Topic: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)

[Protoman Blues]

Like I said though, her point was that there could be one if they wanted to do it.  And it wouldn't actually take much effort either.

[Bueno Excelente]

That position was already taken by Most Excellent Superbat.

Ooooh, I KNEW you thought about me when I wasn't around, buttercup! 

Anyway, new Megaman game. Rad. Cool. Not alot of details, but heck, crossovers between other, classic Capcom games! And fan references all around in that trailer, so I guess they're trying to excite fans as much as possible.

It's gonna be a downloadable game, so I guess I'm not gonna see the 3D Megaman game I've always wanted. And the fact that they're showing off so much classicness makes me believe that it's most probably gonna have the classic sprites of pretty much everything, too. Has anyone thought of a possible Megaman series crossover yet? Maybe they wanna unite all the series and tie loose ends to some of them. Or at least provide an encyclopedia of facts, ala Smash Bros Melee/Brawl Trophy list, that tells us stuff we didn't know, and that ties up some storylines Capcom doesn't want to follow.

[Turian]

Ooooh, I KNEW you thought about me when I wasn't around, buttercup! 

This guy is THE life of this crazy ass party!

[Bueno Excelente]

This guy is THE life of this crazy ass party!

You know the board wouldn't be any fun without me around.

[Blackhook]

...Who are you again?

[Hypershell]

I just think of him as Necko's replacement.

.....so then why can't their be two continuities?

I never said there aren't.  I said that the difference between them is naming and the unavoidable side effects thereof.  The page of factoids that Gonzo linked is creative liberties, not continuity.  There's a difference.  Continuity is to be respected by future projects.

Actually, stuff like that can be fixed with a simple re-write or retcon.

In other words, disregarded.  Why?  Because Japanese continuity demands it so.  My point.



BTW, Saber provides us with a bit of German continuity:

Then again, when I was a kid and I played X1 on the SNES, I thought Zero was a girl but that was due to the fact that at that age, I couldn't read English and even the German manual turned Zero into a female.

[The Great Gonzo]

Then again, when I was a kid and I played X1 on the SNES, I thought Zero was a girl but that was due to the fact that at that age, I couldn't read English and even the German manual turned Zero into a female.

Ah, good to know. Makes me wonder if the change stuck.


After looking at all the posts that were made while I was asleep (damn time zone differences), I'd just like to say:

1.) "Crappy" translation does not excuse complete dismissal.
2.) No matter what you do, you can't change the fact that alterations were made. Dismissing them as "liberties" doesn't make them go away.

If you dismiss them but still talk about all the games sharing the same continuity, it raises problems, for the simple fact that not everything can overlap without conflict. The best thing to do in this case is to separate them and keep them separate.

Oh, and I don't appreciate getting jumped on for that original comment I made. >.>

[Flame]

Nobody jumped on you. You made a comment, we followed up on it. If 3 people jumped on the bandwagon against your point, thats not jumping on you. It means those 3 people did not agree with you. Its Neko-Err- Most Excellent Superbat's job to jump on people.

The fact is though, if you insist on continuities, then that means in the German Continuity, Zero is a female robot in X1 and somehow then became male later. Since the localizers made it such, its "canon". You cannot say that it does not count because they didnt preserve it in future games, because your "US Continuity"'s changes never "stuck". they changed for every game, and had no relevance to the last. its not like the "unification prophesy" ever amounted to anything, and Zero's "blueprints" from X2 were never heard of again. Hell, the wily assistant thing was never touched upon, and even the box art is inconsistent. the US changes are not consistent across the series, which is why it cannot be considered a seperate continuity. if it was, it would respect itself and it's changes.

Capcom US and Japan have made NO effort to preserve alternate continuities.

Your right, they were done, and that wont go away, but that does not mean that Capcom cannot try and "forget" them and bring the story back on track for the US audience. Which is what sourcebooks like Complete works can do, if even slightly. And PU. I think

[Protoman Blues]

I just think of him as Necko's replacement.

He's absolutely nothing like Neko.

I never said there aren't.  I said that the difference between them is naming and the unavoidable side effects thereof.  The page of factoids that Gonzo linked is creative liberties, not continuity.  There's a difference.  Continuity is to be respected by future projects.

Haha, from what I've seen of most Japanese writing at times, they don't care much about continuity.

In other words, disregarded.  Why?  Because Japanese continuity demands it so.  My point.

Or X can not see MegaMan as a Maverick. Multiple options in terms of writing, especially for something as insanely simple as a video game storyline.

[The Great Gonzo]

Nobody jumped on you.

Damned if it didn't FEEL like it. >.>

Capcom US and Japan have made NO effort to preserve alternate continuities.

Just because THEY don't doesn't mean WE can't. Hell, I've been doing that ever since I accepted that region-sorting was a good idea.

By that logic, no one would be allowed to talk about Sonia Belmont just because IGA struck her from the timeline.

