Topic: Sonic and the Black Knight

[Fxeni]

Shadow as a character was decent way back in SA2, back where he had some actual character development (which was later tossed away). Shadow the Hedgehog as a game... well... it wasn't too bad the first time through. I had enough of the game far before the Last Story, though. I put the game down and never touched it since, considering the ridiculousness of what was asked.

Also, Knight of the Wind is pretty kickass.

[Hypershell]

Shadow as a character was decent way back in SA2, back where he had some actual character development (which was later tossed away).

I don't know about that one.  Like Zero in X5, Shadow in SA2 dies an utterly pointless and nonsensical death.  He's INVULNERABLE, can fly, and can teleport at will, yet he "dies" by falling into the atmosphere?  Weak.

If any character development was screwed, it was Gerald's.  He's presented as a mad scientist issuing a death sentence to the entire planet first, THEN two other games are spent going over all his good intentions before he went nuts.  Both disorienting and pointless.

[STM]

Gerald's twist worked for me. His granddaughter got shot and he snapped. Makes perfect sense as something to make him spiral into madness.

As for Shadow's death? Never mind the two are each at half power super forms, that Chaos Control had to really drain Shadow. Sonic's pretty much used to being Super in space. Shadow however isn't. Remember, he's the ULTIMATE life form, not the PERFECT one. He still has flaws.

[Hypershell]

Gerald's twist worked for me. His granddaughter got shot and he snapped. Makes perfect sense as something to make him spiral into madness.

See, but that's SA2, and therein lies the problem with later titles.  It's not the story itself, it's the fact that it's told out of chronology.  SA2 covers his ultimate fate, so who really give's a rat's ass about him when his good-natured self is revisited in later games?

[Fxeni]

Y'know, I always took the SA2 ending as Sonic&Co thinking that he died, but he hadn't really. I mean, honestly, it didn't even look like he died, and I never understood how people got that he did. Maybe I'm just seeing something that others don't, or something.

You want weak? Making him lose his memory again. Now THAT's weak.

[Solar]

I don't know about that one.  Like Zero in X5, Shadow in SA2 dies an utterly pointless and nonsensical death.  He's INVULNERABLE, can fly, and can teleport at will, yet he "dies" by falling into the atmosphere?  Weak.

I always thought that after the final battle, Shadow had fulfilled Maria's last wished and decided to join her, so he chose to not save himself.  

See, but that's SA2, and therein lies the problem with later titles.  It's not the story itself, it's the fact that it's told out of chronology.  SA2 covers his ultimate fate, so who really give's a rat's ass about him when his good-natured self is revisited in later games?

Well, if he didn't die in SA2 then it is not his ultimate fate >.>

Y'know, I always took the SA2 ending as Sonic&Co thinking that he died, but he hadn't really.

Back then, that's what I wanted to believe >.>

I mean, honestly, it didn't even look like he died, and I never understood how people got that he did.

He fell, from space. If for god know what reason you don't turn to ashes by the time you re-enter the planet, then the fall would [tornado fang]ing kill you.

You want weak? Making him lose his memory again. Now THAT's weak.

Completely agreed.

[Fxeni]

He fell, from space. If for god know what reason you don't turn to ashes by the time you re-enter the planet, then the fall would [tornado fang]ing kill you.

Except for the fact that, y'know, he was in his super form. Also, the light as he approached the planet sure as hell made me think of a Chaos Control.

[Solar]

I know, that's why I was hoping he was still alive. However, how do we know he didn't run out of rings while falling? Stupid but entirely possible and logical.

[Satoryu]

Heroes had a boneheaded explaination for how he survived, but i haven't played the game or cared about it since it came out. his death was lame, but his revival was lamer.

[HokutoNoBen]

See, but that's SA2, and therein lies the problem with later titles.  It's not the story itself, it's the fact that it's told out of chronology.  SA2 covers his ultimate fate, so who really give's a rat's ass about him when his good-natured self is revisited in later games?

It was supposed to, y'know, make him a bit more sympathetic a character, however contrived the actual telling of those events ended up being.

Except for the fact that, y'know, he was in his super form. Also, the light as he approached the planet sure as hell made me think of a Chaos Control.

It was supposed to be "open-ended". If Shadow was meant to stay dead, he could have died in that fashion. Or, as history would tell it, it left them enough so that they could bring him back.

