The Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Topic (ITS MAHVEL 3 BAYBEE)

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Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #1275 on: December 31, 2010, 09:24:25 PM
I think it's okay as long as it's cheap, like said Rockman 9 & 10. XD



Offline Karasai♪

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Reply #1276 on: December 31, 2010, 09:30:10 PM
Zero doesnt have his Nightmare Zero color.
Rage  O:<

He has a Axl color instead



Offline Rin

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Reply #1277 on: December 31, 2010, 09:41:40 PM
Zero doesnt have his Nightmare Zero color.
Rage  O:<

Ha ha ha... you really expected that he...

Quote
He has a Axl color insteadp
ALL MY [tornado fang]ing RAGE!


Also, regarding the dlc... well, it's not like downloadable characters are a new thing. It's to be expected that they'll probably add shitton of content for DLC.



Offline Ninja Lou

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Reply #1278 on: December 31, 2010, 10:31:47 PM
Not much to do about DLC now. It's just add on content. Some companies do it well (more Mass Effect DLC pls) and some don't ($5 for Yoda &^%$ that). It's all part of gaming now. I just pretend I am back in my PC gaming days where add ons meant I went to the store to buy a new disc to add a few missions to command and conquer. God I feel old saying that.............................


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Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #1279 on: January 01, 2011, 01:36:54 AM
Not much to do about DLC now. It's just add on content. Some companies do it well (more Mass Effect DLC pls) and some don't ($5 for Yoda &^%$ that). It's all part of gaming now. I just pretend I am back in my PC gaming days where add ons meant I went to the store to buy a new disc to add a few missions to command and conquer. God I feel old saying that.............................

All I'm saying is, the power is in people's hands.

When PS3 owners like myself were utterly irate and inconsolable about the DRM issue relating to that Final Fight release from a little while ago, such that people didn't buy the game, Capcom quickly got the hint. It likely will be a VERY, VERY long time before Capcom, or any one else, pulls off [parasitic bomb] quite like that again. Similar DRM episodes have also cropped up (and then shut down) on Ubisoft's end, as well, forcing them to adapt. 

Chances are, if people made enough of a big-stink about the negative aspects of DLC (this DEFINITELY includes retailer/preorder exclusive bullshit DLC), and furthermore, actually stopped condoning such things with their money? The companies would be forced to abide by what their consumer-base demands. But instead, people have practically willingly allowed such a precedent to emerge in the video game industry. If we don't assert ourselves as consumers now to the industry at large? We'll likely continue being raked across the coals in this way.



Offline Ramzal

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Reply #1280 on: January 01, 2011, 06:32:28 AM
All I'm saying is, the power is in people's hands.

When PS3 owners like myself were utterly irate and inconsolable about the DRM issue relating to that Final Fight release from a little while ago, such that people didn't buy the game, Capcom quickly got the hint. It likely will be a VERY, VERY long time before Capcom, or any one else, pulls off [parasitic bomb] quite like that again. Similar DRM episodes have also cropped up (and then shut down) on Ubisoft's end, as well, forcing them to adapt. 

Chances are, if people made enough of a big-stink about the negative aspects of DLC (this DEFINITELY includes retailer/preorder exclusive bullshit DLC), and furthermore, actually stopped condoning such things with their money? The companies would be forced to abide by what their consumer-base demands. But instead, people have practically willingly allowed such a precedent to emerge in the video game industry. If we don't assert ourselves as consumers now to the industry at large? We'll likely continue being raked across the coals in this way.

Can't believe Tim Buckley called this one. http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20100628

I can explain this up, down, and all around. But let me make this simple. Downloadable content is just what it is. Extra content. Content that takes money for people to make, and with that money spent, they need some money coming back to them. As any company offering a service or product should have the right to, by the way. You think this is being raked across coals? Try having a declining business because people can download your work for free, rather than paying for it. But let me put this as easy as possible for you to understand.

