Topic: GENERAL COMIC BOOK THREAD (MANGA NOT ALLOWED)

[Protoman Blues]

GL is right up there. He can be more powerful than Superman, since his power is a matter of will power. However, in the long run Supes is more powerful. There are very very rare times when Superman fights anyone at full strength.

[Pyro]

The main difference is that Superman's powers don't have a 24 hour limit, but his powers do eventually wane when under a red star.

[Protoman Blues]

Plus Kryptonite as well. I thought he was talking toe to toe. It's be an interesting fight, but if Superman goes all out, it'd be hard to stop him.

Speaking of Supes, I read Superman: Earth One today. I thought it was very good.

[Waifu]

Funny you should mention good Superman stories, why do most people say it is almost impossible to come up with good stories of Superman especially with works like "Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?". Is it really difficult to come with good superman stories? I know he is overpowered, he is the first superhero archetype and there is no real challenge to him but still stories like what I had just mentioned, you think there would be other skilled writers who can come with good stories without going darker. Why do people prefer other heroes to Superman?

[Rin]

Funny you should mention good Superman stories, why do most people say it is almost impossible to come up with good stories of Superman especially with works like "Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?". Is it really difficult to come with good superman stories? I know he is overpowered, he is the first superhero archetype and there is no real challenge to him but still stories like what I had just mentioned, you think there would be other skilled writers who can come with good stories without going darker. Why do people prefer other heroes to Superman?

I personally have not read them yet but...
All Stars Superman and Red Son seem to get a lot of positive opinions.

[Protoman Blues]

Funny you should mention good Superman stories, why do most people say it is almost impossible to come up with good stories of Superman especially with works like "Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?". Is it really difficult to come with good superman stories? I know he is overpowered, he is the first superhero archetype and there is no real challenge to him but still stories like what I had just mentioned, you think there would be other skilled writers who can come with good stories without going darker. Why do people prefer other heroes to Superman?

There are plenty of skilled writers who know exactly how to write Superman, and there are a lot of fantastic Superman stories out there.

As for why people prefer other heroes to Superman, it's because....well he's Superman.

[Pyro]

Funny you should mention good Superman stories, why do most people say it is almost impossible to come up with good stories of Superman especially with works like "Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?". Is it really difficult to come with good superman stories? I know he is overpowered, he is the first superhero archetype and there is no real challenge to him but still stories like what I had just mentioned, you think there would be other skilled writers who can come with good stories without going darker. Why do people prefer other heroes to Superman?

My personal opinion is that Superman is far more idealistic than most other heroes and comes off as stiff, but does that mean he's boring? Hardly. Beleieve it or not, I can better relate to Superman than I do Batman or Wonder Woman. People always bring the argument that Batman "earned" his prowess through sheer force of will and intense training, but could he have done it without the wealth? Now THAT is debatable. Let's face is Batman is an aristocrat like Wonder Woman is royalty. Meanwhile, Superman was raised by two Kansas farmers so he has the working/middle-class sensibilities that bring him closer to Earth than his two contemporaries in DC's holy trinity.

That said, Superman and Batman are two different beasts altogether. Supes is a modern take on the legends of Hercules, Achilles, and other heroes of Greek antiquity where they pulled off unbelievable feats and fought entire armies or deadly creatures. Bats is more of a throwback to the pulp era where the Shadow and Doc Savage ruled the roost. Superman is best handled by writers with a science-fiction background, like how Geoff Johns handled Superman after his work of Flash and Green Lantern ("Up, Up and Away" and "Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes" are my top recommendations) while a mystery writer like Greg Rucka is better suited for Batman, the Question, or Checkmate. Grant Morrison seems to be the exception though. His work on "All-Star Superman" and "Batman" is amazing. Then again he's mad as a hatter, so a lot of the crazy [parasitic bomb] he does blows me away.

Frank Miller on the other hand? He basically disgraced the Dark Knight and the Man of Steel with the abhorrent pile of excrement known as the "Dark Knight Returns". I hate that book. Hate hate hate it. All it accomplished was to make Bats a raging psychopath that DESERVED the punch he got from Hal Jordan back in GL: Rebirth. Seriously, Miller made me hate Batman with a burning passion.

