Topic: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 (Wii, PS3, 360, iPhone)

[Kieran]

Kinda like that retarded petition to use the old Sonic 1 art style for the game?

[OBJECTION MAN]

SSF2HD's sound track was a train wreck. OCR has no business doing any official sound track for anything.

[Kieran]

To be fair, I think they'd do alright if the participants were focused and not off in their own little worlds composing whatever the hell they felt like, to the point where the end result is trying to mix every conceivable style of music into one soundtrack.  Project Chaos suffered the same problem.

The main thing that OCR lacks is just plain, simple consistency.

[HyperSonicEXE]

http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01987/

Take Chthonic's newest submission, Farore Lies in Wait, for example.

If you listen to the song, it strays a very decent bit from the source material, and yet the "judges" rail it for being to straightforward.

OCRemix is not the place for the proper treatment and respect of songs composed by professionals, it's mostly for people who want to borrowSTEAL source material, add to it, then say LOOK AT ME AND HOW GREAT I AM.

There are exceptions to that rule like Runaway Five, Chthonic, SnappleMan, etc.

[Kieran]

I do love SnappleMan.

[Mirby]

Wow... OCR Bashing... Never thought I'd see it. I take it that Dave Wise, who is REMIXING A TRACK FOR THE UPCOMING DKC2 ALBUM, is stealing HIS OWN MUSIC, adding to it, and saying that then? Look, if the people who make the source material, the composers and such, don't care what they do to their songs, why should you? The composers give props to OCR all the time, so that should at least show that OCRemixers respect the tracks. You want to hear a track that's awesome and is a completely different style? Here. And I don't listen to the judges; that's basically reading a review. And reviews are just opinions, so everyone has one. They all stink.

To be on-topic, while I think that an old-school sprite would be cool, I don't really care. It's all about the gameplay anyways; as long as it is fun to play (and has rockin' music, naturally... Paging Jun Senoue...) and doesn't look atrocious, I'm happy.

[Acid]

Dunno if posted yet:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177976

Leaked gameplay vid.

[Protoman Blues]

Looks pretty good to me!

[VixyNyan]

I can't wait to play. ^.^

[Gaia]

Looks like a fresh start so far.

[HyperSonicEXE]

I'm concerned.

Why didn't the player just go through that loop? What was up with that?

And how about the next rising part? Sure, you have to have enough momentum to go up, but did the jump physics seem off to anyone else?

Only other gripe I had (and it's mine and mine alone) was the return of the Sonic 1 Special Stage. I hated those. But then, I never really practiced at them or played Sonic 1 with as much intensity as I did S3&K.

So, cautious optimism yet again. Zone layouts seem good! That's a definite plus! Music's kinda strange.

[OBJECTION MAN]

The jumping looked really slow from what I remember of the originals.

[Mirby]

Lessee... Classic Special Stage... sweet. Zone names... Lost Labyrinth Zone (is it a redux of the original Labyrinth Zone?)...
Casino Street Zone (better have slot machines!)... Mad Gear Zone (always need a technology-themed world in Sonic e.g. Scrap Brain, Panic Puppet, etc.)... Splash Hill Zone (start out with grass and water!)
Loading screen is cool... Title cards look nice... Original Green Hill Zone enemies (nice touch!) Was that the Homing Attack? Meh, worked in Rush, they can keep it. Still, the music worked, and I was grinning like a little kid again. I think this just might save Sonic from the decade-long spiral he's been in! YAY!

[KyoKusanagi]

'Sup y'all? The retards of the Sonic fanbase are crapping themselves and nitpicking. (Oh well, it can't be helped since some are still suffering from Sonic '06 syndrome)

I'm concerned.

Why didn't the player just go through that loop? What was up with that?

The player sucks. Watch the video again. He tried to use the homing attack to get up the loop.  

And how about the next rising part? Sure, you have to have enough momentum to go up, but did the jump physics seem off to anyone else?