A video game is like a wrapped sandwich you buy at the deli. Has meat, cheese, lettuce and hey, even tomato. You enjoy the sandwich just fine until you feel it can use a bit more of a kick. Some mayo or mustard. But, you don't have any of either, so you would have to go to the store and buy some. However, youh have three choices. You can:

1) Go get some mayo, or mustard,  pay for it and enjoy your sandwich with the extra kick.
2) Not buy either because you think your sandwich is just fine without may or mustard. Or
3) Rant, rave and [sonic slicer] about the mayo or mustard not being on the sandwich to begin with and demand to start a revolution in the name of not getting it the way you want it.

Which of the three do you think is a complete waste of time, and makes  one seem like a whiner because they aren't willing to shell out five measly dollars?



Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #1281 on: January 01, 2011, 08:14:00 AM
I can explain this up, down, and all around. But let me make this simple. Downloadable content is just what it is. Extra content. Content that takes money for people to make, and with that money spent, they need some money coming back to them. As any company offering a service or product should have the right to, by the way. You think this is being raked across coals? Try having a declining business because people can download your work for free, rather than paying for it.

And this is my/the consumer's problem how, exactly?

This is basically the same type of ideology that makes it seem that things like DRM are an "ok" thing, because it "protects" the developers from pirates (except it really doesn't...) and also tries to put people who would rather rent/buy secondhand on blast. Well, why should I, as a potential early adopter, have to incur extra costs, or otherwise be treated like a criminal, just so that the companies will be satiated?

No, call this thing for what it is. DLC is nothing more than another scam that could be boiled down to an "early adopters' fee", at best. What really is the biggest problem at the center of this is perhaps the one truth you did speak of: it IS a declining business model. But that's still not the (honest) consumer's problem, though. It's THE INDUSTRY'S. If companies like Capcom and others can't figure out that things like Steam and D2D represent what's in their best interests and their future, then again, that's THEIR problem for sticking with an increasingly obsolete business model, and choosing to side with proponents like Gamestop that abide in it.   


Quote
A video game is like a wrapped sandwich you buy at the deli. Has meat, cheese, lettuce and hey, even tomato. You enjoy the sandwich just fine until you feel it can use a bit more of a kick. Some mayo or mustard. But, you don't have any of either, so you would have to go to the store and buy some. However, youh have three choices. You can:

1) Go get some mayo, or mustard,  pay for it and enjoy your sandwich with the extra kick.
2) Not buy either because you think your sandwich is just fine without may or mustard. Or
3) Rant, rave and [sonic slicer] about the mayo or mustard not being on the sandwich to begin with and demand to start a revolution in the name of not getting it the way you want it.

Which of the three do you think is a complete waste of time, and makes  one seem like a whiner because they aren't willing to shell out five measly dollars?

Except your example doesn't quite work, because it doesn't equate to what is really going on here.

So, going with what you're talking about, let's say you have a favorite deli joint (game company). You've gone to these guys for years, in the same old, familiar neck of the woods, because you enjoy their food, and have actually come to expect certain things when it comes to the quality of service, and their product that you love to consume.

But wait! After a number of years away, you've come back to that same shop. That favorite sandwich that you used to partake in for years on end? Now that deli shop is doing a "different" thing with it. Back in the day, you used to be able to load up your sandwich with whatever your heart may desire on top of the meat of your choice: tomato, lettuce, mayo, mustard, hot sauce, mushrooms, any type of cheese or any combination of above. And it was all under the same price heading for that one sandwich. Not any more, though! Instead, the new pricing model has it so you only get a choice of the meat and lettuce. Any OTHER extra condiments/toppings is a dollar extra. And just to make sure nobody steals anything, the deli shop now assigns certain employees that will WATCH YOU EAT. Sometimes, they'll even reach over, put their grimy fingers in the sandwich you just paid for, just to make sure you didn't take anything extra that wasn't on your receipt. You ask why you're being treated this way, and the employee can only offer a half-assed explanation relating to "rising costs" and "robberies that have occurred since the neighborhood went to hell in a hand basket".

Now, instead of perhaps, I dunno, MOVING THE BUSINESS TO A NEWER AND SAFER VENUE? The shop would rather stay right where it is, and do more to [acid burst] off those old customers that do try to come and holla, with their new business practices. Meanwhile, the robberies STILL happen and their insurance premiums (among other things) continue to rise. For all their bullheaded resolve to stay in the neighborhood "that they helped build~!", what good is it really doing the shop in the end?


