Topic: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 (Wii, PS3, 360, iPhone)

[Alice in Entropy]

Flame, how dare you even begin to suggest this game should be anything at all less than stellar? Vidjagaems are serious business! I should stab you in the eye with a ball-point pen for your heresy!

[Flame]

...this coming from the person who gets the Red Ring on his finger whenever 16Bit X9 is mentioned...

yes, granted I raged over 9 and 10, but I got over it and accepted it. Its more the initial shock that gets to me.

I dont approve of capcoms choice, but I wont condemn them. Plus once the retro craze gets stale, they'll do something fresh. (which might be in 1 - 3 more games, depending)

16 bit X9 is a different matter all together in that it IS a bad idea for many reasons. It really wouldnt do anything for Megaman, (other than appease nostalgiafags) whereas Sonic NEEDS the reboot. But even if they made it, I would still play it, because im a fan. Im not going to say FSDASAGDS IM NOT PLAYING THISJGKJGH

Even if a games idea is bad, the game is glitchy or whatever, it is still or can still be fun. Case in point here, Sonic 06. twas a biiiig mess, but still quite fun. Ben here though doesnt want to hear it, and refuses to play games based on nitpicks like physics. (06 had its fair share of issues in that too.)

Actually, reminds me of a certain someone who refuses to play X games over trivial reasons, Mr. Mighty warrior...

[Klavier Gavin]

...this coming from the person who gets the Red Ring on his finger whenever 16Bit X9 is mentioned...

And bitching about Zero's helmet. You can't forget bitching about Zero's helmet!

[Protoman Blues]

16 bit X9 is a different matter all together in that it IS a bad idea for many reasons. It really wouldnt do anything for Megaman, (other than appease nostalgiafags) whereas Sonic NEEDS the reboot. But even if they made it, I would still play it, because im a fan. Im not going to say FSDASAGDS IM NOT PLAYING THISJGKJGH

.....that's even worse though.  That LITERALLY means that you're complaining for absolutely NO reason at all.  Ben has his complaints, and due to said complaints, he's choosing not to play the game.  Whether you agree with his complaints or not, or the fact that he's choosing not to play, he is still taking a stand against something he believes is wrong, whereas other Sonic fans are choosing to give it a chance.  BUT, to [sonic slicer] and whine about 16Bit X9 and THEN go right ahead and play it anyway means you're a sucker and a chump, whose complaints have no merit, no purpose, and no meaning behind them at all.  That's essentially stating that if they were to shovel [parasitic bomb] in your face, you'd complain about it, and yet choose to eat the [parasitic bomb], when you have a choice not too.

Even if a games idea is bad, the game is glitchy or whatever, it is still or can still be fun. Case in point here, Sonic 06. twas a biiiig mess, but still quite fun. Ben here though doesnt want to hear it, and refuses to play games based on nitpicks like physics. (06 had its fair share of issues in that too.)

We've been over this many times before in this topic.  This statement is purely based on the opinion of the person playing the game and nothing more.  Secret Rings made it annoying to move backwards in the game.  I still found the game fun, but I can understand if other's would hate it due to that fact. 

Actually, reminds me of a certain someone who refuses to play X games over trivial reasons, Mr. Mighty warrior...

LoL, if you're referring to X7, I've clearly stated that my reasons for never playing that dust collector are purely stubborn & trivial.  If you're referring to Xtreme 2, I've clearly stated that I 100% hate the control scheme, which is not a trivial matter.  If you're referring to X6, I really just haven't gotten around to it.

[Align]

Also, I think were forgetting that were talking about a freaking VIDEOGAME, not the second coming of Christ.
How the hell did we get so that we rage over a form of childish mindless entertainment like its the end of the world just because of a few imperfections? Jesus, just enjoy it for what it is, not what it "should be". Something to keep your mind off of life for a few moments. A distraction. ENTATAINMENTOO.
Jeez people.  Ben.

Can people please stop whipping this excuse out?
This is all taking place on a forum dedicated to videogames, of course people are going to care deeply about videogames on it. What's more, mostly people just say "No sir, I don't like it" in a matter-of-fact tone when they don't - the sparks start flying when everyone argues whether liking/disliking is justified.