[Protoman Blues]

The Batman Universe just got a whole lot more interesting right now, and in my opinion, it's interesting for the better. Morrison's Batman Inc. idea is one of the most genius ideas to come along in a while.

[Solar]

I don't follow comics so I have to ask, what's so genius about it?

[Protoman Blues]

Heh, sorry I neglected this post. Shame on me. Anyway, why this is genius...

[spoiler=Bat-Spoiler Tab]As you may or may not have known, Bruce Wayne has been traveling through time thanks to the Omega Effect of Darkseid's Omega Beams. Well, he's back now, the full details of how will be discovered tomorrow when the 6th issue of Return of Bruce Wayne comes out.

But in Batman & Robin #16, he's back, and at the end of the comic, he holds a press conference and essentially announces that he has been funding Batman all this time, in terms of his crime-fighting technology and such. Furthermore, he announces that the "War against Crime" goes global tonight, and the Wayne Enterprises' newest venture, Batman Inc.

What he's done is essentially turned the idea of Batman into a corporation, a division of Wayne Enterprises that is devoted to fighting crime, and it's a very new take on the character. I find the idea to be absolutely brilliant, because it can open up so many fantastic stories for the character, all around. First and foremost, it's going away from the whole "Batman is a loner dick" motive, which I think is good cause it's been done for a long time now, and it shows the growth of the character of Bruce Wayne. Second, it opens up the possibility of awesome new characters for the Batman mythos & the DCU as a whole, because while Dick Grayson & Damian stay on in Gotham as Batman & Robin, Bruce will be traveling around the world to train people to be Batman-esque crime fighters. Third, it still doesn't reveal Bruce to be Batman, but it definitely sets him up as a potential target from criminals and the govt., even more so that he already was.

So many potential stories can come from this Batman Inc. idea. It's a completely new direction and if done correctly, it can be really good. All in all, I think it's one of the best ideas DC has come up with since the Emotional Spectrum in the Green Lantern U. right now.[/spoiler]

[Waifu]

Heh, sorry I neglected this post. Shame on me. Anyway, why this is genius...

[spoiler=Bat-Spoiler Tab]As you may or may not have known, Bruce Wayne has been traveling through time thanks to the Omega Effect of Darkseid's Omega Beams. Well, he's back now, the full details of how will be discovered tomorrow when the 6th issue of Return of Bruce Wayne comes out.

But in Batman & Robin #16, he's back, and at the end of the comic, he holds a press conference and essentially announces that he has been funding Batman all this time, in terms of his crime-fighting technology and such. Furthermore, he announces that the "War against Crime" goes global tonight, and the Wayne Enterprises' newest venture, Batman Inc.

What he's done is essentially turned the idea of Batman into a corporation, a division of Wayne Enterprises that is devoted to fighting crime, and it's a very new take on the character. I find the idea to be absolutely brilliant, because it can open up so many fantastic stories for the character, all around. First and foremost, it's going away from the whole "Batman is a loner dick" motive, which I think is good cause it's been done for a long time now, and it shows the growth of the character of Bruce Wayne. Second, it opens up the possibility of awesome new characters for the Batman mythos & the DCU as a whole, because while Dick Grayson & Damian stay on in Gotham as Batman & Robin, Bruce will be traveling around the world to train people to be Batman-esque crime fighters. Third, it still doesn't reveal Bruce to be Batman, but it definitely sets him up as a potential target from criminals and the govt., even more so that he already was.

So many potential stories can come from this Batman Inc. idea. It's a completely new direction and if done correctly, it can be really good. All in all, I think it's one of the best ideas DC has come up with since the Emotional Spectrum in the Green Lantern U. right now.[/spoiler]

that sounds like something interesting.

[Protoman Blues]

And you see, this is yet another thing that pissed me off about what's happened to Spider-Man, in terms of him publicly revealing his identity. As MORONICLY STUPID of a decision as it was, there was still the potential for decent stories due to it. Peter actually accepting responsibility, him growing as a character, Aunt May's death, Mary Jane's possible divorce, the city either supporting him or turning on him even more due to it, or other numerous ideas coming from it. Instead, we got OMD & later OMiT, which only goes to show how terrible a writer Quesada is.