And that, in a nutshell, is what describes what's going with the video game industry. The likes of DRM and DLC are not doing anything to address the real problems the industry is facing, and only succeeding in doing more to try the patience of the reliable "Day -1" consumer on the same token.   



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #1282 on: January 01, 2011, 09:13:56 PM
A good sandwich from a respectable restaurant comes with all the condiments I want on it without extra charge.


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Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #1283 on: January 02, 2011, 01:46:52 AM
For the record, I'd like to state that I was the one who first used restaurant type analogies on RPM, so I expect some credit when others use my type of examples on this site, goddammit!  8)

Having said that, ultimately, I think it really depends on how expensive the sandwich (game) is. Essentially that's what anything really boils down to, in the end, when it comes to being a consumer of anything: How Much Are You Willing To Pay?

This is why the rant in that comic Ramzal posted is somewhat flawed, especially about the car analogy. People who buy a car know fully damn well all the expenses that go into it (One would hope). However, #1 Companies, both insurance wise & car company wise, can screw people over in terms of monthly payment agreements and #2 gas prices keep rising and falling to the point where when gas prices once reached $4+ in the NYC area, people finally said [tornado fang] THAT [parasitic bomb], and gas sales significantly dropped due to it, keeping gas prices under $4 since then (at least here in NYC).

It's why I also feel that MM9 & MM10 are examples of how, sometimes, there is nothing wrong with DLC. Why? Because MM9 & MM10 are a goddamn Hamilton each. There are $10 games. Not $50, not even $30. They are $10, and after all the DLC additions, whether you find them pointless or not, add it all together and it amounted to $19. Wow. We've gone up to $20 now. HEAVENS. They are still cheaper than most games that come out nowadays. Hell, they are cheaper than the original cartridges back in the NES days. So, in my view, there's a nice fun gray area in between "principals" and being "[tornado fang]ing cheap!" However, again, I'm willing to pay the extra $9 for the DLC of a Hamilton cheap game. Others are not.

Now, take the XBLA YuGiOh game as another example. They just released their DLC packs, and what they do is charge 160 Points for an individual pack which gets you cards that you can eventually win in the game by dueling in single player mode (I think there are 8-10 packs, I forget). Not new cards, mind you. Just cards you might not have the time to get, or because some people just can't build a basic winning deck. For ME, this DLC would be an absolute waste of money, and I refuse to pay points for cards I will eventually win anyway (One day I'll have that Mirror Force). For some, this seems like a bargain to maybe get some cards to build a decent deck with a coherent theme to it. Again, it's a Hamilton cheap game, but the DLC is not worth MY money.

Also, there is a huge, HUGE difference between "ranting & raving about something" and "not giving them money." Complaining does nothing unless you're willing to stop supporting the thing you're complaining about, and usually to stop supporting something means to stop giving them money. Like Ben said, THE POWER IS YOURS. Wait no, that was Captain Planet. He said the power is in people's hands. The only problem with this, especially when it comes to consumerism, is that you have to get enough people who side with you and stop buying said product. This can go right back to what I said in the Spider-Man topic after my huge rant about OMD/OMiT. After Quesada butchered the character, the only way to send a message that what he did was so atrocious is to stop buying the comic. If sales drop enough, then there is a chance things can change. But you have to have enough people who will stop paying, otherwise it won't change. Like I said some paragraphs ago, it all depends on how much a person is willing to pay!



Offline Ramzal

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Reply #1284 on: January 02, 2011, 02:47:27 AM
Okay. Now that I fully see your points of view. The majority of it is fair and based off the sense of you don't like DLC and feel that it should be included in the game you make. Which is fine. However saying it's a failing system is false due to the profit they make from DLC. If anything, the number of people buying DLC for their games show what the people want. And how much they are willing to spend. Your arguement would be solid if not for that. However all gaming companies can't do what Steam does and make really good and enjoyable games for free. Too many workers need to get paid. And that money doesn't come from a tree that grows. :P It all comes down to gaming companies needing more profit. And for their product and what they give out for DLC (Granted, if it is good and it appeals to me) I am willing to give up $1 for Megaman in MvC3. And honestly, it's kinda stupid to treat DLC as the Anti-Christ because you don't want to give up a dollar or five bucks for more. It's your decision to get it or not, just leave it at that. And rather than trying to rally people to join a cause to defeat the evil companies that sell you work that cost them millions for fifty bucks only, why not just keep on moving...or shell out a few more bucks?