[VixyNyan]

By that logic, no one would be allowed to talk about Sonia Belmont just because IGA struck her from the timeline.

That still makes me sad.

[The Great Gonzo]

That still makes me sad.

Same here... ;_; I mean, so many interesting things could've been done with the Belmonts being linked to the Tepes (wasn't it implied that her kid's father was Alucard). But I digress.

[Hypershell]

2.) No matter what you do, you can't change the fact that alterations were made. Dismissing them as "liberties" doesn't make them go away.

Yet you cannot deny that the game creators deem them irrelevant for the purpose of continuing the story.  If the localization team does the same, then the "continuity" we arrive at is no longer even CoA-approved, and exists solely to the players who take it upon themselves to do so.  Dangerously close to fanon, I'd say.

He's absolutely nothing like Neko.

Neko is female and therefore, whether she will admit it or not, unable to resist your sexiness.  A major factor which does not affect the rest of us mere mortals not created in the image of Blues.

Haha, from what I've seen of most Japanese writing at times, they don't care much about continuity.

Capcom isn't Inticreates.  Even so, Inti does this as a means to an end, not as a routine practice with every title.

Or X can not see MegaMan as a Maverick.

Pointing a gun at an unarmed human begging forgiveness is exceedingly difficult to excuse.  X hesitates to pull the trigger on characters even when their resolve is unshaken.  Even if X manages to come to that conclusion, it would only be through great deliberation, which would not exist in the original game.

By that logic, no one would be allowed to talk about Sonia Belmont just because IGA struck her from the timeline.

First of all, nobody is talking about what can and cannot be talked about.

Second, an existing character later stricken from the timeline may be discussed as a valid "what if" scenario.  By taking such an extremes you rule out the validity of discussing Awakened Zero.

[VixyNyan]

Same here... ;_; I mean, so many interesting things could've been done with the Belmonts being linked to the Tepes (wasn't it implied that her kid's father was Alucard). But I digress.

She was also going to be part in the now-cancelled Castlevania Resurrection for the Dreamcast. She did form a romantic relationship with Alucard too. And since her child Ralph (Trevor) Belmont is part of the canon, it isn't a good idea to just change the canon so that his (biological) mother isn't mentioned at all. x.x

I liked how even female Belmonts were able to use the Vampire Killer to defeat the evil spirits and vampires of Castlevania, so that inspired me to make "Rebecca (VixyNyan) Belmont" part of a CV fanon. But that's completely off-topic tho, so I should talk about it someplace else. ^^;

[Hypershell]

But that's completely off-topic tho...

Oh, Vixy, aren't we past that?

(in all fairness, there really is nothing MMU-relevant to discuss besides the fact that it exists, which has been well covered, otherwise I'd at least make an effort to maintain that simultaneously with the continuity schtik)

[The Great Gonzo]

Yet you cannot deny that the game creators deem them irrelevant for the purpose of continuing the story.  If the localization team does the same, then the "continuity" we arrive at is no longer even CoA-approved, and exists solely to the players who take it upon themselves to do so.  Dangerously close to fanon, I'd say.

Well, nothing in the US continuity has affected the JP continuity, which is the "authoritative" one, so there's no harm in continuing to refer to it as "the US continuity". >.>

First of all, nobody is talking about what can and cannot be talked about.

I was trying to think of an example. In hindsight, it was a bad one.

But really, what makes more sense? Separating the two continuities (how many times have I used that word?) due to changes that don't overlap, or trying to say they're the same and then having to argue over differences?

[Bueno Excelente]

He's absolutely nothing like Neko.

Still have no idea who Neko is.

Other than that, I'm guessing that, from those other characters, Megaman will probably be using them as powerups or something. If that actually entails FIGHTING them as bosses, I'd certainly love to see that.

Megaman versus Strider. That'd be a fight to watch. I just wouldn't like it if half the roster ended up being Street Fighter characters.

[OBJECTION MAN]

She was also going to be part in the now-cancelled Castlevania Resurrection for the Dreamcast. She did form a romantic relationship with Alucard too. And since her child Ralph (Trevor) Belmont is part of the canon, it isn't a good idea to just change the canon so that his (biological) mother isn't mentioned at all. x.x

I liked how even female Belmonts were able to use the Vampire Killer to defeat the evil spirits and vampires of Castlevania, so that inspired me to make "Rebecca (VixyNyan) Belmont" part of a CV fanon. But that's completely off-topic tho, so I should talk about it someplace else. ^^;

On a technical side note here, Legends contradicted the actual established canon up to that point. That is why it was removed. The Dreamcast game also looked pretty terrible the more I learned of it. It has a Belmont who runs away from his destiny like a coward. He is time traveled to the past in the year 1666 and cries like a pussy and doesn't fight. Then Sonia gets time traveled to the year 1666 to make him stop being a pussy. And then all this was orchestrated by an ass ugly female Dracula character. Terrible, even by video game story standards. No wonder it got canceled.