[Klavier Gavin]

.....that's even worse though.  That LITERALLY means that you're complaining for absolutely NO reason at all

Well, it IS Flame. >_>

Secret Rings made it annoying to move backwards in the game. [...] but I can understand if other's would hate it due to that fact.

THOSE GOD DAMN CONTROLS

LoL, if you're referring to X7, I've clearly stated that my reasons for never playing that dust collector are purely stubborn & trivial.  If you're referring to Xtreme 2, I've clearly stated that I 100% hate the control scheme, which is not a trivial matter.

I played like, 10 or so minutes of X7, I just couldn't stand playing it for some odd reason. I hated the controls to Secret Rings, I still played it. Mostly for the music though. >.>

And as for the whole Sonic 4 [parasitic bomb]... I'm just gonna throw this out there, I somewhat don't like the running animation. Very Rush like. >>;

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

I must ask.  How much does Nostalgia get in the way?

Sometimes I wonder if people really do get nostalgic and love game for it, or love a game for what it is.  Especially when graphics are now becoming a directional choice than a nostalgic choice...

[Bag of Magic Food]

Time to break out an old RPM favorite!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze582VGaAkY[/youtube]

Wow, and I thought only Sonic X-treme was supposed to have Super Mario Galaxy physics.

[Zan]

Sonic4 should have been made in the style and resolution of the original Master System Sonic The Hedgehog!

...this coming from the person who gets the Red Ring on his finger whenever 16Bit X9 is mentioned...

Flame didn't complain about a "16-bit" X9, he's complaining about an "X1~3 style" X9. X1~3 style is a crappy style compared to what a 16-bit system can truly do. When using sprites, a game on a "16-bit" system could be done in the exact same style as that of a "32-bit" system. X1~3 style would only serve to make the game look worse than it could be, with little to no gained value in terms of nostalgia and production effort. It also reduces the narrative to being a parody of itself, unable to contain the ideas demanded of a successor to X8.

Sonic by comparison, very much needs a return to simple narrative. Other than Eggman, there should be no talking; there should only the cast expressing their thoughts and emotions by the characteristic movements of their bodies.

If you're referring to Xtreme 2, I've clearly stated that I 100% hate the control scheme, which is not a trivial matter. 

Getting an emulator with gamepad of your own choosing is still beyond you?

[VixyNyan]

Sonic4 should have been made in the style and resolution of the original Master System Sonic The Hedgehog!

♪ Bridge, Scrap Brain & Sky Base Zone Music ♪

[Bag of Magic Food]

Sonic4 should have been made in the style and resolution of the original Master System Sonic The Hedgehog!

Yes, and not like the first Game Gear game port, where Sonic didn't appear to have a nose!

X1~3 style would only serve to make the game look worse than it could be, with little to no gained value in terms of nostalgia and production effort. It also reduces the narrative to being a parody of itself, unable to contain the ideas demanded of a successor to X8.

I think the story of X has already been a parody of itself for a long time, so while I wouldn't mind more X1 style graphics, I think some totally Super-Deformed graphics would work even better!

[Harruhy]

If you're referring to Xtreme 2, I've clearly stated that I 100% hate the control scheme, which is not a trivial matter.

I don't recall the control scheme for Xtreme 2 being bad at all...

[Align]

He means the lack of single-button dashing.

[HokutoNoBen]

Even if a games idea is bad, the game is glitchy or whatever, it is still or can still be fun.

The value of "fun" or "enjoyment" is, much like Blues talks about, is definitely an "in the eye of the beholder" type of thing. So I try to avoid going there, and just argue from the position that comes from just the game itself. How well is it designed, unto itself, as well as compared to its its predecessors and possible competitors?

After all, for example, it can not be denied that MvC2 is one of the most poorly made fighting games ever made. And that's saying a lot, considering that EVERY entrant in the Marvel/Vs. series is pretty busted by default. Even Capcom themselves, in one of the older, JP-only "All About Capcom" source books, basically were a few points shy of admitting that it was a game that they did not spend much time or money for, but still cashed in quite well on because of what should be obvious. Truly, a resounding case example of how people can be more than willing to excuse a game's faults because they liked what they saw.