I mean, seriously. It's a dollar. I've paid more for a candy bar than that. And while delicious, it was short lived. Or five bucks. Unless you don't have a job, you can't complain because even if you HAD one, it takes an -hour- to make more than the DLC is worth...with excess. And with all honesty, the only people I tend to know who have a problem with DLC are people who are poor and have no jobs, or pirates. Otherwise, I think it's just complaining about something that makes profit and makes gamers happy. Not you but others. What's next? Complaining that having to buy batteries for a RC card that doesn't have batteries included? :P So, in general just ignore DLC if you don't like it and don't try and start a mob over it. No one is being robbed if people willingly spend money on it. Unless someone is holding a gun to your head and told you to buy the Protoman DLC, no one has a right to complain, really. *Looks at PB* I know full well you did.  >0< (As if your post didn't already make it obvious) :P



Offline Ninja Lou

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Reply #1285 on: January 02, 2011, 02:50:30 AM
Can we create a topic for the DLC talk so that we can stay on topic?


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Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #1286 on: January 02, 2011, 07:56:23 AM
However all gaming companies can't do what Steam does and make really good and enjoyable games for free.

...What are you talking about? Steam, as a digital download service medium, is a solution that makes companies money, for those who are willing to invest in it.

If anything, Steam is the solution that proves that developers can make even MORE money, because they cut out the middlemen that do the most to cut into their profits: Publishers and Brick & Mortar Stores (re: Gamestop). The PC Gaming market is already moving in that direction as it is. Why the Console Gaming market is dragging its feet in this area is beyond me, and yet, they're the main ones crying about "rising costs" the most.

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And with all honesty, the only people I tend to know who have a problem with DLC are people who are poor and have no jobs, or pirates.

You couldn't be more wrong. Certainly for me, and those who think like I do, this has little to do with monetary value, and everything to do with, again, what I've come to expect when I buy a goddamn video game. Especially one that's not a MMO, and therefore, I'm not subscribing to any type of service charge to play in a "persisting" and "ever-changing" game. 

Relating to MvC3, specifically, I have a distinct qualm with DLC for a fighting game. Foregoing everything else relating to competitive play that I'm sure 99% of you don't care enough to hear about, it was bad enough that developers liked to do more to "section off" content, forcing players to build up in-game currency or jump through some other type of logistical hoop, just to be able to get access to content, like extra characters/stages/colors-costumes. (Much more when "locked saves", became the norm.) Now, they've taken that "game" to a whole new level. If it's content already on disc, now you may have to PAY just to unlock what's on WHAT YOU ALREADY PAID FOR. Otherwise, it's stuff that they choose to release after the game has already gone gold and on to the market place, and want extra capital. 

What I find the single most amusing about all of this, however? Back in the day, it was the mainstream crowd who were always the first ones to cry about how fighting game companies like Capcom were too quick to put out a nigh-yearly "Super Turbo EX + @" update of a fighting game a year after the original release, "forcing them to upgrade". Hell, some of that same rhetoric was uttered all over again, just because SF4 got that Super update last year. But for whatever reason, that same crowd has no problem with companies like Capcom running a clear and present DLC game on them here and now...and by the end of the day, those people likely end up paying more through continued DLC than whatever price those expansion/upgrade discs commanded a mere generation ago, for arguably LESS in the way of meaningful content, on top of that! 8D

I mean, you tell me, people who play BB:CS to any degree. Are you really getting your money's worth, paying for those DLC characters that don't even have their own story/arcade/conquest modes? Or for additional colors (when such a thing was a STANDARD FEATURE in Guilty Gear AC+)? Or how about you tell me how you REALLY feel, knowing that all of that content, plus others (re: story modes for the DLChars and more), will be part of the in-game package deal for the PSP port of BB:CSII arriving later this year, for no extra charge?