[Quickman]

Heh, sorry I neglected this post. Shame on me. Anyway, why this is genius...

[spoiler=Bat-Spoiler Tab]As you may or may not have known, Bruce Wayne has been traveling through time thanks to the Omega Effect of Darkseid's Omega Beams. Well, he's back now, the full details of how will be discovered tomorrow when the 6th issue of Return of Bruce Wayne comes out.

But in Batman & Robin #16, he's back, and at the end of the comic, he holds a press conference and essentially announces that he has been funding Batman all this time, in terms of his crime-fighting technology and such. Furthermore, he announces that the "War against Crime" goes global tonight, and the Wayne Enterprises' newest venture, Batman Inc.

What he's done is essentially turned the idea of Batman into a corporation, a division of Wayne Enterprises that is devoted to fighting crime, and it's a very new take on the character. I find the idea to be absolutely brilliant, because it can open up so many fantastic stories for the character, all around. First and foremost, it's going away from the whole "Batman is a loner dick" motive, which I think is good cause it's been done for a long time now, and it shows the growth of the character of Bruce Wayne. Second, it opens up the possibility of awesome new characters for the Batman mythos & the DCU as a whole, because while Dick Grayson & Damian stay on in Gotham as Batman & Robin, Bruce will be traveling around the world to train people to be Batman-esque crime fighters. Third, it still doesn't reveal Bruce to be Batman, but it definitely sets him up as a potential target from criminals and the govt., even more so that he already was.

So many potential stories can come from this Batman Inc. idea. It's a completely new direction and if done correctly, it can be really good. All in all, I think it's one of the best ideas DC has come up with since the Emotional Spectrum in the Green Lantern U. right now.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=My thoughts]While this is certainly interesting and I am curious to see how it goes, at the same time, I'm not sure if I like it very much.  Bruce has essentially turned himself into a franchise and it seems a bit corny in that respect.  It seems to be borrowing, also, from when Spidey went public with his identity, as a way for DC to also cash in on what Marvel did, as crappy or as great as fans respectively thought that move to be.  It seems like a publisher stunt than it does a serious new direction for Batman. 

I can see how this was discussed in the board room when the idea was passed around.  Some of the editors were getting tired of the current Batman archetype, they wanna drag in more readers, so they suggest to borrow from Marvel.  However, they alter it just so so that it's still a different idea.  Basically, they wanted Batman to be accessible to everyone and they're thus going to make Batman accessible to the whole world by marketing the shadowy loner vigilante that so many of us have grown up with.  They've painted themselves into a corner with killing off, bringing back (via time travel), and substituting Batman so they're gonna have Bruce retire the cowl (which is odd, as Bruce is simply Batman with his mask off, to paraphrase Peter David) and market his identity to others.

I dunno...  This can go two ways and with a good team of writers, it could prolly be pretty darn good.  I may actually become a regular reader again.  But, in the wrong hands, this can also go south really fast and then the editors will need to pull another gimmick outta their ass in order to save Batman from the fryer.[/spoiler]

[Gotham Ranger]

[tornado fang], here I burned myself out that Sunday I read for like.. 14 hours. I've not really touched another comic since. I was just about to dive into Blackest Night, too.

[Protoman Blues]

[spoiler=My thoughts]While this is certainly interesting and I am curious to see how it goes, at the same time, I'm not sure if I like it very much.  Bruce has essentially turned himself into a franchise and it seems a bit corny in that respect.  It seems to be borrowing, also, from when Spidey went public with his identity, as a way for DC to also cash in on what Marvel did, as crappy or as great as fans respectively thought that move to be.  It seems like a publisher stunt than it does a serious new direction for Batman. 

I can see how this was discussed in the board room when the idea was passed around.  Some of the editors were getting tired of the current Batman archetype, they wanna drag in more readers, so they suggest to borrow from Marvel.  However, they alter it just so so that it's still a different idea.  Basically, they wanted Batman to be accessible to everyone and they're thus going to make Batman accessible to the whole world by marketing the shadowy loner vigilante that so many of us have grown up with.  They've painted themselves into a corner with killing off, bringing back (via time travel), and substituting Batman so they're gonna have Bruce retire the cowl (which is odd, as Bruce is simply Batman with his mask off, to paraphrase Peter David) and market his identity to others.