Yea. Sonic jumps like he is on the moon. Jumping animation needs to speed up when Sonic's speed increases. Even the physics are off. Sonic should be falling off the steep incline, not standing on it and walking in place.

Only other gripe I had (and it's mine and mine alone) was the return of the Sonic 1 Special Stage. I hated those. But then, I never really practiced at them or played Sonic 1 with as much intensity as I did S3&K.

It's bittersweet. The only challenge in S3&K's special stages is the speed increase. I'm glad they chose special stages from Sonic 1. Would've liked to seen halfpipes from 2 though...but I enjoy that they are going back to what made Sonic games good for the casual gamer and challenging for expert players.

Anyone like the title screen? I just don't like how Sonic looks like with his "crap-eating grin."

[Satoryu]

Blue Sphere is the best Special Stage and you know it. Challenge is for pussies.

The whole demo looked a bit slow, actually, not just the jumping. Easily fixed.

I'm kinda not liking the fact the stages are just retreads of the same ol tropes. (They didn't show an ice stage, but I know it's there. And you should know that too if you're any degree of Sonic fan.) It's one thing to call back to the old days, but it's another to flat out copy it. Not that this is new to Sonic. But at least Mario's and Mega Man's reboots new how to keep it fresh. Perhaps they're using familiar stuff in Episode 1 to get our feet wet, and saving the new stuff for Episode 2 and onward?

[HyperSonicEXE]

The player sucks. Watch the video again. He tried to use the homing attack to get up the loop.  

Yea. Sonic jumps like he is on the moon. Jumping animation needs to speed up when Sonic's speed increases. Even the physics are off. Sonic should be falling off the steep incline, not standing on it and walking in place.

It's bittersweet. The only challenge in S3&K's special stages is the speed increase. I'm glad they chose special stages from Sonic 1. Would've liked to seen halfpipes from 2 though...but I enjoy that they are going back to what made Sonic games good for the casual gamer and challenging for expert players.

What would be wrong with that? I guess it depends on when he used the Homing Attack, because in the Adventure games, I'd last-second homing attack for a very decent boost, although in 2D I'd use the bloody spin-dash...

I'm really hoping they've leaked this so they know what to tweak. Sonic needs a different walking animation, and basically what you said.

We more or less had the halfpipes in the Rush games, and I'm glad those are gone. Twitch reflexes and memorization do not a good experience make.
Which is why I liked S3&K's Special Stages more. Yes, you could memorize those too, but there was still an element of skill in the execution while still letting your first run of any stage be conquerable.
Sonic 1's Special Stages are an interesting sort. Memorizing those is much harder since...well...look at it! It's crazy! Totally goofball! And if S3&K's required a little skill, you DEFINITELY needed it for Sonic 1's Special Stages between reversing direction of the spin and when to jump, not to mention emerald approach/gem destruction.
Sonic CD's wouldn't have been so bad if the graphics were better. To this day, it's still hard to judge your jumps. Not to mention the UFO's are freakin' trolls.

But, the vid hasn't turned me away from getting this, so that's good news. Can't say that for Sonic's last games.

Blue Sphere is the best Special Stage and you know it. Challenge is for pussies.

There's a level of challenge I don't mind:
S(3)&K's Last Special Stage: Good challenge.
S2's Last Special Stage: OMGWTFLKJHKJAEJBKJjJFEHWQ+WEGFEJWIFJEBKWJBEJGTF

[HokutoNoBen]

Did I see walking/running into ground-rooted springs, instead of properly JUMPING onto them?

...I don't care if this is alpha or not, that's already a big "No-no" if they were really all about trying to bring back the 16-bit style. That's most definitely Sonic Rush again.

One strike, Sega/Sonic. Keep going, and this too, will be passed over by me.

[Satoryu]

To be honest, I didn't expect a minor complaint like that out of you. And I coulda swore there were walkon springs in the Genesis games, anyway.

[VixyNyan]

Sonic 2 says hi.