And so, in the same way, I can't stop you from liking Sonic 06, or Shelly from liking X6 and disagreeing with me about Sunshine. The main thing seems to be that we place value/emphasis on choice facets of what makes a game for us, as well as our gameplay experience the most enjoyable. That difference of opinion is what makes these debates so much fun, after all...! 

[Hypershell]

or Shelly from liking X6

I'm not sure how "in the same way" that is.  My posts praising X6 very frequently compare it to its immediate predecessor, X5, on the standpoints of level design, power-up implementation, and accessibility between the playable characters (and, although a lesser point, boss-Zero AI).  I'd say that falls well within your boundaries of argument that you defined in the first paragraph.

[Protoman Blues]

Flame didn't complain about a "16-bit" X9, he's complaining about an "X1~3 style" X9. X1~3 style is a crappy style compared to what a 16-bit system can truly do. When using sprites, a game on a "16-bit" system could be done in the exact same style as that of a "32-bit" system. X1~3 style would only serve to make the game look worse than it could be, with little to no gained value in terms of nostalgia and production effort. It also reduces the narrative to being a parody of itself, unable to contain the ideas demanded of a successor to X8.

Be that as it may, the point is that he still bitches and complains, but would still play it, making said complaints pointless.  I complain about the fact that I find it insulting that you have to unlock or save-data X in order to play as him in his own series.  Due to my inane and stubborn complaints, I refuse to play it.  In fact, the only way I'm ever playing it is if a hot Canadian girl forces me to play it! 

Getting an emulator with gamepad of your own choosing is still beyond you?

I don't really do much computer gaming, so buying a gamepad simply to play one game is kind of a waste.  I could perhaps use my PS3 controller, but even if I could set up a dash button on my controller, at this point in time I'm incredibly lazy and have many other worthwhile games to play!  So I guess you could say that yes, it is still beyond me! 

[HokutoNoBen]

I'm not sure how "in the same way" that is.  My posts praising X6 very frequently compare it to its immediate predecessor, X5, on the standpoints of level design, power-up implementation, and accessibility between the playable characters (and, although a lesser point, boss-Zero AI).  I'd say that falls well within your boundaries of argument that you defined in the first paragraph.

By that, I was implying that there's still the notion of how the individual may still perceive those games on that type of tip.

For example: overall, I thought the level design in X6, and, among other things, how the game does a lot to rely on items/power-ups was a downer, to the point of being almost "broken" to some degree. On the other hand, you dug it, and thought that such things added worthwhile merits to the game.

Not to dredge up what was already gone into detail in another topic, but again, that's the kind of line of discussion I was talking. In the end, one person's "broken-ness" may be some one else's "feature with merit", or on the fighting game tip, a "hidden feature"!  

[Protoman Blues]

Not to dredge up what was already gone into detail in another topic, but again, that's the kind of line of discussion I was talking. In the end, one person's "broken-ness" may be some one else's "feature with merit", or on the fighting game tip, a "hidden feature"!  

As long as we don't bring up the X5 Boss Theme discussion again, I think we're A-OK!   

[borockman]

... I feel like seeing de javu again.

[Bag of Magic Food]

I complain about the fact that I find it insulting that you have to unlock or save-data X in order to play as him in his own series.

Hey, having the main character changed on you can be a fun surprise!

[Fxeni]

My point of view on this sort of thing is this: If the game is still broken in these ways when it's actually released, then yeah, go right ahead and criticize it for all it's worth. Before it's released it's kind of sketchy to do so, because it could very well be improved by the final release (as unlikely as it may seem in some cases). This chance extends to all companies. Of course, I won't go out and buy the damn thing day 1 either way. I'm just cautious that way.

I'm not touching the other discussions that were mentioned, because I know better than to poke a bee's nest throbbing with the hateful anger of the gods.

[Protoman Blues]

This chance extends to all companies.

Even Ubisoft?   

[HyperSonicEXE]

♪ Bridge, Scrap Brain & Sky Base Zone Music ♪

Funny, I was thinking of the Boss Music!

Catchy!

[Jericho]

Even Ubisoft?   

Oh [tornado fang] you, I was just thinking this.

[Fxeni]

Even Ubisoft?   

Sadly, yes. I know all their problems way in advance though, so I'm not surprised by the bullshittery they pull off in the least