2009, 05:31:58 AM
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Sorry to derail the zombie discussion, but I'm going to write as though this were still a nostalgia thread.

*hugs* THANK YOU.

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And then of course there was the MMHP... So much great fanon. Break Man being a welder bot suffering a teleporter accident. Bioroids. So many things like that which wound up almost subconsciously being taken for granted.

...like her massive hate-on for anything that tries to change Megaman. >.> And yet she apparently went easier on Cap N MM than RS-MM because the former's personality was "right"...On the less cynical side, I've adopted the idea of Breakman being an industrial robot myself, minus the transporter accident.

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And I remember there was some Japanese (fan, presumably) artwork of X in a crystal armor and Zero in a flame armor that looked so good that many thought it was real artwork for a future X game. And that pic of a cloaked Zero with the X6 logo superimposed that was taken as official as well, I think the artist eventually took credit for that one some years later.

First two: You still got those pics? Second: Yeah, he did take credit for it. Damn good picture, too. :)

About Capcom's open-endedness: What's really infuriating is when you come up with a plausible solution/theory, then Capcom goes and says something else several years after the fact, completely shattering your previous notions. While not as extreme, Propane (Promes and Pandora) being siblings made my comedic NSFW pic as awkward as a redneck in a toga...but I digress.

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I think the same page that said Teal was Zero's love interest also called Marty "KARIN".

Like how Giroette's name was initially "translated" as Silve?

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If it's the same one I'm thinking about, it's Virtual Study Desk / Codename Yoshi, author Ryunosoke Kayama. I recall he had "Iris Thorne", "Zero Omega", "Marty Gibson", "Signas Lancaster", "Gate Renoir"... and the list goes on and on.

So my occasionally calling him "Axl Low" wasn't so original, huh? Sad thing is, I actually like those surnames. Goes to show what a dork I am.


I might as well throw a few of my "theories" from 2004 in. Before being able to get very far in any of the games in AC (I never made it to any of the fort levels), I wondered if Megaman lived in a dictatorship slightly less nasty than 1984's Party, if Protoman was somewhat evil (I blame MM3 and MM5), if Bass and Treble were outlaws who grudgingly hung out with Megaman, and if the MM, MMX, MML, and MMZ were all capable of coexisting to a point (imagine Axl X Leviathan, nasty!Tron X Classic Megaman, Zero and Iris as robot Jessie and James, etc.).

Folks, this is what happens when you suck at Classic Megaman.   



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #113 on: January 09, 2009, 05:37:43 AM
That was a good one. The reviewer himself for Tips 'n Tricks signed up on GameFAQs to say "sorry, it's legit". Of course, those who knew Mega Man better than Capcom said it was continued bull on their part.

Then it all became a clever plot device that showed us Reploids could have "civilian names".

Uh huh.
Even better was X6.  Everybody and their dog claimed that the Maverick names were the result of some massive mistranslation.  Turned out the exact opposite was true: X6 carried the most literal boss translations yet.

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Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #114 on: January 09, 2009, 05:42:52 AM
First two: You still got those pics?
I remember these pictures myself although I didn't save them.

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Like how Giroette's name was initially "translated" as Silve?
I was uninterested in ZX from the beginning, but I remember some fellow forumgoer of a brazilian board saying calling him "Silve" didn't really match the kanas.

But well, when we were revealed "Ciel"'s name, half the internet jumped on to call her "TEAL" too. Since Babelfish gave you that result and stuff... or whichever other translation.

And on this case here, well, you see the webmaster didn't really know A from B. Just said Marty ("Karin") was X's "mermaid girlfriend, pretty cool" and if you ask me all that remained to be added was "she doesn't afraid of anything".

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So my occasionally calling him "Axl Low" wasn't so original, huh? Sad thing is, I actually like those surnames. Goes to show what a dork I am.
I like that surname.

The "problem" I saw with these given surnames is that people said "it's in a Japanese site, they know better than us, so they're OFFICIAL!". 'lo and behold, half the intarnet called Zero "Zero Omega" for a nice chunk of time.

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and if the MM, MMX, MML, and MMZ were all capable of coexisting to a point (imagine Axl X Leviathan, nasty!Tron X Classic Megaman, Zero and Iris as robot Jessie and James, etc.).
I paid so much attention to the games I didn't even really know the X series and the Classic series were set apart by centuries. I popped these cartridges in and went on my merryway of shoving yellow bullets down weird looking robot's throats. And I couldn't be happier.

Even "Mega X" didn't really... register. Only when that scan of EGM where Inafune said he set the X series to happen 100 years after the classic series surfaced I was like "Now that explains a lot!"

(10 seconds later)

"And leaves a lot more to be explained."

CATACLYSM COMMETH!

Oh yes, on the matter of fanon... when Rockman X5 was released, most of our gaming mags did their coverage of it. Plot was obviously vague, with the one being the most descriptive saying that Zero was infected by a virus at the same time the colony was falling. OK, whatever.

The fun part: ALL of the bosses' names were the fanon ones. "Tidal Whale", "Burn T-Rex", and all that. They didn't cover how you could obtain the equippable parts either... which there were no online FAQs covering at the time the game hit. Says something, doesn't it?

Even when Mega Man & Bass was released for the GBA, a gaming mag here covering it gave the original japanese title, and then in the article themselves said that "Bass (Slash in Brazil)". I was like "Ok, WHAT? First you guys want to use a name that was pulled out of the comic's arse, and if that weren't enough you GET IT WRONG? Oh, good one!".

Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Reply #115 on: January 09, 2009, 07:06:37 AM
Break Man being a welder bot suffering a teleporter accident.
Ooh, I remember one fan theory where Dr. Wily started out as an actual good guy, but a teleporter accident turned him evil.  Yeah...  Teleporters can do anything!  But I'll stick with the theory of ProtoMan as an advanced police robot.

What else... I remember a rumor that Return X of Mega Mission was going to be appearing in X4, based on some early screenshots with "R" logos on it. I think it was the Meganest bee-hive enemy from Web Spider's stage, some people thought it was RX's Limited cocoon or something. Mega Mission was taken pretty seriously back then, even though it didn't seem that anybody in the English-speaking net really understood the story, so that RX would return seemed like a natural conclusion.
While we're talking about RX, does anyone know if that's related to the "Rx and Ry" from the old magazine preview of Mega Man X posted here?

I remember that a page made claims the X4 manga introduced a second Zero who would be the "TRUE" Zero, and this second Zero is of course evil, and that he would be the original one and the one that helped throughout everything post-X2 would be a clone. Yeah, seriously.
Isn't that like what they ended up doing in the Zero series?

Even better was X6.  Everybody and their dog claimed that the Maverick names were the result of some massive mistranslation.  Turned out the exact opposite was true: X6 carried the most literal boss translations yet.
This is what happens when you don't localize a series consistently!



Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #116 on: January 09, 2009, 07:13:31 AM
While we're talking about RX, does anyone know if that's related to the "Rx and Ry" from the old magazine preview of Mega Man X posted here?
No, RX is just the shortened version for "Return X", X's evil doppelganger, originally called just "EX". Rx and Ry were meant to be some support guys.

Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline marshmallow man

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Reply #117 on: January 09, 2009, 09:35:25 AM
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I recall he had "Iris Thorne"

Yuss, that was it. Thorne, not Rose (though every rose has its... nevermind).

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You still got those pics?

Actually, it seems I do! Huzzah!



It isn't really as impressive now as it was back when they appeared, looks kinda grainy and pinched (maybe there is a higher quality version somewhere?), the poses look partially copied from other pieces, but keep in mind that this (I can't seem to find the X4 page ATM, that would have been a way better/worse example) is the quality level of images on Capcom's site at the time, even official images tended to look grainy and of low quality, so for its time it was quite good.

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Ooh, I remember one fan theory where Dr. Wily started out as an actual good guy, but a teleporter accident turned him evil.  Yeah...  Teleporters can do anything!

I think that was a central theme of a semi-famous fanfic that also included human characters who hated/feared robots. Was it called the Robot War, or the Wily War or something? Did Maelgrim write that? Someone do my research for me.

On the subject, I remember a lot of fans being influenced by Red Draco's fanfics for a while as well. That how things were depicted in Bass is Not A Fish (I think it was?) was how the original series ended, or at least how it should have. But as was already mentioned, Cataclysm was king before it even had a name. It was just what we all expected, I guess, in some version or another.



Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Reply #118 on: January 09, 2009, 06:39:45 PM
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Actually, it seems I do! Huzzah!

And that brings up a whole damn lot of memories too.

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(I can't seem to find the X4 page ATM, that would have been a way better/worse example)
http://www.capcom.co.jp/newproducts/consumer/rockmanx4/rockmanx4.html

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I think that was a central theme of a semi-famous fanfic that also included human characters who hated/feared robots. Was it called the Robot War, or the Wily War or something? Did Maelgrim write that? Someone do my research for me.
I recall Maelgrim having a fanfic with a title akin to that - but damned if I ever read it. My English was just starting to crawl back then, I could barely keep up an IM convo straight, let alone read literary works.

Quote
The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
Quote
a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

--

Whenever it comes to "consensus" and things alike, always remember Tony Bullet-Tooth's sage advice:
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."


Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #119 on: January 09, 2009, 08:35:23 PM


There's a pic without the logo on Deviant Art if you look.  But this thing actually's on my site somewhere now. 



Origional zeroXGold.



The most AMZAZING!!!111!!11!! sprite sheet OF ALL TIME!
It was made by Pizelboy.  It was the only one you could take off his site for your own sprite gallery and he insisted on credit being given (MASSIVE change in public opinion on hoe that works now ... myself, I still like getting and giving credit).  Everybody had this thing on their site at the time.


Offline VixyNyan

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Reply #120 on: January 09, 2009, 08:57:24 PM
Oh wow, a trip back to memory lane! Thanks, Gauntlet~ 0v0

The palette colors, deformed Zero pixels, and ZeroXGold. So wonderful! 8D

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Offline Gauntlet101010

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Reply #121 on: January 09, 2009, 09:08:44 PM
http://themechanicalmaniacs.com/misc/retro/Retro.shtml

You know, I wasn't gonna toot my on horn, but I made a page commemorating the ancient community when I first made the Mechanical Maniacs.  There's a link.  Incidentally, it's why I still have all these sorts of images just lying around.  It might be worth an update.  This topic makes me feel nostalgic.

Except X6 Zero.  That's from something else.


Offline VixyNyan

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Reply #122 on: January 09, 2009, 09:14:45 PM


See? This is what I'm talking about. MANY years ago, this wasn't even possible if you didn't cleverly using your TV and/or VCR, and did one of the following things:

1) grab parts of a screen with a camera and cut the sprite out of the snapshot.
2) redraw the sprite from scratch.

But now thanks to emulators and tile editors, it's so good to get pixel-perfect sprites.

Memories. ^^

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Offline Align

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Reply #123 on: January 09, 2009, 09:55:58 PM
gold Woodman?



Offline VixyNyan

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Reply #124 on: January 09, 2009, 10:02:18 PM
Sarcasm aside, it was thanks to color palettes back in the days of emulation past.

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