[HyperSonicEXE]

To be honest, I didn't expect a minor complaint like that out of you. And I coulda swore there were walkon springs in the Genesis games, anyway.

In pits, yes. And on corners or just before falls, sometimes.

It's stupid to have to stop the player to jump on a spring, though, so I'm more than okay with this change.

Because the only other times it would matter is if:
1) You have a whole field of springs (in which case, still applies, SOOOO...)
2) You needed to jump on an individual spring to reach a certain platform or grab some rings or powerups.

And the latter can be achieved by a second kind of spring that does stop you, or could be done better with a different Gimmick.

[Alice in Entropy]

I love how people are already getting worried that this could be a travesty because of these tiny little details which mean it isn't 100% faithful to the original games.

[Gaia]

Annnddd.. Round 50! Sonic vs The Fans. I seriously need to make a title card each time there's a nitpick in EVERY upcoming Sonic game..  

Well, he still had his grin from the Adventure days, most of the time he was being badass post-Adventure. Sure, the physics ARE flawed in this build.. but doesn't mean they can fix this in time for the summer. The Special Stage I will most likely pass until I get off my lazy ass and try to MAP OUT every stage in Sonic 1. Sure, the enemies I don't mind either, I'd love scrapping those chamelions again. The Homing Attack... I'll just let this slide since this attack was INEVITABLE in Sonic Adventure, plus Seizure Sonic's variant of the Cyflash is taken to account here.

So.. I don't get why does EVERYONE has to be prissy when there's a new Sonic game coming out. I just left '06 alone after the first few stages of each character. Jeez, no wonder there's good fanart of Sonic the Hedgehog.  

I love how people are already getting worried that this could be a travesty because of these tiny little details which mean it isn't 100% faithful to the original games.

Amen.

[TeaOfJay]

I didn't even notice the nitpicks you guys are naming off. That being said the video in question does look like the game runs well it's just that the player sucks donkey balls.

That being said I'm waiting for when Sonic Team royally screws this game like they're screwed so many other Sonic games as of late.

Although I am happy I won't have to be fighting the camera in this game.

[Phi]

classic Sonic


... wait, wut

[Hypershell]

Wow... OCR Bashing... Never thought I'd see it. I take it that Dave Wise, who is REMIXING A TRACK FOR THE UPCOMING DKC2 ALBUM, is stealing HIS OWN MUSIC, adding to it, and saying that then? Look, if the people who make the source material, the composers and such, don't care what they do to their songs, why should you? The composers give props to OCR all the time, so that should at least show that OCRemixers respect the tracks. You want to hear a track that's awesome and is a completely different style? Here. And I don't listen to the judges; that's basically reading a review. And reviews are just opinions, so everyone has one. They all stink.

I agree that criticizing fans for creating derivative works is senseless, since 99% of us do that in some form or another (sprites, drawings, fanfics, whatever).

However, I will say, that regardless of that I don't believe OCR is the most fit to handle "in-game" music.  Most of what I find on their site is crap.  But even the majority of the exceptional tracks, are tracks that only appear exceptional if you listen to them by themselves, and are a poor fit for the gameplay atmosphere of their source material.  Most are not composed with the intent of fitting that atmosphere at all.  Most that are, are deemed to repetitive and uninteresting.  That's the problem.  OCR treats their music as an island unto itself, a composition to be heard alone rather than a contribution to a greater atmosphere.  That approach works when you're downloading MP3s off the internet, but not when you're playing a game.

Kieran's comments above on Project Chaos were spot-on, as well.  Yeah, I like Snappleman too.  But the album as a whole was all over the place, and very few tracks were remotely respectful to their origins.  Considering that the source material was FRIKKIN S3&K, that is not confidence-inspiring for their abilities with Sonic music.

Regardless, since music is something that Sonic Team is actually good at, OCR has no business replacing them.  If OCR wants to continue actual game composition, then while I don't find that particularly exciting I do wish them the best of luck.  But they need to look elsewhere.  Period.