[The Great Gonzo]

Other than that, I'm guessing that, from those other characters, Megaman will probably be using them as powerups or something. If that actually entails FIGHTING them as bosses, I'd certainly love to see that.

Capcom could bring in some Onimusha guys.

On a technical side note here, Legends contradicted the actual established canon up to that point. That is why it was removed. The Dreamcast game also looked pretty terrible the more I learned of it. It has a Belmont who runs away from his destiny like a coward. He is time traveled to the past in the year 1666 and cries like a pussy and doesn't fight. Then Sonia gets time traveled to the year 1666 to make him stop being a pussy. And then all this was orchestrated by an ass ugly female Dracula character. Terrible, even by video game story standards. No wonder it got canceled.

I heard that the real reason that it was canceled was that the game itself stunk. Nothing to do with the story.

[Bueno Excelente]

Capcom could bring in some Onimusha guys.

I would kill for a Jean Reno boss.

...or even some Sengoku Basara dudes. "Yo, Rokkuman! Put ya guns oohn!"

[Ramzal]

You know, if someone were to take the time and thought that Hyper, Zan's and whoever has the urge to debate Megaman timelines in an off topic conversation like serious business and convert that into a an operation that's constructive, we could have cured cancer three times over by now.

As far as that new game goes, if it's a "Take a picture of your room and have Megaman run through it", then most gamers are going to have an Olympic obstacle course set.

[The Great Gonzo]

You know, if someone were to take the time and thought that Hyper, Zan's and whoever has the urge to debate Megaman timelines in an off topic conversation like serious business and convert that into a an operation that's constructive, we could have cured cancer three times over by now.

I dunno; projects/operations associated with me tend to peter out. ^^;

As far as that new game goes, if it's a "Take a picture of your room and have Megaman run through it", then most gamers are going to have an Olympic obstacle course set.

The right half of my room would be worthy of a Wily Stage, I think.

[Hypershell]

You know, if someone were to take the time and thought that Hyper, Zan's and whoever has the urge to debate Megaman timelines in an off topic conversation like serious business and convert that into a an operation that's constructive, we could have cured cancer three times over by now.

Maybe in other corners of the world.  Here in the U.S., the Ferrengi run the FDA.

Well, nothing in the US continuity has affected the JP continuity, which is the "authoritative" one, so there's no harm in continuing to refer to it as "the US continuity". >.>

Again, I'm not objecting to that.  My issue is not using the term, "U.S. continuity", but rather how you define it.  Or, your page of factoids stating every localization kwirk as its own continuity.  The "U.S. continuity", as I see it, consists of proper noun changes, and Roll Caskett being able to speak and choosing her favorite video game character prior to age 1.  That's pretty much it.

An example from the page you linked earlier: "Arm Cannon".  How the hell is that continuity?  It's a self-explanatory informal label, frequently used to this day by fans to differentiate traditional Busters from "Buster Shot" type weapons.  It's not in any way story-relevant.

As you yourself stated, Japan's continuity is the "authorative" one.  U.S. continuity will never affect it.  Continuity within the U.S. localizations can only exist where such changes are consistent (change of terms, and side effects thereof; no other alteration is currently pursued by CoA).  Any other alteration, to be forgotten by future translations, is a creative liberty of no story relevance.  The story is written in Japan, and merely translated elsewhere.

[The Great Gonzo]

Gauntlet wasn't saying that EVERY change was its own continuity; rather, they're all a part of the US continuity, even if it's all jumbled. The real conflict was with the MM1 box and manual (which both said different things about "Humanoids").

[Hypershell]

If they cannot be reconciled with each other, much less the storyline as it continues, they do not constitute a single continuity.  They constitute, at best, their own individual continuities which have since been abandoned (at worst, some marketing guy pulling stuff completely out of his ass).  Thus we arrive at several "U.S. continuities", and you must specify which source to which you are referring.  Such is the case when discussing the storyline of the Ruby Spears cartoon, for example.

"Canon" or "continuity" can truthfully refer to any interpretation one chooses.  It may not even refer to the game storylines at all but to entirely separate merchandise that re-interprets the story (see: "manga is not canon"; the shorthand way of saying manga is its own canon, and is not game canon).  When written with no descriptor, it is assumed the most authoritative one; in this case, the original from which all others are derived.  Using the word "interpretation" simply specifies that the continuity at hand is a derivitave.

 For "continuity", or the "continuous or connected whole", to exist, the changes must be continuous and connected, functioning as one.  Rock appearing on MM1 box art as a 40 year old guy with gold highlights and a pistol does not form continuity with any other MegaMan information.  It is not continuous, not connected, not acknowledged, by any other source in the game story, except as an inside joke.  To refer to its continuity is literally to refer to a world with no other source whatsoever besides that one image.