I was really hoping that they would have let stay dead. His story was self-contained in SA2, open and shut. I thought that was good enough...

I know, that's why I was hoping he was still alive. However, how do we know he didn't run out of rings while falling? Stupid but entirely possible and logical.

Silly Taiyo...game mechanics/logic != how things work in CG/FMVs!  

[Solar]

No, silly me for trying to look for a logical explanation

Well, change rings to power or something then

[Waifu]

Heroes had a boneheaded explaination for how he survived, but i haven't played the game or cared about it since it came out. his death was lame, but his revival was lamer.

It turned out he was an Android that was created by Dr. Robotnik/Eggman and that Eggman had an army of Shadow robot clones.

It was supposed to, y'know, make him a bit more sympathetic a character, however contrived the actual telling of those events ended up being.

It was supposed to be "open-ended". If Shadow was meant to stay dead, he could have died in that fashion. Or, as history would tell it, it left them enough so that they could bring him back.

Why doesn't Shadow just stay dead then? It would have been a lot more fantastic if he did instead of being revived every game.

I don't know about that one.  Like Zero in X5, Shadow in SA2 dies an utterly pointless and nonsensical death.  He's INVULNERABLE, can fly, and can teleport at will, yet he "dies" by falling into the atmosphere?  Weak.

If any character development was screwed, it was Gerald's.  He's presented as a mad scientist issuing a death sentence to the entire planet first, THEN two other games are spent going over all his good intentions before he went nuts.  Both disorienting and pointless.

Zero should have stayed dead back in X1 or at X5/X6 like he was supposed to but he revived yet again and he he even had his own series.

[HokutoNoBen]

Why doesn't Shadow just stay dead then? It would have been a lot more fantastic if he did instead of being revived every game.

Easy reason? Because Sega saw the fanboy-appealing potential that Shadow had, and wanted to utilize him some more.

Never mind the fact that friggin METAL SONIC was an already established character, who not only served Shadow's basic purpose years before hand, and could have easily been written to do more in that vein.

To me, Shadow was a fairly redundant character from the outset. Even the whole "Ultimate Lifeform" angle was something that Metal Sonic was already doing years before hand. 

Zero should have stayed dead back in X1 or at X5/X6 like he was supposed to but he revived yet again and he he even had his own series.

Zero is different, in the notion that, by all sake and reason, he was closer to the "original concept" that Inafune wanted for a "Rockman X". But Capcom wasn't going to play ball by his rules. So, as a consolation prize, he shoe-horned Zero in there any way, and was willing to just play the waiting game.

[Protoman Blues]

Metal Sonic would have been an awesome cameo in Sonic & The Black Knight.  Hell, they could've made him Deathcalibur Metal to counter Excalibur Sonic.  I definitely would've had the will to Fight the Knight. The Will To Fight the Knight.  THE WILL TO FIGHT! THE! KNIGHT! 

[Hypershell]

Well, if he didn't die in SA2 then it is not his ultimate fate >.>

I was talking about Gerald, not Shadow.

Zero should have stayed dead back in X1 or at X5/X6 like he was supposed to but he revived yet again and he he even had his own series.

Zero was a generic NPC in X1, the only reason anybody cared whether he lived or died was because he had a kickass theme music and caused collateral damage.  Both of these returned in X2, so there's nothing wrong there.

In X5 Zero "died" for a completely nonsensical reason.  A boss explosion, of which he has survived dozens, regardless of how his proximity compares to X's.  Furthermore, X was every bit as "dead" at the end of X5 as Zero was, Light merely took advantage of Zero Space to fix him up.  If he did that, then by what possible stretch of logic WOULDN'T "Zero's father" do the same?  X5, as it is, would have been the worst possible way to end the series.  Fans were just happy to see X and Zero duke it out, and the foreboding of Wily's possible involvement.  But the reality is that X5's story was told incredibly badly.

[Flame]

the only thing its ending would have going for it, was an explanation for X having the Z saber. but in fact, Zero's condition in X5 completely contradicts his state in Z1. artistic difference aside. the later games give his Z1 evival much more sense, and there are MANY times he has given X his saber. every time he loses and cant go on, as a matter of fact.

[Hypershell]

Well, that's actually twice.

Nevertheless, good points.  And the contradictory body conditions are something I've been over so many times that I just don't bother anymore, but they're still just as true.