Can we create a topic for the DLC talk so that we can stay on topic?

But...we are on-topic. After all, MvC3 will be employing a DLC pricing structure of its own, is that not correct?



Offline Satoryu

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Reply #1287 on: January 03, 2011, 02:47:45 AM
Oh calling me out, huh? I feel I've totally got my money's worth with CS.

I think DLC characters in a fighting game is the right move to make. I'd much rather pay a couple bucks per character over time than wait for a hard copy of the plus disc. The balancing, the other big part of the updates, will be free. And by the time all these updates come out and are put on an official hard copy is released, the core release will already be available for cheaper, so the DLC doesn't make the game all that more expensive. 

It helps that CS and SSFIV were sold for cheaper than normal to begin with. If you only bought the three extra characters in CS, you ended up paying about $60 altogether. $40 for CS1 and $20 for CS2. And that's if you got everything when they first came out. A perk of DLC is that PSN and XBL sometimes discount content. CS's DLC is discounted right now, I believe. And Valkenhayn on XBL was sold at a discount to begin with. I don't know if Yun, Yang, and whatever other characters are in SSFIVAE will cost $20 altogether, but it's still better than having to wait until there's a disc with them on it.

Sure CS2 has all that stuff built in. But it will come out 8 months after CS1 came out. And it's on the PSP for likely $30. The people who care about this stuff would've gotten CS1 on day 1 on 360 or PS3 and know better than to play that game on a PSP.

If you bought the additional colors and announcers for CS, then yeah that's more than $60. Yeah, they could be implemented into the physical release for no extra cost. But so what? They're extras that don't impact the gameplay any. They're there if you want them. And you're not entitled to these extras. To use a different analogy, it's like decorations on a car like decals or spinning rims. You don't need them for your car to function, but they're there if you want to express yourself.

You are spoiled by the kindness game companies offered in years past. They include these fun little extras for free, and you now expect the same from games today. The game has changed and you don't like the changes. So you shout and complain and want things to go back to the way they were. Like a bitter kermudgeny old fart.

Oh yeah, and quit reminding us of the leaked list the guy posted on Neogaf. We get it, it's very likely to be true. But what the hell do you care? This is a game you don't even care about. You have nothing to gain if the list is indeed correct. So stop riding that guy's dick and shut up about games you don't even play.


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Reply #1288 on: January 03, 2011, 03:52:46 AM
But...we are on-topic. After all, MvC3 will be employing a DLC pricing structure of its own, is that not correct?

Yes and no. I see you bringing it back to MvsC, but everyone is still mainly taking about the + and - of DLC. Oh and sandwiches.... I get hungry reading this thing. =p I don't mean it shouldn't be talked about and I know it relates to MvsC but I think we can get a great topic going on DLC alone. I know I would enjoy reading it. Plus I can jump in too because I have been around long enough to be one of those people that have bought every version of street fighter across many platforms and talk about how I think DLC made that easier on me.... rather my wallet


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Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #1289 on: January 03, 2011, 06:09:15 AM
You are spoiled by the kindness game companies offered in years past. They include these fun little extras for free, and you now expect the same from games today. The game has changed and you don't like the changes. So you shout and complain and want things to go back to the way they were. Like a bitter kermudgeny old fart.

And you're one of the very sheep-minded sort that allows this to happen. How many more times will you see things like "RE5: Gold" and "Hokuto Musou International", package deals that are released upwards of 6-12 months after the original release (and often includes said original release's DLC as part of the updated package deal, all for less), before you understand that DLC is just a marketing scam directed towards the early adopter "Day 1" crowd?

And I like how you basically tried to equate DLC to auxiliary things that can be outfitted on a car, when in truth, this is more along the lines of how a next generation model of an automobile has lost features that may have been a default feature in the previous one. For example, if you're a fan of a luxury sports car, such as a Lexus LS, you would come to expect certain things being part of the package deal, even before we start talking about adding on more luxury options, am I right? Do you honestly think Lexus buyers would not be the least bit perturbed, if they lost out on some of the creature features they've come to expect, historically?