I dunno...  This can go two ways and with a good team of writers, it could prolly be pretty darn good.  I may actually become a regular reader again.  But, in the wrong hands, this can also go south really fast and then the editors will need to pull another gimmick outta their ass in order to save Batman from the fryer.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=To The Spoiler Tab]It's not so much a franchise as much as a corporation, or a division of the already global Wayne Enterprises. LoL, I don't think it's like getting Bat-Fries or Bat-Nuggets (even though that would be deliciously awesome). I thought of the Spidey thing as well, but the main difference is how it was handled, and also because of the hero involved. Spidey unmasking was stupid because he, above all other heroes, knows what happens when psychos find out who you are under the mask. Mind you, Batman knows the danger inherent in it as well, and that's why he doesn't unmask, but rather says that Wayne Enterprises has been funding Batman, which is not only the truth, but also still serves as a distraction away from him actually being Batman. He still keeps the playboy image, but he's been protecting Gotham financially for a while now, so it still makes him high profile.

Morrison is a fan of Silver Age Batman, which you can see in his writing, especially prior R.I.P. Also, Bruce isn't retiring as Batman. He, as Batman, is going to go around the world and train others, as well as some home grown as well. I think Batwoman (a seriously awesome character) is going to be trained by Bruce. But this just has such potential. It's not marketing his identity, as much as his knowledge & skills, which I think is cool, especially considering the fact that he's been away for so long and he might realize that he might not be around forever.

You're right though. It can be good or bad depending on the writing. I'm hoping for the best! [/spoiler]

[Quickman]

[spoiler=To The Spoiler Tab]It's not so much a franchise as much as a corporation, or a division of the already global Wayne Enterprises. LoL, I don't think it's like getting Bat-Fries or Bat-Nuggets (even though that would be deliciously awesome). I thought of the Spidey thing as well, but the main difference is how it was handled, and also because of the hero involved. Spidey unmasking was stupid because he, above all other heroes, knows what happens when psychos find out who you are under the mask. Mind you, Batman knows the danger inherent in it as well, and that's why he doesn't unmask, but rather says that Wayne Enterprises has been funding Batman, which is not only the truth, but also still serves as a distraction away from him actually being Batman. He still keeps the playboy image, but he's been protecting Gotham financially for a while now, so it still makes him high profile.

Morrison is a fan of Silver Age Batman, which you can see in his writing, especially prior R.I.P. Also, Bruce isn't retiring as Batman. He, as Batman, is going to go around the world and train others, as well as some home grown as well. I think Batwoman (a seriously awesome character) is going to be trained by Bruce. But this just has such potential. It's not marketing his identity, as much as his knowledge & skills, which I think is cool, especially considering the fact that he's been away for so long and he might realize that he might not be around forever.

You're right though. It can be good or bad depending on the writing. I'm hoping for the best! [/spoiler]

[spoiler=Holy Spoiler Tab, Batman!]If Grant Morrison takes the reins, then it may be quite awesome. 

So, they're now actually going to subject Batman to the passage of time?  That's quite a bold move for a flagship character...[/spoiler]

[Fxeni]

All the spoiler tabbed stuff makes me think of Kingdom Come.

[Protoman Blues]

Which is its own universe now in the DCU Multiverse.

[Protoman Blues]

..........................................

.........................................

Seriously, I'm [tornado fang]ing speechless.

[Rin]

What the [tornado fang]... is going on that page?
Its small size does not allow me to read.
wat

[Protoman Blues]

Essentially, they are mocking the fanbase that still supports the comic after Quesada spit in their faces. It LITERALLY is them laughing over the whole [tornado fang]ing incident.

[Flame]

Basically, spitting in the fans faces again. And rubbing it in.

[Protoman Blues]

Exactly. They literally KEEP rubbing it in. They won't let people forget.

[Flame]

Not as long as Quesadilla is around, anyway.

[Blackhook]

Wow, just wow.That was tasteless and heartless at the same time...I think that though I don't read comics.