What makes a good 2-d Platformer ?

[vile mk4]

I was replaying New super Mario bros the other day, and well, not fun. There is nothing obviously wrong with the game ( other than it's linear design) and it made me think about what makes a good 2- plattformer.

Original gameplay ?: Mischief Makers, Super Mario World 2

Quantity of items ?: Super Mario Bros. 3

Tons of levels?, Good bosses ?: Super Mario World

[Da Dood]

We'd have to disagree on the first page already, as I found New Super Mario Bros. unbelievably good.

The best 2D platformer in my opinion is Donkey Kong Country 2, mostly because it's a very balanced game between finding secrets and just finishing levels. I think the trick is to avoid hitting the extremes. DK64 is a boring hunt for secrets, and in SMB3 there's just no reason to play through most levels.

DKC2 levels treat the more concentrated players very well and never punish them for having missed a secret. There's one level at the swamp land where you can go from start to finish only jumping from one enemy to the other. You may actually keep your eyes on the screen borders the whole time to check for secret paths.

It's also the best at hiding those secrets, as explained by David Sirlin in an article I can't find anymore. Basically there's a hierarchy of secrets in every level, from lesser prizes (Banana Coins) to valuable secrets (bonus barrels) and one really huge item that somehow manages to stay hidden somewhere (DK Coin). You always know exactly what you're missing, they're never hidden in a cheap way and there are many clever hints leading to them, usually by elegant banana trails. Personally I think DKC1 sucked at this, since you had to plummet into doom in every pit if you wanted to find bonus rooms, and finding them was the only requirement.

And if you think about it, the gameplay in DKC2 is extremely simple, even more so than Super Mario World for example. Just flawless execution, really.

DKC3 is also very good at this, but level design is way too gimmicky so missing secrets and going back for them is a major pain in the ass. Flipped left and right controls? Bleh!

[Align]

Variety in the basic gameplay (not just the levels), either through many options or one option with serious depth - like it has difficult to master "pro techniques" that you can figure out on your own. Simple hop n bop like in NSMB grows old after a while, and fireflower or star/gigashroom don't affect much. I never could be bothered beating the original SMB...

[Protoman Blues]

and in SMB3 there's just no reason to play through most levels.

...Excuse me?  The reason to play through them is fun.

[Nexus]

Some things that attribute to a good 2D or maybe even 2.5D platformer are:

- Tight, responsive controls
- Great levels that make use of your abilities at hand
- Understandable difficulty curve
- Smooth movement and gameplay
- ... Kinda blank already 

It's all a matter of personal opinion, but then these ARE forums, where people come to chat about opinions and tend to derail the topic in flame wars on each other for differed opinions. 

[Da Dood]

...Excuse me?  The reason to play through them is fun.

They sure are fun, but I don't feel encouraged to beat SMB3 100% any more than just playing the flute and visiting a couple of levels for interesting power-ups. This is already different in SMW, since the game keeps track of your visited levels and lets you go back to clear missed exits. I've always believed that SMW's accessible map system combined with SMB3's power-ups would result in the world's most colossal simultaneous orgasm.

I love SMB3 (it's the only Mario game I bought for the VC), but I don't think it's aged very well in structure.

[Acid]

I thought the stages in SMB3 got better the further you got.

The pipe world was pretty cool.

[Fxeni]

The designs of the levels have to be good. If the levels don't offer anything in the way of fun or challenge, then what's the point of playing? I'm probably part of a minority here, but I didn't like NSMB that much either... something was lacking in it's design for me. I'd have to agree that DKC2 hit a good balance overall, though. Speaking of DKC2, it also helps if the music kicks ass... the more it kicks ass, the less likely you'll mind hearing it again on repeated runs of the levels.

[Protoman Blues]

What makes a good 2-D Platformer?

Samurai Toasters

[vile mk4]

Well, yes, a cool name makes people want to play.

[Acid]

Nintendo does. Uuuuh... used to do.

[RockmanHalo]

Something that sounds like a gimmick but makes the game stand out and kick ass; see Bionic Commando.
BC has got a lot going for it, the levels are cool, the progression is balanced, and it's a lot of fun to play.

[HyperSonicEXE]

Nintendo does. Uuuuh... used to do.