Imagine if Lexus introduced a 2013 Lexus LS model that sported only 4 gears, when most models on the market today sport 8, at least. And worst yet, getting the 8 gears that you are used to is now an "additional luxury" item that you have to pay extra in order to get. Lexus would get laughed right off the trade show floor, and their devoted customers would (rightfully) feel that Lexus is trying to gyp them of features that they've been used to for years now.

Video games, as well as the consoles they are played on, are just as much of a luxury item. And as a longtime consumer of such luxury items, YES, I am quite disappointed that some developers are trying to short-change us content that, once upon a time (re: up to a generation ago), were default features, along with whatever "extra frills" they want to add on later.

Quote
Oh yeah, and quit reminding us of the leaked list the guy posted on Neogaf. We get it, it's very likely to be true. But what the hell do you care? This is a game you don't even care about. You have nothing to gain if the list is indeed correct. So stop riding that guy's dick and shut up about games you don't even play.

No, how about you stowing all that, Sato.

First of all, in both instances that I posted said list, I spoiler'd it and linked it to its original sources. Meaning, if you didn't want to see it, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO OPEN IT, much less actually comment on it...  8D

Secondly, and what I think is the better question to ask: why the hell do you care that I supposedly don't care? (If anything, my recent posts should do more to suggest that I DO care through my dissent; but that's another matter altogether.)

In any case, last I checked, there was no such rule in the TOS relating to anything along the lines of: "If you're not part of the circle jerk bandwagon, don't post in the topic". Furthermore, last I checked, you're not a mod. Therefore, you have NO authority to tell me what to do whatsoever. So, either get a mod or the admin if I'm supposedly that "out of order", or kindly get to steppin' if you some how can't tolerate a non-trolling, noninflammatory voice of dissent.

Yes and no. I see you bringing it back to MvsC, but everyone is still mainly taking about the + and - of DLC. Oh and sandwiches.... I get hungry reading this thing. =p I don't mean it shouldn't be talked about and I know it relates to MvsC but I think we can get a great topic going on DLC alone. I know I would enjoy reading it. Plus I can jump in too because I have been around long enough to be one of those people that have bought every version of street fighter across many platforms and talk about how I think DLC made that easier on me.... rather my wallet

Well, hey, if you want to see it? Feel free to take the first step, man. If it's just going to be another joke topic like a certain other Sonic-themed thread, though, count me out...  8D



Offline Ninja Lou

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Reply #1290 on: January 03, 2011, 06:12:25 AM
Not a bad idea actually. Will make add a poll also.


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Offline Satoryu

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Reply #1291 on: January 03, 2011, 06:26:42 AM
I am a mod. The RPM Purifier title doesn't exist anymore, but Ares and I still have mod powers.

And as a mod, I will delete any posts concerning the pros and cons of DLC. We have a thread for it now.


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Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #1293 on: January 04, 2011, 01:11:47 AM
I am a mod. The RPM Purifier title doesn't exist anymore, but Ares and I still have mod powers.
I thought there was somethin' fishy goin on. When did the rank go away? I could have sworn it still existed not too long ago...

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #1295 on: January 04, 2011, 08:05:19 AM
I thought there was somethin' fishy goin on. When did the rank go away? I could have sworn it still existed not too long ago...

It created an issue with the Arcade. I'm not exactly sure myself. Ask Vixy.

I forgot to mention Wily II is a mod as well. Sorry, buddy.


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Reply #1296 on: January 04, 2011, 03:52:29 PM
So THAT'S why people I knew were mods suddenly "were not anymore" so to speak... huh. interesting.
Sorry? for what? i was just asking. I never realized that the rank went away.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #1297 on: January 04, 2011, 08:29:03 PM
Sorry? for what?

For forgetting Wily at first.


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Reply #1298 on: January 06, 2011, 03:30:45 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVriTPCVjL4[/youtube]

0v0

"Let's clean up the slums of Metro City!"

And Phoenix. ;3

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXk-6fVFxCc[/youtube]

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Reply #1299 on: January 06, 2011, 07:12:58 PM
Yay Haggar.

Also, god damn, Phoenix's health looked pretty much nonexistant XD


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