Still do. NSMB was fun, and I'd play SPP over any of the DKC's.

Maybe it's just the Tails fan in me, but I like having multiple characters. Adds for replay value, co-op, maybe even versus (see: MMZ2), etc.

[RockmanHalo]

Still do. NSMB was fun, and I'd play SPP over any of the DKC's.

Maybe it's just the Tails fan in me, but I like having multiple characters. Adds for replay value, co-op, maybe even versus (see: MMZ2), etc.

Rearmed had co-op. It kicked ass.

Every game needs to have Hitler's head explod at the end too.

[HyperSonicEXE]

Every game needs to have Hitler's head explod at the end too.

Just don't give him machine gun arms!

[RockmanHalo]

Just don't give him machine gun arms!

GET THE HECK OUT OF HERE, YOU NERD!

[Protoman Blues]

"What makes a good 2-d Platformer  ?"

Protect Missions.  In fact, Protect Missions just make for an overall fun experience all together.

[HyperSonicEXE]

Y...

You're joking.

Right?

He's joking!

...RIGHT?!

EDIT: Ah, well, that is different from a Third-Person shooter or sRPG Escort Mission.

[Nekomata]

What makes a good 2-d Platformer  ?

Does it's title have Super Mario 3 in it?
Yes -> Good 2D Platformer.
No - > Get Super Mario Bros 3.

[Jericho]

Uh, I think I'mma have to shoot someone in this thread, namely Da Dood. Sorry, but SMB3 IS the 2D Platformer. I'll even go so far as to say that it's the benchmark to judge whether or not your 2D platformer is good or "JESUS CHRIST YESSSS!" good. End of discussion.

If it helps things out any, Donkey Kong Country 2 is ranked 4th on my Favorite Games Ever list and third behind Sonic CD/3+Knuckles on my favorite 2D Platformers list.

[vile mk4]

Does it's title have Super Mario 3 in it?
Yes -> Good 2D Platformer.
No - > Get Super Mario Bros 3.

"What makes a good 2-d Platformer  ?"

Protect Missions.  In fact, Protect Missions just make for an overall fun experience all together.

Like Eek the cat ...?

Personally, i see Super Mario World as a superior SMB3. Added Yoshi, tons of exotic enemies, tons of giant levels, the bosses, the secrets...and Tubular. Men, tubular has to be the most memorable 2d- plattformer level for me. I regret killing the koopa kids, they are by far better adversaries than Pethey Pirañha or whatever is his name and Bowser Jr. Of course SMB3 had more items and interesting power ups, that's my only complain with SMW.

Well, i'm still in my quest of understanding what makes a 2-d plattformer, i found this:
http://mrbossdesign.blogspot.com/2008/10/platformer-primer.html

[TheMogX]

Interactive, challenging and good controls. Thats why ZX is a lot of fun.
Oh yeah and miss chief makers i the **it.

[Da Dood]

Uh, I think I'mma have to shoot someone in this thread, namely Da Dood. Sorry, but SMB3 IS the 2D Platformer.

But uh, when did I say it's a bad game or anything? I absolutely love it. Like I said, it's the only Mario game I bothered to get for the VC so far.

I just don't think its formula aged very well in comparison with more recent platformers. They offer more incentive and have more creative level design. SMB3 as a whole is a freakin' monster. The inventory is something I honestly have no idea why Nintendo still hasn't implemented in 3D.

Don't shoot me!

[ST Jestah]

What makes a good platformer...GOOD PLATFORMING!!  *shoots self*

But seriously, here are some good platformer games that show what a platformer is (at least here are the ones that I played):
-SMB3
-SMWorld
-Mischief Makers (course I can't really say if it truly was a good game since I rented it when i was 10....but I still had so much fun with it...I hope MM(not mega) makes it to the VC)
-DKC series
-GOOD PLATFORMING:the game 
-most of the Megaman Series old and new(minus ZX series, those were decent platformers, for moi anyway)

BTW, why am I the only one who even bothered to mention the Mega/Rockman series in this topic?

[HyperSonicEXE]

BTW, why am I the only one who even bothered to mention the Mega/Rockman series in this topic?

It's more or less a given, here.

I do know what makes one crumble:
-Trial and error gameplay (SMB2JP, IWBTG, etc.)